What happens after death?

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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago

Is this the only life we have been given? Or there is a soul that survives this body and goes elsewhere to any God? This is the small question I am having with my fellow human beings who are few in numbers...

Image: hindu funeral pyre. they burn the body after death!
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  After much reading of the bible and looking at Judaism, my view is we rot in the grave, our conciousness is said to be asleep, and we are in total oblivion until a future resurrection. Nowhere does the bible teach that we go to heaven (or hell) upon death.
  
  Logically if we had some immortal spirit/soul that left our bodies after death retaining conciousness, memories and intelligence, then it should be impossible to suffer brain damage in this life. That is how can people lose their memories, undergo personality changes due to brain trauma, or live in a persistent vegitative state? Surely this immortal soul/spirit would still be alive and concious retaking memories and faculties whilst we were alive too.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Typo "retaking memories" should read "retaining memories". Apple iOS spell checker issues.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's funny that you said retaking memories. Ironically, most of us come to the next life retaking the past one like a movie rerun. We're supposed to learn from experience but many of us just let experience rule us.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  From the Bible; didn't Saul have a psychic pull the spirit of Samuel back into this reality for advice? Didn't Samuel complain about it? Different translations appear to in interpret the incident differently, but by Samuel's words it appears he wasn't simply rotting in the interim.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I always wondered ??? When Samuel was awakened; was he able to go back to sleep?
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Hebrew scriptures state that once dead, you are dead, there are no spirits coming back. The interpretation I've read of the Samuel/psychic event was that she was deceiving a gullible Saul by a mix of known Israelite history, cold reading, and theatrics. In the story Saul never actually saw or heard this spirit of Samuel.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, I just read that part again. That is certainly one valid interpretation. So, what about when the disciples saw the transfiguration? Where did Moses and Elijah supposedly come from? And doesn't the text claim John the Baptist was Elijah reincarnated?
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My understanding is that we enter 'soul sleep' i.e. we are held in abeyance until resurrection, whilst the body decays in the grave.
  
  Job 14:12
  So man lies down and does not rise [to his former state]. Till the heavens are no more, men will not awake nor be raised [physically] out of their sleep.
  
  Daniel 12:2
  And many of those who sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake: some to everlasting life and some to shame and everlasting contempt and abhorrence.
  
  Ephesians 5:14
  Therefore He says, Awake, O sleeper, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall shine (make day dawn) upon you and give you light.
  
  The body is purely a vehicle, we abandon it when we leave.
  
  BTW Samuel appears to have spoken to Saul, and Saul answered, so I guess something was there in some form, with vocal ability!
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  i.e. we are held in abeyance until resurrection, whilst the body decays in the grave.
  
  I may have understood it wrong - then please correct me; but does it then mean that people often rise from their death-sleeps in their graves?
  
  [b]What will happen with poor Hindus, who seem to be ignorant of this fact, and who burn the entire body, after death, into mere ashes?
  
  ...I am interested
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  God is not bothered by what we do with our bodies after death, it's what we do with our lives that counts.
  
  If a Hindu knows God, they will be raised with those who are to be raised.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting reply, aguasilver , thanks for this one; and very practical.
  
  But, if there is such a thing called 'after-life', then what we do with our lives does not count. This is the problem. Then we shall always get a 'second chance'.
  
  I wish you will dispel this system-failure...
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sweet concept, hope you are correct, but all of life seems to have cause and effect.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Call it 'noble concept' - well, I am just joking!
  
  If I understand you correctly, then are you saying that Life, being the action, has its Cause and Effect?
  
  And Death, being a phenomenon, has its Cause and Effect?
  
  Very interesting...we must then start to investigate them; if we can...
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In duality "death" is the flip side of the coin of life. An after life, negates duality(cause and effect).
  
  Death can be seen as positive or negative, not as cause or effect.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Death may not be an Effect of Life; death may be simply connected to Life.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Death is in one aspect an effect of Life. It's part and parcel, of what we know as a "beginning" and "end".
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am interested in the Cause...in one aspect
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Explain?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Who will go first?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Meaning what exactly?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  May be - bubble gums
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why do you continue to respond with statements to posts you've already responded to?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  stopped chewing...
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting, but that still leaves the question of the transfiguration; who, ultimately, was John the Baptist; several statements made on the cross, the death of Stephen and a few loose ends left in the Old and New Testament.
  
  I'm not saying anything with that; other than since there is room for differences of opinion I'm surprised anyone feels comfortable speaking with any certainty on this topic.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have not much knowledge of religious books. So I have found this above statement of yours a bit intriguing; I quote you-
  
  "still leaves the question of the transfiguration; who, ultimately, was John the Baptist; several statements made on the cross, the death of Stephen and a few loose ends left in the Old and New Testament. "
  
  Do they point to any concrete evidence that supports after-life? Or even Immortality? Or God?
  
