Do you think posting here helps or hurts a writer's chance to publish?

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   Steele Fieldsposted 13 years ago

   Was wondering if you all think HubPages is a good networking tool for someone seriously seeking publication or whether it actually hurts your chances more than it helps them? ( some places will not accept submissions that have been published elsewhere)  Have any of you been published since you joined?

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      qwarkposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Steele:
      Don't know why it would hurt.
      The stuff you publish here isn't what you want to have professionally published is it?
      I'd think this would just be a place for practice and freedback.
      Just guessing.
      Qwark

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         Steele Fieldsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, i've posted a few mini-chapters from my novel and I've been trying to find an agent for the past few months.

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      Kavita Trivediposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think there are are so many talented writers and poets on here from all over the world. Some are newbies and some already are accomplished publisehd writers. I think it is great to network and to get feedback on your work in terms of helping you with your craft, style and presentation. Plus, there are all these contests that Hubpages create to help writers not only earn money, but help you gain recognition and advice.
      
      If you are really serious about publishing, I don't think anything can stop you. It's all about having self belief and talent at the end of the day

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      OldSkoolFoolposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Well it depends. I think it can help towards a reference portfolio but you certainly don't want to give the house away. If you truly feel something that you have written really deserves print publication, then certainly don't let it loose unless it's on your terms. However you can always write a variation of an original story or piece and by that token it's really not the same thing and you will still be able to present your choice piece later on!

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      starqueen13posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I believe you need to get your name out on the internet, so that way if you try to send in a story to a publisher they might look on the internet to see if you have ever published anything, it couldnt hurt. but becarefull about people stealing your work, always put copyright _Name__year_

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   Lora Palmerposted 13 years ago

   I think it could be a helpful place to network, practice and get feedback. I am hoping to publish the work in progress that I've posted several chapters of here, but the chapters can be removed if need be. At any rate, I'm planning to maybe post another chapter or two, and that's it. I'll also be posting more articles and short stories as well.

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3. 69

   lrohnerposted 13 years ago

   I don't know if it hurts your cred or not, but I'm pretty certain it doesn't help. It's only my opinion, but if you're looking for serious publication, I truly believe you should have some of your work on your own dedicated website. It not only focuses the attention on YOUR work, but it also shows prospective publishers that you are serious about what you do.
   
   The basic premise of HubPages is to make money. Whether you choose to participate in the affiliate marketing or not, Google ads (or ads from other networks) will be placed on the sidebars and HubPages will benefit from them.
   
   I know that HubPages does its best to make sure its content is decent, but have you seen some of the cr*p on here? I make a living as a freelance writer, and I would never, ever give my HubPages screen name to any potential client, agent or publisher, nor will it ever find its way onto my resume. No matter how polished (or not) my work is, anyone who takes a gander at some of the junk on here would know pretty quickly that it's a place for anyone with a keyboard. They don't even need to have a decent grasp of the English language.
   
   Sorry to make it sound so harsh, because there are some absolutely FABULOUS writers on here, and I mean no offense to you or any of them. And there have been a few writers here who have found some tremendous opportunities through HubPages. I just don't think it's the norm. Again, this is only my opinion, for what it's worth.

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      Steele Fieldsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No offense taken.  I agree with you 100%.  I've perused some of the offerings here and have been largely unimpressed (and in some cases slightly horrified, lol)  DO you know of any more discriminating blog sites or do you think starting your own site is the only intelligent choice?

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         lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Most of the writers I know have started their own. That's not to say that they don't post on other sites, though. They just make sure to have their dedicated site for publishers and agents. I can post in another forum to see other places they may post. I do know there are a lot of freelance writers that are active in the WAHM.com forums. Maybe you should post there and ask?
         
         You can buy a domain name for $10/year or less. Blogger is free and you can use your domain name with it, or you can go the WordPress route. With WP, you would also need to pay for hosting--maybe $7/month or so.
         
         If you don't know how to set up the blog, get onto Guru.com or eLance.com and I'm sure you can get someone for $25 or less to set it up for you.

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            Steele Fieldsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks for your help, lrohner.

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4. 0

   Website Examinerposted 13 years ago

   There is a great community of fiction writers here on HubPages. I have written some hubs about the pros/cons of writing serial fiction online. We have manuscript critiques, lots of advice and possibilities to get connected.

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   ryankettposted 13 years ago

   The most likely reason why people hurt their chances of finding work through Hubpages is their tendancy to drift swiftly towards sales pages soon after realising that this is where the big money can most easily be found (directly).
   
