Are Teachers Paid Too Much?

1. 58

   bmonoskiposted 13 years ago

   With budgets being tight and homeowners feeling the pinch, the simple question comes up...are teachers overpaid?  Their pay comes directly from taxes and thus a raise for them is a raise in taxes.  Is this justified?

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      psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The question is, do you want minimum wage earners in charge of your kids and their futures?  Treating education like fast food service--with similar results?  I would lose my house before compromising my kid's education.

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         kirstenblogposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Well said! I could not say it any better

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         Evan G Rogersposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         The real question is "why the hell is government in charge of education in the first place?". Obviously government can't manage anything properly: private school teachers ain't suffering!
         
         The truth is easy and completely understandable: it is completely unknown if public school teachers are overpaid or underpaid because the market is not in control of their wages.
         
         If a school does poorly, then everyone says "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE CHILDREN!!!" (a la Reverend Lovejoy's wife in the Simpsons), then, even though the school has FAILED it's customers, IT GETS MORE MONEY!!!
         
         When government is in charge of something, incompetence is rewarded, but when a private organization is in charge of something incompetence is horribly punished!!
         
         Because the impotent government usually gains monopoly privileges over only important industries, everyone seems to think that the government is the only one capable of doing such work. This is nonsense. Instead of saying "we need to privatize this and put good managers in charge", everyone says "Everyone IS the government, and thus EVERYONE is shirking their duty to the children!! We must all pay more! ... because... money = better".
         
         Unfortunately people think that something that is important MUST be controlled by the government: military, courts, schools, roads, etc etc. But they fail to take one more step and say "wait a minute, food and houses aren't owned and controlled by government. In fact, when government intervenes in these industries, things usually get worse: the recent housing bubble, the crazy subsidies and tariffs on food... and even though the government DOESN'T control those things, I get exactly what I want, just about whenever I want it!... maybe governments shouldn't be in charge of schools..."
         
         You want good schools?
         1-Make attendance optional (believe me, one kid who doesn't want to be in school can really wreck academic life for 30+ kids: I've seen it happen);
         2-put REAL managers in charge (people who get punished for sucking and rewarded for being good);
         3-let there be competition (if one school sucks, let there be an alternative);
         4-Perhaps (GASP!!!) we should consider letting kids learn a trade skill and earn money for their family in stead of being forced to go to school (GASP!!!!), after all, some kids just don't CARE about tangents, obtuse angles, Shakespeare, Spanish, or history (a new survey showed that about 1/3rd of Americans can't identify that the bill of rights amend the constitution http://www.lewrockwell.com/blog/lewrw/a … 59375.html -- this isn't because they are dumb, it's because they dont' care!!!!);
         5-and maybe we should run schools like a business -- it's worked just about everywhere else! -- and this would COMPLETELY solve the "evolution vs. Intelligent Design" issue: don't want your chitlins learning about monkeys? Send em to "Izekiel's School O' God!"... see how easy it is to solve these issues if we get rid of government control?
         
         I await the onslaught of anger.

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   2. 85

      rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      have you ever been a teacher?  teachers in no way are overpaid.
      most are underpaid and dip into their own pockets time and again to help their students.

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      leebertteaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Really how would anyone know? The fact is teacher salaries are determined by agreement between the union and the government, at least here in NY that is the case. The interest of the taxpayer isn't even considered nor are the effects of the free market since teachers are forbidden from striking and the goals of government officials are for "harmonious and co-operative" relationship with the union and the teachers.
      
      Since the teacher's union support is important for elected officials as well as their contributions, the politicians have a tendency to serve their own interests in negotiations with the unions and the tax payer is punished as a result. I imagine this is the case for most states, so a true market value for a teacher is skewed. That said, teachers should earn what ever a free market is willing to pay, but that is a sum that may never be known.

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   4. 61

      bschrodtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Going off the original post it references the fact that these salaries are paid from taxes only. Please explain something is it just teacher salaries that come from the taxes?
      
      The places I have lived not only slate these taxes for the teacher's salaries but also for the principles, vice principles and other administrators salaries. Oh, let me not for get books, education materials and other learning tools like computers.  And don't forget maintaince and repair on the building and grounds, the salaries of the ones doing it. This list to run a school con continue for awhile but I think by now you get the jest.

