National Debt at $13 Trillion as of Today

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   MikeNVposted 13 years ago

   "The U.S. national debt hit $13 trillion today, a stratospheric number with looming implications for every citizen.
   
   With about 309 million people living in the U.S., the average American owns a $42,000 piece of debt — and the 110 million taxpayers owe an even larger chunk per person as the debt grows ever larger."
   
   \\Personal Debt is even higher//
   
   And that's the good news.  Because our USA National Debt is lower as a percentage of GDP than most other 1st world countries.
   
   https://www.cia.gov/library/publication … 6rank.html
   
   Yikes!
   
   And the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped below 10,000 today.
   
   People of the World - ZERO
   Bankers - EVERYTHING!

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   IzzyMposted 13 years ago

   OMG and I thought my debt was bad!

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   Mishaposted 13 years ago

   Keep spending guys, keep spending

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   TheGlassSpiderposted 13 years ago

   Yeah, that makes me feel a little better about my student loan and my Mastercard...at least I'm paying those off bit by bit.
   
   Of course, sometimes it strikes me that none of this money crap is real anymore...that it's all just numbers on someone's computer somewhere and completely meaningless...but I'm sure I just don't know enough to understand all the complexities of this fabulous global economy. LOL

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   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   

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6. 61

   Doug Hughesposted 13 years ago

   I have said it before - I will say it again. We had a MUCH higher debt as a percent of GDP after WWII and we got that under control with the rich paying considerably more then the 15% they pay on capital gains. The US paid DOWN the national debt in a period of high taxes for the rich - in the 2 most prosperous decades (for the middle class) in the nations history - mid 40s to mid 60s.
   
   Since then the plutocrats have sold the myth that taxing the rich will cause the collapse of the economy & the end of the world.  It won't.  It will solve the problem of the deficit if Congress can find the gumption to impose a system of FAIR taxes.

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      Milla Mahnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Why do you like other people money so much? Cause you don't have your own?

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         alternate poetposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Neither of you do - they already have it all - what you need is for them to give a percentage of it back - this is called tax.  The argument they use to keep the money applies the same as to why they should freely invest without return in the US economy, it will make them more money.

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            Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I suspect Milla doesn't know the facts. Over 70% of the wealth  of the USA is owned by only 10% of the population. The bottom 40% own only two-tenths of one percent of the net worth of this country. It's a pathetically small sliver on a pie chart.  It's not an exageration fo say that the people who BUILT this country by sweat and blood were swindled of the benefits of their contribution.

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               LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               This again? I swear this makes up almost half of your posts...
               
               Those 10% of the population may own 70% of the wealth, but they pay more than 70% of the taxes. The bottom 40% may own only 1 percent of the net worth, but they pay none of the taxes. So they do get benefits to enjoy. They may be poor, but they have some of the highest standards of living in the world. Almost half the world — over three billion people — live on less than $2.50 a day. At least 80% of humanity lives on less than $10 a day. I would say that they are not as bad off as they could be.
               
               The people who built this country are not the same people as the bottom 40%. The are only in the sense that they are a continuation of those people. Only some are actually a continuation genetically and even then they are not the same people.
               
               Income disparity is a part of capitalism. It shouldn't matter how much the top people are making, it should only matter how little the bottom people are making and then help to bring level that up.

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                  Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  It shouldn't matter how much the top people are making, it should only matter how little the bottom people are making and then help to bring level that up.
                  
                  
                  Seroiusly, that wont help when the 'top' money earners raise prices that the 'lower' income earners cant afford, yet again.  It all comes down to greed vs non-greed.  Where would you rather be?

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                     LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     If the low income earners can't afford it then that wouldn't be a very good business plan, would it? One of the main reasons prices are even raised are because of things beyond their control, such as government and the laws of supply and demand. And you don't necessarily need to raise prices to make more money, you just need to get out to more people. Why do you think companies are looking at places such as China and India to expand to and sell more goods?
                     
                     Capitalism is about greed and competition. Nearly everyone wants more than they have, capitalism gives them that.

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               Milla Mahnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I can't believe such a gentlemen would ignore a lady, so I guess I should take it as your answer to my question.
               
               Let me see if my small brain can make a sense out of it...
               
               I don't think you place yourself into those 10% that own 70%. Ah, bingo, so obviously you are saying you want other peoples' money cause they have more than you, right?

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                  Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Milla -
                  
                  You seem very concerned with how much I make. Last year it was 48K - I have excellent BCBS and the contract I work under specifies 'no layoffs'. So if your suggestion is that I am trying to get something for myself personally because I am destitute and shiftless - the accusation fails.
                  
                  If I was ignoring your question it was because a lady shouldn't ask how much a gentleman makes.

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                     Milla Mahnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     No, I don't care how much you make - I see now how my question could have been interpreted this way, but this is not what I meant.
                     
                     I am trying to understand why you want other peoples' money, that's it.

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                        Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        One reason you don't understand is because you start with a false premise.  I don't want other peoples' money.
                        
                        I do want to get the deficit under control.
                        
                        I do want social justice.
                        
                        I think both can be acomplished with fair tax policies. The first step is to get voters to understand how UNFAIR the current policies are.  I don't need health care reform - I have a great BCBS plan. But I advocated HCR because everyone should have access as good as I have.
                        
                        I don't anticipate I will EVER need most of the programs I advocate for - but I'm not in this for myself.   It's called patriotism - which is markedly different from authoritarain tendancies in this country - which are wrapped in the flag and marketted as patriotism but the concepts are not kin to the principles of democracy - they harken more to Mussolini than Madison.