   I had 5 hubpages published in print magazines, something which simply will not happen now that I write content which is about as far removed from that style of writing as possible. I now write sales copy pretty much exclusively, and am therefore an 'Affiliate Marketer' rather than a writer. I don't mind though.
   
   I do have ambitions to write a book, I would suggest that the quality of the manuscript would win through rather than anything you have done online. Posting a manuscript, or any part of a manuscript, online is stupid and could seriously damage your chances. Instead, you need to be undertaking a different type of posting... the mailbox kind of posting... to publishers...

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      Steele Fieldsposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I obviously know nothing about how Hub Pages works because I blocked all the advertising figuring it took away from the content.  I have no clue about big money or sales pages-- you are talking Greek to me, lol.  You are probably right about the novel.  I will probably remove the blurbs I posted from my manuscript.

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6. 61

   paradigmsearchposted 13 years ago

   "Do you think posting here helps or hurts a writer's chance to publish?"
   
   Always helps. Believe it!

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      Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Seems we're in the minority so far - you, Lora Palmer, and myself.

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         Deerwhispererposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I think that hubpages might be a great way to get started in writing. Then after you start making a little money you can publish your serious stuff elsewhere. Or at least that's what I plan to do.

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7. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   I don't using my writing pen name here.  That is just a matter of branding.  My science writing, my novel writing, is not commercial or 'content' writing.  Hubpages does not, IMHO, project the image of 'serious, commerically published writer'.

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8. 83

   psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

   Look at it this way.  If I am approaching a major advance-paying publisher, do I want them to know that I am willing to write for what equates to a fraction of a cent per word? Is that the image their want their potentially best-selling author to have?

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      Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      You don't have to tell them anything. That shouldn't prevent you from using HubPages to get feedback on your writing. Just don't post what you intend to submit elsewhere.

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      ryankettposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The average properly published fiction book (not self-published) will result in a royalty payment to the writer of just £8000 ($12000) in total, meaning that most will have to write and publish 2 books a year just to eat and heat properly if it is their sole source of income.
      
      I will make more than that through my Hubpages over the next 12 months alone, without publishing a single new hubpage. I hope that puts paid to this popular misconception.

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         Deerwhispererposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I like your attitude. In this day and age I don't think it really matters where you make your money, and if you can do it on hubpages that's better than not making anything at all in my opinion.

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      ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I think it depends. If you're writing fiction, then the strength of your story and the market that's out there is the determinant of your success. the interest generated in Hubpages is a platform. If you write crap, then you have a platform for crap. If you write good material then you have proof that there is interest in your subject matter. Have you guys seen the crap of self-published material that's out there for sale? Lots of crap too. Lots of crap in published material as well...crap everywhere.
      
      The fact is, the world is full of crap and its not really where you put the work that matters. It's what you say and how you say it.  You get traffic in a particular topic and there you go. Now you have proof that there is a market for what you are writing about. That you have people who are eager to read your work. You can use hubpages and your real name in order to be present in google, to have something that's out there. I was a travel columnist and that's not what I want to write about anymore. Hubpages gets my name out there for certain topics that I would normally not even have any association with.
      
      How can that not help? I am commercially published and I have been writing for 15 years.  I don't think it hurts to have a place to test a book idea and gain readership here. You could write some boring stuff in the university press but that won't help you get published if you don't have a market and a platform...meaning, if you don't have fans.

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   Polly Cposted 13 years ago

   I'm pretty sure that major publishers and agents are not keen on taking on work which has been published elsewhere, unless it is already a success.
   
   But in any case, I doubt agents and publishers of novels spend time looking on the internet for new writers - they get hundreds of submissions a week and can afford to be extremely picky.

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      Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with both of these points. But there can be other benefits, such as help with making the manuscript much stronger prior to submission. Seems pretty obvious.

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10. 83

    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    I am not saying don't publish hubs, I am saying don't use the same name you use for commercial book-based publishing.  It isn't the right look and and won't make a good impression when a potential agent or publisher googles you name. 
    
    Most writers have different incomes streams and they work best if you keep them separate, regardless of which is most profitable for a given writer.  (In my case that would be ebooks>print nonfiction>my websites>hubpages).
    
    In any case, when someone wants my text book I want them to google my pen name name for that book and find that book.  When they want my romance fiction they google that name and find those novels.  I don't want someone poised and ready to buy my book to land on hubpages and possibly buy something else instead.  So instead of a book sale I get a 10 cent adsense comission....

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11. 69

    lrohnerposted 13 years ago

    I completely agree with you, PS. IMHO, HP is a place to have some fun and make a little spare change--not the place to launch a serious writing career. And pen names should be SOP in this age of the Internet.
    
