God's plan says what?

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Stump Parrishposted 13 years ago
I have heard that god has a preconcieved plan for mankind that provides for everything. Your entire life was planned before the world was designed, right? If a child is born with a birth defect it was planned for. If a father rapes his child, it was planned for by god, (see Christine O'Donnell's testimony concerning abortion). If a person was born a homosexual, god planned for the holier than thou christians to claim it is a sin...Unless it is a christian preacher practicing the homosexual acts on children. A man has sex with an underage girl and it is considered statatory rape, If it is a christian preacher having sex with an underage boy it's considered a homosexual act and the rapist gets off with a my bad god.

I hope I didn't offend any holier than thou sensibilities with a thought that came from somewhere other than the bible.
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...what about us wommmmmennnnnn?....nothing?.......that's good!...oh yea forgot lesbians and having that baby...and rape and all that ......
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Haven't you accepted the fact that since you were born a woman you have even less right than a homosexual? God made it clear that you are nothing more than a piece of property that was created to as a receptacle for the sperm of your superior, man? I'll bet that if a lesbian stated they desired an abortion you would have numeruos christian churches bidding for the bright to pay for it. Of course I was assuming the lesbian wasn't raped by her father which falls under the blanket of acceptable christian behaivior.
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ....good to know....i just get tired of being condemned for being a woman!....that's all.....it is really tiring...
  
  But, women rule! we're around for the long haul.............everyone needs to get used to it!
  
  ...wanna go for a mbike ride SP?
  
  Later..........
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't tease me, I am trying to put together a 48 state mbike ride for cancer. I would love to ride the roads you know with you. The chance to experience the world thru anothers perspective is too enticing to resist. It's going to take me a year to discover this country from the back roads. I would welcome a guide and a chance to make a new freind.
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  hey...i think it'd be fun....you're going to take a long time....i've zoomed through most of the US myself, except for most of Texas, Georgia, Alabama, Louisianna, S Carolina......next summer I hope to tackle those states.
  
  the back roads are so fine!
  
  I'd love to go...believe me!...and the purpose is a good one.
  
  I did a bicycle ride for ovarian cancer - 750 km.....not as far...but it was a good ride.
  
  motorcyle ride would be a blast!
  
  I've travelled through most of Canada too! am Canadian...
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I've seen this country from the interstates as a truck driver, I want to experience this country from the back roads. I have a feeling I am going to do this from a tent as I have no idea how to raise the 2000 dollars I need to buy a camper that I can sell. How I do it doesn't matter. Whether or not I can finish this doesn't matter. What matters is that I said to hell with society and common sense and went for it. Just the ramblings of a baby eating atheist and according to public opiunion should be discarded due to the fact that it isan atheist attempting it. I would like to merntion that I have 3 churches so far that are willing to help if they can. Imagine that, churches are willing to help an atheist, OMG trhe world must be coming to an end, lol. I just joinedf the international brotherhood of motorcyclecampers and they say they can offer a nationwide network of members that will allow me to pitch a tent. This removes a huge portion of my expenses for this trip. Seriously, I am hoping to meet as many of my internet friends as is realisticcaly possible. Hers;s the deal, if youy provide me with a place to pitch a tent and show me two of your favorite places in your area. I will cook you what should be one of the top five meals you have had the pleasure of consuming. If my meal doesn't meet those expectations, I'll do the dishes. What do you have to loose?
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...i'm in Canada SP....i'd connect with the motorcycle clubs too....they tend to be pretty friendly folks.....bike people are the greatest....
  
  of course the church folk would help you out...they always do....my experience anyway...charitable stuff i do......
  
  I'd love to show you a few places....wrong country though........
  
  ....there's nothing to loose.....keep me up to date on what you are up to..and the plans....k?....i'm def. curious....just don't preach anything to me...and we're good to go!...but bring the bike....
  
  I've been on these threads for waayyyyyy too long tonite...have to sleep....
  
  .
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'll be running along the border of our countries for quite awhile. I hope to be in Washington by June of this year. I will need to be heading into New England no later than September to make it back home before it gets to cold for a whimpy American to camp by himself. I am trying to do this 48 state run on a 1981 Kawaskai KZ440 Ltd. I am still living life as if today were the next to last day of my life. I am saving the last day for some real old fashioned hell raising. Figure I need to ease my way into my final stop on this road to whatever we are all travelling to.Peace my friend and thanks again for reminding me why I am alive...the off chance that a stranger can make each day worth living is something too many people never realize.
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  BTW, if the republicans win a majority in this up coming election cycle, I have declared that I will be moving to Canada. I'll need a tour guide to help me find the best place for a thinker to live. Any thoughts?
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  chandru009posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  His plan is this: Convince everyone he exists, because denial of it causes really weird things to happen. Once the message has been released, accepted, even befoer it is understood, things will begin to change. It will happen quickly, but maybe not overnight...but it could be. Like a theif in the night.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Would you like to know the message? My brother Jesus will back me up. No Joke.
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  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  yes, this "pre-destined" stuff is a contradiction with the whole "free-will" concept
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Simply amazing how being a christian preacher means that those you rape are simply being blessed with god's love.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  We're predestined to have free will ... either that or we've chosen to be predestined, I don't remember which
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  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  neither predestined nor free-will are in the bible?
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Both doctrines are conclusion that are not simply supported by all scripture, but are based on specific interpretations of specific passages.
  
  The free will doctrine is called Arminianism from the Dutch theologean Jacobus Arminius ...
  
  The predestination doctrine is called Calvinism, from the French theologian Jean Calvin.
  
  Most of us are in between ... For me, I'd say it something like this in this vastly over-simplified model:
  
  It is predestined that the sun will come up tomorrow because God set the conditions upon which the universe operates. I choose to eat eggs for breakfast. I make an uniformed choice and eat bad eggs so I'm predestined to get sick. This sickness is not perfect and therefore "sin by choice". This is not a moral choice or an evil choice, simply a bad choice and not my "fault". (Sin, to me is imperfection, not always moral failure.) See my hub re: Greatest Sin
  
  Things that are "predestined" are either inevitable by natural law or by divine plan. Free will is how we react to those things that are inevitable. Our choices lead to actions that impact our physical, psychological and social environment which in many cases lead to inevitable consequence.
  
  I expand that model to include spiritual, emotional, psychological, social, moral and ethical realities. And mixed within all of this is a wonderfully complex God that does not easily fit into anybody's religious or scientific model.
  
  When I say I believe "Nothing is impossible" what I actually mean is that the reality is too vast for me to be 100% certain of what is and is not possible.
  
  At some point, in order to deal with life, We all HAVE to oversimplify because we are not equipped to deal with the full range of reality.
  
  When I look at the whole picture I see a pattern and a purpose and it's not simple but it is exciting.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ephesians 2:10 (Amplified Bible)
  
  For we are God's [own] handiwork (His workmanship), [a]recreated in Christ Jesus, [born anew] that we may do those good works which God predestined (planned beforehand) for us [taking paths which He prepared ahead of time], that we should walk in them [living the good life which He prearranged and made ready for us to live].
  