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   5. 62

      pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      teachers should be paid well always..

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   6. 93

      angela_michelleposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Honestly, I think schools keep making their buildings look state-of the art, they should stop spending so much money on the building and using it for more practical means. I get tired of seeing all these buildings getting fancier foyers, a second gymnasium when the first was just fine, and etc, then the newspapers running articles about how the budget is so low. Well, if they had people who made wiser decisions on how the money was spent, then they wouldn't have these problems.

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2. 0

   ralwusposted 13 years ago

   nope and yes

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      Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ditto

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         Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         a haiku of good answers

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            Mishaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            He-he. Hi Patty

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            1. 89

               Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Ho-ho. Hi Misha!

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3. 93

   Alison Grahamposted 13 years ago

   I used to think that teachers had an easy life, all that paid holiday - that is, until my daughter became one.  She is in school by 8 every day, does not leave there til 5.30 and later on days when she is doing after-school clubs.  She works a couple of hours every evening with lesson plans and so on and several hours every weekend.  This last half term when she had a week off, three days were spent on lesson planning and preparing for a workshop she was running for other teachers and two days on report writing. She is in charge of thirty children aged around five, and the responsibilities she has towards them doesn't end with the lessons she teaches, some of them have learning difficulties, behavioural problems and welfare issues.  Personally, I think she should get a raise - but maybe I am biased?!

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   1. 85

      rebekahELLEposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      ditto to everything you wrote. the work does not stop once outside the classroom. the kids are in your mind, sometimes deeply in your heart. for many children, a teacher is their lifeline.

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   2. 59

      pinkboxerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No, Alison, you are not biased. My daughter is also a teacher, and is seriously underpaid. She does not belong to a union. What is a teacher really worth? Ask my daughter at the end of the day after she has worn six different hats including       " teacher ". Education and learning begin at home. For some strange reason, many parents have turned over the total responsibility for their children to educators within the schools. Let teachers teach. Pay them based on merit and pay them well.

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4. 82

   manlypoetrymanposted 13 years ago

   I hope your kidding...right? Have you ever spent a whole day with 23 plus rascals! They ain't paid nearly enough...God Bless 'Em!

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5. 59

   optimus grimlockposted 13 years ago

   their underpaid drasticly not over.

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6. 0

   Precious Williamsposted 13 years ago

   Teaching is like every other profession there are good and bad and therefore some of them are overpaid and some underpaid.  Who is to decide what is really fair? I have been a teacher in the past and you have to do far more than you're ever paid for, but that is true of so many others.

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7. 70

   Cagsilposted 13 years ago

   The reality of what teachers are paid can be and are set according to the income ratio of the students attending the school and/or college.
   
   The problem is when some of the teachers think themselves more important than they are in reality. These people screw up budgets and insert their own ego into their teaching, instead of doing their job properly.
   
   Just a thought.

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      raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Oh course teachers never have to deal with children and parents that are afflicted with any of the above short comings.  Or do they?

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         Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Usually you make sense, but what you mention is irrelevant to what I said. So, I don't see what you said to make sense.
         
         The children they deal with is irrelevant. They are teachers, they have students to teach. If the child cannot learn, then they apparently have no reason to be in the classroom and should be placed in a special learning class.
         
         The biggest problem is in identifying the children who are slower than others or have other problems.
         
         Bottomline is some teachers are overpaid and some are unpaid, just as it has been stated. I was making reference to those who are overpaid and how funds to schools and teachers in public schools are paid.

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            raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            I agree with you that there are "bad" teachers as well as good teachers.  Often the children that have special learning needs are placed in separate classrooms (at least for part of the day) sometimes not - but as there are bad teachers and good teachers so too are there bad parents and good parents and their offspring (who more often than not have issues as a result of poor parenting) these people all end up in one pot - the classroom.  It makes for a complex stew - more complex than just categorizing teachers into good or bad.  Genuinely bad teachers in any other industry or walk of life would be shown the door - however it appears to me that a teacher has to act in a downright criminal manner before that happens.  Bad teachers are a discredit to a profession where the majority of those involved are doing so out of the love of it and definitely not for the money.  The majority of teachers are extremely dedicated individuals and not only are they underpaid they are undervalued. 
            