    Polly--I agree with you that publishers don't go looking on the Internet for writers. But when they are considering one, you can bet that the very first thing that they do is Google the writer's name to make sure they're not taking on anyone with skeletons in the closet.

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       Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       SOP?  Just curious, also, about what skeletons...meaning murder or something like that? lol  It seems to me just about anyone can do just about anything these days...especially someone like the octomom.

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12. 83

    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    "standard operating procedure"

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       Rafiniposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       ooohh, ty.

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    Lisa HWposted 13 years ago

    The stuff I do for "real" work is written under a different name.  If some potential client/employer ever wanted to be bothered (and I can see how a serious background check could turn it up), and somehow figured out that I'm writing online like this; I wouldn't see it as the end of the world - but I sure as heck wouldn't use my online writing (on here or similar sites) for anything but other online writing sites (which sometimes require applying and showing examples of other online writing).
    
    I have clips/samples from print, though.  That's what I use in my "real" endeavors.  The name I use professionally is my legal name.
    
    The way I see it, though (and maybe I'm wrong - I don't know); but if I use one name for my "real" work and another name for online, spare-time, writing; that's kind of like playing tennis or being an amateur photographer in my spare time.  If some potential client, employer, or anyone else "serious" were to dig up that I'm on here, too bad. It would show that I use my free time for writing instead of, say, watching television or knitting.    In other words, I don't spin my wheels over keeping my online writing a deep, dark, secret; but I don't broadcast it either. 

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14. 83

    nighthagposted 13 years ago

    Some publishers take a dim view on self publication, yet require even new authors to have some self promotion in place.
    
    the best advice i have gotten is to have your own web page or blog dedicated to your work as an " author"
    
    I am personally using hub pages to find my internet legs before taking this very advice.
    
    But when in doubt check the guildlines of the publishers that you would like to print your work. this can be inforamtion can normally be found at thier websites or my contacting them via email. read over any Question and answer pages they may have,
    
    Good luck

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       Deerwhispererposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I, like you, am using hubpages as a way to gain experience, not only in writing, but in advertising because you can write all the books you want, but if you want to sell them (especially if you plan to self publish like me), you need to know how to advertise, and boy I'm learning a lot about that, thanks to hubpages.

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15. 83

    nighthagposted 13 years ago

    forgive my spelling mistakes
    children + keyboard = mistakes sorry

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16. 67

    Jed Fisherposted 13 years ago

    Steel Fields, I percieve Hub Pages as a writer's community and feel that exposure here as a writer can't possibly be a bad thing. I used a pen name to post some literary work on here. What I got from Hub Pages was excellent critical review and encouragement, after which I deleted the hubs and closed the account.
    I had two reasons for doing that. I wanted to post hubs under my actual name, and I wanted to change generas to creative non-fiction; specificly, "How to Do It Yourself" type stuff.
    Eventually I will post a hub about how to publish a novel as a Kindle E-book on Amazon, right after I do that.

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    gwennies penposted 13 years ago

    I think writing on any internet site gives one the chance to get noticed, and their work.  It seems to be a given, as I don't feel it would hurt anyone.  It would seem merely a plus to me.

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    Michael Ray Kingposted 13 years ago

    I find thes interesting - while the traditional publishing industry is collapsing faster than IBM in the 1980's, AND while traditional publishers are paying mere cents-per-book to an author "fortunate" to get an agent and "FORTUNATE" to get published (after the manuscript is a few years old), AND the new author MUST promote his/her own work at his/her own expense, authors still clamor for traditional publishers for the "validation".
    
    A good small press OR a sharp author can produce a book inexpensively AND professionally edited (there are plenty of professional editors out there)and make dollars per book. This isn't sci-fi.
    
    And that vanity argument is now moot folks. Pandora opened that digital box and now publishing is available to everyone. And think about it. If you write a book and send it to a publisher, what are you saying? This book is crap but please publish it??? No. You are stating upon submission of your work, that you believe it to be viable, well-written and valuable to the reading public. Is there not a touch of vanity there?
    
    I'm not saying digital printing hasn't muddied the waters of quality. A statement like that would be ludicrous. But the industry is moving toward a 'market' driven determination of what is valuable writing.
    
    Publishers Weekly just announced that McMillan is sending its ENTIRE backlist to Ingram's Lightning Source. That's POD folks, and they're not the first major publisher to use a form of POD.
    
    So you ask if Hub Pages will hurt or help your publishing quest. You determine that. There are many people making money on Hub Pages, many more making money through self-publishing, many more making money through small press publishing and there's even writers making money through 'vanity' presses (oh how I hate the double standard of that label...).
    