  If these are just some stories - then then questions lose their value.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't consider any of it to be concrete evidence; but many do. Who am I to say who is right or wrong? I've always been fascinated with how people can make a stand, from their interpretation of the texts. There is a lot of information that seems to be at odds with other parts.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the reply. However, it's not about right or wrong - but about truth and falsehood.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You say potato, I say potato. You are certainly welcome to pretend that they are different. But truth is the right answer and falsehood is the wrong answer.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Brilliant clarification - however, I love fat potatoes. Thin ones are dangerous.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. Not sure what makes thin potatoes dangerous, but good for you for trying to protect your health. I've always found they both taste the same. Maybe I'm just an easy keeper.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We brush everyday I think...except a few...
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "There is a lot of information that seems to be at odds with other parts".
  
  =======
  
  Every time a theory is based on any false assumption ... there will be issues that just don't add up.
  
  The foundation of a building is not between the 9th and 10th floors.
  John 3:16 is the foundation of many peoples belief system.
  This is a great verse, but .. it is not a starting place to build a belief system upon.
  We can pile almost anything upon it; doesn't classify as a proper building technique.
  
  Scripture says God created the universe for his pleasure. And our names were written in the book of life from the beginning of time.
  And some day, time will be no more.
  And do not let the left hand know what the right hand is doing.
  
  If we mortal "MAN" can make sense of this, ? , our understanding will be increased.
  
  Can ignorance be bliss?
  
  Imagine a parent taking their child and droping him off at Disneyland. The parent says to to the child, "behave and don't get inro trouble". But; instead of enjoying himself, he sits on a park bench contemplating (all day long) WHY did the parent do this. What was the purpose behind it. By doing so, is the child fulfilling the parents purpose for him?
  
  Just a thought
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just a thought, from my part - the child could have enjoyed Disneyland if he were immortal; a secret sense poking him that this pleasure is just momentary, upsets everything.
  
  (I am very interested to get the mobile-number of that parent) -another thought :-)
  
  Finally- perhaps you are right - it's called revolution.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just another thought.
  When my parents to me to the amusement park, knowing that this was going to end before sun down, made me want to get as much fun as I could out of this day; cause I knew it might be a "coons age" before My parents would bring us back again.
  And knowing that they might; just might have influenced us into behaving a little bit better, at least for a little while?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is a great thought Jerami. Perhaps the greatest that I have heard in recent years. Last time I heard something like this, was from a Bengali poet, named Rabindranath Tagore.
  
  I can still throw my arrow of reason to this thought - I will not...
  
  The Day is No More
  by Rabindranath Tagore
  
  The day is no more,
  the shadow is upon the earth.
  It is time that I go
  to the stream to fill my pitcher.
  
  The evening air is eager
  with the sad music of the water.
  Ah, it calls me out into the dusk.
  In the lonely lane
  there is no passer-by, the wind is up,
  the ripples are rampant in the river.
  
  I know not if I shall come back home.
  I know not whom I shall chance to meet.
  There at the fording in the little boat
  the unknown man plays upon his lute.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  YES ... and thanks for your comment.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jerami, the problem I see is that you can, of course, think you have made sense of it. Others believe the same thing; yet have come to other conclusions. Primarily because the books are at odds. You have to decide what takes precedent; what is meant to be taken literally; what should be left at the wayside. These are choices you make that you cannot, in good conscience, claim to be inspired by any God.
  
  You say John 3:16 is the foundation of many peoples belief system.
  This is a great verse, but .. it is not a starting place to build a belief system upon.
  We can pile almost anything upon it; doesn't classify as a proper building technique.
  
  I could say, 'Why not?' Why is that any different from those who use the words of Paul as their sieve? How is that different from those who use Revelation, or some point in the Old Testament? Everyone starts from somewhere. Everyone has to decide what sieve they are going to use. You have to decide what direction you are traveling. Will you go down a dark path, simply because you think the hand of a God is pointing in that direction? You have to make a stand. Those who argue that bad is good because that is their understanding of a scripture are either bad themselves, or dangerously easily led.
  
  I'll be honest; I have no idea where you were going with the Disneyland analogy. But, I think Christians spend too much time trying to solve a puzzle that has already been solved. They simply don't appreciate the solution; so attempt to change it to something more comfortable, more entertaining or more rewarding to the ego. Something that suits the place they want to believe themselves to be within this reality.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I agree with everything you said in your post.
  That is what I was saying also.
  
  We can not begin reading any novel, starting in the middle of the book,working our way towards the first page; interpreting the cause of events.
  Just saying that this process never works.
  
  Something will always be amiss.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ok. But, are you sure we agree? I honestly think the whole point is to come to an understanding of who the Divine is, and then understand the text through those eyes. If you don't, then I don't see how it makes sense. The Guy's all over the place. The question is why? Those who accept that a vengeful god was vengeful for vengeance sake in the Old Testament, and call themselves followers, scare the devil out of me. If you start with the premise 'God so loved the world' you get something completely different out of the text. You can't fall back on anything prior to that as any other than a history lesson in the nature of man. If you look at the anything prior to the teachings of Christ, and use them as a guide, you can't follow the teachings of Christ.
  