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                           Milla Mahnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           Cool, it is much clearer now, thank you for clarifying.
                           
                           I have a follow-up question for you though - had the people whose perceived (by you) interests you are trying to promote appointed you to do this? To the point of depriving other people of their money?

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                              Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              "I am a sect by myself, as far as I know." Thomas Jefferson

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            Milla Mahnoposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I did not say I do. Yet back in those days my mom taught me not to count money in somebody else's pocket and I found that following this advice makes my life way easier.
            
            As for the rest of your post - sorry, it went over my head, I guess I am too silly to understand. May be using words in their dictionary meaning and not redefining them could help?

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      EmpressFelicityposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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7. 61

   Originposted 13 years ago

   Eventually I think we'll somehow buy out a lot of the debt, but I do think we should stop sinking deeper and try to stop it, at least for a while.

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   MikeNVposted 13 years ago

   Sadly the Rich already pay the vast majority of Taxes.  Obama himself paid $1.8 million last year.  How much more should we tax him?
   
   That's the simple fact.
   
   The credit card came along AFTER WWII.  After WWII the United States was a major manufacturer of products.  We are now service based for the most part.
   
   Government Motors now employs more people outside of the country than inside the country.
   
   Times have changed... some people have not caught on to this.  The United States of Today is a vastly different Economy.
   
   The reality is the country is in a position where it can not repay it's debt.  As the World Markets which are ever more in debt collapse, they will serve to drag us down with them. This is why the Dow Jones Industrial Average dropped below 10,000 today.
   
   You see it's hard to EXPORT anything when there are no buyers.
   
   The Debt/Slave Fractional Reserve Banking has destroyed the World's Economies.  Debt has caught up to the World. 
   
   So the question is who is owed the debt?  The answer is ultimately BANKS.  Because Banks can create money from nothing on their balance sheets then loan that money out.  Then Central Banks create money out of nothing. There is no real cost to the banks.  But they do make the loans.  And when you default they take ownership of what you have.  So the Banks win by making money from nothing, and they win again when you default.
   
   That's why Bankers dreamed up the system in the first place.  It's win/win for Bankers.
   
   And just because you say something over and over doesn't make it true even if you want it to be true.
   
   These numbers can't lie.  They are not polls.  They are real... in as much as numbers on computer screens can be "real". But as noted they are in fact just numbers on computer screens.
   
   What really matters is who has Title to what assets and when the big collapse comes will the owners be able to hold on to the Title they claim.

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      Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Mike - You know damn well that their is a 2-tier tax system in America. The Income Tax requires employers withhold anticipated taxes from our paychecks and the exact amount is reconciled after the end of the year. People in the top tier earning over 300K pay 35%.
      
      But the REALLY rich don't get a paycheck - they don't work a job. Their income is in the form of 'capital gains' - which is a catch-all for different forms of investment and paper profits (as opposed to income from working a job). The fat cats who don't work a real job only pay 15% - less than half of what a successful person in a high-income real job pays.
      
      Close the capital gains loopholes and see what that does to the deficit.

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      Ralph Deedsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Fortunately there is plenty of room to raise taxes once there is clear light at the end of the recession tunnel. Taxes last year were the lowest since 1950.
      
      http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/tax … axes_N.htm

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         Doug Hughesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Awwww, Ralph. There you go bringing up facts again. You should listen to conservatives. 
         
         "Rule #1 - You can't raise taxes when times are bad."
         
         "Rule #2 - You can't raise taxes when times are good."
         
         "Rule # 3 - It's imperitive to balance the budget witout violating the previous 2 rules."

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   VENUGOPAL SIVAGNAposted 13 years ago

   It is better not to worry how much debt the govt. owes; instead, each citizen should become patriotic and avoid criticizing the govt. The govt. knows what to do and how much to borrow. If all citizens are faithful to the govt., whoever rules, then all problems will vanish.
   
   We can only criticise and comment; but cant repay the govt. loan.

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      LegendaryHeroposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I hope you're being sarcastic...

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         tobey100posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think he's referring to 'our' government or he's been asleep for the past 40 years.

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      aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      VS, you are right. No point criticizing the Govt.
      It's too late for that. They just happen to be at the current helm.
      
      Doubt if they will be able to fix much. It will probably take aslong to get out, as it took to get in, or longer.
      Sad, VERY sad.

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      Arthur Fontesposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      
      
      So we should all become mindless sheep and do what our government masters tell us to do.  Then all our problems will go away?  Huh! Not the American way!
      
      Faithful to the government like good little serfs?
      
      The people are responsible to pay back the debt.

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    aka-djposted 13 years ago

    I think you left out a word
    "ONLY"
    
    
    Good luck in paying that back.
    
    Curious!
    What's the total nett worth of EVERYTHING you guys own?
    Are you liquid? If not, you are already bankrupt.

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    tobey100posted 13 years ago

    Not to worry.  I'll just write 'em a check.  My check for 13 trillion has got to be just as good as theirs.

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    Ralph Deedsposted 13 years ago

    Here's a sobering comment on the debt/deficit from a very smart guy, David Einhorn.
    
    Are you worried that we are passing our debt on to future generations? Well, you need not worry.
    Enlarge This Image
    Harry Campbell
    
    Before this recession it appeared that absent action, the government’s long-term commitments would become a problem in a few decades. I believe the government response to the recession has created budgetary stress sufficient to bring about the crisis much sooner. Our generation — not our grandchildren’s — will have to deal with the consequences.
    
    Read the full op-ed here:
    
    http://www.nytimes.com/2010/05/27/opini … ef=opinion

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