Israel: Answer Me
Thank you, but I've heard it all day on talk radio...and on NPR, and on the morning news shows, and from the ambassador to Israel, who saw everything wrong with the aide ship and nothing wrong with Israel. And Bebe himself justifying all the killing..as always. Hello--but where is the side of the dead people????
Can't listen any more. It's all propaganda, imo.
"Proposed Joint Resolution No.666 Supporting Israel"---'nuff said.
Supporting Israel. Denouncing the Goldstone report. having a block party to dance and cheer the massacre in Gaza...Gv patterson and Sen Schumer there....
I'm sick .I'm with the OP....
And once again, they will get away with breaking International law....another one.
When can I get off this ride?I can't stand Netenyahu (sp), I have always viewed him as a warmonger. I still believe he was behind Rabin's murder. It was all just too convenient for him.
I haven't seen any anti-semitism. It is possible to criticize Israel and not be anti-semitic. Israeli citizens have also criticized this attack.
There is no hate involved being in international waters and bringing aid to children.
I may not be a Christian but I don't always see the worst in people like you do.That's really funny.
When it's someone or something you want to criticize, you say it's possible to criticize and not hate.
But when Christians criticize and say something's wrong, you say they're full of hatred. Don't deny it; it's been proven time after time on here. And there are also secular people who criticicize some of the things that Christians criticize.
You've shown your own hyprcrisy and anti-Israeli stance by immediately judging both Christians and Israel. You would have us all guilty without a trial. That's exactly what Netanyahu shed light on in that video, he pointed out the hypocrisy of those who are judging Israel over this situation and taking up for the attackers.
It is you who sees the worst in people you choose to judge, and who defends the radical activists and terrorists.I have never said any of what you are talking about. You make me laugh. I have probably said that YOU are full of hatred, not all Christians.
And I still see Netanyahu as a war monger and I always will. I fully supported Rabin...but he was murdered by those who did not want peace.
- Brenda Durhamposted 13 years ago
0Are you feeding a conspiracy theory?
His killer has been prosecuted.Just my personal beliefs...I'm sure the guy who pulled the trigger was punished.
Yes, yes, UW.... fine young men... fine young men.
You always root for the terrorists?
I know chrs does.... but I thought you were smarter than that, UW.
The whole world is going to look like idiots in a lil while.
Slowly... but faster than usual... the truth is starting to leak out. Guess who's going to look like morons... all the left, and meatballs in the world, who supperted the IHH and Free Gaza...
Shall I post some stuff about FREE GAZA...?
Here is the IHH...
They are as fine a young men as these guys.
AP INTERVIEW: Turkish aid group had terror ties
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By ALFRED de MONTESQUIOU, Associated Press Writer Alfred De Montesquiou, Associated Press Writer – Wed Jun 2, 5:51 pm ET
PARIS – The Turkish Islamic charity behind a flotilla of aid ships that was raided by Israeli forces on its way to Gaza had ties to terrorism networks, including a 1999 al-Qaida plot to bomb Los Angeles International Airport, France's former top anti-terrorism judge said Wednesday.
The Istanbul-based Foundation for Human Rights and Freedoms and Humanitarian Relief, known by its Turkish acronym IHH, had "clear, long-standing ties to terrorism and Jihad," former investigating judge Jean-Louis Bruguiere told The Associated Press in a telephone interview.
Bruguiere, who led the French judiciary's counterterrorism unit for nearly two decades before retiring in 2007, didn't indicate whether IHH now has terror ties, but said it did when he investigated it in the late 1990s.
"They were basically helping al-Qaida when (Osama) bin Laden started to want to target U.S. soil," he said.
Some members of an international terrorism cell known as the Fateh Kamel network then worked at the IHH, he said. Kamel, an Algerian-Canadian dual national, had ties to the nascent al-Qaida, Bruguiere said.