  Just for the record.
  
  John
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So much for free will.
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep, guess you could have a point there, except think about it, if our lives are predestined, then you can TRY to do whatever you want and still end up where you were predestined to be.... just maybe have a rough ride getting there?
  
  Or maybe God, knowing your decisions before you even make them (as He has seen the movie's ending already) just predestines you any way, knowing the choices you will determine to make.
  
  Wow, this gets tricky huh!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not tricky it all, it's quite clear. The entire concept of biblical predestination and free will is a blatant contradiction. It isn't any more clear than that.
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  Disappearingheadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is a good point. The church has never been able to reconcile that apparent contradiction between pre-destination and freewill.Don't ask me, I don't know. Next time some tells you God is going to use you as firewood to keep His feet warm, you might want to remind them of this conumdrum.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  agree
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have freewill right now. You have chosen not to take the path which God predestined for all of us. Free will mean choices. What do you mean by your statement?
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  aguasilverposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hi WoC,
  
  It's 2am where I am so I'm off to bed, leaving you to take over!
  
  Have fun and preach it sister!
  
  John
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  A dictionary will answer your question, look up the word "predestined" and you will see the concept of free will or choices is not contained therein.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your statement was, " So much for free will". I was referring to this, and also explained what free will means. I never stated that choices were contained with predestined. I will not waste time with you. You are a truly a master of twisting words. Have a nice day.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, but you did no such thing.
  
  Neither is free will.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Not to be argumentative ! I have read where God was talking to a particular person and told them that THEY were predestined to perform a particular task... but I do not remember reading that everyone was predestined to do any particular things besides living life according to the rules??
  
  Like, King Cyrus, or Alexander the Great, or some of the prophets etc, Yes I can see where their destiny would have been established before they were formed in the womb, but everyone?
  
  As I said. not to argue, I just don't remember reading that everyone's destiny was preordained.??
  Maybe I just didn't understand those verses correctly!!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here you go, Jerami. This makes it clear as to what Paul considered as far as predestination and the lack of free will.
  
  "Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion. So then it is not of him that willeth, nor of him that runneth, but of God that sheweth mercy. For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, Even for this same purpose have I raised thee up, that I might shew my power in thee, and that my name might be declared throughout all the earth. Therefore hath he mercy on whom he will have mercy, and whom he will he hardeneth. Thou wilt say then unto me, Why doth he yet find fault? For who hath resisted his will? Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why hast thou made me thus? Hath not the potter power over the clay, of the same lump to make one vessel unto honour, and another unto dishonour?"
  
  —Romans 9:14-21 (KJV)
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The only thing that I got out of these verses is that it says that God raised him up; put him in the place of power just to take that power away.. to set an example of him (that position of power)
  That was not a statement of being preordained.
  Kinda like God helped him stand up out of his chair, so as to knock him down
  
  The rest of your post seemed to be saying that the potter chooses to make pretty pots and ugly pots and bent pots everyone as he chooses. The pot has nothing to say in the matter.
  
  I believe that I was predestined to be short, fat, and ugly.
  And my minds ability to learn was established.
  But again that isn't predestined except in regards as to how am I going to deal with that which I was given.
  
  Yes short, fat, ugly people have a different path to travel that handsome, muscular, tall people do.
  I think that for the vast majority of the people, that is about as far as predestine is implied
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That is the very crux of the message of predestination that Paul has purported in his interpretation of gods word.
  
  It is the nail in the coffin for the concept of biblical free will.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Is this THE reason that some Christians believe everything is predestined? I would check that out!
  As for this verse, you would be correct in saying that it does not indicate predestination.
  
  We would have to examine whatever verses are in question to see what they actually say.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I never said that Jerami. It does say we are all predestined.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that you read more into it than it actually says.
  
  People seem to do that a lot.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, it would seem you probably just don't understand what you read.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are being too modest.
  
  You should take come of the credit.
  
  I gotta get off of here for a while
  I hope you think about it and can come to some kind of resolution.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  If I or God puts a stumbling block before you, This alters your path. It does not predestine your future. There is a difference.
  
  That would be like saying ... That detour sign on the highway predestined for me to stop at this bar, get drunk and kill those people that got in my way.
  
  There is a difference in placing someone on a path, and forcing them to stay on it.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I can only assume the passage went way over your head and you didn't understand it.
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think you meant to say that we all have the chance to own the movie "Free Willy". That is the only reference to free will that most can understand. Most feel that free will means you have the right to freely submit to the will of others. Peace my friend and I hope today exceeds your expectations and that today pales in comparision to tommorrow. I know we don't always agree but that is simply because you haven't accepted the fact that I am a know it all, lol.
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  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  where have I disagreed with you?
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  My bad, I assumed you would disagree with the statement that I know it all. Most do and I appoligize for not giving you the benefit of the doubt. I am simply used to being considered just a man by most females. Thank you for recognizing that I am not just a body but I also have a brain. As always I bow to the superior sex and thank you for the chance to exsist in your presense. Your humble and obedient servant, Stump. Ok, I am now LMAO, couldn't keep a straight face any longer. Peace my friend (uttered during a very low bow from the waist to you and yours.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Driving cars and flying airplanes weren't in the bible either. Should we doubt them?
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  @Druid Dude: I'm not sure of your point. And I'm fairly certain you misunderstand mine. I was making fun of a very old theological conflict in church history. Did you see my follow up comment?
  
  I think maybe you're responding to BailyBear's comment not my response. She asked if pre-destination or free will was in the bible.
  
  If not, and you were addressing me, then I don't know who you think you're talking to about doubt, have you seen my posts and hubs? I'd appreciate it if you don't put words in my mouth to make a not so veiled insult to my faith in our Brother Jesus.
  
  As to your comment... honestly I sometimes think the Amish have it right, they live just fine with 100 year old technology and have a lot more respect for the land... but that's a personal opinion not more than a theological one.
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  Kamzezuruposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't it amazing how muddled and confused people can get. God's plan and purpose is to raise His own family in heaven and the earth is the place where He does it because we, His intended family, must have the free will to accept or reject His offer. Otherwise we would be puppet servants and not family. We serve our probation as His servants on earth to qualify for His family for eternity in His presence in paradise.
  God has predestined that this will be so but He does not predetermine each individual's life. He knows how it will work out by virtue of His sovereignty but He does not go against the free will each of us has. Neither does He predetermine what illnesses and hardships we will face. They are the consequence of genetic corruption, other people's contacts or wrong doings, and a miriad of things that can go wrong in an open system where life evolved through the laws of nature. These all combine to build our character and they constitute the curse which God uttered over Adam. The curse is sickness, hard labour, estranged friends and family, financial ruin, and all the rest. But when our relationship with God is restored the curse is lifted and the burden made light .
  When a person falls in love with someone of the opposite sex for the first time, it is as though they were floating on air and all their troubles gone. So it is with Christ and our heavenly Father. The problems don't go away but the burden does. We will all die one day but we die in peace with God at our side. God promises never to leave or forsake His own and He promises to provide for all our needs one way or another.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  What is amazing is how some people go on a rant about things that they have absolutely no proof of, and that really makes no sense in the real world.
  