            As for budgets - administrators and elected boards determine the budgets.  That being said a genuinely bad teacher is not worth a dime and so yes they screw up the budget in that they take up the position and the salary away from having an effective and dedicated teacher in the classroom.
            
            What I was saying in my post is that there are bad teachers, bad parents, students who are there because our systems are mandatory rather than wanting to learn of their own volition.  Some teachers that get labeled "bad" are not bad they are however, often working in bad circumstances!
            
            Hope that clears it up some what.

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      2. 0

         ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Surely a teachers job is to offer an education to children, not to bemoan or judge them on their varied personalities or characteristics? These are children, children are often very different.
         
         Those who begrudge working with children should not be working with children, it is a choice that you make. Most teachers that I know have a passion for children. They should not bear the brunt of your discontent, they are always the innocent ones.
         
         I had a school teacher tell my father that I would achieve nothing in my life, at the age of 11, and I now have a first class degree and will shortly be purchasing my own home. The likelyhood is that I will achieve a lot more in life than that teacher and I will, undoubtedly, make sure that he is aware of that should I meet him in the street.
         
         Was that teacher worth his money? He wasn't paid to speculate my future, he was a teacher not a fortune teller, he was paid to provide me with a service for one year of my life. My next teacher completely changed my outlook on life and education. For me, I think that she was worth her weight in gold.

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8. 76

   raisingmeposted 13 years ago

   Say the average class size is between 25 - 28 students and say for the sake of argument that 10 sets of parents produced those 25 - 28 children.  These same 10 parents hire a babysitter at, let's say $4.00/hr. and go out for a 6 hour stretch.  Collectively they are paying $40.00 an hour for 6 hours = $240.00 = $1450/week.  40 weeks in a school year = $58,000.00 per year
   
   Average Teacher Salary in the United States = $50,590.00
   
   Babysitter qualifications - must be over 12 years of age
   
   Teacher - 5 years post secondary education requiring payment of an average tuition of 23,712.00 per year
   
   Teacher's educate, coach, inspire, volunteer, counsel, clean up barf, console, mediate, plan classroom activities and outings, mark, test, review, supervise, care, take work home with them, produce report cards, attend classes and seminars to keep themselves current with course materials and education curriculum and strategies
   
   Uh....NO!

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9. 56

   leebertteaposted 13 years ago

   To be fair, how many people will say they are over paid? Ask anyone in whatever profession they work if they think they get paid too much for what they do and I doubt you'll find a single person to admit to that!
   
   Ultimately what we get paid depends on two things, what we are willing to accept and what an employer is willing to offer. If I know another employer is willing to give me more than I'm getting now, then I will change employers. Teachers aren't any different. They can seek employment with other schools, districts, or even enter the private sector. Many choose to stay in the teaching profession because the benefits are better, much better than they could ever get in the private sector. I'm willing to bet school districts could get teachers for much lower benefits and pay packages if they were allowed to negotiate in a free and open market for them.

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10. 0

    ryankettposted 13 years ago

    Are teachers paid too much?
    
    I would like to judge this on an individual basis. Some teachers I am sure are overpaid. Other teachers I am sure are underpaid.
    
    Out of interest, how much is a teacher paid? Does this not vary depending on grade, state, etc?
    
    Do you even know how much a teacher is paid? Or are you assuming that a teacher is overpaid without knowing how much they earn?
    
    Should a teacher in central New York City be paid more than a teacher in rural Northern Florida? I know the difference in living costs between the two, I would expect a whole lot more money in NYC than in FL.
    
    Are you talking about primary school teachers (thats really young kids in UK talk, or 'English'), or secondary school teachers? (thats high school i guess in the US).
    
    Your question is so vast that it is impossible for me to even comprehend what it is that you are asking, yet alone try and provide an honest answer based on my personal opinion.