  The point I'm making, I see as the opposite of yours; but we've talked in the past, so maybe I'm simply not understanding your post. I don't think the text was meant to be a puzzle. I think it is self explanatory if you run everything through the sieve of his words in the gospels. And attempt to understand where everyone else was coming from. How they got it wrong, or right.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think the Old Testament points towards the New Testament, and in reality there is very little in the way of 'rules' adopted from the OT into the NT, simply because the OT was replaced by the NT, in exactly the same way that we replace one contract with another in modern commerce.
  
  The old contract may well be indicative of what we previously agreed on, but the new contract is the one that we are to work within and towards fulfilling.
  
  You can see this if you examine laws made (say) 200 or 300 years ago, with the laws which govern us today.
  
  There may be precedents set in the new law, based upon the old, but the new law rules the day and judgements are determined upon the new laws, not the old.
  
  That's why I can no longer be tried for treason is I shoot an arrow towards a Royal residence, though curiously, a London 'Hackney Carriage' (Black Cab) driver could still technically be fined for not having a bale of hay in the boot to feed the horses! which is pretty odd! but possibly more weird is that a lorry driver is permitted to urinate against the rear offside wheel of his vehicle, if he so desires.
  
  But he cannot smoke a cigarette in his lorry any more.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think that would be a great improvement, if most everyone agreed with you. I don’t see that they do; judging from comments made on the forums here. But, I would prefer that you had said the gospel replaced the OT. You also have contradictory comments and passages in the rest of the New Testament. Many of the concepts of Paul were used to subjugate women. Revelations has been the cause of a lot of misery throughout the centuries. If Christians think Jesus was God incarnate, I just wonder why his words take a backseat to the OT for some and the rest of the NT for others.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Good point, I have always held the view that the words of Christ are what matter, and all other scripture, albeit divinely inspired or not, are good guidance, in other words, my criterion is will this verse affect my eternal destiny?
  
  Most of Paul is good advice, and if you understand his history, you can see why he may have been a misogynist even for those days, but from a Christian woman's perspective, and I mean a truly spiritual Christian woman's perspective, what Paul wrote is understood.
  
  I know many women that I have no problem learning from, which requires submission to their authority, but I know many women 'pastors' but would not want to place myself spiritually under their authority, for the simple reason that most women are empathic and emotional as opposed to logical, which most male pastors are.
  
  Women are easier for the enemy to divert into wacky theology, (based upon experience)and besides, if they meet the criterion to be in authority, they will be disqualified anyway as their husbands will need to be in submission to them, and Christ calls for men to be the authority in a marriage.
  
  To allay your next post! - the reasoning behind that is because when we marry, two become one, and two people cannot have but one voice, i.e. they need to agree when they deal with God.
  
  I was for many years the model 'new man' who shared tasks (still do) and allowed my woman (whoever she was) to manage things, as like most men I was quite happy to relegate authority and responsibility (and the two go together) to the woman.
  
  I was wrong, and thankfully my wife who is a strong Christian woman refused to buy the lie, and prayed me into becoming the head of the house.
  
  We are equals, but she respects Gods commands, and in relaity she is married to Christ first and me second!
  
  Enough! I must sleep...
  
  John
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sleep well John, because....man,you may need your strength to defend yourself tomorrow after that post. I would certainly hope there weren't many Christian women who believed in much of what you shared. If there are, the religion is more backward than I thought
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ... slept very well! of course it could be that you misunderstand Christianity more than you realised?
  
  Lets see if those Christian women respond to my post?
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's during the week. Not a lot of traffic. But, no, I don't think I misunderstand Christianity. Not in the states anyway. We've found that even the thick can be taught; given time. No one would ever advocate going back to the old ways at this point. Even the irritatingly obnoxious evangelical voice attempting to push their views in our political arena.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What are the old ways?
  
  Whatever you think they are, they seem to work very well in Christian families that adopt them, and God does not change, His ways have been the same since day one, maybe man has changed his opinion on how we should behave, but God has not.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, it's kind of funny that you say that. I notice in the New Testament that women play a prominent role, then the church beat them down almost immediately. God's ways, you say?
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You may note that I actually said: "maybe man has changed his opinion on how we should behave, but God has not." so I make no apology for members of Churchianity who have got it wrong, in the past or presently.
  
  Women still do play an major part in the Christian body of faith, and in Spain (where I actually come from) I would warrant that up to 70% of the congregations are women.
  
  Sometimes they will be able to bring theor husbands into the faith, but mostly their secular or lapsed husbands are content to have the 'little woman' trot off to church meetings so they can enjoy the football or have a drink with their friends whilst she is 'occupied'.
  
  Of course the married couples who are in faith together have no such problems.
  
  Many women have Christ as their 'real' husband, and all women believers , indeed all believrs, have Christ as the head of the house, it's just that women are requested to view their (believing) husband as Christ's representative in the marriage.
  