  This is absurd.
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  hanging outposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  lol i wonder why u even bother
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Right, the rigid psychosis caused by your religion is inpenetrable.
  
  Believers are rigidly deluded to the point that no common sense, no matter how many times stated, will change their sick delusional mental state.
  
  This is a mental disorder.
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  edpinkling1314posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And we believers are called intollerant?
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No, edpinkling1314, seems at the time here, we are referred to as sick and delusional.
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  Kimberly Bunchposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The priest thing is disgusting!! I can't believe they are aloud to live!! They need their balls whacked, off those sick pups.
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It's not just the preists anymore. America has become a country that accepts sexual abuse of it's children by all denominations. We are now equal opportunity victims of god's chosen leaders.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes. He wanted to see how "evil" one man could be to his brother, not for his benefit, but ours. All of those things, even the ones you don't consider, are evidences of our sin against each other, either directly, or indirectly. This is what happens when no one listens to god. Is it your perception that we have been listening? You say: but the churches are full! I say the churches are empty. Maybe a few people hangin' around. One, two. Not many more. How do I know? It is in the bible, written about what is supposed to be the "Final Times" ours. What you perceive, is exactly what you are supposed to perceive. We, Christians included, are trapped in the darkness of ignorance. Christianity, in it's modern form is full of sugar, made to make it tastier to swallow. Do not be deceived. The truth has not yet been found, though many have unburied it. Eyes and ears. Eyes and ears.
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  Marie Louiseposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  All you points are valid but I think when looking at religon we should all have open minds and take into consideration that a lot of what christianity is is based off of how we interpret what the Bible is saying like the part in Genisis when discussing the creation of man then woman "God said: It is not good for man to be alone, I will make him a helper fit for him"
  
  I am a woman, I feel that we ALL were created equal and I was created to be a "helper" not a slave therefore Man does not command me.
  
  God also gave us Free Will to choose between right and wrong; He does not condone rape, murder, abuse or anything else that is bad. With free will comes the responsibility of choosing God or rejecting Him. By commiting horrible crimes against other human beings one is rejecting God therefor chosing sides with Lucifer. I think it is not God who is to blame for the evil that exists in this world, it is the blame of those who choose to reject God.
  
  As far as homosexualism we also have to take into consideration that the Bible we read today is one that has been interpreted from another older language and has been passed for many generations therefore whose to say that somewhere in the process of interpreting they missed the part about Love and honor being something between two people who truly belong with each other. Maybe it was lost over the years, who's to say.
  
  Even those who claim they are "True Christians" but then bomb an abortion clinic or protest a soldiers funeral; even those mighty "christians" are fake. We are not to condem and it is they who are interpreting the word of God in a false way to make themselves look right.
  
  God asks one major thing of his people and that is "Love me as I love you."
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Marie, Go back one chapter. Man is the species, male and female are the sexes of that species. Created in unison. Now maybe Adam had to wait for Eve to be born, but the species was always intended to have a male one and a female one.
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  lovelylizzyposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  DUDE,I DON'T KNOW.You don't know.We don't know.Heck,NOBODY knows.
  
  Only God Himself does.He knows everything,anyway.
  
  and dude,this,is a VERY brave question to me.I'd be so scared to ask this.
  
  Don't take that the wrong way.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  First show evidence of said God, then, show evidence that He knows everything.
  
  This should be very simple for you to do, since you confidently asserted this as if it is absolute fact.
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  Dave Mathewsposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Truly I say unto you, Almighty God My Father, does set into motion a plan for every person born, a plan filled with love and caring, but, mankind has also been given free will to choose whether or not to follow God and His laws and rules. Sometimes other choose to interfere with those plans, especially satan and in doing so upsets the applecart if you will and messes with God's plan. If a child is born with a birth defect, satan messed things up to try and turn that child from God. The same is true for those with gay tendencies, or other physical adnormalities, it was not a part of God's Plan. God will not prevent man or satan from their right to choose, not until Jesus is sent by God to reclaim His world and our lives. God has His plan, but man and satan mess things up.
  Brother Dave.
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  Twenty One Daysposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  +/- 7.3 billions humans on planet earth, today.
  720,000,000,000,000 vibrations/spoken words per day.
  432,000,000,000,000 thoughts per day.
  
  There were 23 major volcanic eruptions so far this year, last year total 7. There were 22 major earthquakes so far this year, last year total, 18.
  
  Every word that comes from man has power. Collectively, 7.3 billion energy units emitting 720 trillion pulses of energy per day; 262,800,000,000,000,000 per year, estimate. The singular action of one person, effects everything else --positively or negatively-- for years to come.
  
  Still concerned about what "belief system" you have, don't have, want or don't want, what's right or what's wrong -- according to humanism? Just curious...
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  IntimatEvolutionposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Stump, I'm not for sure where you heard all that information, but, it sounds more like an assumptive proclamation verses the truth. So I'd be wearied of the mouths from which you heard all that garbage from.
  
  First all- preplanned destinies cannot be proven. Therefore, no real answer can be obtained, only opinions are obtainable. Opinions are like _ _ _ _holes, everybody has one. So I wouldn't put much stock into that information you overheard.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And Sharron Angle said god told her she was going to beat Harry Reid...
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Stump Parrish wrote...
I have heard that god has a preconcieved plan for mankind that provides for everything. Your entire life was planned before the world was designed, right?

==============================================

can you provide chapter and verse for that statement.
I've never read that!
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No. I simply based thst statement on the rediculous belief that nost christians spout off about. Everything is in god's plan or am I misunderstanding the beliefs of thousands of christians I see regularly? My bad, I suppose they aren't true christians.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I wouldn't comment on their truthfulness.
  Sincerity maybe. Accuracy of interpretation??
  don't think so!
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Stump
  
  You live in the southern Bible belt. I can imagine you come across many hard core Christian in which Gods plan comes up often. Most Christian I meet up in Canada don’t go on about Gods plan as much. I find the hard core ones are at a higher level of bigotry.
  
