Ignorant people should not be ignored. They have numerous misguided followers with minds of sheep. There's always at least one who will go to extremes and be out of control. Christians and Muslims have had this struggle for centuries -Crusades 1095-1300; The Reconquista 711–1492. We just keep fighting because we never learned religious tolerance. How ignorant is that??!!
I couldn't agree more.
As I said before (and was lost in the jumble):
We need to learn to Coexist.
http://peacemonger.org/images/CoexistMeaning.jpg
Ahhh....
What a seemingly-benign attitude, the idea that all those different types of beliefs and non-beliefs can peacefully co-exist!
Actually, I agree that they can! But only if, by co-existing, you mean existing in the same world, but not the same confined general area like......a State, or even within one Nation.
....The very nature of the differences between those, and other, myriad ideas/ideals makes it imperative that a certain DISTANCE and SEPARATION is maintained between those "religions" and/or "lifestyles". That's where individual freedom is able to take its natural course. When all those opposing ideas are forced to "coexist", it will never remain peaceful! Because one "religion" or mindset will infringe upon the other, no doubt about it. It's hard enough to co-exist closely with like-minded people without any friction, much less with those whose views are polar opposites. That's why each Nation should have its own sovreignty within common-sense limits.
but within each nation people have differences.
do we want 300 million segregated communities?
I said each Nation.
I'm not interested in Mr. Obama's nor Mr. Kissinger's nor even George H.W. Bush's philosophy of "One World Order".
They can stop pushing their carp onto me as a citizen who wants my freedom protected, not the freedom of other Nations nor individuals to impose theirs upon me. And that means the U.S.A needs to start protecting what's already here instead of inviting the whole world to bring anti-American attitudes and laws into it.
Again with the carp! Why do you hate carp?
because (not to generalize), but all carp are homosexuals...
That is so disturbing, I was thinking of having a fish fillet for dinner but now I don't think so.
why? because the fish is of a different color, or because it is a male fish?
SHAME!!
The image may have caused her to think of "alternative" fish-human interaction.
Yes, I don't believe in interspecies mating. That guy is taking advantage of that poor fish. There I said it.
Exactly, where the fish is helpless, if it was the bottom it can wiggle away -- helllooooo!
Just to clarify, Muslims are part of the Protestant sect, right?
Being Greek Orthodox, all you heretics and atheists confuse me
I've already burnt a half dozen today...
I got a waste basket full of crumpled up stained qu'ran pages in the bathroom to burn in a lil while, also.
Just warming up.
Great, and some closed-minded, unenlightened warmonger somewhere else is burning Bibles. How exactly does that do anything positive at all?
Do we have to press the Apocalypse button to make you happy? Is that the only way to please you, KILL them all because ONLY you know "The Truth?"
What then? Third Reich? Fourth Reich? Figure out whose next on the list for not buying your world view close enough?
I am pro-apocalypse. But I don't believe I know "the truth".
Wipe the planet clean, start over.
For what? So some other species could evolve out of the ashes? What the hell's the point of that? So that "maybe they could be better?" They could be worse too. Your stance is indefensible.
Just because you're a total misanthrope doesn't mean you need to take the rest of us with you. Do what you have to do, but leave everyone else out of it.
Eventually mother nature will get rid of us when she's had enough of what we've done to her.
That is true. My point is that I'm in no rush to get there. Frankly, I'd like to see us get a foothold on some other planets so that the joy of our endless infighting and selfishness can endure. Who knows, maybe eventually our ancestors will finally go, "Holy crap, we are morons. Let's try being nice," at some point.
Yes, but hoping for that moment seems to fly in the face of your pro-apocalyptic remarks. You either hope we can continue to evolve into an enlightened species or you hope we wipe out. Hoping for both is paradoxical.
Well, I wasn't serious about the pro-apocalypse thing. I was just poking fun.
I'm all for enlightened evolution.
I'd like to go with the anti-apocalypse so if you can point that group out...
They are on an entirely different forum.
All we have here is fire and brimstone with a little Islamofascism thrown in.