Among Kamel's followers was Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian who was arrested in the U.S. state of Washington in December 1999 on his way to bomb Los Angeles International Airport as part of an al-Qaida plot.
"IHH had a role in the organization that led to the plot," Bruguiere said, reiterating sworn testimony he made in a U.S. Federal Court during Ressam's trial. Ressam is serving a 22-year prison sentence.
Bruguiere issued an international warrant for Kamel, Ressam's former mentor, who was extradited from Jordan to France in 1999 and sentenced to eight years in prison on terror-related charges.
IHH vehemently denies ties to radical groups. The group is not among some 45 groups listed as terrorists by the U.S. State Department's Office of the Coordinator for Counterterrorism. Nine people on board the IHH flotilla were killed by Israeli forces on Monday.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20100602/ap_ … error_ties
The IHH's connections to Al-Qaeda
An update on this story. The IHH (the Foundation for Human Rights, Liberties, and Humanitarian Relief) is the org behind the terrorist Gaza flotilla. Here's what the Danish Institute for International Studies has to say about it:
[T]he phenomenon of charitable front groups that provide support to Al-Qaida is by no
means exclusively limited to the Arabian Peninsula. Indeed, elsewhere in the Muslim world,
other such entities have been established with near equal success – as in Turkey, with the socalled
Foundation for Human Rights, Liberties, and Humanitarian Relief (IHH). Turkish
authorities began their own domestic criminal investigation of IHH as early as December
1997, when sources revealed that leaders of IHH were purchasing automatic weapons from
other regional Islamic militant groups.43 IHH’s bureau in Istanbul was thoroughly searched,
and its local officers were arrested. Security forces uncovered an array of disturbing items,
including firearms, explosives, bomb-making instructions, and a “jihad flag.” After analyzing
seized IHH documents, Turkish authorities concluded that “detained members of IHH were
going to fight in Afghanistan, Bosnia, and Chechnya.”44
According to a French intelligence report, the terrorist infiltration of IHH extended to its
http://islamo-nazism.blogspot.com/2010/ … orism.html
So Turkey and France are lying?...Would the US allow its citizens to be attacked and killed by a foreign power and then cover up the facts?
It would – and it has.
On June 8th, 1967, the Israeli military attacked and attempted to sink the USS Liberty as she sailed under a US flag in international waters. Thirty-four US servicemen were killed and 171 injured by a well-coordinated, multi-wave assault which included the use of napalm.
The Israeli military called the attack a “tragic mistake” and then-President Lyndon Johnson agreed it was nothing more. Sailors who were aboard the ship were warned not to disclose the facts of what happened that day under penalty of court martial – or worse.
http://www.brasschecktv.com/page/18.htmlAmerican Reportedly Among Those Killed in Gaza Flotilla Raid
Published June 03, 2010
| NewsCore
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A U.S. citizen of Turkish origin was among the nine people killed when Israeli commandos attacked a Gaza-bound aid flotilla, Anatolia news agency reported Thursday.
Eight Turks were also killed in the attack, Anatolia said, adding that the nationalities of the dead were determined after autopsies at a forensic institute in Istanbul, where the bodies were flown early Thursday.
All the activists were shot dead, the agency said.
Forensic experts found bullet marks on all the bodies and determined that one was shot at close range.
The exact circumstances of the activists' deaths would become clear in a ballistics examination that would take about a month to complete, Anatolia added.
An official from the Turkish Islamic charity that spearheaded the campaign to bust the blockade on Gaza identified the U.S. citizen as 19-year-old Furkan Dogan, originally from the central Turkish town of Kayseri.
Dogan, who held a U.S. passport, had four bullet wounds to the head and one to the chest, Omer Yagmur of the Foundation of Humanitarian Relief (IHH), told Anatolia.
The agency said the bodies were handed over to relatives after the autopsies.
The nine victims were all aboard the Turkish ferry, Mavi Marmara, the lead ship of the aid flotilla, where most of the violence occurred in Monday's pre-dawn raid by Israeli forces.
