Jesus = YHWH delivers? ..then god = YHWH not jesus?

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   pisean282311posted 13 years ago

   I was searching for meaning of jesus and according to some internet sources jesus=YHWH delivers...so god =YHWH then why is jesus too called god?...

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      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So are you saying they are one and the same?

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         pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         no i am asking since i am bit confused in this...i mean YHWH is not so common name for god...isn't it?...but jesus is known to have been son of god and jesus means YHWH delivers...so YHWH becomes god?...and if so how can jesus be god?

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            pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Did he not say I and my father are one somewhere in the bible? If my memory is correct then that will make sense wouldn't it. Jesus is God, God is Jesus.

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               pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               well YHWH is not from bible..right?..YHWH is from jews and they dont call jesus god...YHWH seems to be original name for abhrahmic religion...what say?

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                  prairieprincessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  The Bible consists of the old and new Testament. The Old Testament is Jewish Scripture. Jesus was Jewish, and his people were Jewish.
                  
                  He claimed to be the fulfillment of the Jewish Scriptures, the Messiah that is talked about all throughout their holy text.
                  
                  I believe that he is the Messiah talked about in Jewish Scriptures.

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                     pisean282311posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     i got that..thank you for input...but messiah = god or not?...my basic question is that YHWH and god and jesus are one and same thing?

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                     prairieprincessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Jesus claimed to be God, and that is why he was crucified, and vilified. It was considered blasphemy.

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                  pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  Yes agree its no where in the bible I have read. Yet translated in the way you put it, it confirms what is said in the bible. Just interpreted differently.
                  
                  Some think Jesus is not God but I think its because they do not look at Jesus being in and of God not separate. Rather it is perceived as Jesus is God full stop.
                  
                  I don't know if the Jews believe Jesus is God in the way described above?  We might have to wait for the Jewish followers to come and explain to us?

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                  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  ____________________
                  YHVH is in the Jewish (first scriptures)
                  But everywhere it had God's name, they translated it into God, which is generic. The word God came from the German word Gott.
                  The word God, does not appear in the scriptures.

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               paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               The expression "I and my father are one" means Jesus is in full service of the Creator-God; Jesus does not disobey God-Allah-YHWH.

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                  Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  ________________
                  I agree

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                     paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     Thanks for your appreciation.

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                  pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  You get all that  from I and my father are one? How so?

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                     Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     _____________________________
                     From the English Bible. These scriptures show how they were one. It doesn't mean they are the same person.
                     
                     John 3:35
                     The Father loves the Son, and hath given all things into his hand.
                     
                     John 5:17
                     But Jesus answered them, My Father works hitherto, and I work.
                     
                     John 5:18
                     Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.
                     
                     John 5:19
                     Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
                     
                     John 5:20
                     For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel
                     
                     John 5:21
                     For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will
                     
                     John 5:26
                     For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself
                     
                     John 5:30
                     I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me
                     
                     John 5:36
                     But I have greater witness than that of John: for the works which the Father hath given me to finish, the same works that I do, bear witness of me, that the Father hath sent me
                     
                     If Yahshua was God, his statement here would be a lie.
                     John 5:37
                     And the Father himself, which hath sent me, hath borne witness of me. Ye have neither heard his voice at any time, nor seen his shape.
                     
                     John 6:57
                     As the living Father hath sent me, and I live by the Father: so he that eateth me, even he shall live by me.

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                        Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        It would be nice if you edited, explaining Jesus' metaphoric usage. I guess that would be too much to ask.

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                           Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           __________
                           If you were of God, it would be as clear as the nose on your face.

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                              Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                              You're too funny!

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                        pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Yes agree the scriptures show them as one, and because I see God as not being a physical being I agree too that they not the same person in a sense.   
                        
                        I was wondering where do any of those passages point to obeying and serving?
                        
                        Except.... if obeying and serving is perceived from this
                        
                        "I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me"
                        
                        This for me points to Jesus knowledge of the conscious minds limitations...The aspect of mind that recognizes the opposites in our existence. Allowing (not sure thats the correct word) the will of the father that is unlimited would then make sense.
                        
                        Perhaps it is perceived from other passages I don't know?

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                        paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                        Good quotes.
                        
                        Thank you

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                           Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                           ______________
                           Thank you

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            paarsurreyposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Jesus is no god or son of god; when Jesus himself said very clearly and unequivocally that he is Son of Man; then why don't you accept Jesus' words.
            
            Are you in doubt about him?

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               smattomposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               Paar, perhaps you should read the previous posts, in particular John 5:18 as to why the Jews apparently wanted to kill Jesus.
               
               If memory serves, you are of the Islamic faith, which would explain your standpoint on Jesus.
               
               As to accepting Jesus' words, even they are sometimes contradictory and 'clever', although there is clearly much of beauty also.
               
               As to doubt, I would call that having an open mind. Can you claim to have this?

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      kessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      The Father and the Son are one,
      
      Therefore all that IS the Father Is also the Son.
      