    If money is not a measure of your publishing goals and all you want is 'validation' from a traditional press, you better hurry. They are collapsing as we speak. They are ill-equiped to compete in the emerging markets just like IBM. Is IBM still around? Absolutely. Does IBM control the same share of market they once held? No.
    
    If you've defined traditional publishing as the only way for you, and you fear hurting your chances, then shy away. My opinion is that any writing is good for an author. Hub Pages is an incredible community of writers. Is everyone the best writer in the world? No. I like how the community here is supportive, give great feedback and offer suggestions to each other freely.
    
    If getting published is a major goal, realize that once that goal is set, writing becomes a business. Having a solid community of thousands that network daily could be beneficial to your work. Also, if I write a great article that fits a magazine's needs for their readership, only editors with their heads stuck in 20th Century sands would turn it down because of Hub Pages articles. This is a great place to hone your craft.
    
    There's an element of the publishing establishment that wants to keep things mired in the eighties and nineties. They will be brushed aside, sooner than later, like it or not.

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    I find that traditional publishing is still by far the most profitable option either per hour or per word.  It is still a major industry and provides the upper end of the writing salaries.  Even lower end epublishing through a publisher can pay out pretty well compared to content writing like Hubpages when you look at it on a per hour or per word basis.
    
    The way I see it traditional publishing is rocks and content writing is sand.  To build the best income I put the rocks in the jar first, and fill in the gaps with sand--not the other way around.  (Also relatives are more impressed by books from publishers they have heard of and so desist and requesting one to get a 'real job'   ).

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       ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       you still need a platform and even literary agents are now encouraging writers to get their name out there and a readership online.
       
       The publishing business is not a skill business, that's just a consequence of having many aspirants. The best one end up taking over the place. It is mainly a money making enterprise. They are not going to publish an expert (as there are plenty of them) without a quantifying number of people who religiously hang on to his word.
       
       Hubpages is a great opportunity to quantify interest.

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       lrohnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       Good analogy, PS. The problem is, a lot of people look at sites like HP, Associated Content, Helium, Squidoo, Triond, Constant Content, Buzzle and the like as being less than sand. When it is so simple and inexpensive to create your own website, I'm not sure why someone would use HP as a way to promote themselves. Test ideas, make some money, have some fun--yes, yes and yes. But not as a site to promote their work.

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          ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          If you send traffic down your path, you promote yourself.
          
          Getting 10 or 3 more people a day to look at your website because of something you wrote is not a bad thing.
          
          Hubs and a website as well as twitter, facebook and all the other sites that increase your reach all help.
          
          More on platform and how hubpages can help
          <link snipped, no promotional links>

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    I think a platform helps, but is not absolutely necessary, for non-fiction writing (in my case an advanced degree in a relevant area was enough--no web presence). 
    
    For fiction, most of the debut authors being announced on Publishers lunch have little or no web presence, maybe a blog.  Having a presence the publisher doesn't like can be more of a problem than not having one at all.
    
    If the goal is mainstream publishing IMHO content writing is not the right look in most cases.  And own-domain .com site is more likely to hit the right note.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       And how is business without a platform, would you say the publishing house is helping you in any dramatic way? Just curious.
       
       I have friends who have no platform who did nonfiction and it was because the market for the story is on the rise. Market is everything.

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          psycheskinnerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I don't really understand what you mean.  My non-fiction book helped me by earning me money.  I don't have a business other than being a writer.  Yes, market is (almost) everything. Thus in most cases 'platform' is (almost) nothing.  Some books are acquired on the basis of the writers platform, but most are bought primarily based on the manuscript or proposal.

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             ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             Hmm...a platform is a market ready to buy what you stand for. I am now confused. If you say market is everything and platform is nothing.
             
             A platform is the market, the way you connect to that market.  A manuscript is judged by its relevance to the market, its new-ness. and if it resonates...that's all market. You can have a masterpiece that only the smarty pants will get. If that's not even 1% of the pie, what is the point?
             
             http://www.suite101.com/content/buildin … orm-a18073
             
             I am happy to hear you are a working author. But I am a little disappointed that you discourage people who are writers in hubpages from writing here. You are a working author are you not? You are not a loser are you not? Then why look down on the members of this community. It is just not cool to camp here if you don't want to be seen here.

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    ceciliabeltranposted 13 years ago

    I think the best way to do it, is to write, write well and be conscious of your readership. Respond to them, people have been published before and made money with less. If you think its shameful to be associated with something, don't associate with it. Hubpages is just a collection of writers who want to write all the time. You make the crowd, the crowd does not make you.

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       Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I checked out your hubs, couldn't find any stories or anything that looks like a book project. Do you speak from experience, or is it merely a theory of yours?

