Should the debt ceiling be raised?

1. 59

   mio cidposted 12 years ago

   The republican position is that under no circumstance will they allow any tax raise as part of the negotiations to raise the debt ceiling.They also want spending cuts, right now,significant in quantity,and across the board except on defense , when asked if the only way an agreement could be reached was if the democratic president accepted all their conditions, sen. Jon kyl responded: yes.The Republicans think they have the upper hand ,that with the coming of the tea party,people will back them up to the ultimate consequences, even if it means a government shutdown, or the country going into default,and at the same time they would really like to take revenge because in 94 they took the hit for a similar situation.The democrats on the other hand are in some cases of the mindset that if the republicans want to commit political suicide thay should let them.so the situation is clear,whoever blinks looses,but if nobody blinks..... the whole country will lose.

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      cupajoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      This isn't a Dem or Rep issue. The issue is, the people we send to the Capital Hill need to understand " cut the spending! "
      There are a billion ways to do that. We don't need to rebuild the wheel. We don't need to revamp our medical care, we need to stop the fraud thats ripping hard working Americans off. Monsters are reping off medicare, and medical. "That hasn't even been addressed."
      That is just one issue, I won't go on about the countless other issues over the last  few years that have been delt with in the same manner.
      I was just on twitter, and I had someone ask me why we shouldn't tax the rich more. The answer is so simple, but I just wrote back and ask him to show me any time in history where that hasn't lead to total colapse of the economy of the people who took that path.
      I don't believe anything we hear coming out of Washington DC. I'm not sure that if we don't raise the debt cieling the world as we know it will come to san end. I still remember when we were told that if we didn't bail out the banks we would be on the edge of never more.
      No, I think we should stick to our guns, and push for cutting spending.
      
      

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         Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Just about everyone agrees that spending should be cut. But that wouldn't be sufficient to erase the deficit and begin to reduce the national debt. Tax revenue increases will be required as well as expenditure cuts.

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      Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A long term solution to the national debt issue will require both cuts in government expenditures and increased tax revenue. There are plenty of loopholes that should have been closed long ago--taxpayer subsidies to Exxon and other hugely profitable international oil companies, the hedge fund loophole that allows hedge fund operators to pay capital gains taxes on what should be ordinary income. the unrepatriated profits tax loophole an d so forth. And there's no shortage of non-essential government programs. Of course ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan would help close the deficit. Failing to raise the debt ceiling would mean that we would not be able to pay debts already incurred. This would be unthinkable.

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      OpinionDuckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Instead of always raising the bridge, we need to focus heavily on lowering the water.
      
      That means reducing the size of the government workforce and its scope by at least twenty five percent. Removing defined benefit pensions, job security and reducing benefits for the government workforce. Give them what is the average in the private sector.

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   knolyourselfposted 12 years ago

   Nixon dumped the US gold backing of the dollar to international creditors when France demanded gold. The result was the price of a barrel of oil quadrupled and has never been the same since. Good luck on the dept default.

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   dutchman1951posted 12 years ago

   the Interest on the Debt is approx. 10-11%, they will have to increase the ceiling to function. So why not pay the interest on the debt, and increase the ceiling togeather, that way the debt is not in default. From there cut the spending, in a controled and sensable maner. They will tax the country into poverty if they just go to Tax and Spend.
   
   They have to spur growth, not kill it. Nixon, closed the Gold window as an attempt to cap inflation that was at 5.4%. To stop the drain on our gold supply and devalue the US dollar even further. It was not a bad move, and something to be considered now. He limited all Countries ability to demand Gold as debt payment, or for purchase.
   
   Thats why I say Pay the Interest, not go into default. Pay it in Dollars, and keep the Gold backing as it is. Then reduce the spending. We have to.

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   recommend1posted 12 years ago

   Outside - it is common knowledge that the US is about to lose its AAA rating - one way or the other.  The Chinese were asked to buy US debt as a short term support, which they did, and recently sold 2 trillion of it on to other nations who are pretty much forced to support the US but are becoming unable to support even their own debts.
   
