“Unconditional election” of the savior: What and Why?

1. 52

   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   “God (the Christian, biblical concept of God) saves who he will and damns who he will, and people have no part in this at all. There is no free will when it comes to election.” Courtesy Anesidora
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/52292?page=6
   
   Christians! Please explain with reference to and from words of Jesus; please don’t add any words into the mouth of Jesus, let him give reasons of wisdom from his own self, if any.

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      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The problem with this is .... jesus never wrote even a single word. Not ever.

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      1. 52

         paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

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         1. 65

            aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            That was such a short reply!
            Zero, in fact.
            Does this mean you have nothing to say? After all, it is your questions I answered.

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            1. 52

               paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               I just wanted to highlight the comments made by earnestshub who wrote:
               
               "The problem with this is .... jesus never wrote even a single word. Not ever."
               
               Thanks

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      2. 69

         aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Judging by what you write, He was a good judge of character, for you do nothing except snipe at His words.

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      3. 69

         aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         ...and besides, you are wrong and trying to deceive yet again...
         
         John 8:6-8 (Amplified Bible)
         
         6This they said to try (test) Him, hoping they might find a charge on which to accuse Him. But Jesus stooped down and wrote on the ground with His finger.
         
         However, when they persisted with their question, He raised Himself up and said, Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.
         
         Then He bent down and went on writing on the ground with His finger.
         
         The Pharisees, just like you, then disappeared when they saw what He had written.

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         1. 52

            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            These were not words written by Jesus; it is a narration ascribed to John.

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2. 65

   aka-djposted 13 years ago

   "Whosdoever comes to Me, I will in no wisw cast out" .. Jesus
   
   "Come unto Me all you who labor, and I will give you rest"..Jesus
   
   "For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten son, so that WHOSOEVER believes in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life"..Jesus
   
   "I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father (God)but by me"...Jesus
   
   That's just four off the top of my head. Will that do?

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   1. 79

      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      He did not say any of it.
      
      Someone said that he said it, that is another matter altogether.

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         aka-djposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         I chosse to believe it is an accurate account of His words.
         That is good enough for me. I know you don't accept it, and that also is good enough for me.

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3. 65

   aka-djposted 13 years ago

   Another error you make is that God condemns.
   
   "In addition, the Father judges no one. Instead, he has given the Son absolute authority to judge," again Jesus (John 5;22)
   
   If you choose to believe in Jesus according to the scriptures, God CANNOT condemn you. He would be unjust and UNRIGHTEOUS to do so. Because....
   
   "Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son." (John 3;18)

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4. 79

   earnestshubposted 13 years ago

   Man is justified by faith alone Rom 3:20 Gal 2:16 Gal 3:11,12 Rom 4:2
            
   Man is not justified by faith alone James 2:21,24 Rom 2:13
      
   It is impossible to fall from grace John 10:28/ Rom 8:38,39
   
   It is possible to fall from grace Ezek 18:24/ Heb 6:4-6, 2 Pet 2:20,21
        
   No man is without sin 1 Kings 8:46/ Prov 20:9/ Eccl 7:20/ Rom 3:10
   Christians are sinless 1 John 3: 9,6,8
   

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5. 67

   alternate poetposted 13 years ago

   I thought in the novel that Jeebus never had an election ?  not even with that Mary Magdelene who was a winner.  Maybe it was all the fault of the typeshitters on the printing mess.

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   1. 79

      earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      

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6. 52

   Myloloposted 13 years ago

   The original question was never answered, was it? Election?
   All too fimiliar with it, have my own thoughts on it but not about to debate.  Would like to see and read what the majority of thoughts are - hoping it will be well thought out and presented.

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   1. 52

      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      No "Christian" seems to be in a mood to write anything on it; in fact they don't have anything written by Jesus or dictated by him, so they are silent.

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7. 60

   Anesidoraposted 13 years ago

   http://www.gotquestions.org/unconditional-election.html
   
   First result of the search unconditional election verses.
   
   I scanned through, it has at least the major ones. I'll just post one passage, cause I try not to spend too much of my time on this stuff these days.
   
   Rom. 9:10-24 Not only that, but Rebekah’s children had one and the same father, our father Isaac. 11 Yet, before the twins were born or had done anything good or bad—in order that God’s purpose in election might stand: 12 not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”d 13 Just as it is written: “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”e
   
   14 What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15 For he says to Moses,
   
   “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
   
   and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.”f
   
   16 It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy. 17 For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: “I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth.”g 18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
   
   19 One of you will say to me: “Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?” 20 But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? “Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, ‘Why did you make me like this?’ ”h 21 Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?
   
   22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24 even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?
   
   
   
   If you've read the Bible, or the story of Pharaoh which is refered to in the above passage, then you will know that it says repeatedly throughout each stage of the pestilence and plagues which were visited upon Egypt by God that God hardened Pharaoh's heart.
   
   I only add that to clarify the reference in the passage, but it's the same as the Judas story really. There are no bad guys, according to the Bible.
   
   The standard christian cop-out by the free-willers who don't want to admit the truth about what the Bible says is that God predestines based on foreknowledge, but as you read the passage above and all the other passages referred to on the webpage I linked, you see this cannot be so, especially in the several verses from varying writers in both the old and new testaments where it specifically says 'through no merit of their own' or such.
   
   So then if foreknowledge doesn't work they say we all lived before and participated in Satan's rebellion, thereby having chosen our sides, and God predestines us in this life based on that one. Making the whole damned thing pretty much moot and repetitious, but sure they have ridiculous explanations for that as well.
   
   
   
   What you have -either way- is a religiously duped people who are all too ready to write off life and the rest of us at the same time because after all their god has it all figured out. And Paarsurrey your brand-name religion isn't any better, and it's just as ridiculous.
   
   Must take a lot of balls and brains to constantly attack someone else's religion instead of looking too closely at your own, which was spawned from the same dumb sources.

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   1. 52

      paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      I don't agree with you.
      
      Which verse of Quran you refer to? Please quote the text of the verse and try to understand its meaning  from the context; some verses preceding and some following.
      
      The prove your point.
      
      Thanks

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8. 61

   skipper112posted 13 years ago

   paar just admitted on another blog site that Jesus was RESURRECTED to be RESURRECTED first you MUST BE DEAD so Jesus died on the cross paar just said so

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      libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      HE HE!

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9. 52

   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   I just wanted to highlight the comments made by earnestshub who wrote:
   
   "The problem with this is .... jesus never wrote even a single word. Not ever."

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   1. 61

      skipper112posted 13 years agoin reply to this

      oh my friend paar,
      How can you lie straight in bed, you quote three Gods God (CHRISTIAN) Allah ( MUSLIM) YHWH ( JEWISH) are you hegeing your bets and following all 3 Gods, if you only follow one which  God do you follow?
      Why Quote 3 Gods if you only follow one God Paar?
      REMEMBER PAAR YOU HAVE QUOTED JESUS SO WHY THIS RUBBISH NOW???

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10. 61

    skipper112posted 13 years ago

    paar's POST CLOSED NO DEBATE FROM PAAR
    NO QUESTIONS EVER ANSWERED SO NO DEBATE
    POST CLOSED

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