  When the husband is a bad example, those women often manage to pray them firmly into the Kingdom.
  
  All God needs is a willing spirit and a fervent prayer warrior.
  
  Most prayer warriors are women, we (men of faith) do not see them as in any way less than equals, but both men and women of faith understand that in the marriage, God requires ONE voice, and that God has told us that the man should be the head, and have the ultimate authority, which is fair, because even if the woman persuades the husband to do the wrong thing, he is still responsible and will take the blame for the error.
  
  No Christian man that I know, would ever exercise that final authority to override his wife's opinion, unless he truly believed that God was backing his decision.
  
  Should I find one, I would minister with him until he understood his obligations to God and his wife.
  
  Ephesians 5 15-33
  
  Look carefully then how you walk! Live purposefully and worthily and accurately, not as the unwise and witless, but as wise (sensible, intelligent people),
  
  Making the very most of the time [buying up each opportunity], because the days are evil.
  
  Therefore do not be vague and thoughtless and foolish, but understanding and firmly grasping what the will of the Lord is.
  
  And do not get drunk with wine, for that is debauchery; but ever be filled and stimulated with the [Holy] Spirit.
  
  Speak out to one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, offering praise with voices [[e]and instruments] and making melody with all your heart to the Lord,
  
  At all times and for everything giving thanks in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ to God the Father.
  
  Be subject to one another out of reverence for Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One).
  
  Wives, be subject (be submissive and adapt yourselves) to your own husbands as [a service] to the Lord.
  
  For the husband is head of the wife as Christ is the Head of the church, Himself the Savior of [His] body.
  
  As the church is subject to Christ, so let wives also be subject in everything to their husbands.
  
  Husbands, love your wives, as Christ loved the church and gave Himself up for her,
  
  So that He might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water with the Word,
  
  That He might present the church to Himself in glorious splendor, without spot or wrinkle or any such things [that she might be holy and faultless].
  
  Even so husbands should love their wives as [being in a sense] their own bodies. He who loves his own wife loves himself.
  
  For no man ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and carefully protects and cherishes it, as Christ does the church,
  
  Because we are members (parts) of His body.
  
  For this reason a man shall leave his father and his mother and shall be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.
  
  This mystery is very great, but I speak concerning [the relation of] Christ and the church.
  
  However, let each man of you [without exception] love his wife as [being in a sense] his very own self; and let the wife see that she respects and reverences her husband [[f]that she notices him, regards him, honors him, prefers him, venerates, and esteems him; and [g]that she defers to him, praises him, and loves and admires him exceedingly]. [I Pet. 3:2.]
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I could take the time to get into scriptural posting contest with you, but I'm not really interested. It doesn't really matter, how many pages either of us could find to support our stand. The important thing, to me, is that there is plenty of room to feel justified in whatever you decide. That's why I raise an eyebrow at the whole thing. It's too easily manipulated in order to push opinions.
  
  I'm simply happy that form of Christianity has been pushed to the back of the bus in our society. If there is a God, he certainly has already taken a back seat in most organized religion.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This may be the title of my next hub. God bless you!
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  I look forward to reading it.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not relevant where you sit on the bus, provided it is where God is sitting we are OK.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If there is a God, he left the bus of organized religion the minute they replaced freedom of conscience with the desire to herd the masses. So, it wouldn't matter where on that bus you sat.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No argument that organised religion has fouled up, but thankfully His body of believers will always be with God, and even though He has hidden them in the midst of Churchianity, the remnant are still there.
  
  God does not need the biggest 'army', Gideon proved that, all He wants are willing believers, one persons fervent prayers can change anything.
  
  God will empty the bus soon enough, then those who got off will get where they wanted to go to, far away from God and left behind.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Now it's a bus? "Brayhound?"
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see misogyny is alive and kicking in Christianity.
  
  Maybe that's the reason why divorce rates are so high with Christians, the women are actually not buying into the misogynist mindset, anymore.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @aguasilver- I have a question for you - may I ask? You hold full right not to answer. But I think I must ask, which is;
  
  Do you think there is any practical benefit in following any religion?
  
  I am curious...
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just got back home and this s where i begin for a few minutes.....
  And i ask,,,,,, what?
  
  now i continue on looking through the rest.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can only answer YES, because my life, my families life and the lives of those who I have been involved with have improved drastically since I came to faith.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @aguasilver- Thanks aguasilver. I have just learnt something - I thought I always knew - was not sure.
  
  @Jerami- now i continue on looking through the rest.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @aguasilver- better still if we could empty the bus, except God in the back-seat
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hi Emile,
  After the transfiguration Yashua instructed the two disciples not to speak of the vision. To me 'vision' is the key word. They did not see the spirits of Elijah and Moses. Both of these were in Sheol (the grave) which according to its use in the Hebrew scriptures is a place of sleep and oblivion until the resurrection. What the purpose of this vision was or what was said, we are not told.
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  Rhonda Elishaposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Concerning: Reincarnation
  As noted: In Scripture (Job 33:29-30) “God sometimes brings a soul from the pit to live among those of the living”
  This, thus, demonstrate God power to revive those from death to live again and clarifying also the existence of hell.
  