      Nevertheless, The Son knows His Father.
      
      A misunderstanding of the son will lead to a misunderstanding of the Father.
      
      And a misunderstanding of the Father leads to a misunderstanding of the Son.
      
      When one get caught up Names or human titles, the would almost always be led astray, for their meaning is always imperfect and you must subject you thinking unto the way of another human teacher (Usually imperfect).
      
      These cannot clearly show the nature and relationship of father and son.
      
      This is why Jesus instruction never was to go read,research and such like, But simply go Live Life(Love your neighbor as yourself) cause Life will teach you Itself.

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      Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Why?
      
      Jesus is called god because he claimed to be a god.
      
      The OT book should be completely thrown away, upon the arrival of Jesus' teachings. Jesus' teaching is about finding one's own ability to be a god in life, especially their own life.
      
      It wasn't about paying homage to some creator or other god like idols. This is where religion engulfed Jesus' followers after his execution. Religion sealed the fate of all Jesus' followers into religion by incorporating a skewed view of his work. One that was pushed upon people as a fact, when truth be told- Jesus' work had nothing to do with religion.
      
      In fact- Jesus despised Religion of the rulers, claiming they did not follower their god's teachings. The fact remains, they were following their god's teachings, literally, which is why so many were enslaved over the centuries.
      
      Those before Jesus were in fact following a false idol. To prove that- Jesus taught his followers to search for god within themselves. This was to mean that they control their thoughts and their actions, and when they do that, they should be honest with themselves and everyone else around them, in order to completely love or have a lust for love of life.
      
      There is no god.

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         Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         ______
         Prove it
         
         Nothing you have said is scriptural

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            Cagsilposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            Hey Deb, do you read history like you read your good book?
            
            What would you like pointed out in scripture? You seem to be lost, I guess I can see why.
            
            You've probably never considered that not only does history tell a story, like the good book does, it is only when taken in it's entirety, can you see that there is no god and absolutely no reason for one to exist.
            
            There is nothing in my statement that cannot be found in either history or religion. And, it might even be considered- a look at if you will, the time in which Jesus actually lived, to gain a better perspective?

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               Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

               __________________
               I am very educated and can take you on anytime.
               
               The scripture IS Jewish history.
               
               In Israel  even the Judges are required to know the Torah.

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                  Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this

                  knowledge, puffs up. love builds up
                  
                  i am not very well educated does it show?????
                      rolleyes:

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                     Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

                     _______
                     I was responding to someone else. You might want to read what I was responding to.
                     I can only speak for myself, not you.
                     Do you have a problem with me saying I am very educated?

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         smattomposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         @Deborah:
         
         Perhaps you should prove there is a god and you're welcome to use any method you like.
         
         Scripture is contradictory, old, subject to interpretation and amendment/rewriting, subjective (certain books were discovered, some discarded, some yet to be discovered etc etc) and capable of producing evidence for just about any view point, but try by all means if this works for you.
         
         When will theists get that the onus is on THEM to prove god's existence since there is absolutely no evidence for it. Remember, and keep repeating:
         
         "That which can be asserted without evidence can also be DISMISSED without evidence."

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      Shahid Bukhariposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Humans ... are Creation ... Humans Address God ... with different "Names" ...
      
      YHWH ... [Yahwey] is how, the Jews turn to The Creator ... Muslims address Him by His Name ... Allah ... Christians call Him God.
      
      Jesus, the son of Mary ... is the Christ. Meaning, the Promised Messiah, the Savior ... of Humankind ... a Sign of God, among the Humankind.
      
      In Islamic Belief ... Jesus, is a Prophet of God, who hath been Elevated, in Divine Ordination, that he shall Return, to rid humankind of Anti-Christ, and to kill the Swine ... before, the Ends of Time ...

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         Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         ___________________
         Hebrews never use YHWH, Yahweh or Jehovah.
         It is YHVH, Yod Heh Vav Heh
         
         Some American Jews and Non-Jews say they think at one time the Hebrew alphabet had a Waw.
         There's no proof of this.
         The Hebrew language has not changed and it is Vav not Waw.
         
         They dropped two letters that were rarely used, but one of them wasn't waw.

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   prairieprincessposted 13 years ago

   Jesus is both God and man, and he has several names.
   
   The name, Emmanuel, means "God with us," and signifies that he came to earth to be human.
   
   He is often called LORD Jesus Christ.
   
   The LORD means that he is God, and that we should worship Him. The Jesus part means that he was human, lived among and understands all of the struggles and problems of being human.
   The Christ means that he is the Messiah, the promised one,or the Chosen One of the Father.
   
   http://www.egrc.net/articles/director/a … _0702.html
   
   He claimed to be God. We can either reject his claim, or accept it.

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      Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      _____________
      Please give scripture where he claimed to be God.

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         prairieprincessposted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Deborah, I will do this, but can't right now, because I have to go. Later on, though, I will show Scriptures that show him saying he is God.

