world without religion?

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Knight6posted 12 years ago
what do you think the world would be like without religion and why?this question is for all believers and nonbelievers
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The western world will be very similar. Eastern world will probably be similar too.
  
  Twin towers might still be here...
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  Knight6posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  twin towers possibly western world would be the same too but i think the eastern world would be in a spot of bother or maybe no bother?????
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some wars wouldnt exist anymore, but I'm sure people would find something else to fight over.
  
  A friend of mine told me how islam spread into a poor area of his country because they offered free food to the poor so they converted.
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  kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is dependent on the one looking in..
  
  ...for it can appear to be without form, void, totally desolation or it ..not even a wind stirring in the street...
  
  This is because it is totally void of Light and Truth.
  
  ......or It will appear as perfect all things synchronized, united working for and towards he common good for one and all nothing appearing as itself but all appearing as the same...
  
  This is because it is filled with Light and Truth.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  People would be harder to control. They would fight harder for material things. They would be less concerned with what is right and be more concerned with what feels good right now. People would be less apt to forgive, they would be less apt to let go of grievences, since there would be no judgement/punishment later.
  Money would be even more powerful than it is now, and no one would be willing to accept a lesser life, for the greater good. Those that were lesser would kill off the talented. Anything that could be killed would be killed unless it's existence in some way made the powerful's existence better.
  
  Simply put we would be a whole lot more animal, and less higher purpose.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's a pretty negative thought. WOW!
  This statement says that humans are just no good to begin with. And, that's actually not true.
  No one accepts it now, so what's your point.
  I'm not touching this ridiculous statement at all. It's that absurd.
  Higher purpose? Really? It's people's lack of understanding purpose that has the world in this freaking mess to begin with.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Case in point, this discussion would not happen. I would not waste my precious and finite time searching for answers. I would simply take what you have for my pleasure and kill you if you tried to stop me. Why wouldn't I?
  
  And people do accept lesser lives, all the time. The white race allowing affirmitive action to be created is proof.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well one would think that you would have a standard(conscience) to know what's right, but I guess you don't.
  There are many people who understand that life isn't about them and if that means living a lesser life, then it's done so, because it's right and they found happiness in doing it.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ??? So not 15 minutes ago you stated people don't accept lesser lives and now you're saying they do because it must make them happy?
  
  Figure out which story you want to go with and stick with it. Instead of using what ever comes to mind that supports what you want to be true.
  
  ...Oh...and...Uhmm
  
  Thanks for playing.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I swear, you're not the sharpest tool in the toolbox.
  
  People don't actually accept lesser life. They accept their life and what they have, which brings them to acceptance of finding a happy place. Their life isn't lesser, per se.
  
  Some people choose to not have much in their life, because they have found happiness with what they have in their life.
  
  Again, neither is accepting a lesser life. It's your foolish perception that's f'd up.
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Scary. I disagree with this. I think have a little more faith in humanity. There are plenty of people who don't follow a religion and still act in a moral ethical way. There are also plenty of religious people do immoral horrible things.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You've merely described the world we live in today governed by the religious.
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  wanzulfikriposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  For me, everything comes from religion. Somehow, religion is needed to give pure satisfaction in life. My teacher once said to me that people who have no religion will never be entirely satisfied no matter how happy he seems to be. That's just one perspective on how to look at it.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can tell your teacher they are dead wrong and ignorant. Terrible teacher.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am only answering this question out of respect for you. They found a tribe in New Guinea who had never had any outside contact with anyone. They had no religion. They did believe there was a spirit watching over them, but did not elaborate in any way. They had no possessive words in their language. No mine or yours. They did not even have words to denote person, like me or you or us. They were not aggressive in anyway outside of fishing and hunting. Anger was foreign to them. They helped each other in every way and had no real need for privacy. They mated for life with no ceremony. They only lived hand to mouth, day by day and were contrrnted to do so.They were not in captivity like we are.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In other words, there's no God?
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  Moonchild60posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That sounds so wonderful and clearly there is no God, just a spirit they believe watches over them. Wow, that sounds like a simple wonderful fulfilling existence.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well aren't you cute
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Go write a hub you drive by quipper.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Being unaware that something exists doesn't make it non-existent.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  LOL! Telling people they are unaware of your invisible friends existence doesn't make it sane.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are channeling earnesthub. Speaking of hubs, you don't have one yet, mam.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Speaking of coherent arguments...
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I left that out. You don't have those either, mam
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  sarovaiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Life without beliefs, I can hardly imagine.
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  brandasaurposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Peaceful? Or someone would gonna think of starting a religion? This thread reminds of the song Imagine..
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  John Lennon! right on! It is a good song actually one of my favorites.
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Hollie Thomasposted 12 years ago
For me, that's like saying what what the world be like without political parties. IMO, probably much better. Both, even if that is not their intention initially, seek social control. Which I believe can never be a good thing.
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Emile Rposted 12 years ago
Honestly, I think it might be a better place. I say that mostly because of the way women are treated in the Islamic countries. The majority of those in the West seem to have laid to rest forever the darkest moments of their religious heritage.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see where you are coming from but the bible also opresses women. It says they should remain silent and not be heard.
  