Great, no smores, too late for hot dogs and fried chicken, a disturbing picture of a fish and its manfriend and now I'm stuck with the Pro-apocalypse group - and the day isn't over yet. Sheesh.
it's called the "Surf and Turf" movement.. and we are sick of people like you trying to prohibit our love!!
I'm not prohibiting your love, it just put me off my intended dinner. I am still allowed to carp.
How will they ever get the smell out of that fish?
There's an aerosol product called CDS.
Yes, we do.
We all have to co-exist and realize that we all possess certain rights and the freedom to excersize those rights.
Regardless of who likes it.
Speaking of rights. Islam should soon be removed from the protected class of, "Religion", Italy has set an excellent precedent, ruling that Islam is not a religion.
I love it... finally some sanity in this world.
America, the land of the free. We each have the freedom of speech, of religion, the pursuit of happiness. They do have the freedom to burn those books. But, christians are not suppose to offend. Burning the Quran is offensive. Maybe instead of worrying about the Quran, they should read their own Bible?
They seem to have missed, love your enemies and do not offend.
Should they pull the beam out of their own eye before worrying about any one elses?
Also, not all followers of the Quran are enemies!
Christ does not tell me to embrace an ideology of hate and allow it to abuse all around the world and slaughter all non-believers in God's name. My God does not direct me to embrace hatred and murder, and stand around like a flower-child in san-fransisco tripping on shrooms spewing kum-by-ya songs all day.
No... I haven't found that in my bible.
Perhaps certain individuals, Christians and other-wise, should read the qu'ran and a'hadis before speaking on the matter.
Any Christian who defends islam as a true religion of our God, is lost and needs to wake up. Being a Christian in good faith and standing, does not mean we should lie down and wallow in PC till those who hate us, destroy us.
does Christ tell you to burn documents that don't agree with his teachings?
Oh please...
You all act like qu'rans are being rounded up by the church and state and destroyed while we imprison and execute those who owned them.
Give it a break.
If I want to buy a book and burn it, that is my own bussiness and my right.
It is fairly straight forward and simple, greek. You don't have to like it, and you can try to blame it on Christ and Christianity or christian extremists all you want. But the fact is, it is just a simple and efficient way to make a statement, and it speaks volumes.
That book is a message of hate and subjagation and should not be allowed to be taught in any school or house of worship in the United States. We banned White racist churches and put the people runnin them in prison. The same should be done to Islam. But then that would mean a revision of the qu'ran, if islam were to stay here in America, and that is impossible in islam.
So... here in the real world Islam should be called what it is.... hate speech.
It is not a "holy" book.
Death of Women, Children, Infants, and Unborn babies.
Numbers 31:17Now therefore kill every male among the little ones, and kill every woman that hath known man by lying with him. 18But all the women children, that have not known a man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves.
Joshua 10:28And that day Joshua took Makkedah, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and the king thereof he utterly destroyed, them, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain: and he did to the king of Makkedah as he did unto the king of Jericho. 29Then Joshua passed from Makkedah, and all Israel with him, unto Libnah, and fought against Libnah: 30And the LORD delivered it also, and the king thereof, into the hand of Israel; and he smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein; he let none remain in it; but did unto the king thereof as he did unto the king of Jericho.31And Joshua passed from Libnah, and all Israel with him, unto Lachish, and encamped against it, and fought against it: 32And the LORD delivered Lachish into the hand of Israel, which took it on the second day, and smote it with the edge of the sword, and all the souls that were therein, according to all that he had done to Libnah.
2 Kings 2:23And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him, and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head. 24And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.
2 Kings 15:16Then Menahem smote Tiphsah, and all that were therein, and the coasts thereof from Tirzah: because they opened not to him, therefore he smote it; and all the women therein that were with child he ripped up.
Psalms 137:9Happy shall he be, that taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones.
Psalms 137:9Happy is the one who takes your babies and smashes them against the rocks. (NLT)
Ezekial 9: 5And to the others he said in mine hearing, Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither have ye pity: 6Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children, and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the house. 7And he said unto them, Defile the house, and fill the courts with the slain: go ye forth. And they went forth, and slew in the city.