   It is becoming almost inevitable that the dollar will take a serious and permanent hit, and you will be forced to live within your means, reducing your forces, higher taxes etc etc.  If your Pres has any sense he will play the blinking game to the end and blame the other side for the chaos and so for what is inevitable anyway.

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      dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Thats why I say pay the Interest at least in full, and hold up the Gold backing. That way those who bought that debt get some form of payment, and since many countries agreed to peg their dollar to + -  1% of US dollar, by keeping the Gold backing up, we will not aid further in devaluing thier dollar any more than has already happened.
      
      as for blame, we are out of time for that stuff now, we need to pay the debt and be responsible.

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         recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

         The dollar is going to become unpegged anyway, the country as a whole is not going to get to grips with lower wages, standards and waning world influence.  It will be arough ride, it may as well get blamed on the people who caused it.

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            dutchman1951posted 12 years agoin reply to this

            I saw an article the other day about Hillary's comments concerning the US moving to the World Bank as it's banker?  been hunting for that to research what she was trying to say?  I am positive we will take a big hit in all of this, and we asked for it!
            
            problem with blame for us is it never lands on the real sources of the trouble.
            and I do have to agree that we will not get a grip on it. more like forced acceptance!

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               recommend1posted 12 years agoin reply to this

               The world bank is seen as an American controlled organisation generally I think, the short term respite that leaning on that will not stave off the inevitable.  The UK went through this in various stages over the years, from the Thatcher demolition of small businesses with the forced removal of everybody's savings, pensions and the residual value in their houses, to being 'told' how to run their economy by the IMF under the world bank.  The UK is now an expensive place to live a pretty dull life hovering at the edge of debt.  I welcome it in some respects as it will force the reduction of your armed forces and so reduce the aggressive belligerance of your foreign policies.

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   handymanbillposted 12 years ago

   one word answer NO

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      cupajoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You tell em Bill, I'm with you, Hell NO...... you guys have had enough money!!

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   TMMasonposted 12 years ago

   No! We will not raise the debt cieling.
   
   NO COMPROMISE!
   
   And not raising the Debt Ceiling will not put us in default.
   
   That is just a fact.
   
   http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/26 … c-mccarthy
   
   http://www.creditwritedowns.com/2011/05 … fault.html
   
   The Leant Leftists and Obama just do not want to have to stop spending on their lil programs. We all know the running story is we need 2.1 trillion more for investment, (stimulus), and that is their only concern. They want to break the bank so bad America can never re-gain it's economic footing, and if we allow this, they will have succeeded.
   
   it is akin to running into your room and smashing the piggy bank open to use the loose change in it to continue spending when you have no other funds. It leaves you with nothing, nada, not a dime to your name in case of emergency. If we allow this we will not have the money to sustain oursleves at all in the future, and that is all they want. For us to have nothing but lint in our pocket when this is done, so we can not even consider a way out of this hole they have put us in, when we take back our Govt..

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   mio cidposted 12 years ago

   I've heard that theory that the  teapartiers are advocating along with the ultraconservatives that are using them to finally acquire some power within the republican party which they had never been able to do before, and it goes like this:we don't have to default on the debt, we just have to prioritize our expenses,we'll pay the debt,pay social security, and our defense expenses,and if the government wants money for anything else they'll have to agree to our terms for anything else, that would be fine if you were talking about the corner grocery store but you are talking about the largest economy on the face of the earth i guess you don't even realize how silly what they are saying is.if the world economy is trembling because greece may go bankrupt or ireland what do you think would happen if the us all of a sudden went into a frozen economy, are you serious? think with your heads not with the mouth of the right wing nut agitators.

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      TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      We will not default just cause we do not raise the Debt Ceiling, that is a myth. We have plenty of money for our debts, just not for the Admins and leftist/Progressive to continue their lil programs ie;Stimuluses, 99 weeks UE, bailing out Cos, Bailing out foreclosures, etc..
      
      And that is a fact.

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      cupajoposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      That's what bothers me, right there
      
      "think with your heads not with the mouth of the right wing nut agitators."
      
      We are Americans, we are on the same side. We are all concerned about the same thing. There isn't any reason for that kind of talk.

