Opening the car door...offer to let her walk through the door first...helping her with her chair...standing when she comes to the table. These are confusing, some ladies like it some don't. What does the population survey say?
It is nice when the car door is opened or any door for that matter. A chair should always be pulled out for a woman.I believe if you are a true woman you appreciate when a man does this. I do anyways.
"The rules" are confusing....and some perhaps a little antiquated. I think it is just polite to hold a door open for anyone.
If a guy makes TOO much of a show of these little courtesies, I think women (ok, >some,< and American women) might have a tendency not to respect the guy. It's not about wanting "a prick," its about wanting someone who respects himself and doesn't need to act like slavish puppy, which is unattractive.
Anyway, it's always about setting the right tone.
Lita- I some what agree with you. I guess an analogy would explain my position. Last time when a Quixtar representative came to our house for every tricky question he would be sporting a fake smile. And another example would be in a normal tea cup putting 1-3 tea spoons of sugar. I guess if someone does it artificially then it doesn't seem genuine and more ever there is such a thing as too much of a good thing too. I guess my take would be when I least expect it and then get a courtesy like that then it sometimes pleases me a lot but if somebody does it too often and too much of it then yeah it would freak me out too
I don't want him to think he can treat me like one of the guys so yes, he does have to do those small things.
I agree with AE, a true woman would appreciate those gestures from a gentleman.
Each woman is different I think. Some like it when you are sensitive and sensible, others just want you to be a prick. I reckon by all means flirt a little, be funny and have fun but most of all just respect them.
If a man opens the car door for a woman once, she will always expect it to be done everytime. He should have some self-respect. From her teenages, she can do her own work. So, it is not the question of man or woman. Younger ones should serve the elder ones. In this case, the woman will always be younger. She should help the man, whether he comes for dating or eating.
A man with self-respect will always be appreciated by the woman.
I appreciate your view and feel that it is a matter of perception. My father since we were brought up in defense used to tell my younger brother to pull the chair in restaurant's before sitting or open the car door for me and my mom. I think it is in a way showing respect to women (personally I consider it good manners)
Dear countrywoman, as an Indian, I expected your response here. It is really good manners to open the door for your mother or provide a chair. As their son and daughter, you are bound to do them. When a family goes out, we should all respect and protect our women when other people are around. In that sense, it is correct. But a woman expecting her husband to open the door and pull a chair is really not welcome. Did your father do them to your mother... he just advised you to do them.
In short, these things should be obligatory and not mandatory.
I believe it should be mandatory it is always nice to have a gentleman. It is no way condescending, just my opinion.
Gentleman never do these petty things to a woman. Woman should not expect men to do these petty things. It will be better if women are also gentle-women. There should be no difference between man and woman. They are equal, I think.
Veno it isn't petty it is cordial and many of us women in the U.S. also respect and love our husbands and men. There is a difference, if a man wants to be pampered then to should a woman be pampered and cherished. Open a door is out of respect and love for their women and wives. When a man does not open a door etc. it appears to be rude and unchivelrous. That is the problem with so many men and no disrespect intended but chivalry should be alive in well. Have you ever heard the saying "You will get more bees with honey, then with salt?" It is true. I also understand that other cultures can frown upon this but try it and you will be amazed how much more respect you would earn as a man. It isn't a manly thing, it is a mannerly thing.
I think there will be some manly people in America also.. Your love and affection for your husband is commended.... It is commendable as long as you do not speak of divorces and remarriages.
It is not disrespect to women... They have their own hands, then why should she expect men to do it? Are they servants to you?... in the name of manners, women cannot deceive men for long.
Regarding honey-bee-salt story, one bee is enough for me.. I will drive out if another bee comes near.
No divorces or re-marriages , and I realize women do have their own hands, women just love to be pampered. Men are never servants to us, nor are we to them we just take care of each other and give each other respect. I have been married for 13 years and my husband still opens my car door out of love and admiration. I take care of my husband and could not imagine life with out him as we compliment each other.
AE, I agree with everything you've said here, except the part about women loving to be pampered. Maybe I'm a big weirdo, but I hate being pampered. I just want to be equal and respected, and I just want to be polite and have other people be polite to me.
Well if you respect ladies or anybody for that matter... you'll always end up doing the right thing...
Holding a door open definitely. I think this is appropriate for any man, whether you are on a date or not. Helping with the chair is nice, but not always necessary. Standing before a woman sits, or getting back up when she returns... a little old school... depends on the woman. I think the guy should always pay on the first date. After that it depends on the couple.
Good Hub topic! Maybe I'll steal it and you can read it
Countrywoman: The thread is about treatment of women during dating. Not during family picnics.