Hosea 9:16Ephraim is smitten, their root is dried up, they shall bear no fruit: yea, though they bring forth, yet will I slay even the beloved fruit of their womb.
Hosea 13:16Samaria shall become desolate; for she hath rebelled against her God: they shall fall by the sword: their infants shall be dashed in pieces, and their women with child shall be ripped up.
Punishment for cursing parents (Death):
Exodus 21:15And he that smiteth his father, or his mother, shall be surely put to death.
Exodus 21:17And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.
Deuteronomy 21:18If a man have a stubborn and rebellious son, which will not obey the voice of his father, or the voice of his mother, and that, when they have chastened him, will not hearken unto them: 19Then shall his father and his mother lay hold on him, and bring him out unto the elders of his city, and unto the gate of his place; 20And they shall say unto the elders of his city, This our son is stubborn and rebellious, he will not obey our voice; he is a glutton, and a drunkard. 21And all the men of his city shall stone him with stones, that he die: so shalt thou put evil away from among you; and all Israel shall hear, and fear.
Matthew 15:1Then came to Jesus scribes and Pharisees, which were of Jerusalem, saying, 2Why do thy disciples transgress the tradition of the elders? for they wash not their hands when they eat bread. 3But he answered and said unto them, Why do ye also transgress the commandment of God by your tradition? 4For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
Punishment For Apostates (Death):
Deuteronomy 13:6If thy brother, the son of thy mother, or thy son, or thy daughter, or the wife of thy bosom, or thy friend, which is as thine own soul, entice thee secretly, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which thou hast not known, thou, nor thy fathers; 7Namely, of the gods of the people which are round about you, nigh unto thee, or far off from thee, from the one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth; 8Thou shalt not consent unto him, nor hearken unto him; neither shall thine eye pity him, neither shalt thou spare, neither shalt thou conceal him: 9But thou shalt surely kill him; thine hand shall be first upon him to put him to death, and afterwards the hand of all the people. 10And thou shalt stone him with stones, that he die; because he hath sought to thrust thee away from the LORD thy God, which brought thee out of the land of Egypt, from the house of bondage.
Deuteronomy 13: 13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known; 14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you; 15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.
Deuteronomy 17:3And hath gone and served other gods, and worshipped them, either the sun, or moon, or any of the host of heaven, which I have not commanded; 4And it be told thee, and thou hast heard of it, and enquired diligently, and, behold, it be true, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought in Israel: 5Then shalt thou bring forth that man or that woman, which have committed that wicked thing, unto thy gates, even that man or that woman, and shalt stone them with stones, till they die.
2 Chronicles 15:13That whosoever would not seek the LORD God of Israel should be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman.
Romans 1:21Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened. 22Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools, 23And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things. 24Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: 25Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. 26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; 29Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, 30Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: 32Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.
Punishment for Psychics (Death):
Leviticus 20: 27A man also or woman that hath a familiar spirit, or that is a wizard, shall surely be put to death: they shall stone them with stones: their blood shall be upon them.
Punishment for Rapists (or Rape Victims, You Decide):
Deuteronomy 22:28If a man find a damsel that is a virgin, which is not betrothed, and lay hold on her, and lie with her, and they be found; 29Then the man that lay with her shall give unto the damsel's father fifty shekels of silver, and she shall be his wife; because he hath humbled her, he may not put her away all his days.
Deuteronomy 22:28 If a man meets a virgin who is not engaged, and seizes her and lies with her, and they are caught in the act, 29the man who lay with her shall give fifty shekels of silver to the young woman’s father, and she shall become his wife. Because he violated her he shall not be permitted to divorce her as long as he lives. (NRSV)
From Dictionary.com
Seize- To grasp suddenly and forcibly; take or grab
Deuteronomy 22:23 If a damsel that is a virgin be betrothed unto an husband, and a man find her in the city, and lie with her; 24 Then ye shall bring them both out unto the gate of that city, and ye shall stone them with stones that they die; the damsel, because she cried not, being in the city; and the man, because he hath humbled his neighbour's wife
Might as well burn'em all and get it over with.