  As noted: In Scripture (Daniel 12:13) God says to Daniel: “That he will live out the rest of his life and go to eternal peace but will rise again to share in the last days.”
  This, thus, demonstrate God power to revive those from death to live again and clarifying the existence of heaven. (The promised rest).
  
  Concerning: The existence of heaven
  As noted: In Scripture (Job 33:23-24) “The Holy Spirit speaks of messengers from heaven whom sometimes intercede as a friend for man to God and God shows pity, therefore, setting that man free from death.”
  This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it's inhabitance.
  
  As noted: In Scripture (Hebrews 8:1-2) “The Lord today resides in heaven where he ministers in the Temple.”
  This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and it's inhabitance.
  
  Concerning: The existence of hell and heaven
  As noted: In Scripture (Luke 18:19-31) “The rich man and Eleazer the begger.”
  This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of heaven and hell. The Holy Spirit also speaks of Abraham being in the place of the righteous dead.
  
  As noted: In Scripture (1 Peter 3:18-21) “The Lord after his death of mercy, visit and ministers to those whom were sentenced to hell after the flood.”
  This, thus, demonstrating, the existence of hell.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Not the reincarnated one but in the symbolic terms or in character; like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the Promised Messiah of our era; those who die don't get reincarnated or come again. Elijah did not descend from the skies physically so Jesus will never come again.
  
  Christians should not commit the same mistake the Jews committed.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  "Not the reincarnated one but in the symbolic terms or in character; like Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is the Promised Messiah of our era; those who die don't get reincarnated or come again."
  
  I have quoted you paarsurrey.
  
  May you please explain a little these two terms - symbolic terms or in character?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus was follower of the Law of Moses; he brought no new law; he was sent to Jews for their reformation and that they follow Torah, in its true spirit; and that they end their made-up differences; this was the character of Jesus in a nutshell.
  
  Mirza Ghulam Ahmad followed Quran- the Law that descended on Muhammad, he did not bring any new law and was to follow Quran in its true spirit; and was sent as a Truthful Judge to end the differences of Buddhism, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Judaism, Christianity and Muslims etc.
  
  So Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is Jesus Messiah Christ of our era in character; he is re-incarnation of none.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  So he was mortal I believe?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Like Jesus, Mirza Ghulam Ahmad never claimed to be god or son of god; and as Jesus died a natural and peaceful death in India; so did Mirza Ghulam Ahmad died in 1908 in India.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the answer. But what happened after his death?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Like it happened after when Jesus died in India; sameway after the death of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad; the message revealed on him kept spreading after him to the corners of the earth.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Did he receive an after-life? Was there anything left of him, after his death?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah, his dead body was buried in Qadian District Gurdaspur in India.
  
  He was a righteous person; he must have had the same end as did Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  May I know what end?
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A new respectful life as promised by the Creator God for the righteous persons.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Is that a belief - or does that concept of 'after-life' have a support of evidence?
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  mom101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is my understanding that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You have brought up some very fascinating points Disappearinghead: if there
  is a body-independent consciousness, then that must be immune to body damage; which is not the case. I will think upon that.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Someone that loses speech, doesn't lose thought. Perhaps the brain is merely a neccessary tool, like the tongue. The brain damaged no longer have that needed tool and therefore even though thier spirit/immortal soul is unchanged it can't use the broken tool effectively to communicate/function in the mortal realm....
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Mind and body and brain are so deeply intertwined that it is quite impossible to separate them; at least with the kind of information we have right now.
  
  May be Mind and Brain are not as important, as Soul is - which is difficult to establish.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Maybe Mind is Soul, and brain is like tongue.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  may be, Mikel...
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  Euphony101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Eastern peoples know that there is a Soul or Conciousness which is ATTACHED to, but not a part of, the physical body which is its vehicle for learning experiences on earth. The Soul is immortal. Physical bodies of flesh and blood are subject to corruption, disease and death, the Higher Self is not. Therefore, what affects the physical does not affect the Spirit or Soul. When physical life ceases, the immortal returns to the Higher World for rest and evaluation before returning, if necessary, to this world to progress further on its spiritual path of evolution.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Eastern people have always been very Imaginative. They could master the world had they only combined their imagination with their rational faculties. Their gods ate their reason, and the British ate them afterwards.
  
  This concept you have put here, Euphony101, is indeed noble, and fascinating - just missing the reason...as always.
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  Euphony101posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you for your reply, PhenomWriter. I hope you find the answers you are looking for someday. God Bless you.
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  ravihomeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In hindu they burn the body after the death.....
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Burying or burning don't matter much; the dead body has to be disposed off with honour and respect; the soul however does not decay or burn.
  
  Those who achieve the purpose of life set by the Creator God; will be given as a reward a new life having entirely different dimension that could be perceived now, that is the heavenly life promised by the Creator God.
  
