I'm Saying Nothing

1. 81

   Mark Ewbieposted 12 years ago

   Actually I am.  It will probably get me banned.  Hey ho.
   
   When Misha left I said nothing.
   
   When Ryan left, twice or more – I still said nothing.
   
   When the others went… you know the rest.
   
   As my favourite E’s started to disappear I said nothing.
   
   As people pulled their hubs, still nothing.
   
   I watched the suggested changes and the effect on traffic, which was nothing, and I said nothing.
   
   I saw the suggestions ignored, and the rudeness, and I said nothing.
   
   I watched as people got banned, and said nothing.
   
   I noticed Hubs disappearing and… nothing.
   
   I did moan about my traffic though. What happened? Nothing.
   
   I made some suggestions and ‘they’ said nothing.
   
   Meanwhile the tidal wave of crap continues.  I hear the praise from the condemned for all the changes which achieve nothing, and I say nothing.
   
   I log in every day to a new set of problems caused by kneejerk reactions and inadequate testing, and I say nothing.
   
   I watch in horror at spam advertising accompanying my hubs and I say nothing.  Well not very much anyway.
   
   I see my internet friends, the ones who guided and helped me, and made HP a great place to be… leave.
   
   Should I continue to say nothing?

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      Sally's Troveposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      You know what? You care. And I care. As many wonderful long-time Hubbers have, and have said as much. But our words seem to be falling on deaf ears. How far does caring go?
      
      So now you've added your refreshing voice about saying nothing which is saying everything.
      
      Guess that's where we are.

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2. 58

   TattooVirginposted 12 years ago

   I think you just said it ALL

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3. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   It would be nice of there was a staff member that gave some feedback on whether the PTB notice, know, care, are working on, have plans to address this stuff. Including the apparent avalanche of recent glitches, but also just their overall 2.0/post-panda strategy.  I just like to feel like the captain has his hands on the wheel and has seen the icebergs....

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4. 76

   shoganposted 12 years ago

   Mark, you and I joined HP around the same time, and while you have been far more prolific than I in publishing hubs and posting in the forums, neither one of us has been here that long.  Unfortunately, we got a peek at pre-Panda, which made the fall that much worse, but still, neither one of us (I suspect) has had any kind of earnings bonanza.
   
   My advice to you is to relax.  You've been far more active here, yes, but I'm not sure that's been altogether positive.  Your good humor is strained and you're looking for control over something you can't control.  Take some time off from HP, but leave your hubs; explore other parts of the web, or better yet, turn the computer off altogether.  Come back after a good, long breather.  When you spend as much time as you have investing in a site, your days seem like years and your time seems exponentially more frustrating.
   
   Ok, go ahead and tell me to $#%@ myself now. 

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   1. 81

      Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I won't tell you to $#%@ yourself.  Only one small element of my post was about traffic.
      
      Personally, I think I do my best work when strained...

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      1. 76

         shoganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Just so you know, it's not that I disagree with you about anything.  I just don't think it's a good idea for anyone to invest him/herself in a website too much.  The whole experience becomes distorted.
         
         C'mon, now...you sorta wanted to tell me to $#%@ myself just now.

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         1. 81

            Mark Ewbieposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No. I didn't. Honest.

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5. 84

   psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

   I think there is a difference between seeking information and seeking control.

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      shoganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      A distinct lack of information is a statement of control, psycheskinner.  We don't have it.

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6. 70

   Cagsilposted 12 years ago

   So much for saying nothing.

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7. 80

   Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years ago

   Show me another website as good as this one, and I'll say nothing.
   
   Show me another website that is working as hard as staff on this one to overcome the pandaganda, and I'll be shocked, and say nothing.
   
   Show me that the people that left here are doing better wherever they ran off to, and I'll say nothing.
   
   Till then, let me say something - this is still the best open publishing site on the net, and my Google traffic is truly coming back to pre pandaganda levels.  Not only that, but HP staff is still working on improving the site from ever end, and in every way.  Oh yeah - don't get me started on the way my hubs get moderated while there is still obvious spam to be messing with instead, but this is the best adsense publishing site on the net, and regardless of how good your info barrel or blogger content is - those sites don't get the Google traffic that this site still gets. 
   
   Over and out.

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   1. 77

      frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I've worked offsite (on my own sites) for the last few months. I'm now seeing a return for my effort. At the very least I'm seeing a bigger rise in income than I did when I first started on Hubpages.
      
      Fact of the matter is that I now outrank some of my HP stuff, using the same keywords. I did that on purpose, I experimented and used different methods than what's been used here.
      
      I could because I have complete control. And I haven't been on a spamming spree or dropping detritus all over the 'net. I've worked hard.

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         Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I admire that.  I'd like to have my own site someday, and I will!  I only don't know how to go about it all at the moment.

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         1. 77

            frogdroppingposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Take what you know has been working for you among your hubs and build a site a round that. That's as good as any place to start.
            
            And there are still plenty of very good, very relevant articles on Hubpages that detail just how to go about building a web site. There is nothing wrong (whatsoever) with diversifying.
            