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8. 59

   mio cidposted 12 years ago

   I guess as in everything else time will tell,but i think the republicans are putting themselves in a lose lose situation if they follow the lead of the right wing nuts and the teapartiers.

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   Moderndayslaveposted 12 years ago

   NO!

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      Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      The debt ceiling must be raised. After the Bush administration pi$$ed away the surplus of the Clinton administration with tax cuts for the rich, the republicans voted to raise the debt ceiling 8 times.
      
      EIGHT TIMES.
      
      Now there's a democrat in the White House and the debt that republicans ran up is HIS fault, and raising the debt ceiling is heresy.
      
      Raising the debt ceiling is neither the answer or the issue. We have to raise taxes to historically normal levels, about 30% of GDP.

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         TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         There was no surplus from Clinton, that is a myth, only if we stuck to a certain plan for a decade after he left office did they predict a surplus. That money did not exist in our treasury and would never have appeared.
         
         The simple fact is if these pols cannot get it together in the amount of time they have, then to expect another admin and several different Congresses to not change course, is just assinine.
         
         The next one has 4 years to show his plan works or he is out also. Do not come squaking about a 20 year or 15 year plan. You have 4 to 8 years learn to work within it, or do not bothering applying for the job.

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            Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            What a mccarthish response.
            
            Just deny the Clinton surplus was a fact. Never mind the facts. Reality is what you pretend.
            
            Here's something else to deny. In the eight years of the Clinton administration, (with higher taxes) economic growth averaged over 4%.
            
            Under Bush, with tax cuts for the rich, economic growth for his eight years averaged 1.6%.
            
            The myth (lie) is that taxes kill jobs. The don't. Otherwise, the Bush economy would have taken off. It crashed and burned. We are still fighting the flames.

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               TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yes apply all the internet bubbles to Clinton, and the housing bubbles... whatever doug. The fact is all the bubbles burst as they had been planned to.
               
               This decline is and was not unexpected to to those in power on both sides. A managed decline of our reconomy is what is in progress. Period. Go play your blame game with soemone else. This is all of their faults.

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                  Doug Hughesposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Cute.  You spend 80% of your time trying to blame everything but bad weather on liberals.
                  
                  When I show clearly how the debt and deficit can and should be pinned on conservative policies....
                  
                  You are suddenly bipartisan.
                  
                  Is anyone too blind to see through your act?

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                     TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     Dude go read my profile.
                     
                     I have never claimed to be a republican. I am an Independent Conservative... get it? Got it? Good. And you haven't shown anything clearly... nor at all. You a partisan hhack that cannot see they have all sold us out. But the can all rightly be called leant leftists because because they are Progressives.
                     
                     I have spewed as much hate against the Progressive Right Republicans as I have against the Leant Leftists. So don't even try that BS Doug.

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                  mio cidposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  so, where do i start here ,it's funny how the republicans and the pseudo conservatives like to have it both ways , if the clinton surplus never existed because it was ten years into the future neither does the obama trillions of dollars  deficit exists because it is also ten years into the future. the reality is that when bush took office there were surpluses as far as the eye could see, and i remember the debates the republicans were in on the use to give such surpluses,if they didn't exist what were they talking about?when bush left office there were already massive deficits and an economy bordering collapse as well as the whole financial system with the possibility of another great depression which was avoided by the measures taken by the obama adm.

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                     TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     That deficit is real... what a laugh. you do not understand that owing someone is real. But to project that you will have money, is not... that is fairly simple.
                     
                     I can say I think I will have a million dollars in ten years... most likely I will not, and it is not real just cause I say it.
                     
                     I owe my mortgage for the next 30 years... it is real, it is there, and I owe it.
                     
                     Simple.
                     
                     And I am sure the Progressives were right there devising ways to spend money they did not have. I saw it too. So? They all spend what we do not have all the time.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Clintion was the first and last recent president to balance the budget. That is a fact!

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               TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Oh please...
               
               How r u Ralph? Happy Fourth!...
               
               Oh please...

