Feminism vs. Chivalry
- Stevennix2001posted 14 years ago
0In another thread I started a while back, many of you blamed the equal right movement with women and feminism for the reasons why chivalry is dead...or mostly dead anyway. therefore, i would like to know how do you draw that line then? i know it's right to treat women as equals, but can any of you cite examples of displaying chivalry without compromising a woman's independence then? i only ask this since MOST of you blamed it on equal rights and feminism for chivalry's death, so now I ask you to list examples of how to show chivalry in a equal rights era.
- JeanMeriamposted 14 years ago0
Well I know what the males in my house do that I like, so I'll just use them.
Open doors and let the woman go first, carry heavy stuff, look after the vehicles. My husband still closes vehicle doors behind me sometimes if we go on a date. Little things like that.
And chivalry is pretty much dead and I blame it on bad upbringing. I have walked into stores carrying a baby in one arm and holding a toddler hand with the other and many men under say 35 will just stand there and stare stupidly rather than hold a door open. One actually let me and the kids hold it for him. I let go of it and it hit him. Accidentally
Hahaha UW.... You need a job as a Tour Coach Driver
How do you manage when everybody fights over who is going to hold the door open for you?
*Smokin*
You remind me of someone I once knew...nicely stated.
Thank you.
I was raised by a master and she taught me well...
Having a degree in sociology (or anything else) would suggest that you know how to pay a school and jump through their academic hoops - very little more. Your words reveal that either A. you really do NOT know as much about it as you think, or B. you are a hypocrite. I prefer to think it's just A, since you seem like a nice person overall.
Whether you believe it or not, BEFORE equal rights men were being told how to be men and women were being told how to be women (and it's still happening). And yes, it was a major problem...and still IS a major problem. Feminism and the equal rights movement suggested that people can and should figure those things out on their own without being pigeon-holed into arbitrary roles.
For a supposed sociologist you sure make a lot of generalizations, oh wait...you only said you had a degree, my bad.
For your edification: Look into the New Woman Movement. See how many bombs were thrown, see how many babies died of venereal disease because of the Madonna/Whore dichotomy, see what women really had to live through and try to imagine yourself there. See how many women protested with only words and hard work. They WERE heroes, and the fact that you can sit here and call the women who MADE IT POSSIBLE FOR YOU TO BE HERE terrorists is the disgrace.
If that doesn't do it for you, take a look at the current state of Female Genital Mutilation around the world and tell me we don't need some feminism and equal rights going on all over the place.
Have a good day.I disagree that feminism is unnecessary (At least in the western world, just the feminist de-construction of language alone teaches us things that are important, IMO).
However, certainly there are parallels between feminism and humanitarianism - on this we can agree. We can also agree that those feminists who push for a "different" set of rights are doing themselves AND reasonable feminists AND everyone else a disservice.
I highly respect your desire to go to different places and serve others. Be careful, and I wish you much strength. You will need it.
I have no malice for you, or anyone, merely an opinionated "mouth".
Grace and Peace to you as well, Fiona!
ETA: Also...don't forget, Fiona-"the poor will always be with us." I hope your strength, faith, and goodwill can withstand the onslaught. You are very much needed...Take care.Thank- you very much for your kind and considerate response. I will remember your words. Bless you and your studies. I hope all goes well for you.
Grace and peace to you,
Fiona
You may be different from most women and that is fine as long as you are happy with it. However most women are physically stronger than women and more emotionally sensitive.
Because of physiological differences this strength is much more readily available to men than women. For instance men are built for strength with stringer upper bodies and the increased testosterone gives rise to adrenaline for readily. Women are rarely so muscular naturally. Also the estrogen levels in us does trigger more emotional responses.
As I say you may be different and this is fine. It would be the exception though and not the rule. I celebrate difference as I am sure you do, but I also have a background in Physiology and am aware of the physiological basis for physical and behavioral differences in me and women.
Again I appreciate that you may be different and I do not mean any offense. Thanks for taking the time to respond to my comment. I appreciate the points you have raised.
Grace and peace to you,
FionaActually, pound for pound of muscle, women are actually physically stronger than men, especially in terms of lower body strength. We seem weaker, on average, only because men tend to be taller and to have proportionally more muscle. Additionally, women tend to have higher physical endurance and greater tolerance for pain, so frankly, this "weaker sex" business is total BS.
I also question the emotional generalizations you made. Men don't tend to be as open about their emotions, true, but how much of that is biological and how much is social conditioning? The men I know intimately enough to see their emotional side tend to be just as emotional as women, it's just expressed differently, and over different things.
And they don't go crazy once a month, but hey, I read once that a comparable flood of hormones in men would literally kill them, so I'm not sure they really get to complain. I have no idea if it's true and don't think it could be ethically tested anyway, but I've found it makes a good retort to stupid jokes about that time of month.- imagien a man havng a baby
- I know. they have no idea how much it takes to be a woman.
I really have no problem at all being treated as a lesser class of human, so long as someone else would take the goddamn trash to the dump.