            No matter what the (bad) external press likes to spew about the content on Hubpages, a great deal of it is written extremely well, by experts and/or highly experienced individuals.
            
            Where do you think I learned everything that I now know? From hubbers.

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            1. 39

               Greg Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Yeah, I've definitely come across few Hubbers that with a little self-marketing know-how could build a decent income for themselves... but no matter how many articles they write, that same income just isn't going to come from here alone.
               
               Flip side is, of course that they gained exposure here and can continue to do so.
               
               Not a bad deal IMO.

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8. 75

   Reality Bytesposted 12 years ago

   For what I am paying to use Hubpages I cannot complain. 

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      shoganposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Criminy, I can!  Did everyone else get walloped with that $575.00 entrance fee?

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   2. 70

      Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Reality, you haven't a clue what you are paying HP, to be honest. What HP makes from the 40% of shared impressions isn't known, on an individual level.
      
      If you're under the impression, just because it's free to sign up and use, there is a cost.
      
      Just a thought.

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      1. 80

         Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Info Barrel - the most HP like site that I know of, pays it's authors a 75/25 split in their favour - which is better than HP's 60/40. . . .but guess what?  They have to!  They don't get nearly the traffic that HP gets!
         
         When it comes right down to it - this site gives me an awesome platform to talk about MOST anything I want, and make some money from that - I can take that or leave it.
         
         I'll take it.  I'm appreciative.

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   3. 80

      Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Exactly.  I've got some checks from my work here - and I had fun doing this, and still do.  Hubpages - BEST site on the net for authors and web scribblers like me.

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9. 39

   Greg Sageposted 12 years ago

   Well, Mark.
   
   I haven't been here long, but I have acquired a modest staff whose subsistence depends on HP ad revenues.  True, they work for peanuts,but...
   
   
   Just tryin' to cheer you up, buddy.
   
   I'd draw you some ice cream or a puppy or something, but I don't share your gift.
   
   I'd say it's a safe bet regardless that depending on ANY site for long-term consistency is bound to lead to disappointment... or any woman for that matter, but let's not go there.
   
   Call me a newbie, but I've run a couple small companies before, and I always try to put myself in the owner's shoes.  Right now, I think they're having some tech difficulties which they will get through, but I think they're also still not sure themselves how to steer... and are trying to second guess ripples in SEO that haven't even happened yet.
   
   So... it's part making changes you know need to happen and suffering the backlash, and part trying to second-guess future panda attacks and the like.
   
   Overall, though, a couple basics seem fairly clear to me:
   
   First, both for new and future ranking updates, getting rid of obvious spammy peddling is probably in everyone's collective best interests.  Google is only going to get better over time at sniffing out and penalizing behavior which craps all over the internet just to sell a product or give a false sense of authority.  Better to be ahead of that curve than to keep banging your head against it repeatedly.
   
   Second, The other sites have their share of issues as well.  I did a lot of careful looking at Squidoo, Blogger, IB, EZ, etc. lately, and there's a lot of griping to go around.  You think things got rough here, try talking to some folks at the content mills.
   
   Could HP be more communicative about their direction?  Sure.
   
   The truth is, though, I don't think they've got it all figured out, and some of the stuff being tried might take a while to measure even if it were already finished.
   
   That's bound to cause some issues, and bound to piss some people off... and it's not gonna be all better any time soon.

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   1. 77

      Sally's Troveposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      For being on HP for two weeks, you sure do speak with authority.
      
      Guessing you are someone else, too.
      
      And about your crack about women...so sorry for your pain, but I can't believe you're not at fault.

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      1. 39

         Greg Sageposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I'm not pretending it's authority.  I thought I was clear about that. 
         
         2 weeks on HP, but 27 years of business ownership experience including 2 companies that had the rug pulled out from under them and had to reinvent themselves in a new climate with unclear rules.
         
         I had one business that had hundreds of Careerbuilder ads.  My ads all around the country were in all the top spots all the time... they never dropped off the first page. I got so effective at skewing the system that they changed their rules and did reprogramming just to stop me.
         
         Talk about taking a hit in a singe day.
         
         I had another where we had a couple million in equipment installed in a local hospital... and the hospital went under.
         
         Makes Panda look like a cute kitty.
         
         
         
         The whole vibe of the situation just seems eerily familiar to me, and like something I intuitively understand from the business owner's point of view... even though the SEO particulars are only recent obsessions.
         
         
         
         
         No.  Just me.

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10. 84

    psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago

    I shifted most of my effort to my own blogs, that proved to be a pretty good idea.  But I keep my Hubs ticking over too.

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11. 77

    frogdroppingposted 12 years ago

    No it's not Greg. But those that I've learned from earned far more than I did on HP, and still do off-site.
    
    The positive side of everything that's happened since Feb is that I've been able to practice everything I'd learned, without the support that HP offered. Back then I wrote something and between the favour the site possessed and a little luck I'd publish something that worked.
    