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       raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       read post above yours - average annual salary is there

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          ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Same answer applies though. If I earnt the average US teaching salary in Florida I would be wealthy. If I earnt the average US teaching salary in LA, I would be relatively poor.
          
          To judge this on a national figure is ridiculous. A bit of research and I have ascertained that the average salary of a teacher in Florida is $43302 whilst the average salary of a teacher in California is $59825. The average salary of a teacher in Nevada is $44426.
          
          Who is wealthier? In terms of disposable income? I would hazard a guess at teachers in Florida. How do teachers in LA pay a mortgage on a family home? How do teachers in Nevada pay their water rates?
          
          A family of two teachers in Florida with no little mouths to feed, however, could effectively save enough money in 3 or 4 years to buy a family home outright. Since I have visited the property that my friend recently purchased in a nice part of Florida, for $95000, with four bedrooms, an acre of land, and a swimming pool..... I would say that a teacher in Florida would be able to achieve a much better standard of living than a teacher in most of developed California.
          
          In order to make a judgement on whether an individual teacher is overpaid I would need to know the cost of living in their area, the average local salary, the education attainment levels in their community.
          
          Giving a yes or no would be a sweeping generalisation based on very little but ignorance.

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             raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Where ever in North America their education is a minimum of 4 - 5 years at $20,000 or better per year.  A masters is another 2 years.  If a babysitter was being paid $4.00 an hour for every two children from a single family a classroom of 25 - 30 students would equal about 10 sets of parents paying $4.00/hr each = $40.00 hour out of their collective pockets.  There is a vast difference between a babysitter and a teacher.  Which one would cost more?????

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                ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Nobody in their right mind would leave their child with one babysitter who is looking after 25 kids.

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                   raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   That is not what I said - I said 25 children divided into 10 families = 10 sets of parents each paying $4.00/hr.  They don't even have to all be going out at the same time or to the same place or even know each other - I am just making a point about cost.  If these 10 parents left their children with a babysitter for 6 hours (doesn't even have to be all at one 6 hour stint - just a total of 6 hours) it would cost $40.00 an hour to have them babysat.  Depending on where one lives and the education level and years of service of the teacher the cost per hour for the teacher is far less than it would cost to have these children babysat by 10 different babysitters at $4.00 an hour!

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                      ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      So you are effectively saying that parents should not begrudge the public costs of their childrens education? That is not the topic of the thread. The thread topic is "Are teachers paid too much", and my answer is effectively "Depends how much they earn and where they live". I don't see anybody on this thread bemoaning the effective cost per person on state funded educational services.

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                         raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         I am saying that paid too much is based on the value of a service or a product.  Most shoppers do price comparisons when determine whether too much is being asked for said service or product.  Babysitting is a service, teaching is a service - it costs more for 10 parents to purchase babysitting services as opposed to what it costs them for a teacher's services.  Where do you get more bang for your buck - teachers.  Are they being paid too much - No.  That is the topic of this thread.  You can't discern the value of something without making comparisons.  Otherwise the teachers are being paid too much or too little has no reference point....compared to a fireman, compared to a bank teller, compared to a CEO - what is their level of responsibility, what are they expected to do, what are they expected to produce, all that is taken into consideration by any private employer when determining what an employee is worth or not worth to them in terms of dollars.  When you weigh in all the factors the answer to the question are teachers paid too much? has to be NO!  The truth is society cannot afford to pay a good teacher what she or he is worth to society and its children!

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                         1. 0

                            ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            I will say though that your cost of education seems incredibly high. Since my entire 3 year degree course only cost me $15000. The postgrad stuff required to become a teacher following a degree is free for those who subsequently work as a teacher for a certain period of time.
                            
                            I doubt that America would support subsidised education however. In Denmark and Sweden there is no cost whatsoever for education at any level.
                            
                            I think that my conclusion is that teachers in the US are not overpaid, neither are they particularly underpaid. Instead, your education is far too expensive. And teachers, like any other graduates in the US, are saddled by the burdeon of an unfair debt.
                            
                            Educated people benefit society, society should help pay for them. And the argument for such a system, and the argument which won in Scandinavia, is that the extra tax revenues collected from graduates over the course of their careers exceed the cost of their education.