If people want to play the gender BS roles, fine. Ill bitch when my nail breaks, but come the fuck on? do I have to do EVERYTHING?!!??? Well I deffinitley agree that a man could not withstand labor. My only statement in this instance is that men and women are Physiologically different. This is the biological basis for body and behavior differences between men and women. Of course individuals differ within categories of man and women and these make no one less man or less woman. But it is the biological rule based on genetic blueprint and secretion of hormones and resultant behaviours. Everyone has a different hormonal balance. Men can have 10 to 40 times more testosterone than a woman. That's a huge variation within men! It wold make a difference behaviorally.
Women also have different levels of estrogen, progesterone and testosterone too so of course there are going to be major body and behavior differences within the 'woman spectrum'.
The only thing I'm saying is that men and women have different physiology and this leads to differences in men and women.
I am happy there are such differences between varieties of men and varieties of women. It's great that folk are different and I have respect for all the different types of men and women on this forum whether they have strong feminist leanings or dream of being a patriarch devoted housewife- and all in between. Always great to hear other folks opinions.
Grace and peace to you all!
Fiona
The only thing I agree with there is that women have a higher pain threshold and this we know is because women are birth givers. However men don't need this pain threshold internally. Also men's external bodies are 10 times less sensitive than womens.
Women have a much higher flesh, fat and water percentage and so are far less muscular. It is not the rule that women are more muscular than men. Of course we have strength in our lower bodies and it would be a nightmare carrying children if we didn't. Women who don't have this lower body strength have very troubled pregnancies and could even suffer a split pelvis.
We even note that women balance weights like children and grocery shopping on their hips. I appreciate your difference of opinion but I personally do not believe it is the rule. I believe it is the exception.
As for the hormonal difference I did not state that men do not have feelings, but that they are less prone to emotional response and this because they are less driven by emotion effecting hormones. I do not think women all get moody when menstruating. Some however do and the most profound evidence of this is the syncing of menstrual cycles that occurs when women live in close proximity. Hormones are contagious and women do become more easily aggrivated when they live with other women during menstruation. This is not incidental or because the women the happen to live with are a challenge. It is just biological fact.
It;s also notable that homosexual men have higher estrogen levels which homosexual women have higher testosterone levels. Hormones of course dictate our behavior. Many women on the pill have noticed the insanity that occurs when they are flooded by testosterone.
I believe there is a huge physiological difference between men and women and that this dictates our behaviors and abilities to a certain degree.
Now I don't think women are shrinking violets. I am a strong and capable woman. I just know what my body can and can't do and what thigs I am emotionally effected by. I also know this is the rule and not the expeption. Not to say that there aren't exceptions and I appreciate that you may be one and I am thankful that differing opinions can be encouraged in this community and embraced.
Grace and peace to you,
Fiona
Amen sister!
Grace and peace,
Fiona
Excellent! Well said!
Dude, we're not talking about female civilians here, we're talking about female soldiers who have been through the same training as their male compatriots. Women have served as combat soldiers openly (in some societies) or in disguise for thousands of years. It's not a new development at all, and I have yet to hear of any case where they needed to be "rescued" or "protected" any more than male soldiers of similar training and competence.
Actually, in some cases they have outdone male soldiers of similar training and competence. The most decorated air force unit in the Soviet military during World War 2 was an all female battalion known as the "Night Witches" by the Germans who got their asses kicked by them.
- cosetteposted 14 years ago0
right on!
- Lecieposted 14 years ago0
Here is my mini list,
1. Open The Doors
2. Pull out her chair
3. Take her coat and drape it behind the chair
4. Ask her to order first or order for her
5. Ask her what she wishes to drink and then order
6. A gentleman always pays they do not go Dutch
7. Bring her flowers just because
8. Walk her to the door and kiss her on the cheek goodnite without any expectations.
9. You call her first or text don't expect her to call you.
10. Tell her how stunning she looks or how nice she smells.
Just a mini-list something I have grown accustomed to in my marriage and the chivalry continues.here is my list.
I know, Im being repetitave, I have my reasons...
Ive done EVERYTHING but your 'job' for over ten years..TAKE OUT THE TRASH!!!!You are so funny!! You are telling someone to take out the trash and that is something else they can do too!
I know, he CAN take out the trash, isn't that spposed to be the "man" thing? Im "barefoot and pregnant" I do all the housework, laundry, dishes, cooking, cleaning, give him head whenever he wants, pay the bills, wash the floor on hands and knees, I make his coffee and breakfast and pack his lunch every morning, and all this is becuase I love him. He doesnt make me, but after a while..come on .....I have allways wanted to be a good housewife and mother, thats all, but if I am doing the "woman" thing..shouldnt he have to take out the trash? I mean....really? Am I asking too much?He should take out the TRASH not take advantage and you can tell him I said so!
Ok. I will!!
i just noticed its after 1 am....omg!!! why arent I asleep?You had better get to bed, morning comes early but I have found myself doing the same thing.
Your little one needs rest to and are you have a boy or a girl? 3 girls. all sound asleep. ages 12, 9 and 8.
I most likely will sleep tonight. I was going to say tomrrow,but it IS tomorrow!! ha
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