  Those who fail to achive the purpose of life will come to know what good life has been acieved by their fellow human beings and that was achievable for them also yet they did not make any effor for that; that is their hell.
  
  The zeal to achieve the purpose of life is one aspect of the human spirit.
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  nightwork4posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  nothing happens. that's just how it is but many people refuse to believe it. it kind of gives me the creeps how desparate people are about death being the end. if religion didn't talk about the afterlife, it would cease to exist or actually it would never have existed. the afterlife is religions strongest ally.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Then we must debunk that belief, and search a solution for immortality. Who desires to die?
  
  As for nothing happens, a science that can not still define this thing which is 'biological life', or that thing which is 'consciousness', can not buy to say that nothing happens after life.
  
  Good reply...
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  thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There's maggots, decays, etc. There is a forensics place in America somewhere that tracks how bodies decay in certain situations.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We all know perhaps what happens to the body after death. We are uncertain that what happens at the moment of death - the specific moment when a living being transforms so easily, into a mere corpse.
  
  A science which can not define what is this thing called 'biological life', or that subtle thing called 'consciousness' - should stay quiet with the maggots.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And, where did you get this from? Just curious.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh, did you ask thisisoli?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No, I asked you.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is my own synthesis. I hope they are rational, and scientific. And I have not still found these answers anywhere; least to say in the books I read in school.
  
  I will happily change my knowledge-base, if anyone can provide the answers.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I guess I don't understand your stance.
  
  Biological life is existence.
  
  Consciousness? I'm not sure what you want to know about it....which part? Sub-conscious or just Consciousness(self awareness) or Both(Human Consciousness).
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can you provide a scientific definition for 'biological life'? I never saw one...
  
  I will love to get to know a little about Human Consciousness, and also animal consciousness - what is it? What is it made of? What happens to it when a person dies?
  
  I hope I will get the answers.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I gave you one it's called Existence. No other definition needed or required.
  Human Consciousness is broken into two parts subconscious and the conscious mind(self awareness). Animal consciousness is irrelevant.
  Explain? Last time I checked "Human Consciousness" is an evolutionary development of the brain.
  Made of? Are you serious? If you are, then I cannot answer your question due to the fact that I don't know enough about the brain to get into the smaller nuances of it.
  When a person is brain dead then consciousness ceases to exist.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What is Existence? -as for requirement; unless we know what 'biological life' is, we can not implant that, or make it last longer.
  
  Animal consciousness is irrelevant. -why?
  
  Made of? Are you serious? -I am indeed very serious. If I know what the Consciousness is made of, then I can create one myself; or implant my consciousness inside a dead-body, after I am dead. I may escape death if I have that knowledge.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh wow!
  Because it's not human consciousness. I thought that was obvious.
  I figured as much, just thought I would ask.
  
  Consciousness isn't something of actual substance. It was derived out of necessity of human survival. Humans evolved consciousness out of the basic need to survive. Look into the work of Julian Jaynes.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The works of Julian Jaynes are controversial, if I know correctly. They are not scientific truths, but speculations.
  
  I am still waiting for the definition of Consciousness.
  
  [Just because a living being can not speak, does not mean that it can not possess consciousness.]
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Agreed. That would mean plants may have consciousness. Vegetarians won't like that idea very much.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, they were in the 70's, but haven't been since then. The Hypothesis Julian Jaynes put in place is what Scientific community agrees with and has worked from, because it coincides with other available knowledge already learned about the human body.
  The most basic definition of Consciousness is awareness.
  Didn't say it didn't. I said that it shouldn't matter. If you continue to look for an answer in an empty space, it's not going to magically appear. Animals do possess some form of consciousness, this has been proven. It's just not that SAME as human consciousness. That's all.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That definition does not provide me any information as how to create one myself; or implant my consciousness inside a dead-body, after I am dead.
  
  About the facts you have provided on Julian Jaynes - this time, may I; And, where did you get this from? Just curious.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  That's because YOU cannot create it.
  A collaboration of hundreds of others within the scientific community.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Mikel G Roberts- A race which can eat living breathing creatures for fun; can torture them because there are no laws that punishes that action, kill millions of Jews out of a superstition and a blind hatred... ...should think twice before they kill a tree.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can a collaboration of hundreds of others within the scientific community
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can a collaboration of hundreds of others within the scientific community create that? Or implant that consciousness?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Now you're twisting things. That's not what I said. You asked where did I get the information and I told you. No one can create consciousness or implant it anywhere. As I said- it's our awareness.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Artificial Intelligence?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Artificial intelligence isn't consciousness.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Isn't it?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No. It's artificial intelligence.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Point Taken.
  
  I'm going to back up a second.
  
  Cags you said, "No one can create consciousness or implant it anywhere."
  
  My reply was "Artificial Intelligence". By that I meant we have created artificial intelligence, that is the seed, once planted that seed may grow into consciousness or "artificial" consciousness if you prefer. In time we may well see this happen, which would make your original statement incorrect.
  