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10. 59

    mio cidposted 12 years ago

    we are americans you're right, but are we on the same side? i for one am an american who a few years back the teapartiers and the right wing nuts  if they could have their way would have  put me on a boat and have me deported along with my family.I LISTEN TO THE RIGHT WING NUT TALKING HEADS ALL DAY LONG DAY IN AND DAY OUT SOME TIMES USING CODE LANGUAGE AND SOMETIMES RIGHT OUT IN PLAIN ENGLISH TALKING TRASH ABOUT MINORITIES AND HOW WE ARE DRIVING THE COUNTRY INTO BANKRUPTCY,WHEN THE STATES BUDGETS ARE IN TROUBLE IT'S THE FAULT OF THE WORKING MAN BECAUSE THROUGH THE YEARS WE HAVE MANAGED TO EARN A DECENT WAGE, SAME GOES FOR THE AUTO INDUSTRY,THEY WERE GOING UNDER BECAUSE THE WORKERS EARNED 70 DOLLARS AN HOUR( WHICH IS NOT TRUE IN ALL CASES) AND NOT BECAUSE THE INEPT PEOPLE RUNNING THOSE COMPANIES DID NOT REINVEST IN THEIR OWN COMPANIES AND FELL YEARS BEHIND TECHNOLOGICALLY FROM THE ASIANS AND EUROPEANS AND JUST SUCKED EVERY PENNY OUT FROM THEIR OWN COMPANIES,AND LET ME TELL YOU SOMETHING WHEN UNION WORKERS GAIN BENEFITS THEY HAVE GIVEN UP THINGS IN EXCHANGE BECAUSE EVERYTHING WAS DONE THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS.FOR THE REPUBLICANS IT'S GREEDY AND ENVIOUS TO NOT KEEP GIVING SUBSIDIES TO  THE POOR OIL COMPANIES, AND TAX BREAKS TO THE BIG CORPORATIONS , BUT IT'S A GREAT THING TO TAKE BENEFITS AWAY FROM TEACHERS, PUBLIC EMPLOYEES, OR PRIVATE SECTOR WORKERS. IT'S NOT BY CHANCE THAT BLACK VOTERS VOTE OVER 90% DEMOCRAT AND US HISPANICS  THANK GOD ARE HEADED IN THAT DIRECTION AS WELL AS MOST IMMIGRANT AND MINORITY POPULATION.SO I DON'T TAKE ANYTHING PERSONALLY, I LOVE POLITICS AND I SEE IT AS I WOULD LOOK  AT A SPORTING EVENT, SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT I HAVE LOVED THE MOST IN MY LIFE , MY GRANDFATHER AND GRANDMOTHER AND HALF MY FAMILY ARE CONSERVATIVES OR RIGHTIES, AND I GREW UP DEBATING POLITICS AT THE DINNER TABLE SO THE FACT THAT SOMEONE DISAGREES POLITICALLY DOESN'T MEAN HE OR SHE IS NOT  A GOOD PERSON, BUT WHEN ELECTION SEASON COMES AROUND I TRY TO WORK HARD SO  THAT AS MANY PEOPLE AS POSSIBLE VOTE FOR THE DEMOCRATS AND HOPE AS MANY REPUBLICANS AS POSSIBLE SEE THE LIGHT AND CHANGE SIDES.

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    TMMasonposted 12 years ago

    The only ones we, Conservatives and most Americans, want to deport are illegal immigrants, as per US Federal Law. They should go home and come and back in the right way, like the LEGAL immigrants.
    
    We, America, are no longer going to reward any criminal behaviour. Alot of people have worked hard and done the right thing to come here, and we will not allow anyone to screw those people and allow illegal aliens to cut into line ahead of them.
    
    If you think it is right to screw the people who have waited and done all we have asked of them to enter legally, then I don't know what to tell you.
    
    If you hate immigrants that bad... wow!
    
    To think we should screw the honorable people, who as applying immigrants have worked so hard to become LEGAL Americans and earn their entrance into this country the correct and LEGAL way, then that is some raw hatred of good folk.
    
    I mean that is hatred of our most valuble immigrant American friends... for criminals, to support criminal law-breakers.
    
    Jeesh... no wonder Mexico is in such a screwed up cartel ruled state of affairs.
    