  If I honesty believe in gods plan and believe I could go to hell along with my loves ones. I would be bigoted with blind faith also. I know from my brother who is a pastor.
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I do live in the bible belt but consider myself lucky to have started school in the north. I had already learned to think for myself before I crossed the Mason-Dummy line. It is quite hilarious at times to watch an 8th grade drop out try and argue about science, geology or history. It is simply unbelievable how many jr high school drop out geniuses there are down here. These people believe they know more about subjects they can't even spell than those who have dedicated their lives to studying. Of course when you accept one rediculous set of beliefs on faith the rest come really easy.
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  Baileybearposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I heard many many christians say this predestined stuff. Bible doesn't say anything about free-will, but it is a common doctrine also
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J.R. Smithposted 13 years ago
"will" is mentioned so many times in the bible,how is this still debatable? I haven't found "pre-destined" yet.
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  BDazzlerposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This link is to the passage used by Calvinists as a foundation for their theology..
  
  http://www.biblestudytools.com/nkj/roma … omans+8:29
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awareposted 13 years ago
1/4 inch = a foot.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I think that I see a tape measure on your tool belt ... So it must be true 1/4' = 1'
  
  can't argue with that logic.
  the answer is clearer that mud.
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awareposted 13 years ago
Gods a kid with a ant farm. He's not planing anything.
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awareposted 13 years ago
Its kinda like a day = 1.3 years
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Do ya think so?
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exorterposted 13 years ago
God has a plan for each of us, but first we must choose to follow Him
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hanging outposted 13 years ago
Angels do not have free will, when God put Adam in the garden and said do not eat of that tree - God displayed Adams ability to choose, hence free-will, eve too and everyone after the garden.

predestination:
Romans 8:29 For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Ephesians 1:5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,

Ephesians 1:11 In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who works all things after the counsel of his own will:

The only predestination we are called to, is to be conformed to the image of his son - after salvation. After we become members of Gods kingdom, our path changes direction and we begin to walk in 'Gods Ways', we flow into the will and purposes of god for us. As God teaches and molds us to his desires, eventually we will become what God wants us to be, hence - has goals, his path, his will, his destination.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Very good, and very true.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God wants us to be, hence - has goals, his path, his will, his destination.
  
  A fine choice, for us choosing our own will. A little arrogant, just maybe.
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  God never said we have to follow Him
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Would it also be arrogant for parents who set house rules to expect their children or guests to follow?
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I expect my children to go to church with me, if they follow the word is up to them, I give them the knowledge to do so
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  This is a ridiculous argument. You might set rules but you wouldn't send your kids or guests to an eternity of hellfire for not following those rules.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Of course I wouldn't, but if they continue to break the rules, I would set them out of my home.
  
  Would it be my fault if they had no other place to go etc?
  NO!! They had a choice and the choice was clearly known.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So, you would toss your kids out on the street simply because they broke your rules. That's terrible parenting.
  
  It is really quite hilarious that believers actually believe that is a "choice" - a similar choice is someone putting a gun to your head. Believe, or else! LOL!
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  If the only option for my children was hell if I kicked them out, then I would have to be a psychopath to put them out, knowing the horrific and unjust fate that hell is.
  
  It would bother me so badly, that I would eventually deliberately go to hell myself, just to tell them how remorseful I was.
  
  Anything else would be uber-selfish and unconscionable.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  so, getitrite, you do have the understanding of hell?
  
  My son, he is the world to me. period. I can not choose for him which path to take when it comes to spiritual matters. My duty, is to explain to him both ways. To not to do so would be "uber-selfish".
  
  Now, back to my point. He has lived under my roof for 17 years, he knows the house rules. They are not hard. But he knows that at home their is a sense of security, provisions, that kind of thing. IF he chose to break and to continue to break the house rules, then that would signal to me that it was time for him to be on his own and able to enjoy life as he so chooses and to experience the world first hand. The doors to his HOME would always remain open. Yes, rules and all.
  
  The world, outside our homes, can be/has been a somewhat scary place in which to inter-act and survivie, but it can hardly be compared to hell.
  
  Not setting guidelines/boundaries/rules for a child, now that my friend is "uber-selfish".
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Forgive me for a few mis=spelled words and I believe I misused a their for a there.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  No one can have an understanding of a fantasy.
  
  Yes, like any parent who indoctrinates their children into a religion will present the same "gun-to-the-head" logic for an alleged "choice" they will be forced to make between two fantasies. There is never the choice of reality offered, unfortunately, for the children.
  
  Yes, not the same thing at all in reality where "gods" children die of starvation every day for lack of any security, provisions, that kind of thing. Notice that your world and the world created by your god are two completely different things, no matter how hard you attempt to compare them.
  
  Yes, an unlike your son who has been given the boot out the door to "enjoy life as he so chooses and to experience the world first hand" the only so-called choice in gods world is an eternity of hellfire. Again, your comparisons are ridiculous as they are irrelevant.
  
  Yes, but it is rather strange how believers continue to make such obvious contradictory comparisons.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bdad, my son,, is safely in bed right now, sleeping like a baby. He is happy, he is safe and very well loved.
  
  I, as a believer, have taught him he has choices to make. When he asked me about God, I explained to him my beliefs, I also told him of the beliefs of others.
  
  He turned 17 the other day, and is at the age of choosing his path in life. I will not force him to believe either way, as I am not forced.
  
  He, like I, will make that choice.. He, like I, will "suffer the consequences" of our choice.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Considering that most believers here know very little about their own religion let alone the religions of others, I'm quite sure he was indoctrinated to believe the same thing that was passed down from your parents.
  
  If he has a brain and uses it, he will understand there is no choice to make other than breaking the indoctrination cycle and to begin thinking for himself, following neither your god or your devil.
  
  The only consequence he will suffer is living a life of ignorance and denial by continuing to follow your god.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not going to judge aothers here in their faith or dis-belief. That is their choice. What you can be quiet sure of is that my parents did not indoctrinate me in any way. Yes, I knew pretty much as they believed, but growing up at my parents house, mom kept a Bible on the coffee table, and sang a few gospel songs, other than that, we didn't discuss religion. My grandparents on the other hand, were the beginning to my faith.
  
  As for my sons brain, yep, he has a bright mind. He loves science. He will choose whichever path he chooses. He will also, live by the consequences of that choice.
  
  I still have yet to see in these forums where christians are attacking anyone here.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  And, there you have the cycle of indoctrination.
  
  Yes, he can live free of religious slavery or not. That is the only consequence.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  One thing that you seem to be missing is that every single person on the face of the planet are operating under one form of indoctrination or another.
  Beginning with the first words that we hear.
  "MOMIE Loves you" though it requires some time before we learn language well enough to think that we understand what that means.
  Every one of us have either been programmed or operate under self hypnosis.
  When we were born our brain was a a NEW computer.
  We were programed up to a certain point in time.
  
  Our own experiences is the programmer.
  Upon adulthood, we choose our experiences thus influencing the program already in effect.
  
  So you are correct! We are ALL brain washed if you want to call it that? We all operate under the conditions that experiences and/or Our own self hypnosis provides.
  
  We have created what we perceive to be our own reality.
  
  Except for the "point of BECOMING" (I say GOD) all else is self imposed both on a personal level and a united effort.
  Who says that united effort is always cooperative in nature?
  