Israel charges that the passengers on the boat attacked its soldiers, but organizers of the flotilla counter that Israeli forces started firing as soon as they landed.
yes an American is dead... he knew what he was getting into.
http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/06/03 … illa-raid/"organizers of the flotilla counter that Israeli forces started firing as soon as they landed."
That's what everybody who was ON it said.
Israel has killed an American point blank, and you side with them.
Where is your loyalty?
"When did the commandos start shooting and, maybe even more importantly, when did they stop shooting? Was it all in the heat of an active confrontation or were there any shootings after people had already laid down and surrendered completely? That would seem to be a critical question.
Without the full tapes there is no way of knowing. Are there tapes of what happened after the one minute we have seen? Of course there are. There is no reason why they would have stopped taping at that point in time. They have selectively released only the portion of the tape that they think helps their cause.
So, it is incumbent upon Israel to release the full tapes immediately. There is no reason, other than propaganda and spin, not to release the tapes. If they show you were right in using force, then that helps to make your case. I am completely open to that possibility. We shouldn't jump to conclusions. The full tapes might vindicate the IDF entirely. But if the IDF does not release the rest of the tapes, then it seems to be a fair assumption that the tapes do not help their case"--Cenk Uygur
"If nothing else, this assault on decency by the Israeli government was clearly intended to derail the peace talks that President Barack Obama has encouraged. But instead of calling Israel on its savagery, the U.S. is virtually alone in the world in its embarrassingly mild rebuke. The politicians cave so shamelessly because they know that media will be obsequiously tolerant of such immoral equivocation."
--Robert ScheerVeteran Journalist and Editor of Truthdig.com
Posted: June 2, 2010 03:30 AM
"Treat Palestinians Like Jews"
"The last time I wrote about Israel and Gaza, the San Francisco Chronicle suddenly decided to stop running my weekly column. No great hardship -- I have other outlets -- but I would be lying if I denied the apprehension I feel every time I dare write critically about Israel and brace myself for the charge that I am yet another "self-hating Jew." A charge certain to be leveled against even Hedy Epstein, the 85-year-old Holocaust survivor who at last report was attempting to board yet another aid boat, the Rachel Corrie, named after a heroic American protester who was bulldozed to death by Israelis in 2003."
But she "got herself killed"!
I geuss protesting Israel is a crime. Punishable by death.She deliberately put herself in front of the bulldozer, from what the records say.
Umm....yes I'd say it probably IS a crime to "protest Israel"! Because you didn't say protesting some Israeli policies, you said "protest Israel" itself, once again speaking outright hatred in these forums while you accuse others. And people like you and Uninvited Writer and Rachel Corrie are the ones who're sympathetic to terrorism from what you've both said in this thread outright, and THAT my dear is what's criminal.Similar to the guy in China during Tienanmen Square?
I guess most of the world is wrong and all support terrorists.
Why has Turkey cut off ties with Israel?
I wish it on all the defenders of Israel in this case to spend a day trying to live in Gaza and wonder why some of them might be persuaded to accept help from a group that some call terrorists.Dear UW! I am that person who, though didn’t live in Gaza, but 10 years ago worked for some time in the office of a small furniture factory on the border (yes, real border) of Gaza and Israel, the place called Tsomet Erez. Worked with Israelis and Gaza Arabs. We didn’t have any problems. Actually, my Arab co-workers didn’t look starving or in any physical distress. They were not very happy with Arafat, but they talked about it in whisper….. Does it give you any hint? Now this furniture factory is closed because of all the mess.
OK, do you people know that lots of Arab people were killed during local small civil war in Gaza, when Hamas fought against other Palestinians, members of former party of Arafat? Palestinians killing Palestinians (women and children included) - do you know about it? Who cares about it? It is no sensation.