  It is society that oppresses women. Afterall, men wrote the bible and the koran. Third world countries are a little behind the rest of the world. Sexual equality will catch up eventually.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't really matter what the Bible says on that topic. What is important is that, like you said, it is society that allows for the oppression of people. I'm not sure if you've noticed this or not, but we don't pass laws through biblical interpretation. Ours is a secular government.
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  Jesus was a hippyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I was just using it to illustrate my point
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What country do you live in?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you ask?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  China is the only secular government that I know of, and I thought you lived in the U.S.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do live in the US. You definitely need to get out more. Ours is a secular government.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "One Nation under God";"In God we Trust";"...We hold these truths to be self evident that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights..."
  
  That isn't a secular government.
  
  In China it was illegal for churches to exist, and illegal to be part of a religious organization. That is a secular government.
  
  I do need to get out more... What are you doing Friday Night?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Talk about gullible.
  
  There's more distortion and misinformation behind the agenda of politicians than anything else and what you just pointed out is one of the tactics used by them. It was just verified by the politician presently in office who just passed a bill about "In God We Trust" to remain on our money.
  
  It's a perfect example of the government playing to the majority of citizens who are religious, so they don't lose their job. Nothing more.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I feel a thanks for playing coming on....
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No doubt. That's about all you know how to say, when you've nothing to contribute.
  
  America's politicians during the formation of America knew what they were doing and how to word it, so that there was NO specific religion acquainted. Creator/God are interchangeable terms. It doesn't play to any specific religion.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Secular is not a term that denotes many different and equally treated religions. It is a term that denotes the abscense of any religious organizations at all.
  
  sec·u·lar
  1.of or pertaining to worldly things or to things that are not regarded as religious, spiritual, or sacred; temporal: secular interests.
  
  2.not pertaining to or connected with religion (opposed to sacred): secular music.
  
  3.(of education, a school, etc.) concerned with nonreligious subjects.
  
  4.(of members of the clergy) not belonging to a religious order; not bound by monastic vows (opposed to regular).
  
  5.occurring or celebrated once in an age or century: the secular games of Rome.
  
  ***according to wiki the definition is the way you are using it.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think you're confusing your conversation with Emile and what I said.
  
  My statement had NOTHING to do with Secular society.
  
  But, thanks for playing.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Troubled: I really really really already read it and cited it's definition in my reply. But thanks.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Did it help you understand that China isn't the only secular government? That, you yourself live in a society with a secular government?
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  Moonchild60posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why do people always put it on the president? He is trying to pass a bill to create JOBS, the Reps were pushing for the "In God we Trust" nonsense. So far they have showed no interest whatsoever in passing the JOBS bill.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Look, the Declaration of Independence is a beautiful document. Inspired by generations of tyranny. But, it is the Declaration. Read the Constitution. There is no appeal to God, Jesus or any other religion in it. It is a secular document and points this fact out in the amendments.
  
  All you have to is understand the meaning of the word secular. It isn't an evil word. In God We Trust was adopted in 1956. That's 180 years after the start of the revolution and 169 years after the founders signed the foundational document of this country.
  
  You could do well also, by understanding the history that went into the reasons why many who were adamantly religious wanted a secular government. And fought for it. I wrote a hub on it because I was impressed with their resolve and the spirituality behind it. Those were good Christian men who understood the goodness in man, the true intent of the meaning of the term free will and the evils inherent in power.
  