  Point being; it is ludicrous for any one, including you, to say that YOUR/our indoctrinated beliefs are superior to any one else's.
  
  Don't you see! Except for BASIC TRUTH; whatever that IS?all else is delusion/illusion.
  
  So you are correct! As am I, And who knows WHO else?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You may wish to consult a dictionary and look up the word, 'indoctrination.'
  
  No, the indoctrinated have created their own realities in light of reality.
  
  Sorry, I do not share indoctrinated beliefs, yours or anyone else.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami wrote:
  One thing that you seem to be missing is that every single person on the face of the planet are operating under one form of indoctrination or another.
  - - - - -
  Beelzedad wrote
  You may wish to consult a dictionary and look up the word, 'indoctrination.'
  
  - - -
  I did .. it says "It is often distinguished from education ... "
  "Often" is not an inclusive word!
  It is OFTEN but not always disguised in the manner stated in the written definition!
  There are many forms of disguise. And you have been touched by one of them.
  =========================================
  
  We have created what we perceive to be our own reality.
  - - - - - - -
  Beelzedad wrote ..
  No, the indoctrinated have created their own realities in light of reality.
  - - - - - - -
  
  Still in denial ??
  
  =====================================================
  Point being; it is ludicrous for any one, including you, to say that YOUR/our indoctrinated beliefs are superior to any one Else's.
  - - - - - - - -
  Beelzedad wrote ... Sorry, I do not share indoctrinated beliefs, yours or anyone else
  
  - - - - -
  
  That is what I am saying ! You do not share your indoctrinated beliefs.
  Every ones is a little different
  I have my own that it seems few share.
  
  Not to be rude... I gotta get for a bit.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here's the definition: Teaching someone to accept doctrines uncritically. In other words, you teach someone a doctrine and they are to accept it with critically thinking or questioning it.
  
  I am not in denial of reality nor have I created one over and above the reality that is presented to us all.
  
  Please refer to the definition of "indoctrination" and try to understand I do not accept doctrines uncritically. I'm quite surprised you haven't figured that out already.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Made up Nonsense from a wild imagination!
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  there you go judgeing
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Don't fret. He's entitled to his opinion, no matter how wrong it IS. He just doesn't know the truth . No one does really. But they are about to find out.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yep.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  So if no one knows the truth, why do you pretend that you do?
  Can you stifle your ego long enough to see that you make no sense. This is just an inflated ego and ignorance.
  
  You seem to possess the same delusional state as Jim Jones, David Koresh, and the Heavens Gate lunatics. This is quite disturbing---and absurd!
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It seems that you define judgment as everything that doesn't fit your model that "GODDUNIT"
  
  My response was the best answer to Hanging Out's outlandish and nonsensical claims, which he has provided no evidence.
  
  It is not being judgmental when I stated that his rant is "Made up nonsense from a wild imagination"
  
  I was being honest, but you want me to sacrifice my integrity to suit your delusional beliefs. Maybe you should really question the morality of such unholy disgraceful beliefs.
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  exorterposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  some people like beans and tatoes, some don't, that does not mean some are nonsence, everyone has the right to believe what they want without being called names,that even means your right to not believe, I do turn the other cheek,but I wonder if you realize that most of the time you attack others because they choose to believe
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  SomewayOuttaHereposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  ...it's okay for you to believe whatever you want exorter..cuz you will.....i think people become defensive when some beliefs appear extreme and don't seem to be peaceful and inclusive...
  
  Peace!
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  Stump Parrishposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's the best description of the bible I have heard in awhile, thx.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Thank you,
  
  It's quite disturbing, indeed.
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J.R. Smithposted 13 years ago
I know of one angel that had his own will. and still does.
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J.R. Smithposted 13 years ago
Satan doesn't have free-will? Would be hard to stage a rebellion without free will. Doesn't "rebellion " scream of "free will"?
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  JR
  
  After rebelling for 2000 years, isn’t time to go with the natural flow.
  
  Natural flow will kill Satan due to a lack of attention and we can report Jesus on the cross to amnesty.
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awareposted 13 years ago
didn't god create hell for his buddy Satan? i thought i heard something to that effect .
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  They haven’t spoken to each other for a thousand years. They will party again in 2012. I'll give Christians points for wild imagination.
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  Druid Dudeposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What God created is listed on the first page. No Hell, all is well.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Whoosh, I am so relieved, Druid Dude!!!
  
  Can you convince all the other Christian members starting on this forum and remove all the words of hell in the Bible.
  
  Maybe then, I will join.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Castlepaloma, just because hell is not part of creation does not mean it does not exsist.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, here I go.
  Many fail to see that the war that is being fought is a spiritual war. Everyone HAS eternal life.
  
  The two forces in this warfare is between God and Satan. Each one has a "home" one is called Heaven and the other Hell.
  
  The Bible explains both homes very well.
  
  While we are here, and as we grow, God is by our sides every step we take, waiting for us to join His army, never forcing us to choose anything. Freedom of choice you know. THEN on the same token, you have Satan and his army,. they are right there with us as well. Their job is to instill doubt and fear in us as we walk through life. Neither do they force us to believe them.
  
  No one knows where hell is. Noone knows where Heaven is. But both do exist.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Really not interested in your wars, would rather not join an organization that is constantly at war.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  From my understanding, wars, are usually between at least 2 opposing forces.
  
  The majority of the human race fit in one of these two categories.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, in this case it is the Christians against everyone else.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  bdad, you know, I agree. BUT here is my take. From what I read here, and hear out there, I hear and read, the "everyone else" in attack mode while the Christians are in defense mode.
  
  IMO, there is good and bad in all. And there will always be.
  
  I believe there is a Higher Power, and is called many names; The Creator of Creation, The Alpha and Omega. He set His house rules, those that wish to abide by them do so, those that don't wish to abide, they don't.
  
  .
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  mom101
  
  Not one Iraqi person has been known to attack an American on their soil. Yet Iraq claims 900,000 have been killed on their soil. USA has half the military budget of the world combined. USA combined with Russia have 90% of the war heads in the world.
  
  Christian defense mode myy.. assk me no question, I will not tell you no lies. If you get hit with bucket of s... be sure to close your eyes.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  mom101
  
  I understand your wishful thinking for there to be some ultimate authority, but there is no evidence to support your premise, no matter how much the yearning.
  
  Your belief is all hearsay, and based upon unreal phenomena such as magic, angels, devils and spirits.
  
  So in all likelihood, there is no creator, who made any rules, and your belief is based upon the imagination and deception of very ignorant charlatans from the past.
  
  If you could be honest with yourself, you could admit that punishing people with eternal hellfire is a sentence that is exponentially unjust, and that no one, including the worst dictators and mass murderers who ever lived, deserves such a punishment.
  
  ...And for what? Simply for not blindly following the commands of a book, authored by "who knows'--and riddled with absurdities.
  