  This possibilty exists, therefore your stance that it cannot happen simply because it hasn't yet, I have to disagree with.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Grow into consciousness isn't the same as implant it. Evolving is what you're missing.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Creating the artificial intelligence that grows or evolves into consciousness would still be creating that consciousness. I am simply listing one of the steps involved in that process. So I must continue to disagree with your original statement.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Taking credit for something not done. Good to know.
  Then do so. It's irrelevant to me.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Mikel G Roberts- How are you so sure that your house does not have a consciousness? Why did you pick up a tree? What's so special in a tree that made you consider that it may have consciousness?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  A plant is a lifeform...a house is not alive.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  @Cagsil- It matters to know the truth; it doesn't matter what a collaboration of hundreds of others within the scientific community believes to be true. I wanted to know the exact source of the information you have provided.
  
  Evolving is what you're missing -How does Consciousness evolve? Where is that information retained?
  
  Very often, the value of a scientific discovery is only felt after some people start to it.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, too bad. I'm unable to give you that information due to the fact that source I received it from is not one I can divulge because of a confidential agreement between myself and them. I didn't say it's what the scientific community believes, so stop putting words into my mouth. I did state that the scientific community has been using the hypothesis that Julian Jaynes put forth in the 70's as part of the collective knowledge already learned. It coincides with everything else already learned and there would be no reason to think or say that it's invalid, since so many advancement of the human species has been gained in the last 30-40 years.
  Yes consciousness evolved. There are several factors involved, human development and environment(pressures of adaptation).
  The information was gained from the same place for which I an unable to disclose.
  The value of any scientific discovery is always incorporated into humankind's collective knowledge. It's people who refuse to accept it that create problems.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I had a similar confidential agreement with them - on that they shared a most important knowledge with me - that they often speak things that some people accept without any question. They told me to see there. I just have broken that agreement. Next day...I will be in jail
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Unfortunately, I don't know who your "them" are, but I cannot speak about "them" by saying exactly who they are. Sorry.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No pressure to know that. The meaning conveys without reference
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  thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Why would there be a scientific explanation of something that does not exist? There are plenty of scientific explanations and pshycological explanations to cover delusions such as life after death.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are you sure that nothing happens after death? I must compliment your confidence.
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  thisisoliposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ahh sorry I keep forgetting that made up nonsense that many people clicng to in an attempt to deal with the unavoidable end of their existance should take precedence over what actually happens in real life.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Some of us have seen what happens in real-life. We are no longer interested in that - we want something better than maggots, and a rotten body
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Really, really, really wishing for something doesn't make it so.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Every action begins with a thought; even the toughest ones...some people, who are very clever, never makes the thought. I hope the smiler is an exception
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I respect you and your work (did you change your picture, or am I dreaming?). This is a good question that we put off in our daily affairs. I will tell you what I believe, but not for the sake of argument, just to share with my fellow human being who is curious about what I think. It is interesting that you refer to yourself as a human being, since that might be assumed. The Sioux, the Pima, The Maricopa, The Creek and many other tribes of Native Americans all spoke different languages. In their own language the name of the tribe is translated human being, or children of the Earth or like that. They believe that life is a continuum, death is a door to another place, which could be loosely translated to mean “happy hunting ground”. The Christians, who bothered to talk to these people about faith, were impressed with their open hearts. They went through a lot of pain for no good reason.
  
  The Bible (I am a believer) says that man was appointed to live once and then to die. It goes on to explain that it doesn’t end there. The spirit of a man cannot be destroyed. In the early Church, there were great controversies about the nature of the “resurrection body” that they were anticipating. One spiritual leader, in a requested letter to settle doctrinal issues (trouble already) addressed the controversy. He compared the body we have now to a grain of wheat. He explained that corruptible (temporary) seed must be planted in order for the incorruptible (permanent) to grow. He pointed out that the two bore no similarity to each other and the incorruptible has infinitely more “glory”.
  
  He said that the people who were trying to argue the point were fools. It was beyond their comprehension. The Native Americans had the same take on that part. I am an American and as such, was taught to respect the beliefs of others and accept them as good neighbors. This can be at odds with many Churches that have a policy of aggressive evangelism to proselytize the world. Sometimes it is hard to strike a balance. Personally, I am looking forward to the day I discard these rags for the new suit. I am thankful that it does not depend on my righteousness and I will be clothed in the righteousness of the one who allowed himself to be sacrificed on my account.
  
  “He, who is forgiven much, loves much”. I have been forgiven much.
  Again, I respect the beliefs of others and their right to believe as they see fit. I wish them well in their pursuit of happiness. If anyone has a mind to come and impose their beliefs and restrictive religious system on me . . . good luck with that.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ANTONY
  
  This was the noblest Roman of them all.
  All the conspirators save only he
  Did that they did in envy of great Caesar.
  He only in a general honest thought
  And common good to all, made one of them.
  His life was gentle, and the elements
  So mixed in him that Nature might stand up
  And say to all the world, “This was a man.
  