I don't deny it is your right to burn anything you want... and since I am Christian, I know that it is not something that Christians inherently do.
In fact I am saying the opposite.. that destroying things is a decidedly an unChristian to do.
In fact, the act of burning things is remarkably similar to what goes on in many Islamic countries... different kindling material, same shameful act
What is going on here is far from what you speak of, greek.
Stop equating all things as the same... this 30 member church is burning qu'rans.
The Govt. or the States religion, is not confiscating books killing all who have them.
Entirely different.
And the fact that you all would stoop to throwing up red herrings like that is very telling.
I wasn't talking about the government or the state.. I was you specifically based on you own posts... which are indeed very telling
"In fact, the act of burning things is remarkably similar to what goes on in many Islamic countries..."
Govt, or State religion.
Keep up.
are you saying that those who burn Bibles are doing so because the state tells them to?
No, they do it for the same reasons you want to burn things
In Islamic countries the Govts and Mosques are right in on the burning and slaughtering of non-muslims, books and all, greek.
As I said... keep up.
Oh and here in the states they burn bibles and flags in regards to the idiocy the leant leftists and American haters spout all the time.
No not Govt... but probrably close these days.
TMMason, there are plenty of hostile right wing lunatics and religious fanatics in Islamic counties ,both in and out of their government...
which is clearly the case in your country as well.
Perhaps the real solution is to put all of you with such a similar mindset together on one island and let you sort out your differences amongst yourselves?
That way, the rest of us can worship whomever we want in peace without the smell of things burning in the air?
You really want to compare one 30 member church in shit-water FL., to religious nation states like Saudi Arabia and Iran.
Please, that is absurd.
You simply could not read it with the context of the verses; some verses preceding and some verse follwing, might be hurrying to burn. Man read it with patience.
God gave us each free will. He doesn't force any one to follow him. He did tell us to forgive, turn the other cheek. Love our enemies. We are told not to offend. We are told not to judge others.
He told his disiples to put their swords away, saying he who lives by the sword will die by the sword.
There are peaceful muslims as there are the extremist christians.
Judge not, lest ye be judged your self.
Only God has the right to judge.
That is exactly right. God is the judge, not us.
Does Allah tell terrorists to fly planes into buildings?
I did once help build a bonfire in 1980 about 60 feet tall. We hauled an outhouse to the top and put a picture of the ayatollah khomeini on it.
But we did that all on our own without any instruction from Jesus.
We did have some help from the US Army recruiters. They bought us beer and made sure there were plenty of very attractive women around.
That's disgusting! I would never, EVER, move an outhouse! People need those to poop in!
Ron, quit imposing your religious views on me.
You're getting as bad as the Jehovah's witness bunch that keeps dropping by.
They tend to go away when you exercise your 1st amendment rights by pissing on them.
After having read this entire thread I have come to the conclusion that I must have followed poor Alice into wonderland.
What has happened to the sensible people in this country that understand the whole reason that America exists in the first place is so that we do not have to live in fear.
I realize that I may not be totally up to date on all the latest religious propaganda being spewed here but any one with eyes and a lick of common sense can plainly see that religion (no matter whose) is causing the problem.
People think for yourselves! The Muslims and Christians have been embroiled in conflict and war with each other or anyone that contradicts their point of view for as long as history has been recorded.
So the only logical solution is to outlaw all religion, and it's viscous venomous hate filled rhetoric.
I try so hard to be tolerant of all religions but in my short amount of time on Earth so far (23 years) I'm starting to feel as thought you are right.
Maybe, the only way we can all get along is for all religion to be abolished.
It is my opinion that one day most will come to the realization that following the text of some ancient book, whose soul purpose for existence was to allow a certain group of people to maintain power over others, is as inanely stupid as the migration of the lemmings.
Why would abolishing all religion bring peace? People would simply select a different criterion as a basis to discriminate a segment of people.
It is not religion that divides the people ; it is the Politics in the name of religion that divides.
Even when all religions would supposedly be abolished, the Politics will play its role; like the Politics of "abolishing all the religions" could do now.