    Think about it, I mean if no laws have any value, then chaos rules indeed.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       'The only ones we, Conservatives and most Americans, want to deport are illegal immigrants, as per US Federal Law. They should go home and come and back in the right way, like the LEGAL immigrants."
       
       Deporting 12 million undocumented immigrants would be impractical, unfair and disruptive as Bush, McCain and many Democrats and Republicans who supported a comprehensive immigration reform approach recognized.

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    mio cidposted 12 years ago

    believe it or not all hispanic immigrants are not from mexico, i for one am not of mexican descent,i won't bother to mention which country i'm from because obviously to the extremist right wing mind anything south of the rio grande is mexico.another mistake is to think all 20 million illegal aliens are criminals they are not wether you like it or not to be here illegally is not a crime it may not be proper in your view but is not a crime therefore illegals are not criminals, you may want to call them that but you may also want to call them many things and thar really doesn't mean anything.

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    TMMasonposted 12 years ago

    Read my post and you will see Mexico is used specifically as an example of chaos from ignoring the need to enforce laws. Not for immigrants' origins. Though a large proportion of illegal immigrants are from Mexico, it is to be expected, they are right there.
    
    It is a long way from South America, and I am well aware they come from all over South America and the Islands, and Russia and Europe, and all around the world. And they all must go. Period! Regardless of race or religion, or country of origin, your illegal, go home and do it again the right way. Simple.
    
    Race has nothing to do with it and was not even mentioned in my post. Mexico was as an example of lawlessness when the rule of law is ignored or set aside.
    
    And if you are an illegal immigrant, you are a criminal by defiinition, thus the term "illegal". All we want is for everyone to do the process in the correct and "legal" way. We would also deport Russians, and Chinese and anyone else man. Race is not the issue... "Legal Status", is.

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       jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Just one doubt,
       When your forefathers migrated from Europe and forced the Indians out of their homeland, was that legal?

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    mio cidposted 12 years ago

    "Racial policies regarding the Jews between 1933 to 1940
    
    Between 1933 and 1934, Nazi policy was fairly moderate, not wishing to scare off voters or moderately minded politicians (although the eugenics program was established as early as July 1933).[5] On August 25, 1933, the Nazis even signed the Haavara Agreement with Zionists to allow German Jews to emigrate to Palestine—by 1939, 60,000 German Jews had emigrated there. The Nazi Party used populist anti-semitic views to gain votes. Using the "stab-in-the-back legend", they blamed POVERTY, the HYPERINFLATION in the Weimar Republic, UNEMPLOYMENT, and the loss of World War I by the "November Criminals" all on the Jews, Marxists and 'cultural Bolsheviks'. German woes were attributed to the effects of the Treaty of Versailles. In 1933, persecution of the Jews became active Nazi policy. This was at first hindered by the lack of agreement on who qualified as a Jew or Aryan, which caused legislators to balk at an anti-Semitic law for its ill-defined terms.[5] Bernhard Lösener described it "TOTAL CHAOS", with local authorities regarding anything from full Jewish background to 1⁄8 Jewish blood defining a Jew; Achim Gercke urged 1⁄16 Jewish blood.[6] Mischlinge were especially problematic in their eyes.[7] The first anti-Semitic law was promologated with no clear definition of Jew.[8] Finally, the decision was made for three or four Jewish grandparents; two or one rendered a person a Mischlinge.[9] It only became worse with the years, culminating in the Holocaust, or so-called "Final Solution", which was made official at the January 1942 Wannsee Conference.
    
    On April 1, 1933, the Nazi boycott of Jewish businesses was observed throughout Germany. Only six days later, the Law for the Restoration of the Professional Civil Service was passed, banning Jews from government jobs. It is notable that the proponents of this law, and the several thousand more that were to follow, most frequently explained them as necessary to prevent the infiltration of damaging, "ALIEN-TYPE" (Artfremd) hereditary traits into the German national or racial community (Volksgemeinschaft).[10] These laws meant that Jews were now indirectly and directly dissuaded or banned from privileged and superior positions reserved for "Aryan Germans". From then on, Jews were forced to work at more menial positions, becoming second-class citizens or to the point they were "ILLEGALLY RESIDING" in Nazi Germany."NOTICE ANY SIMILARITIES WITH THE POSITION OF THE RIGHT WING NUTS HERE IN THE US IN 2011?THANK GOD THE 20 MILLION OR SO WHO LISTEN TO LIMBAUGH, HANNITY ,BECK, AND THE REST OF THE RIGHT WING LOONS are not enough to win anybody an election and the mass deportation they hope for will never happen BECAUSE THE MAJORITY OF AMERICANS ARE NOT BIGOTS AND RACISTS.