Did you know that Egypt also put blockade on Gaza? You probably did not know this, as mass media doesn’t dwell on this. Who cares? It is no sensation.
Any blockade allows humanitarian aid go through, but it should be checked and if it is humanitarian aid, it is let through. But they don’t care about really helping Gaza (by the way, you of course, didn’t know that Israel itself sends tons and tons of humanitarian help to Gaza, but who cares?)
All what they care about- it is scandal, international scandal against Israel.
This accident with flotilla was no more that provocation. Gaza has land borders with Arab countries and humanitarians could have sent their humanitarian aid through those land borders, without any fuss. Nah, they needed a scandal. Provocation succeeded; there is lots of noise and whistle in the world.
But Israel again showed that you don’t joke with Israel. And whatever feelings you have towards Netanyahu, he is the real man, the real country leader, who does not bow to anyone. He cares about his country, but not about image.It doesn't matter what you say to them Rue... they hate so bad it ozzes out of every word and denial.
It is funny, but as I have said a thousand times... A racist will see race in all issues, an Antisemites are not that far from racists.I agree TM. As a military wife it's difficult for me to condemn the actions of soldiers performed in the line of duty be it misguided or not.
I know, TMMason. And still, I hope that maybe some of them will start seeing the truth....
I personally support *a* blockade (since there has been a demonstrated history of weapons being sent in from the sea), but this has not been a simple blockade to keep weaponry out. This was meant to punish all of Gaza for the rocket attacks on Israel, and probably for voting in Hamas for their government.
From the Economist:
I also agree that it was a deliberate provocation. Why Israel fell for it, hook line and sinker, is anyone's guess. Maybe because Israel isn't exactly using its smarts anymore, something that has been as key to its survival over the past 60+ years as its military power.
What Israelis need to understand is that not all criticism from abroad is meant to bring Israel down. Many of us want Israel to exist, and see its recent behavior as a path to suicide.
There is a time for Israel to use force. Killing off protestors, however disingenuous and annoying they may be, is not acceptable. There were many other ways Israel could have handled this Turkish PR stunt. 63% of your own countrymen wished Israel had intercepted the flotilla differently.Very well said, you are probably right about that.
And, I tried to say that, just because you cricize Israel does not mean you are anti-semetic and want the country to disappear.All but the most defensive should understand that.
I am in America... and to be honest... the polls are not always so trustworthy, Live.
I can honestly say that out of everyone I have spoken with in the days since it has happened most, almost all, supports israel.
Yes, many think maybe it could have been handled differently, but we all also know that when your in the midst of it... it isn't so easy. And also many of us realize that to stop a floatilla of ships without boarding, and not firing on it... or ?
I mean.
I dunno?... Liv.
How many ways are there to stop a floatilla which is carrying people betting you will bow to public pressure, or if not, be crushed under thier martydom.
They were willing to die to piss on that naval blockade. I think once the facts are clearer, the news and others won't be able to twist the polls. And I am positive most of Americans will support Israel.
63% say they wish it was intercepted differently... but how many know what should have been done? How that, should have been pulled off?
I bet many of them couldn't even begin to plan it.Birds of a feather flock together. Everybody I've talked to is critical of Israel, Jews and others. It's pretty clear that the episode on top of the Gaza invasion last year haven't helped Israel's popularity around the world.
The military had to know the following:
- that the ship was sent from a military ally (Turkey, not Iran, Lebanon, or any other assorted enemies)
- that the ship was full of humanitarian supplies (Turkey wouldn't dare be caught shipping weapons)
- there were several ways to subdue a ship intending to break a blockade, only one of which involves dropping commandos from a helicopter
- Jews themselves had tried to immigrate by ship to Israel (well, British Mandate Palestine at the time) and were turned back by the British who had blockaded Jewish immigration. It was a PR disaster for the British and a major coup for the Jews.
Again, Israel is not using its smarts. Its government has become dominated by the recalcitrant and brutish, who are not thinking about the consequences of their actions.