    At least that's how it was for me. Repeating the same without HP's platform hasn't been without difficulty but I'm getting there and despite the fact that I (like many, many others - don't believe the rubbish that earning potential on HP was BS, they definitely weren't) lost pretty much everything I was making here, it's good to know that hard work still (slowly) pays off.

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12. 77

    LuisEGonzalezposted 12 years ago

    Call me naive, but from my experiences with other sites; Ezine and Examiner to be more precise, HubPages is still the best open site out there. I have also noticed that they are really trying to combat the Panda thing on several fronts. So for now and I think for quite a long while I will be staying around. 

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       Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Remember, you said it first and your post does resemble your own remark.

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       1. 77

          LuisEGonzalezposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          Be nice..lol, I understand what you mean but I really believe that HP will recover and not having a big overhead makes this more likely than on other sites with a bigger overhead. At least we can try to stay hopeful. 

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          1. 70

             Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             

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                LuisEGonzalezposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Don't know if you're being sarcastic or just amused Cags, but honestly, if any site has any change of recovering it's HP, unless Google renews their detrimental changes and appends to further surfeit a continual array of vicissitudes on HP.......   

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                   prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                   Hi Luis, are you a singer?

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                   1. 77

                      LuisEGonzalezposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                      Only in the shower.

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                      1. 62

                         prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                         did you ever try as a "back up" singer or you prefer solo vocals

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                         1. 77

                            LuisEGonzalezposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                            My dear I don't sing, I have acted in some Spanish soap operas and on some commercials and done several public speaking gigs, but singing is not my forte.

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             thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this

             What makes you think HP has a low overhead lol? Central San Francisco office space, large number of staff, huge monthly sever costs.

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             1. 77

                LuisEGonzalezposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                Compared to their number of staff (less than 36 at last count) their small office space and measured against other sites, yes their overhead is minuscule in comparison

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13. 73

    Barbara Kayposted 12 years ago

    I decided to start putting my efforts into a couple of other sites.
    I hated their publishing options compared to Hubpages.
    
    The  possible future here at Hubpages does worry me, as the top writers keep leaving. Eventually it has to settle down. Let's hope
    Google changes in favor of Hubpages eventually.

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14. 77

    Shadesbreathposted 12 years ago

    Look, HP's ridiculous pop up trials and wierd expanding ad crap is lame, and it's running off readers. I am with you. They are striving so hard for the right answers, and I know that, technologically speaking, it must be sooooo hard. But they need to quit with the stooopid ads that they know are annoying. They have to play for the long run. That crap is short run desperation.
    
    I don't know much, but what I Do know is that truth, honesty, integrity, and commitment to genuine customer experience always pays off long term. I get you have to survive right now, but you can't cash out the future with bandaid repairs forever. You have to work something genuine into the core again. It was like that at first.
    
    HP... STOP PUTTING CRAP ADS ON MY STUFF. I write really good content here. Don't F------ it with that stuff. Trust me, you need entertaining content here.
    
    However, that said, I have to be honest. My booksite and blog about my novel coming out (Blog HERE) have tons of sources of traffic. I have lots of stuff I do. But you know what, there are two sources of traffic that are constant and huge... Facebook and Hubpages.
    
    Do I make money off HP anymore? Not really.
    
    Do I get exposure? Yep.
    
    So, while I think they are in a lame phase of flopping around trying to fix stuff, I also think they are really bright people who care and are trying.
    
    So, am I irritated? Yes. Do I want them to find real solutions not quickie ones? Yes. Am I willing to have patience and allow the humans trying to do this sh!t time to figure it out in a complicated world of ever-changing and relentless competition? Yes. I hope they do, because I like them and respect what they did so far. (And I confess, I didn't build a financial empire on them... I did, however, build something of a brand... so they need to not screw that up.)

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15. 79

    bgpappaposted 12 years ago

    To the OP, well said.
    
    Most importantly, when someone posts a thoughtful critique of the recent changes:  HP's response:  they say nothing.

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16. 75

    Richieb799posted 12 years ago

    You have some valid complaints but I think Hubpages is trying
    
    Even Ryan will tell you this business requires an enormous amount of effort and even then it comes down to a degree of luck whether you earn big. I've been lucky to have a small slice of that luck

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17. 61

    saleheensblogposted 12 years ago

    I said nothing and I died.
    I said and I was killed.
    I said nothing and I Left.

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18. 62

    prettydarkhorseposted 12 years ago

    You say it best when you say nothing at all, you said everything and left nothing..

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       Wesman Todd Shawposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       Keith Whitley references make me smile, purty girl!

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          prettydarkhorseposted 12 years agoin reply to this

          aha,,,fine then

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19. 60

    tobey100posted 12 years ago

    Might as well throw my two cents in:  Been here 19 months and have had a blast.  'Course I ain't tryin' to get famous, rich or become the most popular writer in the HP community.  I'm just having fun.  Don't care about the glitches.  Don't care about scores.  Don't even care I was banned by AdSense and never found out why.  I got a real life in the real world.  This is for fun, ain't it?

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20. 70

    thisisoliposted 12 years ago

    You might want to look at how many daily views it took them just to break even

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