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                               raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                               Wow, very different in Canada and I believe the US as well.  The figures I was using were based on research from US average salary across the country and average tuition fees per year of college.  In B.C. I think they start somewhere around $45,000/year and I know what that the tuition costs are high having three children graduated from university - two as teachers.  Five years of university and two years for masters - one is just about through her masters

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       Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       In Ohio, teachers must have a masters degree within 10 years of graduating with a bachelors, in order to keep teaching. It's a big expense and a lot of time on top of teaching. 
       
       Starting salary in Columbus City schools is just a bit over $33,000/yr or about $16.50/hr. Many teachers work from 7:00 AM - 5:00 PM or later and then attend classes of their own, then go home and work on lesson plans and grade more papers as well as do their own homework.  Turnover is high, especially with 30-35 kids per classroom in a lot of our K-5.
       
       Can we effectively cut taxes by cutting teachers' salaries? Private schools, including church-based K-5, charge over $400/month at the bottom rock lowest. About $5,000/year and up.  Property taxes pay teachers here and some homeowners without  children want that to end, but education is expensive either way. I must say that the high school dropout rate in Columbus is high at 56%. The suburbs do much better and teachers' salaries are higher there..

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          ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Thats interesting because teachers pay in Ohio ranks them at '6' in the 'Teacher Salary Comfort Index', which means that they should in theory be amongst the most sufficiently payed teachers in the USA, ranked using starting salaries, average salaries, and cost of living.
          
          The average of $50314, pretty much bang on national average, suggests that the cost of living within Ohio is sufficient for a teacher to live a relatively decent lifestyle.
          
          I would suggest therefore that, being placed at 6/50, your teachers are at least 'sufficiently' paid.
          
          Perhaps your friends should stop moaning, get their masters as quickly as possible, and then enjoy their comfortable lives - safe in the knowledge that it could be much worse?

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             Aley Martinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I am under-paid and under-utilized. I work 3 teaching gigs just to LIVE!  I have 2.5 masters and have not made more than $50K a year at all THREE combined. I work harder than a full time instructor and have no benefits. It is my passion...or I would not be doing it. No one gets rich being a teacher...no one.

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                ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Aley, not many people get rich doing anything any more. The reality is that if you moan about your earnings to a stranger in the street or to a group of people in a pub, the chances are that none of them will be earning any more than you and as such would have no sympathy for your 'plight'.
                
                I met a vicar recently, he was moaning about his £25000 a year salary. A vicar for goodness sake! Putting aside the obvious love for his work , I did point out to him that after his benefits had been added (rent free house, equivalent of £6k per year, 10% pension contribution £2.5k per year) he actually earnt more than the national average salary for a job which was largely funded by public donations.
                
                Not many people become rich, and becoming rich does not necessarily make you any happier.
                
                Out of interest, what state are you from?

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                ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Aley, you live in Washington state.
                
                That is number 32 out of 50 on the 'Teacher Salary Comfort Index', which suggests that you would naturally have much less disposable income than our friend Patty
                
                Be thankful that you do not teach in Hawaii And if that still doesn't work, then consider moving to Illinois or Delaware

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                   Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Haha, my school system closed down in 2005 -- been self employed since!

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                leebertteaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Teachers here make well over 100,000 dollars a year for one job and that doesn't include benefits. Obviously you're doing something wrong.

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                   Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   That's amazing.

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                   ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   And where is 'here'? Because I would like to dispute that statement.

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                      leebertteaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Here is in NY. You can dispute it all you want but I actually have the list from payroll of all the teacher's names and their salary that work in my county, so I'm not just making this stuff up.

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                         ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         Maybe for your 'county' but teachers in NY state are amongst the least comfortable at 38/50 with an average starting salary of $37k and an average salary of $57k.
                         
                         Perhaps this fully answers your question then, which was actually "Are teachers in my county overpaid", to which the answer is "Yes, very".
                         
                         And that concludes this thread! Most teachers in the USA are not paid too much. Teachers in leeberttea's local community are overpaid.

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                            leebertteaposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                            To be fair not all teachers in my county have that rate of pay, and missing from the list are the titles. Yes there are many that make less and some that make more. I assume the ones making 140,000+ are administrators of some sort.
                            