Those who don't learn from history are condemned to repeat it.They, Israel, did know it was coming... they had been told that the "activists" would meet them with passive resistance. That they would stand arm in arm and block the door to the steering room and engine room.
But that is not what Israel got when it showed up.
It has already been reported that Israel and the Aide peeps were in touch and talked about this and they were told if they ran it, they would be boarded ,they agreed.
Good photo op.
Yeah right, thats what they get for trusting muslims, it is called Tiqiyya and kithman.
It is very efective.
You two really ought to go read a few arabic papers and see how they are reporting on your fine young men...
very interesting... they were making wills and praying in preperation for martydom... yes, fine young men indeed... Turkey said they had terrorist ties... thats a fact... so hasn't france... they can whine all the want...
they got what they asked for...
Bruguiere, who led the French judiciary's counterterrorism unit for nearly two decades before retiring in 2007, didn't indicate whether IHH now has terror ties, but said it did when he investigated it in the late 1990s.
"They were basically helping al-Qaida when (Osama) bin Laden started to want to target U.S. soil," he said.
Some members of an international terrorism cell known as the Fateh Kamel network then worked at the IHH, he said. Kamel, an Algerian-Canadian dual national, had ties to the nascent al-Qaida, Bruguiere said.
Among Kamel's followers was Ahmed Ressam, an Algerian who was arrested in the U.S. state of Washington in December 1999 on his way to bomb Los Angeles International Airport as part of an al-Qaida plot.
An update on this story. The IHH (the Foundation for Human Rights, Liberties, and Humanitarian Relief) is the org behind the terrorist Gaza flotilla. Here's what the Danish Institute for International Studies has to say about it:
[T]he phenomenon of charitable front groups that provide support to Al-Qaida is by no
means exclusively limited to the Arabian Peninsula. Indeed, elsewhere in the Muslim world,
other such entities have been established with near equal success – as in Turkey, with the socalled
Foundation for Human Rights, Liberties, and Humanitarian Relief (IHH). Turkish
authorities began their own domestic criminal investigation of IHH as early as December
1997, when sources revealed that leaders of IHH were purchasing automatic weapons from
Fine young men... yes, yes... fine young men. lololAnn Wright....American Hero! Stood up for her beliefs when it was "un-American" to do so!!
"Four cargo ships from Ireland, Greece, Algeria and Turkey, will carry a total of 10,000 tons or 2 million pounds of construction materials for the housing of 50,000 made homeless during the 22 day Israeli attack on Gaza that killed 1440 Palestinians and wounded 5,000."
(what was it....10 Israeli's wounded and 3 dead?)
"Many of us would like to see our boat renamed "The Audacity of Hope" as that is what we want to see from the Obama administration-- courage to challenge the Israeli government on the siege of Gaza. It would be a really brave, bold move as every U.S. presidential administration since the formation of the State of Israeli in 1948 has blindly given free-rein to Israel in whatever actions it wishes to undertake no matter if the actions are a violation of international law. The carte blanche given to Israel by the United States has been dangerous for Israel's national security as well as for the national security of the United States."
Hear Hear!! And I would say it is Israel's defenders who support terror. No ifs ands or buts about it.
We have been bamboozled.When you look at the double-speak, it comes down to 'us-against-them'.
'us' = judeo-christians
'them' = muslims
The propaganda on both sides is tiresome. Thewingnuts would have you think that Israel is undergoing something like the V-2 rocket attacks on London. In all 2008 when rocket attacks were at their peak - a total of 8 Israelis died. I am not suggesting that's OK. But let's keep the attacks and the response in some kind of balance. The reprisals by Israel killed over 1000 and the condemnation over the one-sided war in Gaza was not just from Al Jazerra - the Red Cross reports were damning.
Israel has been punishing Gaza ever since - keeping control of all aid to Gaza and sending it in a trickle. If there is EVER to be peace in the mid-east - this is the wrong way to do it. Israel is breeding terrrorists, not creating moderates in the Gaza.