Even before marrying, no man is bound to do them. If he does, it means, he has just capitulated. Such relationships will not go long.
I am not familiar with before marriage but I guess we are dating after marriage(and I love all the small courtesies whenever I get from my husband). Sir as an elder person please continue showering your best wishes/blessings on us for a long happy married life
Dating after marriage...? that too in America..? You are really an ideal Indian woman ! It is his good manners to do all these things.
Just for me, you do these things to your husband.. He will become a slave for you.
I have already blessed you a month ago in your profile pages. My parents lived 65 years of married life. Mother died on my father's laps... that too in my house, which I consider a boon to me. I wish both of you to live that life....!!!
What is polite for a man on a date: opening the door for a woman. Men are taller and it is easier for a woman to go in first when a man opens the door This isn't a "servant" thing. It's a polite thing. This is the complete opposite in some cultures... but most of the time women walk slightly ahead especially before getting to a door (just what I've noticed) its a sort of protection of the woman by the man. Also it is polite to ask the date "do you want to get an appetizer?" "feel like dessert?" because when the server comes its not polite to answer for the both of you. Plus if you do order one or the other it gives you more time on the date.
I'm a server and I notice a lot of things that annoy me about guys on dates. If the way you're relationship works is that the man orders for the both of you (not my style) but ok. Its just annoying when I ask the woman a question about her meal and she looks at her husband, like she can't speak for herself. Or the husband changes something "she will have the lite dressing" or "make that a diet coke."
When my boyfriend and I go for walks, he always walks on the outside closer to the street. If we stop sharply at a traffic light he does the "soccer mom arm across the chest block" so my body doesn't shoot forward. He just does little things like that to "protect" me
So how to ladies want to be treated on a date?
With respect and admiration.
Like there is no where else in the world you would rather be than with her.
What always drove me nuts when I was a waitress is that same thing--the man expecting that he will speak for the woman. Also, expecting the server to give him the bill. I used to do little experiments--like put the bill in the center of the table. Some men did not like that at all. I remember some even commented on it. Made me think, um, ego-maniac? Reverse power freak low self esteem guy?
My partner always allows me to order first when we go out--which is just a polite thing he does that I like. I CANNOT imagine a man speaking for me or ordering diet food for me. I'd be so insulted.
But then as a server, there were a lot of things about men in general I did really (and still do) like--such as they all pay ONE bill as a joint effort, or somebody just takes the tab. Where as single women often want their bills separate--and once you think about it, how rude and stupid!
Exactly how I feel. Looking forward to your hub version.
Frankly, I do not even really register the open/close door thing. If I am there I can open it, and if he is there he can open it. As long as he doesn't slam it in my face, I am ok.
As for ordering from the menu, that is a big warning sign. If a guy wants to control something as small and simple as that, I think it is time to get out of there.
What I am looking for in a date is something that sets him apart. I remember this one date that I went on, to the theatre for Lion King. We had arrived a bit early, but there were already a lot of people milling around at the entrance, not really sure if it is time to go in yet. There were three large entry doors to the theatre, but people were only waiting outside one of those doors. My date quickly walked us to one of the other doors, opened it for me, and we were on our way. *That* is what I am looking for
I think the "basic door-opening/door holding" thing is just manners, regardless of gender; but if both people get to the door at the same time, it's kind of gentlemanly for the guy to grab to the door. Basic manners is always important for everyone.
Some of "the next level up" stuff (pulling out a chair, opening and closing the car door) are things I think are nice on a more formal date (when people are dressed up and headed somewhere special, like a particularly nice restaurant or other "dressy" occasion. Some things I don't like, even in a formal setting - standing up when the woman gets up to leave, helping with her coat, anything that goes beyond the "moving objects" type of thing that are like doors and chairs.
To me, on a casual date, if the guy is the one with the car keys it makes sense he opens the passenger's door. I, personally, feel a little smothered if he hangs around to close it (although it's a nice gesture, and I do see it as a well mannered and nice thing).
Contrary to what some seem to think here, many women think a polite guy is mature and well bred; and do respect him more than they would some ignorant clod who has no manners (or some guy who is so insecure about being respected by women he's afraid to be too polite).
For some reason, I think the guy should always be the one to open the wine when there isn't a waiter to do it.
Yes, Lisa, but beyond a mature guy with manners and respecting that (a given), there are men who will trip over themselves with these things and put women on a pedestal. I was just having this conversation with my sister(!) Who seems to prefer this approach.
I do not. Honestly. I think in some weird way it is about control on one side or another and I don't like it. That China doll pedestal thing can cause a lot of heart break if the princess were to fall or get pushed off of said pedestal. It would be boring, at least to me.