Simple humanity and respecting one another may slove the problem at hand.
Religion is not the problem, it is the shameless attitude and disrespect for other human beings just like us!
I find it easy to agree with this statement!
The ability to duplicate all viewpoints creates wisdom.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/matt-sled … amp;src=sp
Where Love is closeness to, Hate is distance from. Total Hate is total distance from or opposition to. Hate is the degree of distance from an area, coldness, opposition to the correct and precise spirit, knowledge, games, perceptions, intentions, visions, plans, who, what, where, when, why, how, importance, value, mood, responsibility, motions and actions with inaccurately predicted consequences, outcomes and accomplishments.
Love is the degree of closeness, warmth, at-oneness with the correct and precise spirit, knowledge, game, perception, intention, vision, plan, who, what, where, when, why, how, importance, value, mood, responsibilities, motions and actions with accurately predicted consequences, outcomes and accomplishments. These attributes in their purest form set the principles and standards by which every human being condones or judges itself and others.
Ignorance, is the unknowing and unawareness of the interactions and inter-depencence of the correct and exact and precise correctness of spirit, game, perception, intention, vision, plan, who, what, where, when, why, how, importance, value, mood, responsibility, motion, and action, with inaccurately predicted consequences, outcomes, and accomplishments of those interactions and inter-dependences.
The only enemy mankind has, the only one is its individual and collective ignorance. There is no other enemy!
"The only enemy mankind has, the only one is its individual and collective ignorance. There is no other enemy!"
I agree wholeheartedly with this.
The Florida Church should not burn Quran; it is no service to humanity
One Voice In America
This is a plea to (the debatable) Rev. Terry Jones at the Dove Outreach in Gainesville, FL.
Dear Mr. Jones,
As I sat on my porch this morning waking up for my day, I was drinking my coffee and enjoying the gorgeous morning my Abba Father made. I started looking through the morning paper like I usually do, when an article caught my eye. As I read the article I almost fell out of my chair. I could not believe my eyes. The article was about you and your misguided mission.
My soul cringed as I read of your plans. Why would you go through with this scheme, if you know that many people could be injured or killed by your action? You say you are a Christian Reverend but your actions are completely contrary to the values you claim to live by. The message Jesus suffered for was not to blatantly step on other peoples values or cause harm to others. We as Christians are called to be Peace-Makers. You are to show yourself respectable to all eyes. To willingly and knowingly commit an act that could harm one person much less hundreds is not a Christian act.
Jesus calls on us to continually Love our brothers as well as enemies. Showing ourselves to be Long-suffering, Compassionate, Forgiving, and Peaceful is the meat of His teaching. Matthew 5:38-48 speaks directly about how we are to conduct ourselves in the name of Jesus. You may want to take a moment and read it. Your plan is starkly against the values He expects.
You say that the Quran incites violence in radical Muslims. And, unfortunately that may be true, but have you not given thought to all the atrocious acts carried out by so called Christians in the name of the Bible? If you believe it is okay for Muslims to burn the Bible because of all the horrific acts carried out today and down through the centuries in the name of Christianity, then go ahead and have your bonfire. However, if you do proceed, that only serves to show that you care nothing about that Book you claim to follow.
I pray that your eyes are opened and you decide not to go ahead with your actions. And, if you do, may the entire world see that you are truly doing this for yourself and are in no way representing my Savior.
And Dear Mr. Jones in the article it said that you asked the question, “How many times do we back down?” ARE YOU SERIOUS? Have you not even read the Bible? I could not believe my eyes when I read that question. That extremely foundational question was answered repeatedly in Jesus’ teaching. But, even with that, I don’t see where you can say you are backing down. What do you envision yourself from backing down from? You say this is in protest of 9/11, and the building of the mosque at ground zero. So, that would make this a retaliatory act and not an act of backing down. I realize the shock of the news of a mosque being erected there, but I don’t understand the religious spin that is being attached to it. The world trade center was and is not a Christian Holy place or Shrine. Many of the people who died there were of other Faiths or no Faith at all. People from all nations were in that structure. It was not a holocaust of Christians. It was a sad reality of how well Satan can manipulate the minds of men. But, no matter how tragic the World Trade Center Event was, it does not make it a Holy Shrine in Heaven. So for you to take action in the Name of God to “make a stand” on this situation is ludicrous. And it should be criminal for you to hold the fate of so many in your hands.