  If God really exists, and He really is the God of the bible, and He really thinks that we should receive a punishment this stiff for simply not following Him, then life is truly not worth living for the free thinking intelligent person.
  
  I, for one, am glad that this abomination is not real. It would be beyond any oppression imaginable.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  getitrite. I am so sorry you feel the way you do.
  
  I understand, for some, to consider the danger of hell to be intimidating. It does not have to be that way.
  
  God is a loving caring God. He wishes no harm to anyone.
  
  Am I living in fear? NOPE.
  
  Does my heart break for the thought of others who choose the more warmer path in life? Yes.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sorry at all. But I'm sorry you chose to let others think for you.
  
  Did you not understand? I don't believe in your hell. It is a nonsensical concept only for the extremely gullible to believe.
  Therefore, there is nothing to fear.
  
  How can you say such a thing, while implying that he will allow me the free-will to go to everlasting torture in hellfire?
  
  So I guess God just lovingly concludes that if we don't blindly and slavishly kiss His --s, then we should burn in hell for eternity. WOW! What a loving diabolical psychopath.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Think however you wish. Of me and of yourself.
  
  I believe in Heaven. I believe in Hell.
  
  i am NOT in the people pleasing business.
  
  what others think of me is their business.
  
  i am not judged neither do I judge.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Here! Here! Honestly and logically expressed.
  
  The replies you get (if any, as the honest answers are usually skipped,) are likely to be less sophisticated, like goddunit!
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Yeah, godunnit.
  
  Welcome back, my friend.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  G'Day mate! Nice to see you keeping the faith.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Complete nonsense, Christians are always in attack mode while everyone else is in defense mode.
  
  Yes, I'm sure it's fun to pretend and create all sorts of fictional fantasies that contradict reality, like your gods so-called rules, his so-called free will and his so-called intervention and plans. It's just all so much pretending.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You are pretending to be an Atheist.
  In real life you are a preacher and on here you are playing reverse psycology.
  
  It is working... Keep up the good work.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Bdad, show me in this forum where any Christian is in the attack mode. Please.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! I couldn't show you were they were not.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! I'm pretending not to believe your fantasies?
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  bdad, are you really a preacher?
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  sure he is... don't let him fool ya.
  
  Ya see he is pretending to be on the other side!
  
  NOT.
  
  But he might as well be. The product is the same!
  
  He is doing Gods work and don't even see that ... either.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  mom rule 101
  
  If I simplified my entire rules to not harming anyone and throw the concept of Hell all together, what am I left with? Peace, love and can rule my children with love, and they can manage to follow that. If the devil monkey is always on you’re Christian back, avoid him all together. Fearing devils every moment in your life is hell on earth and to fear hell as your most likely destination after life, seem insane.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  WAYS ENTITY HOME
  peace love and understanding. God Heaven
  turmoil hatred and confusion Satan Hell
  
  Now, there are my options. Which ever I choose, those same traits will I teach, those same traits will I live by.
  
  Please, do not understand me, I in no way shape or form fear the devil monkey.
  Yep, as to your way of reasoning, he is and can be and will always be alert and on his game every second of every day TRYING to pull me down, away from trying to live out the choice I have made
  .
  Fear is not a trait of God.
  
  Hell does exist. So does Heaven.
  
  We have choices. There is no reason to fear.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds a little dishonest. In the case of most Christians, fear of the devil is the driving force behind their steadfast belief.
  
  So why did you choose heaven, if not for fear of going to hell?
  Is this false bravado? There seems to be plenty to fear.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Getitrite, as I can not speak for anyone except me I can and do make you one promise. I do not fear the devil.
  
  Why did I choose Heaven? That would be hard for many to understand. I for one would rather teach love peace beauty and that type thing.
  
  I want you to know, the Bible, it is but a book., it has been written and re-written many times over. I take the Bible as it is written, as someones opinion. I consider myself to have an open mind and pray that learning never ends. My heart, on the other hand, is not as open, I guard it.
  
  The war, we are discussing, is not between you and I. It is a spiritual war.
  
  I have never called anyones belief system any type of names or tried to put them down for believing the way they do. Why do you?
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Do you have evidence of this claim?
  
  Seperate yourself from your beliefs, and you won't take it so personally. The assault is on your beliefs, not you.
  
  I believe your beliefs are TERRIBLE. Sorry.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
I have too many lines.. I gotta sloowww ddooowwwnnnnn
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exorterposted 13 years ago
I am 62 years old, if I go and visit my Mother, at her house I live by her rules, at my house my kids and grand kids must adhere to my rules, at their house my rules does not mean anything unless they wish them to, that is the way of life, it is called respect for others
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Good old fashion values.
  
  So nice to see someone who knows them.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  What would you do to someone who didn't follow your rules?
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Just like they do at AstroWorld... If you are not 48" tall you do NOT get on that ride. Cry all ya want but ya gotta follow their rules.
  
  If you spit the peanut butter sandwich on the floor you do not get another one.
  
  If you want to come into my house to get out of the cold you do not knock holes in the wall. If you try, you have to leave.
  
  I told one of my boys once, when he wanted to fight, If you want to fight me like a man; come on with it. And when the day comes that you win that fight.... YOU or ME is moving out of the house.
  You can not have peace and order without rules. That simple.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, I see, in other words, you don't banish them to an eternity of hellfire and torture, like your god would do.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where do you get that Idea!
  You do not know what my god will do or not do!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  But, you know what you're god will do and not do?
  
  Or, do we both resort to biblical scriptures to get our information?
  
  How do you think it works, Jerami?
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Books??????? Science wouldn't ever refer to any such thing I gather?
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hell was created for the devil and his angels. How many times have I heard someone say, " A loving God wouldn't put his people in hell". God is not willing that anyone should perish, but that all should come to repentance. If you don't accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior, you will be following the devil and his angels.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why would you believe anyone would be following the devil by simply not following Jesus? That makes no sense at all. One can not follow Christianity AND not follow the devil, too. Quite simple to do.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Your comment is ridiculous.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Why is the comment ridiculous? If I actually had a choice, then my choice would be not to follow your god or the devil. That would be the true nature of having a choice.
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now you got it. You finally admit that you have free will to make your own choices. This is what we mean by using the word free will. Remember, You make different choices throughout your daily life. Let me see your smiley face. God bless you!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's nice. Unfortunately, believers cannot explain predestination AND free will.
  
  According to your bible, your god already knows those choices, he has made them for me. That isn't free will.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Woman of courage, what is so hard that people can't understand that?
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Some people misinterpret the bible and choose to believe that God is evil, and will not take responsibility for their own choices.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Woamn Of Courage, exorter mentioned earlier respect. I wonder, respect, responsibiliy are they slowly disappearing traits?
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  Woman Of Courageposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I believe so.
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  getitriteposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
  Because, you know, it's actually too absurd.
  There is no need to try to understand that which defies reason...unless one reaches the state of MADNESS.
  