                            The bottom line is as I said previously, teachers should be paid what the market will bear, but here in NY there is no way to know what that is since pay is decided between elected officials and the unions, school boards and taxpayers basically have no say, teachers can't strike and can't be replaced by non-union labor. Perhaps all these market distortions have led to teachers being underpaid, but we'll never know unless and until we subject them to the choices of the free market.

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                         Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                         I just read where Houston, Texas is planning a $100,000 teaching salary for those with best results; don't know if it's implemented yet.

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                raisingmeposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                You sir are among those in our society that I consider to hold one of the most valuable positions in our society.  The fact that this is not recognized by the majority of the public as a whole and as indicated by the majority of posts in this forum makes me want to wretch!

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             Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             $50+K avg is inflated by much-higher-paying suburbs and a large group of older teachers at the top of the pay scale after 30 years, but never had to earn a masters. I think some teachers picked the wrong profession if they thought getting a masters and teaching in the city schools would be easy.  I taught for higher wages than starting, but already had a masters - and produced top results in graduations, college placements, and employment placements long-term after graduation.  Never saw the $50K, though, after only 11 years at it...and there was a wage freeze...
             
             Today 5 years later, raises are based on standardized testing results. No wonder imo so many younger teachers quit and do something else. I think the problem is in the city school system and suburban teachers are at least comfortable in their income levels here. Should salaries be cut? I don't know.

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11. 0

    PrettyPantherposted 13 years ago

    It is my experience that some people think everyone else, especially government employees, are paid too much, even when the facts indicate otherwise.  Conversely, it is my experience that most people think they personally are not paid enough, even when the facts indicate otherwise.

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       Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Many times, yes.  I had a contact once that had a high school diploma and worked in a small non-profit organization as clerk-secretary. She made around $23K to start and felt the social worker earning $36K was overpaid, so she went to boss and told him to fire the social worker and pay her (the clerk) $59K.  She felt completely justified because she felt her work was the most diffcult.

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12. 65

    Faybe Bayposted 13 years ago

    There was a forum started on a similar subject. It was not because teachers make too much money, but because a wall street investment banker was disgruntled and decided he was going to quit and becaome a teacher or a gardener. I decided to do research and find out what teachers make. I found Taylor Mali, and he changed my life, as teachers do.
    
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tpog1_NFd2Q
    
    I was lucky enough to have a teacher who inspired me to become a writer. Taylor Mali has decided he wants to inspire people to become teachers. He is working hard toward that goal.
    
    Teachers in Florida do not make as much as teachers in Ohio, or New York, and they do spend their own money on supplies. Sadly, I actually went campaigning to get some teachers to vote. They were thankful that someone actually cared what they made. That was 2 years ago. One cried and shook my hand. She was surprised that someone came to her door and asked her to go out and vote... I hope she got a raise.

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13. 85

    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    some of the school districts model their curriculums from these high performing countries.  our 'problem' is the size of our country. Each state is like it's own country in some respects. NY has much higher property taxes than South Carolina or Oklahoma. When a government tries to implement something across the board, it's a huge bureaucratic, messy undertaking. That's one reason No Child Left Behind did not work.
    
    Here in Florida, there is no state income tax. most states impose a state income tax which helps to fund k-12 and higher education. I used to live in upstate NY, the taxes are very high, but the education was top of the class.
    
    We could never implement subsidized education for all students at every level, and sadly higher education has become more of a birthright. The average family will either have to depend on scholarships and grants, student loans or the student goes to a community college which is less costly, or they are left without a higher education which leads to more unemployment, as there are so many more qualified also without work.

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       ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I would respond to that but I am trying hard not to offend any Americans. Actually, forget it....
       
       Scandinavian countries are successful in not involving themselves in any major military action.
       
       The cost of the Iraq war to the American tax payer was/has beenso far $727,213,775,139.
       
       Bearing in mind that Iraq had very little involvement with Al Quada, and as such bore very little relevance to foreign terror attacks, so probably was not a neccessity.....
       