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          ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          If you want the skinny on my mouth, check my website. That's my real name. Google me. I would be item no. 1. ( I am actually wondering why you didn't do this first since you are...WEBSITE EXAMINER, a we and not an I)
          You are free to disregard my offer of knowledge. You are also free to disagree.
          
          But I've had experience being signed on, being published, being rejected. Been a writer for so long. I am just sharing my own breakthroughs so that those who are just starting won't have to make the mistakes or the assumptions I did and will benefit from the guidance I got from successfully published writers (meaning those who actually exceeded the 10,000 copies sold). They too have their own issues (didn't get the oprah chair because bush did this ,did that...bitch bitch bitch, or wrote 80,000 words and random house wants it cut short this to this, I already got the signing gift from the publishing house, don't want to leave my kid, second thoughts blah blah blah... I personally want their problems)
          
          We're all just sharing what we know so we won't have time to posture around in forums, because we are busy writing our second bestseller.
          
          In my decades experience as a creative person,  the real challenge is getting the vision out that resonates.

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             Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             We are on HubPages here. You are posting here as a Hubber. I would not expect most other people to visit your personal website, since that is not what HubPages is about. Therefore, I do not think that my "examination" of your personal website would have been relevant to this discussion.

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                ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                but you asked for my book project and looked for it in hubs. It's not there...it's in my website. my hubs are there to measure reactions to certain ideas.

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    Website Examinerposted 13 years ago

    Thanks Ceciliabeltran, I neither disregard anything you have said, nor disagree. Each person must find their own path, make what will hopefully be informed choices. But it was helpful to get a little more about the background for your perspective.

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       ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       It is just important for me to send the message out there that the writers here are not losers. If you think they are, why are you here?
       
       We make Hubpages prestigious with our own work and caliber. It does not make us.
       
       I really disagree that there is such a thing as trying to associate with the already prestigious and dissociating from the tribe you willingly put yourself into.  All this boils down to how you really see yourself.

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          Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

          I don't particularly appreciate your tone. I spend about 50% of my time on HubPages to help fiction writers with getting exposure, promoting their writing, and hopefully eventually get published. My very first post on this thread makes my perspective quite clear.

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             ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

             I was speaking about the general theme of posts above saying this is not the place for serious writers. I am a serious writer, and I know a lot of serious writers who are here. So I don't know about my tone. But if you are helping writers get published, why are we disagreeing? Are we?
             
             There is no need to imagine slight where there is none. But I'm not the one asking for your credentials for a comment in a forum.

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                Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                I don't think that we are disagreeing at all. Have a nice day!

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                   ceciliabeltranposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                   have a nice day as well and good luck on getting more published through hubpages.

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                      Website Examinerposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                      Thanks!

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    Scribenetposted 13 years ago

    These are great comments pro and con! I do like the fact two "real" authors,Michael Ray King and Cecilia Beltran say it can't hurt. In my opinion from all the books I have ever read on writing (and there are a few on my shelves), the very first thing all established writers say you must do in order to become an established writer is write thousands of words first before you ever get published...
    
    Writing Hubs serves the purpose of accomplishing a goal towards that writing goal...  unless you just try to sell stuff and that is another story...so to each his/her own. Each of us determines our own purpose for being here! What we want to do with our writing will determine our outcome!

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    psycheskinnerposted 13 years ago

    A 'platform' is a term developed in non-fiction but now used in a very confusing way in relation to all writing.  Most people now seem to think it means having a newsletter or being spread all over the internet like a cult.  I tend to avoid the word because it means different things to different people. 
    
    My non-fiction book work depends on being an neutral academic expert.  So heavy self-promotion could actually harm that 'platform' (I should not be seen as biassed or self-promoting as my role is as a neutral arbiter fo a complex issue).  I make people come to me, and they do.  So branding often involves almost none of the tenants of so-called platform building.
    
    There is no single mantra that will work for every book/agent/publisher.  But I think that maintaining different pen names for different types of material allows each type to be more effectively placed and promoted.  If you only write material for one audience, fine.  But if you don't, you want to channel them to their soft sell material not let them wander off into other areas.

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       Eiddwenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

       I am happy for anyone to know that i write here on HP. If I do decide to try and send some work to a publisher one day then I have no qualms about them finding out that I have published work on here. To me Hp is a bonus, it has worked wonders for my self confidence and I am learning something new each day. Also I would be happy to admit that I do spend all the time that I can writng, which would show dedication. At this moment I am totally happy with the work that I am doing on HP all of which has been nothing but benefit.

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    triosolposted 13 years ago

    why it would hurt? Such great network. good platform to interact with each other. I am loving it

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