You also need to realize that for every person who is harmed from the result of your action you will be found guilty of. You are like a suicide bomber yourself, but worse. Your little fire could potentially and probably will launch more bullets, bombs, and terror around the world, that any fanatic who takes out an abortion clinic or two. Mr. Jones are you kin to Jim? Take a clue. He was wrong and so are you.
To all the world I would like to express that I am a Christian through and through. My Spirit is totally appalled with this situation. It saddens my soul that someone would act so treacherously in the name of Christianity. To me this poor man is lost and I pray for those who follow him. But, I pray an extra portion for him because according to my Bible his penalty will be great.
I know that my Abba Father has a plan bigger than any man can comprehend and He judges each man according to his heart. I thank him daily that for me Jesus died and I am a child of Grace. And, I know that no matter what this man, Mr. Jones, decides to do, in the end all things will be justified.
Always in Peace and Love
Christiansister
PS. In all honesty Mr. Jones I do not see the US Government letting you go through with this. You will probably suffer a bad accident and rightly so. But, who am I to say? The Devil may wind up with that day. I don’t really know. Many decisions must be made by many men to see if your day will pass Mr. Jones. I just Pray Maranatha!
Imam Rauf has denounced the burning of the Koran yet he still plans to go ahead with the construction of the Mosque at GZ!
I've said all along, if this Imam was really interested in building a bridge with Islam and the west he would acquiesce to the overwhelming opposition to the Mosque at that location and build it elsewhere. He wants this preacher in FL to do nothing that would inflame Muslim sensibilities, but he cares not about the sensibilities of Americans.
Now I wonder in light of the recent remarks by the Imam threatening violence UNLESS the Mosque is built in that exact location, if there is any doubt any longer about what this Mosque represents to the radical Muslim world or what the motive is behind the construction. I wonder will the left now talk about the wisdom of that decision?
I fully see where you're coming from and why you feel the way you do.
But, it's not at GZ, it's two blocks over and then down the street a little. You can go on youtube and find a video of a person standing at GZ and then walking to the Mosque so you can see exactly how far it is (if you don't live in NYC to go see for your self).
Either way, I've done some research and I'm getting numbers of 54%-61% of Americans oppose the building of the Mosque. I agree that if there is such an overwhelming opposition to something, it shouldn't happen. After all, we are a democracy, are we not?
However, property is property, is it not? Once the property is purchased (be it a building in NYC, or a pile of Quran's to burn), it is left up to the owner to decide what happens to it, right? Wait...wasn't buying a bunch of Quran's profiting the Muslims anyway? Hell, if someone wanted to burn a pile of books that I wrote, that's fine with me, as long as they bought them from me and not stole them or something (which would be largely immoral, would it not? Thou shalt not steal).
Unfortunately, once you've spent a large amount of money on something especially a building and construction, it's hard to stop the wheels once they're rolling.
Assuming that Imam Rauf has pure intentions, IE not trying to be offensive, wanting to build a bridge, etc. Half of America is upset, but he's already spent the money and it's difficult now to stop everything without him taking a huge loss that could financially ruin him, all for doing something with pure intentions. Then the whole Quran burning thing starts up, in response, and he doesn't like that. Let's assume he decides to make the offer to stop all building and go somewhere else, because he now has seen how upset Americans are, and that is the OPPOSITE of his intentions, so he takes the huge financial loss and moves on in life (I don't now how much money this guy has, maybe so much that it won't hurt him too much). But the Quran burning goes on anyway.
Now he's done as America asked, subdued to 54-61% of our's wishes, and yet, this Pastor can't back down now because he has his pride blinding him.
That's not fair at all.
Has the pastor said "I will not burn the Quran if you call off the Mosque"?