It's not about being pro-jew or pro-moslem.
It's about being pro-people.
It is all about anti-semitism,... that is what it is about.
Israel's constitution does not speak of annihalating all the Muslims... does it?
No... I didn't think so.I did nnot criticize Israels constitutin.
I criticized their actions.
Of all people, the Jews should know better than to corral a people an an open-air concentration camp. They MUST open up Gaza to unlimited non-military aid or suffer the inevitable final solution when the rest of the world refuses to protect Israel from the enemies they themselves created.
I am not an anti-semite in any way shape or form. I believe in a 2-state solution which includes Israel's right to exist. But Isrel is pursuing policies that require they maintain the iron fist of the oppressor over Gaza. If that's their choice, I will leave Israel alone to suffer the eventual consequences."inevitable final solution"... what a choice of words?...
"when the rest of the world refuses to protect Israel from the enemies they themselves created."
Isn't that the same way the NAZIs saw it, also... and the rest of the anti-semites in Europe at the time?... And gee didn't the world sit back and "not help"... LOL... If I had used terms and words like that I would be a racist anti-semite...
I think the NAZI blood is boiling on left again... I could see the world very easily turn it's back on Israel... for all thier own altruistic hypocrytical antisemite justifications... YUP... the Left never amazes me with it's simmering honesty.... just like Islam... let it speak for itself and it will tell you about it's hate.
Dr Watson esq
User ID: 564353
Russian Federation
12/28/2008 5:06 PM:
"Let us not forget that it was Israel, which in fact created Hamas. According to Zeev Sternell, historian at the Hebrew University of Jerusalem, "Israel thought that it was a smart ploy to push the Islamists against the Palestinian Liberation Organisation (PLO)".
At the end of 1992, there were six hundred mosques in Gaza. Thanks to Israel's intelligence agency Mossad (Israel's Institute for Intelligence and Special Tasks) , the Islamists were allowed to reinforce their presence in the occupied territories. Meanwhile, the members of Fatah (Movement for the National Liberation of Palestine) and the Palestinian Left were subjected to the most brutal form of repression.
Ahmed Yassin (founder of Hamas) was in prison when, the Oslo accords (Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government) were signed in September 1993. The Hamas had rejected Oslo outright. But at that time, 70% of Palestinians had condemned the attacks on Israeli civilians. Yassin did everything in his power to undermine the Oslo accords. Even prior to Prime Minister Rabin's death, he had the support of the Israeli government. The latter was very reluctant to implement the peace agreement.
The Hamas then launched a carefully timed campaign of attacks against civilians, one day before the meeting between Palestinian and Israeli negotiators, regarding the formal recognition of Israel by the National Palestinian Council. These events were largely instrumental in the formation of a Right wing Israeli government following the May 1996 elections.
Quite unexpectedly, Prime Minister Netanyahu ordered Sheik Ahmed Yassin to be released from prison ("on humanitarian grounds") where he was serving a life sentence. Meanwhile, Netanyahu, together with President Bill Clinton, was putting pressure on Arafat to control the Hamas. In fact, Netanyahu knew that he could rely, once more, on the Islamists to sabotage the Oslo accords.
Worse still: after having expelled Yassin to Jordan, Prime Minister Netanyahu allowed him to return to Gaza, where he was welcomed triumphantly as a hero in October 1997.
The budget of The Hamas was said to be greater than that of the Palestinian Authority. These new sources of funding enabled the Islamists to effectively pursue their various charitable activities.
It is estimated that one Palestinian out of three is the recipient of financial aid from the Hamas.
And in this regard, Israel has done nothing to curb the inflow of money into the occupied territories.
The Hamas had built its strength through its various acts of sabotage of the peace process, in a way which was compatible with the interests of the Israeli government. In turn, the latter sought in a number of ways, to prevent the application of the Oslo accords.