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       lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Very true. To listen to them; immigrants, muslims, planned parenthood, acorn, unions and teachers have ruined America.
       Un-blippin believable.
       
       Whatever the Right-Wing says: Do the opposite!!!
       
       Their only concern is big money and their big money friends. Period.
       Show one instance with this Repub House where it has not been! Just one.
       
       These Repub Governors are making a play to sell off our country!! And ONE of them wants to be President!!! (Perry the Plutocrat.)
       
       We need our country back allright.....from the monied interests who stole it.
       It is not equal blame, and we do not all want the same thing.
       That is patently obvious.

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       TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Big deal. If you think this nation is NAZI Germany then you should be booted out first. Disgusted that someone could spout that BS and then claim to love this country. BS!
       
       Everything is RACE to you RACISTS... what a joke you and Chris are.

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          lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          TMMason:
          "Obama is a racist pig who hates America."
          
          And you claim love for America.
          
          Did you just call me a racist?
          A racist AND an anti-semite!
          Wow, I've got all bases covered.
          
          WISH I could be full of love like you.

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             TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             You admitted that yourself. You sat here and admitted it last nite. Though as I pointed out, the name is a misgnomer.
             
             So be proud of it.
             
             I said... I should hope you wouldn't support the racists and their racist agenda to screw the people already in line, and doing the IMMIGRATION process the LEGAL way by cutting the CRIMNAL ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS into the front of line ahead of them.
             
             That would be very hateful of you all.
             
             I am simply pointing out facts, Chris. It would be awfully mean of you all, and actually quite racist.

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                lovemychrisposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                "You admitted that yourself."
                
                Oh balloney...admitted what?
                
                So, the FACT is Obama hates white people,and America?
                
                
                
                "Everything is RACE to you RACISTS"--That's what you said.
                I am a racist and an anti-semite.
                Obama is a racist and an anti-semite.....anyone else??
                
                And you...why you are as pure as the driven snow..as are all Baglicans and leant righty's.
                
                As you have stated...you want all leant leftist out of government.
                
                Tyranny, what? Pip Pip Cheerios.

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                   TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Obama admitted it too...
                   
                   And yes you did, last nit. You said you hate the Jews simply for being in Israel...., that is Anti-Semitic.
                   
                   You cannot hate someone for living somewhere... isn't that what you all say about illegals? Even though I know no Conservatives who hate Illegals, we just seek to protect the rights of the Immigrants who are trying to enter Legally, and defend the Soveriegnty and integrity of our borders.
                   
                   But the Left... that is a different story.

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    mio cidposted 12 years ago

    @tmmason, i know you righties hate what you call screwls, but you should at least know how to read i didn't say america is nazi germany i said that the ideology of you, the extreme righties and teapartiers who thank god are a small minority of americans has a lot in comon with the views on foreigners held by the nazi authorities.and I do love this country i worked hard for many years , payed thousands of dollars in lawyers and government fees to become an american citizen ,came as a child in 1972 with my parents and it took me 20 years to become a permanent resident  and another 5 to become a citizen and fortunatelly as much as you may want it you and the rest of the bigots and racists are not booting anybody out of this country any time soon.

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    lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

    "You said you hate the Jews simply for being in Israel...., that is Anti-Semitic."
    
    I reported that. One day you will stop lying and smearing Mason.
    Now, let's see if it sticks.
    
    sorry for interrupting Ralph.....the voice of clear reason!!!

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    lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

    "the bigots and racists are not booting anybody out of this country any time soon."
    
    They're going to learn the hard way.
    Just as gays are "Barbarians" in some eyes (Bachmann's hubby), all people of color seem to have this stigma put on them.
    And women...who apparently are too sub-human to make decisions regarding their own lives, and who still earn .78 cents to the dollar of men.
    