I can't address all your points but I can say the Imam doesn't have the funding to do anything yet and actually doesn't own all the property, some would have to be leased or bought from Con-Ed, so it's not too late to change his mind.
That said he has reiterated his plans to go ahead with the Mosque. He has also condemned the burning of the Koran by the Fl priest. He has also stated that the Koran burning may lead to violence. In addition, he has said that if he doesn't build the Mosque at the exact location as planned, that this would incite violence.
Now he is basically threatening America with violence unless we do as he says. Does this sound like a "peaceful" religion? Would America perform acts of violence against any nation that burned a bible or refused a church to be built on a site of the owner's choosing?
What I take away from this Imam is that his intentions aren't pure at all, that this Mosque is a victory Mosque a monument to death and destruction inflicted upon the "great Satan" America.
"I'm going to attack you" is a threat.
"They're going to attack you" is just making an observation.
The Pastor behind this event went on CNN last night to explain that he does NOT intend to burn Korans.
It was evidently a typo at the banner print shop that caused a misunderstanding.
He instead plans to "burn Koreans" (evidently he has been in a grumpy mood ever since M*A*S*H was taken off the air).
On a side note, the also denied rumors that Bin Laden has been hiding inside his mustache
Seems to me like this has been part of American Religious culture for a long time ... just consider the popular hymn below speaking of fire, souls etc. :
Burn baby burn! Burn baby burn! Burn baby burn! Burn baby burn!
Burnin'!
To mass fires, yes! One hundred stories high
People gettin' loose y'all gettin' down on the roof - Do you hear?
(the folks are flaming) Folks were screamin' - out of control
It was so entertainin' - when the boogie started to explode
I heard somebody say
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mama down
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mama down
Burnin'!
Satisfaction (uhu hu hu) came in the chain reaction
(burnin') I couldn't get enough, (till I had to self-destroy) so I had to
self destruct, (uhu hu hu)
The heat was on (burnin), rising to the top, huh!
Everybody's goin' strong (uhu hu hu)
And that is when my spark got hot
I heard somebody say
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mama down, yoh!
Burn baby burn! - Disco inferno!
Burn baby burn! - Burn that mama down
Burnin'!
Gainesville is full of college kids, being that it's a college town (I have friends that attend UF and I'm actually going to be up there this weekend for that reason, not because of the Koran thing).
But the outskirts of Gainesville are full of people like this guy who think "the south will rise again!!!" (yes, three !'s).
I've never heard him say he believes that, but if you have a mustache like that, you probably believe that. Yeah, I'm stereotyping this guy as much as Muslims are being stereotyped on this forum.
********************************************************
Do they have the right to burn Quran?
-Yes
Do I think it is ethical & morally acceptable?
-No
Does burning Quran going to solve ground zero Mosque issue?
-No
Does burning Quran going to worsen American relation with middle-east?
-Probably
How should the Muslims react to burning Quran?
-By peeing on Jesus' statue! EXCELLENT!!
That's okay. I don't need a statue of Jesus anyway, in order to worship Him. And I don't think He would be very happy about people making statues of Him anyway, unless it's for a Nativity scene or things like that.
I just hope they wouldn't show the actual occurrence. It would be gross to see grown men or women urinating in public, and against the laws of most Countries, I'd imagine...
Well, theres a statue almost in every church. So it wont be in public when the Church is empty
Rishy Rich,
LOL. (Really. I'm laughing).
Absolutely right. Those terrorists need a sense of humor!
Thanks,
Dan
Yeah...I would have lent mine(sense of humor) only if they asked for it.
CANCELLED!
There's a thread about it in the "Religion and Philosophy" forum.
Aaaaaand now it's back on.
What a flake this guy is.
“Islam and terrorism have nothing (and I repeat: nothing) to do with each other.” Daniel J. Neumann
Terrorist can do and say anything they want in the name of anything they choose.
They could say they did in the name of Christianity or Islam or no religion or humanity but the 'truth' about them sticks out like a sore thumb, they are not good and people should recognize them for their actions not the title they chose to attach to themselves.
Likewise, a Muslim could be very Christian a Christian can be very Muslim, an atheist can be very spiritual and a spiritualist could lack any sort of spirit whatsoever.