  Whenever believers can explain their mind numbing assertions in logical practical language, instead of uber-subjective opinion, it will be understood.
  
  In other words, she simply needs to make sense to the intellect, and not to blind whimsical faith.
  
  God got it right!
  
  My people are foolish and do not know me," says the LORD. "They are stupid children who have no understanding. They are clever enough at doing wrong, but they have no idea how to do right!"
  
  Jeremiah 4:22 (NLT)
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Wow, most people in the world are not even aware of Jesus. Are they any less foolish and stupid, or am I just being clever and wrong too, for asking?
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, God did get it right.
  getitrite, I agree with that. I don't need any help at getting things wrong. When I goof its bad. I also admit, I aint the sharpest knife in the drawer. And i agree, I must be the one from outer space, for I don't understand this UBER and generation x and y theory. Don't intend on trying. I do not feel the need to. I do KNOW I am not a letter or number. Neither are you, but if that is what you choose to be referenced as I do respect your wishes.
  
  The "book" as so many call it, is just that, it is a book. Written and re-written many times over, in a way that is said to be easier to understand. It is in part someone elses opinion. But, the central message in either of the translations remain the same. And many use it as a guide.
  
  But as far as books go, doesn't science rely on books as well? And far as scientists go, reckon what prompted them to "thinK"?
  
  Books whimsical faith...........one without the other? Not from my view.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Mom
  
  I agree the bible is just a book, like Cat in the Hat to me. Other fairy tales are not presented as facts and true events. I wonder sometimes, if some think the popular Flintstones show was some sort of bible documentary. The Bible I can take the odd note or guideline and read hundreds of other great and interesting books as the same.
  
  To you and many Christian think the bible is the source of life and after life or what other fess and purpose is it all about?
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Where on Gods green earth did you get that idea/ A book can not produce life.
  
  The Bible, however is like I mentioned earlier, a guide that many use. It is said to be the Inerrant Word, Rightly Divided.
  
  But in any case, it is NOT a source of life or after life.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Oops, hit the wrong button, but, I think the OP is about Gods Plan. And that is what I am discussing. Not how life came to be.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  The Bible says: The Earth is flat! At one time most people thought the world was flat, Columbus proved them wrong .
  
  Today half of the USA thinks the world is under 10,000 years old, when most of the people of this world do not. There is much evidence to support the arts, culture and civilization dating back 30,000 years ago.
  
  Do you believe Genius?
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Though this is quiet possibly truth, more than likely so even, this just backs u what is in the book.. There are things we will never fully understand, while at the same time, we are discovering many things as time goes on.
  
  Here is a thought, neither is it new, but a thought nonetheless. It has been said there is nothing new under the sun, with that said, the "things" we are discovering today or in years past as far back as either of us can remember, do you sometimes get the feeling that someone else had already discovered them? I do sometimes.
  
  Flat, round this is trivial to most.
  
  Everything has two sides, two takes, two spins on it. Choices. That is part of the plan, and from where I stand it is a PART of how we grow. (Not in size).
  
  I am sorry to any one who thinks I come across bull headed, or rude or anything of that nature. I admit, I do not know how or what a non believer thinks, except that it seems apparent they do not believe in Hell.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  mom101
  
  I am not clear what you are saying. And you prefer not to answer the Genius question.
  
  You can hide from me and most others and say many facts are trivial. Then turn around to your loyal social group and agree the Bible facts is universal truth and knowledge and every word is true.
  
  You and half of the USA can not keep their heads in the sand, for sake of blind faith forever. Wail most of us will just move around you, guided by the grounded truth and change the world for a true spiritual age.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You have me mixed up with someone apparently, I belong to no social club, I admit, I am rather slow here compared to most, and I don't recall which question you are referring to.
  
  Though I do not wish anyone, friend or foe for that matter, to perish. I can not keep them from it. Now with that said, I agree with you again, sheez, time itself is passing by faster each day, new technology, I will never understand it, I appreciate pastors and the like, but it is of a spiritual war this old body fights.
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pisean282311posted 13 years ago
practically or theoretically...practically god made 100s of religion so that humans keep guessing whose god is better and whose version is better...his plan seems logical to keep humans divided so that they can keep fighting and guessing...may be that entertainment for god...
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Fox news and movies is huge entertainment.
  
  Hey Mom and Dad, come! the war on!!!!
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Beelzedad wrote ...
But, you know what you're god will do and not do?
- - - - -

No I do not know what he will do.

I can make very few assumptions. I certainly have my suspicions of the integrity of the scriptures of prophesy
as they have been translated and/or interpreted correctly.
I feel very strongly certain interpretations of prophesy have been totally misconstrued intentionally. And it doesn't take but one good one to cause us to misunderstand the rest of scripture. I believe that the intentions of original message was lost due to misinterpretation at the onset of organized religion.
For that reason I will have a skeptical view when reading the rest of scriptures.
I pay particular attention to the wording exactly as stated, attempting diligently to not inflict my interpretation to the message as written.

Your next question would be ... with all the different versions of the Christian bible which one do I study?
The New KJV as re translated into today's language from the original Greek.
When studying wordage used in scripture I believe that this one is the closest to the original scripture as I have access to.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  That's called "guesswork" and has a 'hit and miss' system of results.
  
  As do I.
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  klarawieckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Beely, So what happens when you hit 95% and only miss 5%?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  It means you're still missing. Of course, I'd need to see an example of what you're referring.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I hit 85% of my dreams on deadline in the pass 22 years years.
  Am I missing too much too?
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure I understand what you're getting at, could you please clarify?
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I am not sure what god plan is or the translations or understand the contradiction of free will.
  
  Do know I'm a co creator with God in planning my will to service mankind. That plan is from my dream list that measure results of 85% success rate, layout on paper.
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, still not with you, what are you saying?
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Beelzedad
  
  The thread is called - God plan says what?
  
  klarawieckposted reply to
  Hey Beely, So what happens when you hit 95% and only miss 5%?
  relating to tranlation in the bible
  
  I relating my hits of success % and understanding of a God plan
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
The Bible says: The Earth is flat! At one time most people thought the world was flat, Columbus proved them wrong .
- - - - - -

The bible does not say that the PLANET id flat.!!!!!

Scripture does say something to the effect.." on the four corners of the earth. ? If you wanted to consider that Babylon, Persia, and Greece was given dominion over the whole earth... You would realize that in these instances, the word EARTH was translated from was referring to ISRAEL or the Promised Land.
===========================

Today half of the USA thinks the world is under 10,000 years old, when most of the people of this world do not. There is much evidence to support the arts, culture and civilization dating back 30,000 years ago.
- - - - - -

Where do you get your numbers from??
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Columbus got paid to prove the world was flat, most people at the time thought that the world was flat...The Viking, Chinese and many native already discover America
  
  The Bible says: The Earth is flat!
  - The flat Earth is established and can never move?! The Sun hurries back to where
  it rises?!
  - The Earth has pillars?!
  - The Earth has Edges?! The wicked might get shaken off of it and fall off in
  space?!
  - Does Isaiah 40:22 really say that Earth is Round? The Earth is a flat circle?!
  - Christian Theologians' Commentaries that further suggest that the Earth
  is flat.
  - The light of the Universe and the flat earth's dimensions in the Bible.
  - Conclusion.
  