  We are a nation whose citizens, at its birth, demanded a secular government. You can pretend otherwise, but it is one of the principles we were founded on.
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @ Mikel ! You are priceless! (lol) I love it. I am not doing anything next friday. maybe we could play yatzee?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You really, really, really need to read this...
  
  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secular_state
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled, I have read it. And America is considered by definition *secular*. Thank you for posting the link. take care. And I am happy that I learned something new. so I thank you!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Further to that, Jo, a secular state actually protects you from being persecuted for your beliefs and allows and provides you complete freedom to believe whatever you want.
  
  A religious state would never allow those rights.
  
  Interesting, isn't it?
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes it is. I guess, over in Saudi Arabia they get their tounges cut out and they are burned alive! Makes you grateful to be in the good old USA !
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  Mark Knowlesposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Unless u r a dead injun.
  
  Like wot god sed ter kill.
  
  Burn them!
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Perhaps, but it wasn't that long ago Christians did the same things. Islam is going through a similar violent upheaval very much like Christianity did a few hundred years ago.
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oppression? Of women? This is not true. Why do people take things out of context?
  
  Yes, the book says a woman should remain silent. Ready for a history lesson? I'm tired, but here goes. Back in those days, the women of the church sat on one side while the men sat on the other. When the preacher was preaching, women and men were talking across the isles causing confusion. So, said preacher would ask the women if they would simply wait til they were out of church to talk to their husbands. Why not ask the men to wait? Well, it'd be my guess that it is easier to get a woman to be quiet than a man.
  
  I mean really. Put things into context, read the entire story pertaining to the verse you are trying to slaughter.
  
  If God/Jesus had wanted women to remain silent, He would have appeared to Peter when he visited the tomb, but who was it that He appeared to? Mary, I believe. What were His words to her? Something like Go tell..............How can one tell anything if they are silent?
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  arksysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Emile R - how do you think women are treated in islamic countries? please elaborate. I think you have the wrong picture.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't know. Honor killings, acid thrown in women's faces, forced marriages for young girls, women not allowed to get an education, beaten for wearing a pair of slacks, murdered for sitting in a car with a man. Things like that.
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Look around. There are women, here in the states that are treated equally as bad. It is not the fault of religion or the lack of religion.
  
  Greed, control, jealousy, and etc are the culprits.
  
  But, religion in and of its self is nothing. Without faith, all is vein.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think, a glaring difference is in how the government and society, at large, reacts to thiese types of atrocities. Western governments punish these acts. They aren't the perpetrators. Society in the West is horrified by these acts. They don't claim Shari'a law must be enforced.
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  arksysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  thats nothing to do with religion... more to do with the people. they had beating the wife in the british law as well about 100 to 200 years ago. that's where the phrase 'rule of thumb' comes from where a man could only beat his wife with a stick no thicker than his thumb. Non-Islamic countries are just as violent, we're all humans.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I notice you reference a century old british law to attempt to defend shari'a law. As I said in my opinion post, the people West appear to have risen above their dark religious past.
  
  Don't get me wrong. I don't consider Muslims to be bad people. They simply allow violence because their leaders advocate it in many parts of the world. Christianity lost enough of its stranglehold on the conscience of its adherents to allow governments to form that enacted laws for the good of all and thus hold at bay those who seek to enslave through religion.
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  arksysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's people doing wrong in the name of religion ... not actually the dark religious past. an example would be racism is a dark patch which went on till about the 60's ... the Quran says that everyone is equal no matter what colour... and i'm sure the Bible would not tell anyone to differenciate between the colour of skin.
  
  I do agree that some wrong leaders advocate violence which is wrong ... there was a crackdown in pakistan after 9-11 where under cover agents went into as many mosques as possible to remove such leaders who brainwash children.
  
  I read a study recently about the impact of religion in america and overall there was more peace and stability in area's where religion thrived. I can share the link if you like.
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  john-doe7posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wonderful. Women are equal to men and have the same rights - that is great. When was this changed that women can wear flowing robes and do not need to cover up?
  