I say, let go of the names. It's not worth it to people to try and 'take back' the "good names" from those who have completely mutilated it beyond recognition.
But... if people persist in holding on to the name then what I ultimately see is people who are much too proud to let it go and just call it something else... actually I prefer to call it nothing at all and see people for the things that they actually do, not what they believe.
Because, if what you believe is good, then it will show and draw good near but if it is bad than people will stay clear.
For instance, I know what the Qu'ran says about people like me and I know what the Bible says about people like me but I don't care, it wouldn't stop me from being friends with good people because good is good and bad is bad.
Anyways, I am rambling...
A Peaceful Gnostic Atheist (I think I am at the top of the Qu'ran and Bible's hit list but whatever.)
Gnostic atheist? Do you know the meaning of Gnostic?
I was wondering the same.
Agnostic = will not agree nor deny existence of God.
Atheist = denies existence of God.
I give the meaning from Wikipedia:
Gnosticism (Greek: γνῶσις gnōsis, knowledge) refers to diverse, syncretistic religious movements in antiquity consisting of various belief systems generally united in the teaching that the material cosmos was created by an imperfect god, the demiurge with some of the supreme God's pneuma; this being is frequently identified with Yahweh, (as opposed to the Gospel according to the Hebrews) and is contrasted with a superior entity, referred to by several terms including Pleroma and Godhead.[1] Depictions of the demiurge—the term originates with Plato's Timaeus[2]—vary from being as an embodiment of evil, to being merely imperfect and as benevolent as its inadequacy permits. Gnosticism was a dualistic religion, influenced by and influencing Hellenic philosophy, Judaism (see Notzrim), and Christianity;[3] however, by contrast, later strands of the movement, such as the Valentinians, held a monistic world-view.[4] This, along with the varying treatments of the demiurge, may be seen as indicative of the variety of positions held within the category.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic
________________________________
That's not the true definition of Gnostic. Anyone can create a page on Wikipedia and enter definitions as they see it, I opened one myself but never wrote anything.
I can assure you, whoever wrote that on Wikipedia is wrong.
It is a source to start with; now you please improve upon it.
Thanks
I would suggest that Nicholas Bergs wife may disagree with you.
In respects to the quote, "Terrorism" is a broad term. Anyone can be a terrorist. The terrorists were are currently talking about happen to be Islamic militants.
But the term "Terrorism" does not mean Islam.
Can't CIA or FBI or NSA or some such acronym do something about the good pastor?
by thirdmillenium 7 years ago
Does Islam contain some doctrines that make it mandatory for all Muslims to kill/destroy/annihilate followers of other religions/atheists/agnostics? Some say it does. Some others say it was not originally in the text but had been stealthily inserted later by religious fanatics.
by paarsurrey 13 years ago
Hi friendsWe Muslims have three sources of Guidance:1. The first and the foremost source of Guidance is Quran authored by the Creator-God Allah YHWH, on the heart of Muhammad and it was memorized as soon as it was revealed by Muhammad and his companions. As an auxiliary measure it was...
by paarsurrey 9 years ago
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/42912#post996684Hi friendsAs requested by our friend AdeleCosgroveBray,in the above post, I start this thread.Ahmadiyya or who are sometimes called Ahmadi peaceful Muslims are those people who believe Muhammad as the Seal of the Prophets Messengers and who believe...
by cjhunsinger 8 years ago
As the President of the United States continues to refuse to identify on going acts of Islamic terrorism with Islam; is his refusal to do so a direct or tacit approval or support for the religion of Islam and Sharia law over the Constitution?The president of the United States has on several...
by andrew savage 10 years ago
Can someone who has studied Islamic literature/scripture explain that killing people for having different religious view is not okay in the Quran?
by Liberian1847 13 years ago
Even though I'm not Muslim however, I can't help but wonder if it is fair to hold all Muslims accountable for the deeds of other Muslims ( especially those extremist groups). Would'nt it be absurd to blame every living White man for the enslavement of Blacks? Or, do you call every German a...
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