  There is a large natural history museum in the USA displaying dinosaurs like pets and claiming dinosaur began 6000 years ago. They want government funding to teach this in every school in America, some claim they will sue.
  
  78% of American is Christian and they believe Genius
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Could you show me where it says these things in scripture please. I would bet ya that what ever verse that you could reference can be proven to be mis interpreted or mis translated.
  I don't know nuttin, but I'd betcha.
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  mom101posted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Castlepaloma, I've made it thru my entire life without the need or desire to know about dinosaurs.
  
  I am praying as I type to keep my response short. (gov/school) my pet peeve.
  
  The basics in math, writing, spelling, english and health.and computer (grades 1 thru 6) Nothing more, nothing less. There are kids in hs that can not read.
  
  Grades 7 and 8, social interaction, budgeting skills, money handling skills, laundry cooking cleaning.
  
  Grade 9: American history, science AND religion computer,
  Grades 10 thru 12, Skilled trade classes, skilled trade classes and more skilled trade classes. Office Occupations, Health Occupations, Auto Repair, Auto Diagnostic, Electrical, Food Safety & Handling, Carpentry, Cpmputer programming etc. Hands on training, in class and in shop or out in the work force.
  
  Give these kids something they can survive with when they spend their last day at school.
  
  Public schools are funded by the gov. Why are we not making the most out of our investments?
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  look all these up isaiah 40 22
  
  Isaiah 11:12
  12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)
  
  Revelation 7:1
  1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
  
  Job 38:13
  13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)
  
  Jeremiah 16:19
  19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)
  
  Daniel 4:11
  11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)
  
  Matthew 4:8
  
  You don't believe at one time most people thought the world was flat?
  No wonder most professional Scientist is non believers
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
Castlepaloma wrote k all these up isaiah 40 22

Isaiah 11:12
12 And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH. (KJV)

Revelation 7:1
1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on FOUR CORNERS OF THE EARTH, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree. (KJV)
=============================================================

ME ... Do you think that Israel can be said to have four corners?
Do you think that Babylonian Kingdom, or King Cyrus' kingdom might have been described to have four corners.

For it is written that Cyrus said that the God of heaven has given him all the kingdoms of the earth. EZRE 1:2
I really gotta go take care of some business so I can't look them all up now, but there are many references of "the whole earth" in situations that shows "THE Earth" was understood at the time to be talking about something other that who we perceive it today.
================

Castlepaloma wrote Job 38:13
13 That it might take hold of the ENDS OF THE EARTH, that the wicked might be shaken out of it? (KJV)

Jeremiah 16:19
19 O LORD, my strength, and my fortress, and my refuge in the day of affliction, the Gentiles shall come unto thee from the ENDS OF THE EARTH, and shall say, Surely our fathers have inherited lies, vanity, and things wherein there is no profit. (KJV)

Daniel 4:11
11 The tree grew, and was strong, and the height thereof reached unto heaven, and the sight thereof to the ENDS OF ALL THE EARTH: (KJV)

Matthew 4:8

You don't believe at one time most people thought the world was flat?
No wonder most professional Scientist is non believers
===========================

Me again ....
To the ends of the earth ??
To go to the ends of the earth and beyond.
TO Go where no man has gone before ??
I think would be saying about the same thing.
Because Cyrus did not rule over the whole planet nor did he he did rule over what was considered to be the known world.
For him to have said what he said indicates that ...
So we have a translation problem. I agree!
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Still at one time most people thought the world was flat?
  Today in the USA half the people believe the world is less than 10,000 years old, Wonder why? Genius
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  You say... Today in the USA half the people believe the world is less than 10,000 years old,
  Wonder why? Genius
  
  I'm not a genius !
  But I won't argue if anyone says that say I am.
  Just kidding.
  
  I guess for the same reason that
  Half the people think that politicians are hard working, patriotic wise men who have only the well being of the people in mind in everything that they do.
  
  All that I can say is, "HUM , Go figure"
  
  I think that those that say that say they believe in the young earth. do have their doubts, but wouldn't want anyone knowing it.
  I'd blame that on pier pressure.
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Jeramiposted 13 years ago
on your first day of school; You were indoctrinated into public school program.

Indoctrination into a street gang, the boy or girl scouts, or the military.

I am just saying that indoctrination covers a broader range of meaning than you want it to be focused.

Indoctrination is not an exclusively religious term.

Indoctrination has many origins, which is sometimes disguised and sometimes not.

You can be indoctrinated into any and all belief systems.
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  Castlepalomaposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Thats why I do not belong to any group, free to share with all groups and free to be an unlimited thinker. Love everyone anyways.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I have enjoyed bumping heads frequently.
  I often retain something other than just a knot on my head.
  
  Beliefs should be a thought process that is ever expanding.
  
  the eternal onion, never running out of another level to peal.
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Jeremy when it comes to peeling myths, it's a bit like peeling water!
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  I bet if you wanted to peel water you could do it.
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Now you are talking dirty bomb talk.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking of dirty I think my tub is ready.
  
  Don't have a bomb???
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  sandra rinckposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Well good luck with whatever you do in the bathroom just be safe and try not to split any atoms.
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  Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  
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  earnestshubposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Did you peel the water first? There seem to be a lot of layers in water!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Again, please refer to the definition of 'indoctrination' to alleviate your confusion.
  
  No, what I see is confusion on your part as to what indoctrination is all about.
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  Jeramiposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  signed ... Back atcha!
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  Beelzedadposted 13 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, what kind of response is that? Childish, if nothing else.
  
  But, I do understand that the indoctrinated have little or no concept of being able to distinguish between teaching and indoctrination, even when the two definitions are held up in front of them.
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melporposted 13 years ago
I do not believe in pre-determinism and I do not believe God or anyone have a plan for more than 6 billion people on on earth. That just does not may any sense to me. A plan to do what. Everything I have done in life, I have done based on free will nothing more. Besides, how can people keep saying God has a plan when the people in Haiti and other locations in the world are constantly being hit with misery from time to time. These people do not deserve this and I cannot see how this is part of God's plan.
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J.R. Smithposted 13 years ago
I don't believe in pre-determination either. But remember this is not God's planet. yet. the Devil runs this roost. as for Haiti,consider the religions there. we have a missionary from there that fights voo-doo and muslim militants everyday. He has had friend killed over bible possesion. He is a fascinating individual with the courage to preach God's word on the Devil's doorstep. The spiritual situation in Haiti is unlike anywhere else on Earth.
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jay_kumar_07posted 13 years ago
OBIDIENCE
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