  I read a study once where religious zealots murdered millions. Would you like a link?
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  arksysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  sure i'd like the link.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't the Quran permit a husband to beat his wife for adultery? Yet I guess a wife is not permitted to beat her husband for adultery. Saudi Arabia does not permit women to drive and forbids men and women from socialising in public. Islam permits a man to have four wives. Doesn't look like women have equal status in Islam does it?
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  arksysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  the punishment for adultry wheather a man or a woman is death for both who committed adultry as far as i know ... the husband cannot just claim she's an adultress ... there have to be 4 witnesses to prove it and testify and if witnesses are not produced the woman is considered innocent. the woman can claim the same for a man ... the rules are clear in the Quran ... i'll have to look-up the exact verses and will let you know.
  
  the second third and fourth marriage is only allowed if you have permission from your previous wives and you can provide for them equally and love them equally without discrimination ... it's not as easy as it seems.
  
  forbidding women to drive - i know its a rule in saudi but i personally don't know why ... so cannot comment on that... I think they should be free to drive. it makes it difficult for single / widowed / divorced women to move around and makes them dependant on others.
  
  We have been told that heaven lies under the feet of the mother not the father ... we have been told the order of importance of people according to religion by the Prophet ... First Allah, then the Prophet then the Mother then the Mother then the Mother again (3 times) ... then the father. there are places where it seems the woman does not have rights in one part but has major rights in other parts... which balances things and therefore is said to be equal ...
  
  I remember my sister who is a muslim telling me once that she did not feel equal for a long time to men but when she reached a certain age or point in life she said "now i see how we are equal". I can't exactly remember what she was referring to but it was 2-3 years after she had her first child... so I can agree that from looking at islam from a distance it does seem that women do not have an equal status.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sure. A link to that would be interesting.
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  arksysposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  http://www.heritage.org/research/report … -stability
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Clever Katieposted 12 years ago
I would be disappointed, because there wouldn't be hell fire and brimstone for all of the crooked politicians and bankers.
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Cagsilposted 12 years ago
It would be such a more peaceful world.
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Paul Wingertposted 12 years ago
A world without religion would be a world of expanded ideas and relations. There will be no more intolerence towards gays and others. Programs like stem cell research will be world wide and great gains in that. Think of the possibilities! A good portion of the stupid laws will be repealled world wide. Human rights will exist in the Middle East especially towards women. The list goes on and on. In another 200 years, religion will be the thing of the past in this country. Why do we have religion again?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why would the strong not dominate the weak? Why would the intelligent and physically weaker be allowed to exist?
  
  Why would anyone want to breed intelligence into the species as opposed to the physical strength required to protect the family/tribe/group?
  
  Why would anyone strive to be Heroic? Why would anyone give up thier one and only chance at existing to save someone elses existence?
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wildernessposted 12 years ago
What would the earth be without religion?

Heaven on earth comes to mind...
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  Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed
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lone77starposted 12 years ago
A world without religion?

Wall Street greed, skid row crime and Darfur injustice.

Add in more Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, plus John W. Gacy.

The problem with religion isn't religion, but instead the egos of the individual members. And ego is what religion is here to combat.

In fact, the problem with all evil comes from ego, whether it is religious or secular.

Blaming religion is a bit like shooting the dog because you got a flat tire. Not very bright.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'm laughing at your last sentence
  
  However, religion itself isn't about defeating the ego. It's about ignoring it altogether which actually is against human nature.
  
  The Ego has to play a factor at specific times and not in others. Religion teaches intolerance to it's members, which creates conflict from those who interpret it.
  
  It also teach people to be ignorant about their purpose of life.
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  autumn18posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I do agree that the problem with religion isn't religion. It's problem people. Thus I think that humans would still be doing what they do. I do however wonder about a religion that teaches that murderers, rapists, crooks, etc. can be forgiven and live in heaven with God for eternity.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, instead we would have Vatican greed, violent crimes and Inquisition justice.
  
  Add in more Hitler (he was Christian), Jim Jones, plus John, W. Gacy (Catholic)
  
  Then, we could also have people trying to convince us their god parted a boulevard of cars.
  
  Then, should we be blaming you for those obvious fabrications and fantasies, or your religion for turning the brain to mush?
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled man,
  
  Hitler was not christian! He was a Nazi! Jim Jones was a radical procaliming that he was *god*. The devil is the *god of darkness. Gacy was a fanatic. I am proclaiming that I am Yeshua's child. I am the decendent of Abraham. Christian is suppose to me *christ-like*. Some use the word so loosely and some don't walk the talk. I do! I try to be *Christ like* in *ALL* I do, say and act. I am not perfect yet however. At least I am on the right path.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  See?! Women can be leaders in the church.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Except that it's forbidden for women to be church leaders. Somehow, within Christian values, women are second class citizens.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have a problem with reading comprehensions and application of cultural relevance, lady.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  One can be a Christian and still hold a different political view, they are not one and the same.
  