Anyway, it is always, always about the right tone. CW, I agree with you.
Um, you've gotta watch that door opening crap if your dating a women from Brown U, Stanford, UMass, etc... They are strong, smart, beautiful, respectable, fine, fine, women. I have found [like that with my girl], equal respect and dedication is the way. If I had opened her car door, I'd be liable and subjected to one of Martin Luther Kings Jr. speeches or a an ole'fashion thrashing on the life of Harriet Tubman. Maybe that stuff works on a M.I.L.F.'s.
There is something to be said for a woman with a high I.Q. who likes to open doors for herself. hm, hm, hm! Sexy
"Equal Entitlement", as my girl said. Give that and you've got it made from where I hang.
I love it when a guy shows consideration for me ... its a kindness I will give back no problem includes my friends too,
While a live debate is going on here, whether the man should stand ready to open the doors on the arrival of his heroine, there also occurs an entirely opposite thing on the other side of the globe.... in NW Pakistan!
A few days before, taliban men beat a 17-year old girl suspected of dating with another man. Now, two days ago, the same talibans shoot down a man and a woman for illicit relationships.... where to talk about opening the doors and giving chairs?
Socially, the best religion may be Islam, which prescribes strict restrictions on men and woman in their relationships. They will touch new heights, if they shed political ambitions, which are beyond their capacity. No other religion has political ambitions except Islam. If politics is separated from their religion, their ambition of spreading Islalm globally will come true. Now, they are picking up ignorant Africans and brand them as muslims. Before spreading their religion, they should make those people aware of the religion's policies and practices. Just enrolling ignorant people or just branding them as muslims does not mean spreading their religion. When they wake up from their slumber, they will shed the new religion.
I just did a Post about this i recently went on a date with a guy who was the worst when it came to door opening etc, look its just plan manners, all of us have held a door open for someone at some point in time even if its just leaving the gas station, so dont let a guy tell you he never really learned that or never does it, if he does RUN!! because he does not respect you enough to even be polight!
and if its that bad while dating when we are putting on our best behavior imagine what it would be like when you get into a relationship and the best behavior, there are to many nice gents out there to waste our time on these guys
Dating itself is unnecessary. Then what is wrong if that good guy refused to open the doors? Only women with broken hands can expect men to open the doors. If she is not handicapped, she can herself open it. Expecting something means, she is ready to compromise....
Sister-brother, Father-daughter, mother-son only can do these things mutually. Others should have some self-respect. As far as I can see, Indian women do not expect dating men to do this. They interact on equality basis only. Even if men go to help her, she wont accept it freely... only after fixing him. (One important thing... no one goes for dating in cars in India.)
Different societies have different ways of getting married. And even in India nowadays more and more interaction is taking place between the couple (I mean still social interaction like going out together but may not be everything before marriage).
Just as those who don't understand our system and consider it backward, the same way when we don't understand the other system and say it is "unnecessary" then I personally feel even that is not justified. Let us learn to appreciate and see the good things in other cultures/systems. There are dark areas in every culture and bringing those up wouldn't certainly help us all to unite as one belonging to one big family called humanity. Humanity needs to respect and appreciate each other and then we may have "unity in diversity". Have a great day everyone
P.S: In US sometimes the doors close automatically behind us and the person right behind us may get hurt sometimes if we don't keep the door open.
Women like to be treated like a lady, the feminine one.
I open doors for people when they have heavy things in their hands. In turn people open the door for me when I have heavy things I am carrying. I have noticed most people open the door for those behind them, so they can then grab it. I think it is a polite courtesy.
I guess politeness is a virtue anywhere. Helping an old person to cross the road, offering your seat to elderly folks in public transports and offering your place in the shopping queue if the one behind you has only 2/3 items. I don't see it necessarily as a male/female interaction but more in terms of nice gestures that we need to extend to each other (I once offered my place in a shopping queue in the situation I mentioned earlier and I felt so good at that time).
I have also offered someone a place in line. I think you are right because there are courtesy people in every culture. I have even heard that New Yorkers are very polite, contrary to some of the urban legends people spread after visiting there lol.
Even over here we have folks like Christoph Reilly and VioletSun who stayed in NY for a long time. I find them very courteous and wonderful folks to interact with. It is so true we should try to avoid generalizations as far as possible (even when we have personal experiences which seem contrary)
Personally I do not understand why common courtesy, kindness, and helping others are somehow "unmanly" qualities. I think the whole "macho-man, can't help out around the house" image is very out of style. When I see one of those, I run the other way.
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