    You are right though...we have come too far to go back now!

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    TMMasonposted 12 years ago

    You know Ralph, I have no problem, and many on the Right do not either, to closing loop-holes, but we will not raise taxes to support Govt. stimuluses and Social Welfare-type programs.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Well, perhaps we're not totally at odds.

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          TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Not as much as many would put us.
          
          We will not compromise about raising taxes, but loop-holes are a perversion we could do without. Especially since we are cutting all the subsidies. No tricks to go around the way anymore, but we also have to get Cos. and their monies back to our shores, and that will not happen with the cost of labor what it is, and the Capitol and Corp. Gains taxes what they are. And the regulations as they are now are a strangling factor to American Bussiness growth, so something has to be done there also, and many other ares.
          
          So much yet to be debated, I believe.
          
          And no it is not a Deocrat Republican thing, it is a Socialist/Progressive thing.

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    mio cidposted 12 years ago

    I always saw people that had archie bunker like behavior or opinions but I had never seen  someone that was the incarnation of the character as wholly  as you which really makes me wonder if you are not just pulling our leg and being sort of a hubpages stephen colbert.

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       TMMasonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       We have seen what happens when we leave the Mikes and Glorias of the world in charge.
       
       And we have had enough of it.

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          mio cidposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          @TMMason come on ,the mikes and gloria in charge?are you kidding?we just came out of a warmonging administration by the republican party that started a war under false premises of weapons of mass destruction ,and a war in afghanistan that they knew would be difficult, long, and extremely costly and that the soviet empire had recently historically speaking have to abandon in defeat unable to accomplish anything. I understand that to you anybody to the left of il duce is a socialist or  communist , but to the normal thinking person the fact that you would call the bush adm. leftist is just ridiculous.this is undoubtedly a center right country politically speaking, i as a LBRL recognize that, but center right is very very different from the extreme nutcase minority that are holding the republican party hostage through loudmouth talking heads.

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    lovemychrisposted 12 years ago

    Cantor could rake in windfall if debt ceiling isn’t raised
    
    "House Majority Leader Eric Cantor's (R-VA) latest financial disclosure statement indicates that he owns up to $15,000 of ProShares Trust Ultrashort 20+ Year Treasury EFT, a fund that will likely skyrocket as U.S. debt becomes less desirable.
    
    "If the debt ceiling isn’t raised, investors would start fleeing U.S. Treasuries," Motley Fool's Matt Koppenheffer told Salon. "Yields would rise, prices would fall, and the Proshares ETF should do very well. It would spike."
    
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/06/30/c … nt-raised/
    
    I've been watching this story and will add these 2.
    
    http://dailybail.com/home/senators-husb … risis.html
    
    http://stopforeclosurefraud.com/2011/06 … chs-bonds/

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    Ralph Deedsposted 12 years ago

    NYTimes Republican op-ed columnist says it's "The Mother of All No-Brainers."
    
    If the Republican Party were a normal party, it would take advantage of this amazing moment. It is being offered the deal of the century: trillions of dollars in spending cuts in exchange for a few hundred billion dollars of revenue increases.
    
    A normal Republican Party would seize the opportunity to put a long-term limit on the growth of government. It would seize the opportunity to put the country on a sound fiscal footing. It would seize the opportunity to do these things without putting any real crimp in economic growth.
    
    The party is not being asked to raise marginal tax rates in a way that might pervert incentives. On the contrary, Republicans are merely being asked to close loopholes and eliminate tax expenditures that are themselves distortionary.
    
    This, as I say, is the mother of all no-brainers.
    
    But we can have no confidence that the Republicans will seize this opportunity. That’s because the Republican Party may no longer be a normal party. Over the past few years, it has been infected by a faction that is more of a psychological protest than a practical, governing alternative.
    
    http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/05/opini … ;st=Search

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    TMMasonposted 12 years ago

    Bush is a Progressive.
    
    Yes. Mikes and Glorias.... simple.
    
    Anf if you think only Conservatives can become Facists... then you have no clue.
    
    The America Left has never went to war?

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