       Assuming $20000 a year (quoted by somebody above) for a 4 year degree programme, that is where the free education for over 9 million American graduate students has gone. Alternatively, that is where you national debt repayments have gone too.
       
       And before anybody throws anti-American accusations at me, please note that this is also where the British opportunity for a free education has gone too, since we started that war alongside you. That is also where our national debt repayments have gone.
       
       That does not include the money spent on the Afghan war, which is a war that I happen to support, since this genuinely was a breeding ground for international terrorists and because of the close relationships between Al Quada and The Taliban.
       
       I am interested in knowing how American society (and British society) have benefited from the war in Iraq. I still cannot put my finger on it.
       
       The refusal of Scandinavia to carry out unneccessary military action is the reason that they are so strong financially, whilst the UK and US are indefinitely indebted to China to fund a war which China did not even support morally.
       
       *Awaits Anti-American Accusations*

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          Good Intentionsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I actually agree with the both wars.  Not because we were fooled into it by false weapons of mass destructions but because the ordinary people need a chance to be set free.  They need to be allowed to grow and feel safe.  It is a human right.  These countries have dictatorships - like Hitler. 
          
          It seems unfair, however, that the rest of the world are still allowing Magabe to slaughter and imprison innocent people.  He is a dictator too... the only difference is that he doesn't have oil.
          
          Anyway, going off the subject, the main cause of the world economy is the bankers, from the USA (sorry guys, but it is a fact), who fraudulently duped the world bankers...
          We have a world debt that needs paying back and it is, yet again, the first level people of the world who have to suffer and pay, therefore, no teachers are nt paid too much... they are just the blighters who have to suffer cutbacks - cos those in positions of power wont!

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             ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             There is a strong argument which points to the people of Baghdad being more 'free' under the rule of Saddam Hussain. Particularly the millions of people who once had homes, and now do not, instead living in shanty towns with no food or medical supplies. Hussain spent most of the states tax revenues on social services, such as education and hospitals, by most accounts Iraq was a much nice place to live under the rule of Saddam Hussain. The UK government have since admitted that there was no evidence of weapons of mass destruction presented to them by the US government. There are videos on YouTube of Saddam Hussein stating to both American and British politicians that he would be willing to sit down with George Bush and talk diplomatically, an invitation which Bush refused. Would Obama refuse the chance to avoid conflict? I don't think so.

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                Good Intentionsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                Ive seen documentaries where women are now allowed to wear make up.  They can listen to radio and watch real news on the tv.  There have been a lot of good thinks happen.
                
                The country is in transition.  Change doesnt happen over night... it has to be slow and measured.
                
                Before calm, there is a storm but after the storm, there is calm.  This is the natural course of life... Look at Yugoslavia.. it really hasnt been too long after people are now holidaying there.  We all need to be patient and work for the freedom of the people.
                
                I am sorry Ryan, but people need time to adjust

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                   ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   Well actually, I went on holiday with my family to Yugoslavia several times as a very young child prior to the war. It was a beautiful country and we all had a great time. The country was safe to go to pre-war, that conflict did not open any doors.

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          Jeff Berndtposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          Ryankett, the US spends more money on its military than the next fourteen nations combined, and most of those fourteen nations are our allies, like Great Britain, France, and Australia. If we were to spend only as much as, say, the closest ten competitors, perhaps we might be able to pay off our debts a lot sooner, or educate our people, or perhaps research alternative forms of energy ....
          
          But I'm starting to ramble.
          
          And yes, the global economy took a hard hit because of American brokers selling worthless investments (but pretending that they were valuable). I wrote a hub about it, actually.
          
          But then again, Defense is a Federal budget item. Education is (or ought to be) the provenance of the States.

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    rebekahELLEposted 13 years ago

    well, yeah, I see where you're going. we spend a lot of money on wars, too much.

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    seanorjohnposted 13 years ago

    Yes, some teachers are paid too much because they always look for shortcuts. They don't set homework because they are too lazy to mark it.
    If they do set homework it is marked in class. This means they can waste 20 mins of a lesson.Many don't even bother checking if anyone has done their homework. The pupils mark their own work.
    Many Maths teachers are particularly lazy. All they do is say "open your books at page 21 and answer Questions 1-10".They might grudgingly give one example but then you're on your own.
    