In other words, Hamas was fulfilling the functions for which it was originally created: to prevent the creation of a Palestinian State."
In other other words: Hamas is for Israel, by Israel and of Israel.
And Interestingly, someone yesterday said that this attack on the flotilla was done to prevent the re-opening of the Peace Talks that president Obama called for!!! Sabotage by Beebee!!!
No peace.
No concession.
He wants it all.
And in case you don't know about these despicable kind of shenanigans, go read up on Operation Gladio.....the right-wingers know no shame and no mercy. It's all about fulfilling the agenda, imo.
- Deborah Sextonposted 13 years ago0
From http://www.lasthour.com/GOG-MAGOG.htm
Psalm 83 speaks about this conspiracy against God's covenant people, the Jews, and His nation Israel. Verses 2 through 4 describes this evil plot--" For behold, Your enemies make a tumult; And those who hate You have lifted up their head. They have taken crafty counsel against Your people, and consulted together against Your sheltered ones. They have said, "Come, and let us cut them off from being a nation, that the name of Israel may be remembered no more. For they have consulted together with one consent; They form a confederacy against You"
This prophetic Psalm was written by Asaph several thousand years ago, but has yet to be fulfilled to this day. Bible scholars tells us there is absolutely no evidence that such a massive regional conspiracy to destroy Israel ever occurred in ancient times. Though Israel's enemies will enjoy massive numerical superiority, the Bible clearly tells us that by the power of God, tiny Israel--"the apple of His eye"--will utterly devastate the invading armies and her allies in this war, a war that historians of the day may likely call World War III.
When the invading armies move across Israel's borders "to take a spoil," what will the rest of the world do to stop the slaughter? According to Ezekiel Chapter 38:13, they will not even lift a finger beyond shouting empty words. Here is how the prophet describes it--"Sheba, and Dedan, and the merchants of Tarshish, with all the young lions thereof, (representing the trading nations) shall say unto thee, Art thou come to take the spoil? hast thou assembled thy company to take the prey? to carry away silver and gold, to take away cattle and goods, to take great spoil?" No doubt this spirited outcry will be heard in the debating section of the United Nations General Assembly without effect.
Here we see some of the same nations we met earlier in Ezekiel 38--Libya, Ethiopia, and northen peoples of Gog and Magog. So it is apparent that there has been some sort of mutual defense pact between Israel and the nations behind the Antichrist. Even given the seemingly natural events of warfare, God Himself does intervene on Israel's behalf in a mighty way. Apparently, God will cause these vastly numerical Moslem armies to turn their weapons against each other.
We read about this in Ezekiel 39: 1-6--" And you, son of man, prophesy against Gog, and say, 'Thus says the Lord GOD: "Behold, I am against you, O Gog, the prince of Rosh, Meshech, and Tubal; and I will turn you around and lead you on, bringing you up from the far north, and bring you against the mountains of Israel. Then I will knock the bow out of your left hand, and cause the arrows to fall out of your right hand. You shall fall upon the mountains of Israel, you and all your troops and the peoples who are with you; I will give you to birds of prey of every sort and to the beasts of the field to be devoured. You shall fall on the open field; for I have spoken," says the Lord GOD. And I will send fire on Magog and on those who live in security in the coastlands. Then they shall know that I am the LORD."This sort of post does not belong in a political discussion. There is an entire forum for religious quotations.
And yet like everyone elee I was replying to the topic
***********************************************************
It is about Israel so is the topic.
Many atheist reply in the religious forum. How is this different.
This isn't just a political forum. It is about social issues.
Religion is a social issue.
Land isn't the only reason the Hebrews are hated. It is also about their religion.
Deborah Sexton:
For this post to have any validation we would all have to believe the same as you. Agree that the bible and or Torah were the defining authority for all people.