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   Deborah Sextonposted 13 years ago

   YHVVH is the unspeakable name of God.
   Many have translated it incorrectly as Jehovah and Yahweh, but it is YHVH.
   
   Yahshua (Jesus to Christians)  came in God's name which is Yah (shortened name) . The name shows God's name Yah in Yah shua. Yahshua's accrual birth name is Immanuel.
   
   God's name is also revealed in Revelation 19:4
   And the four and twenty elders and the four beasts fell down and worshipped God that sat on the throne, saying, Amen; Alleluia (AlleluYah in Hebrew). Meaning praise to your name Yah)
   
   But Yahshua is not God. Yahshua was human.
   
   The Catholic idea of Trinity breaks God into three separate beings: The Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost. But scripture says "Hear O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is ONE" (Deut. 6:4).
   In Jewish law, worship of a three-part god is considered idolatry -- one of the three cardinal sins that a Jew should rather give up his life than transgress.
   
   Christians believe that God came down to earth in human form, because Yahshua (Jesus) said: "I and the Father are one" (John 10:30).
   God never assumes physical form. He is Infinite, beyond space. He cannot be born, and cannot die. Saying that God assumes human form makes God small, diminishing both His unity and His divinity. As the Torah says: "God is not a man" (Numbers 23:19).
   
   "God is near to all who call unto Him" (Psalms 145:18). Further, the Ten Commandments state: "You shall have no other gods BEFORE ME,"

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   exorterposted 13 years ago

   Mary was overshadowed by the Holy Ghost and became with child.
   that makes the Holy Ghost the Father.
   the Word says unto us a child is given, unto us a Son is born, and his name shall be called the Everlasting Father, the Mighty God.

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   Deborah Sextonposted 13 years ago

   These scriptures show what Yahshua meant by two being one.
   
   
   John 17:22 KJV
   And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one:
   
   Mark 10:8
   And they twain shall be one flesh: so then they are no more twain, but one flesh
   
   
   Because we know we aren't suddenly one body with our husband/wife when we get married, this scripture has never really confused anyone.
   
   Genesis
   24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.

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      smattomposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Check...
      
      So, when it suits, you apply common sense then?
      
      "We KNOW we aren't suddenly one body with our husband/wife" even though your scripture does rather repeat "one flesh" as an idea.
      
      Funny how you take literally - and seemingly claim rights to perfect interpretation - of really cryptic stuff like "I and the Father are one" but have to reinterpret "one flesh" because it plainly doesn't make sense.
      
      This is all babble. Interesting babble I guess, and there's a lot to learn in this babbleology, but however you slice it and dice it, it's babble. Can't you guys just keep it simple, take a nice bit of humanism, and get on with leading as good a life as you can possibly lead? Humanism, even Buddhism, predated all this monotheistic stuff.
      
      Best of luck.

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      pennyofheavenposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      So those passage's point to both the inner and outer oneness yes?

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   Joy56posted 13 years ago

   a lot depends on whether you believe the trinity.....  YHWH, with the vowels from adony meaning lord, and other vowels giving us yahweh, or some pronounce Jehovah.... I understand Jehovah and Jesus to be one in the same mind.... However even when Jesus was dying he cried out to his heavenly father, so they could not be one....
   
     Interesting point thanks for sharing this

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   Joy56posted 13 years ago

   I have read every word on this thread, why would i have a problem with you saying you are very well educated......

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      Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      _____________
      You asked me did it show..as you stated about your education. I thought you were being sarcastic because I said I WAS educated.
      You said knowledge puffs up!!
      There's another hubber who attacks me every time I mention knowing anything.
      She seems to hate me because of it.

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         Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this

         Sorry i did not mean to attack you.  I think i was probably being sarcastic quoting that scripture.  It's not the kind of thing i would go around saying to be honest, as we are all educated just to different levels, and about different things.  Where religion is concerned, there are so many theories that we could be very educated in the wrong belief, and what good is that???

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            Deborah Sextonposted 13 years agoin reply to this

            _________
            Thank you, and no problem.
            
            I went back to the Hebrew/scripture roots, where the belief in one almighty God started.
            I felt there was no better place to go, to understand the meaning.
            I have learned so much. I like to share what I know, not to show off, but to give..
            "You shall know the truth and it will set you free".

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               Joy56posted 13 years agoin reply to this

               you have just quoted one of my fave scriptures actually......  it is nice to be free

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   paarsurreyposted 13 years ago

   Jesus is no god or son of god; when Jesus himself said very clearly and unequivocally that he is Son of Man; then why don't the Christians accept Jesus' words and leave what their priest or Church says.

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      libby101aposted 13 years agoin reply to this

      Ok then why don't you accept that Muhammad was a war monger and Jew hater?
      
      Why try to bash other's beliefs? Hmmm.. Maybe because it makes you feel better about your own religion? Why not concentrate on Muhammad!

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