    Why should these teachers be paid the same as the really hardworking ones?

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       Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       That's what I liked about the old No Excuses program in Detroit schools,. Principals could fire older tenured teachers that were not performing well out of laziness.

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    Len Cannonposted 13 years ago

    There aren't enough ways to say "no" to the idea that teachers are paid TOO much.

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    2befreeposted 13 years ago

    Is this a rhetorical question?  Typically, in order to attract people to a profession a decent pay scale needs to exist, although in this case people teach out of care for others and their communities, with a deeply-held belief in education.  I believe that many teachers are sacrificing their livelihoods for something they believe in, and pay is included in that sacrifice.  Long stressful hours and a thankless job, one encumbered by administration because of the No Child Left Behind Act, feeling their hands are tied...I really feel for our teachers, and am very thankful so many dedicated ones are still around because I want my child to have a quality education.  :-)

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       Aley Martinposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I teach in Massachusetts for an online college.

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    ktrothposted 13 years ago

    Teachers aren't paid enough!  My husband is a teacher and with all the extra hours he puts in at school and at home, he certainly doesn't make enough.  If you want your children to get a good education, you need good teachers.  And just like any other employee, a good teacher needs to be compensated for a job well-done.  They don't get bonuses, at least not financially.  And they don't get raises based on performance.  They get salary increases occasionally, but not it's not a lot.  Believe me, teachers are worth more than they are paid.

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    Originposted 13 years ago

    About the "extra hours" being put in for a salaried teacher position. There are a lot of salaried positions where the employer forces you (otherwise you are fired or you quit) to work way more hours than you typically do. During my last job I was making about 50k per year, but I also worked about 70-80 hours per week. Granted, my bonuses were mouthwatering, but I was just lucky to even work at that company to get them, many companies in my field don't (my company had profit sharing).
    
    It really just depends on the field, teachers usually work extra hours, but like I said there are many salaried careers out there that pay you way under what you work because you work so much.

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    Patty Inglish, MSposted 13 years ago

    Just for information's sake -- In 1997, teachers here started at $23.00+/hour; in 2010 the rate is approx. $16.50/hour. Cost of living and inflation have increased over the last 13 years, so the current rate is lower yet in comparison to the former rate.
    
    Suburban schools, private schools offer more effective education, private schools cost the parents substantial money; and these teachers are sometimes paid less than starting public school teachers.
    
    I don't know the answer to the dilemma. Administrative salaries are disporportionately high, though.

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    sdippleposted 13 years ago

    Good teachers are never paid enough.  Poor ones are paid too much. 
    
    We all feel the pinch of hard economic times, but a better question would be how can we as parents support our children and our teachers to get the most bang for our buck?
    
    Often we see money being spent on things we don't consider essential, but many times that money is already ear-marked for renovations, salaries, etc.  Once voters pass a levy, it cannot be used for other things, so new levies have to be brought to the table.  Different money for different purposes.
    
    Another note - good teachers do not mind being scrutinized.  I personally welcome anyone into my classroom and am happy to explain methodology, management, how statistical data guides my teaching, brain research on how kids learn best...and show them how I am on the floor with students showing them how to learn.
    
    You know, I don't feel I am paid enough.  I spend over $1000 per year of my own money to put materials into my classroom for kids whose parents can't or won't purchase them, put books on the shelves, decorate...all of those things are what schools do not provide.  I work 12 months per year - not 9.  My hours extend into the evening and begin at 7:00 in the morning.  However...
    
    if I just showed up when the doors opened, left every day with the kids, put little effort into my lessons and did not invest my emotional energy into my students, then you bet I would be paid too much.
    
    The solution?  I don't know, but please don't demonize all teachers for being paid too much.  It's kind of like two heart surgeons who get paid the same amount for the same surgery.  One patient dies, the other lives.  Who was paid too much?  I hold your kids daily lives in my hands every day of the school year.  Am I really paid too much?

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       Kathryn LJposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Good point and well put.  No your not paid too much.  And your pupils will remember your name when they're 60.  Your changing peoples lives sdipple, nothing more amazing than that.

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