I guess when you can get that to happen you may make some people adhere to the teachings that you wish to express.***************************************************************
No not everyone. Some who do believe. I also believe this, because it seems to be accurate that's why I posted it
I have no desire to get anyone to adhere to anything much less what I believe.
For those who consider Israel to be the legitimate holder of the Middle East....pull your heads out of your rears and actually think..
Can we stop using the Bible and "scriptures" to create and justify our existence/world?
For those who continue to stereotype Muslims and "leftists" to push their own idiotic arguments/agendas...it is your ongoing ignorance that keeps us mired in controversy....
To many "rah rah rah" biased, bigoted cheerleaders and too few critical thinkers......
Keep the bandwagon for the homecoming parade..and keep the Bible to yourselves.... World affairs cannot be managed with either some ridiculous ethno-religious centric pep rally or a Bible Study service....
Move into the real world.....where the actions of people....not cheerleaders or deities, shape the world...
Britain, France, and the United States have blood all over their political hands.
The failure of the "West" to live up to treaties for some while ignoring the atrocities of others not only proves to much of the world the hypocrisy firmly lodged in our political ideologies, but also bolsters armed militant resistance and extremism...********************************************
I'm not using the Torah to justify my existence. My birth does that.
I am far from ignorant.
I am bigoted for seeing Israels side of it, but you can be bigoted against me? Hmmm it may just be me, but that appears like double standards?
Deborah....though aspects of your persona were addressed in my statement, you were by no means a central target.
You are using your birth to justify your existence?
What relevance does your existence have to anything here?
I don't remember any of my comments having to do with this...
Yet....your argumentation is based on Bible verses....which appears to contradict your statements.
In my opinion, it is a serious error to tie your statements like "land isn't the only reason the Hebrews are hated. It is also about their religion" to current issues between Israel and Palestine..
To try to look to Biblical accounts and then point to today is ridiculous, in my opinion.
The conflicts today are based on the drawing of political boundaries....and the erection of new elites...at largely the behest of Western Europe.
The Sykes-Picot Agreement...this is a great place to start..
You won't find this treaty in the Bible....but you will find an article about it on my profile.
Then we can have an actual discussion about this, and also then the original poster's message can also be better understood...I actually have a kind of theory that the Bible will come to pass if enough people read it and believe it....we will make it happen by believing it! just a thought.
But there IS a show that was on The History Channel called The Bible Codes.
Real interesting.
The used a computer and found words coded in there in sequences like a word puzzle, that were like prophecies....things that had come true, and possible things to come.
AND the real cool thing was...there were no computers back when the Bible was written, right?
So how'd they do it?
And even more interesting, there is a line in the Bible that says "God travels the circuits of heaven".....
2001, A Space Odessey. Man+Machine....Oh enough!! But it is all so fascinating.For years country's and people have been smuggling weapons on ships like this. Isreal have been stopping them, searching them. Isreal leaders are not stupid and just waging war unneccesarily.
This is a set up to make Isreal look bad, and all of the media in the world is doing a good job of it.
Get the facts, not what the media is saying!
Isreal is tired of people in the Gaza strip launching missiles and bombs over the border into Isreal. They are trying to police the effort to stop it.
Also, the people who causes most of the trouble are outsider that go into Gaza. Isreal has to keep those that hate them and will do harm to them out of Gaza, or there will be a lot of big trouble. Come on everyone , Isreal is defending itself.- Will Bensonposted 13 years ago0
As with all conflicts, this one won't end with one side proving it is justified and the other accepting that it is at fault. That never happens -- both sides are always sure they are right.
Conflict will end in the middle east when everyone decides they want peace more than their enemy's blood.
My thoughts.Yes, that's absolutely true. Both sides need to realize they're not going to get everything they want, and both sides are under the delusion they will.
I think Golda Meir said that there would be peace when Arabs loved their children more than they hated Israel. And by the same token Israel will have to want peace more than they want to "teach the Palestinians a lesson."
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