  But, that's what we will have to deal with by allowing people the freedom to believe in whatever they want, the same freedoms allowed to you.
  
  It was another poster here who related Gacy to atheism, despite the fact Gacy was religious.
  
  At least, that's what you would like us to believe.
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arksysposted 12 years ago
We'd still have a lot of problems in the world ... we're humans, we'll always have a problem with one thing or another. I think on the whole the world would not be a in a better position as it is today.
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A Troubled Manposted 12 years ago
No one can really predict what the world would be like without religion. But, if we didn't have religions, what would divide humanity?
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Troubled, I can tell you this. The *good spirit* of God will one day be gone from this world completly. Have you noticed the increase in earthquakes, floods and other natural disasters? All a person needs is a *grain of mustered seed* of *faith.* Why is making you run so fast and so hard from trying just a little?
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, the amount of natural disasters is much less now than it was millions/billions of years ago when the Earth was forming. They are decreasing, respectively.
  
  And, if you look at the statistics, there has been a drastic drop in the number of earthquakes from 2008 to 2009. See for yourself...
  
  http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/ … qstats.php
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LeanManposted 12 years ago
It's the church that should go.... religion is fine as a solo sport but when you turn it into a team sport you start to get coaches and team captains that want to cheat to beat the opposition teams.. They belittle their players and demand no sex before a big game and other nonsense...

Church = any organized religion before I get flack only from the Christians..... they are all as bad as one another... bunch of fools who try to twist and turn things to benefit their own twisted ideas rather than the real teachings of their religions....

Most religions have simple rules - the ten commandments for the want of an easier to remember set of rules - simple rules to prevent a society destroying itself.. Those are the basic ideas behind a religion.. be good to everyone, show some respect and look after yourself and your family.... simple... but people over the years start to add in BS about killing infidels and covering women just to increase their own power and influence..

The basics are just being a "nice" person... you don't need a book, a church, a mosque, a priest, an imam or any other BS to be nice to each other... but hell you can use religion as one hell of an excuse to be a real b1tch to others..

anyway that's my tuppence worth on the subject... may the farce be with you...
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Knight6posted 12 years ago
thank you all for your replys some lead to disagreements over each others view points which is why i asked the question not for disagreements but to see what everyone thought on the subject believers and non believers.
myself i think religion in its present form(and i speak of all religions)is doing nothing for the frist idea created all those 1000s of years ago all it was meant to do was to give comfort to people then it got all screwed up when the human race used it against its own people for its own gains the world would be better off without the interference of the human race on the orginal idea but that idea is lost to time for now thanks again for all of your replies so far..
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  Jo_Goldsmith11posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Knight,
  
  Interesting question and I like how we have been able to keep up. well, most of us. I am tired. I am going to sleep. good night and sweet dreams all!
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melporposted 12 years ago
I personally believe it would not make any different despite the fact many wars in the world are the result of religious indifferences. Wars will continue to occur for other reasons and the world population will continue to behave the way they have been behaving since the beginning of mankind. It just would not be any places of worship.
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pastorjerrylposted 12 years ago
I think the World would be Heaven on Earth. Here's why. "Religion" basically has two components:
1. A belief in God/a Higher Power.
2. A personal response to that higher power.

The problem comes about because we are individuals and our differences color our attitudes and ultimately our actions. We take our best shot at how we believe we should interact with God, and through a combination of trial-and-error efforts and reflection we grow into a belief system.

As it is now, it's like we're all on a kind of remote control. If we could physically walk with God in the cool of the evening as did Adam and Eve, we wouldn't have to believe anything about God; we could just ask Him (personally, I think we'd know intuitively anyway- Universal Knowledge). Since we would know the "right" way to respond, fact would belief/faith. At that pint, there would be no "religion" to disagree with, only oneness with God.

When we get to that point, we would love our neighbor as ourselves because we would recognize God's presence in each other.

I can hardly wait.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  True that.
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pastorjerrylposted 12 years ago
Sorry, I meant to say fact world REPLACE belief/faith.
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awareposted 12 years ago
without religion . god will get better. or not.
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