  Julius Caesar, Act 5, Scene 5
  William Shakespeare
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I could tell you the truth, but that would be like telling you the ending to a good book or movie, and I wouldn't want to spoil it for you with the surprize ending that is instore for all.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  accepted...
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To use a quote from Tom Cruze in the movie
  "Top Gun" "That's top secret." "I could tell you, but then I would have to kill you."
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emrldphxposted 12 years ago
My belief is that our spirits go to Paradise, where Christ went to preach to those who hadn't seen him, and where He said to the others crucified that day 'today you shall be with me in paradise'.

There, we await resurrection into a perfected body, and our deserved version of heaven.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  belief...
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Vinaya Ghimireposted 12 years ago
According to the Hindu world view our body is composed of five elements: earth, water, fire, air and ether. After we die these elements are mixed up the respective elements.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And that makes a lot of sense. Our essence is reabsorbed. I've always felt the consciousness will live on, but maybe not as a separate consciousness. Possibly reabsorbed into a larger part of the whole.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
The Bible seems to give different answers to this question. But does it really?
Or, is Paradise the same place as heaven? Is heaven and "The Kingdom of God" the same place?

Jesus said to the other man crucified that day,today you shall be with me in paradise.
And yet, Scripture says that when we die, we sleep in the ground with our forefathers until the FIRST resurrection. How can these both be true?
These are just two instances mentioned in the bible among many.
I think that they are all true.

We are just trying to come to a misguided conclusion that all of these instances are talking about the same event, happening in the same timeframe.

Just like if we read an artical covering last weeks football game.
One sentance might mention the score being 7 to 3
Another " " " " " " 14 to 6
" " " " " " " 17 to 20
Final score … 20 to 41
How can all four sentences be true? Answer, time sequencing!

All four sentences are talking about the score at the end of four different quarters. In the first quarter; the other three quarters has not happened YET! But today; all four statements are true.

The way that I understand the scriptures, The Rapture happened in or about 138 AD.

The first resurrection happened around 900 AD.
The 1000 years that Satan WAS bound in the pit ended around 1900 AD.
The sixth bowl judgment is poured out at that time.
The little season that Satan is given to bring together the kings of the earth began around 1900 AD.

All of prophesy are established as to follow a certain time sequence.
And until we recognize this fact; prophesy apears about the same as a jar of different colored jelly beans in a single jar.
But take those jelly beans out of the jar, line them up in a sequencial order (by color) and a different story comes into view.

Yep! ... this is just an opinion,
(My opinion) of what the bible is saying.
It all makes sense to me, when lined up in a chronological order.
But dump all prophesy in a single jar and it looks like a mixed up mess.

So, I believe that if I were to die today, I would either go straight to heaven or sleep in the ground until the 2nd resurrection ocurs, which is soon after the battle.
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  darknight444posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  well it depent on youre bliefs
  but in abrahamique beliefs it s an eternal life in paradise or hell of fire
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I sometimes see this as being kinda like a spider weeb, with each detail being an intersection of the web.
  It would be easy enough to draw this spider web on a very large wall, yet being almost imposible to describe it in words.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You speak here like Noam Chomsky
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just looked him up. Interesting fella! will read more about him.
  
  Thnks for pointing him out to me.
  
  My reason for believing that event horizins could exist here on earth in a much smaller degree would be ... Does anything in the universe exist unique to itself?
  Anything that I can imagine comes in a great variety of sizes, degrees, and flavors; located almost everywhere.
  
  After all; people once thought that our sun was unique in itself.
  
  I think that everything that we think to be imposible, ... probably "IS" someplace else.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, YOU are unique. There's not another identical individual. You might have many things in common with others and nothing in common with others, but no two humans are identical.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can agree with that ... But you miss the point that I was attempting to make.
  Why can there not be every variety of event horizons ... each individual in itself yet be only one of multitudes of similar but different events.
  
  Each individual ant is unique yet I can not see the difference except for size and color.
  
  Back in a couple of hours. gotta get some meat to put on the BBQ before the football game starts.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I just wanted to point out what I did.
  Actually, that's what you choose to perceive.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just for fun - - but you rarely wink
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I guess it's all Platonic, and nothing Freudian
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The was just for Jerami.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Freud could have considered himself fortunate enough if he were given to study these emoticons, and how some brilliant people use them so brilliantly.
  
  Bill Gates and Steve Jobs came later in the scene...Freud was happy with his abacus I think.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What could Freud say, subconscious-communication?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't have a clue what he would say. I've never once studied psychology or philosophy.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, we don't need to study criminology to murder anyone. That comes handy.
  
  We need it afterwards...
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No but you do need to study the human body, so you can determine how to murder someone. You certainly cannot practice on yourself.
  This would be true.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yep.
  
  But to be very honest, one needs to learn about the human body, only if he wants to make the murder in a civilized or subtle way. There are many different ways to get there. I am sorry - but this is the truth of our compassion.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Last time I checked, the only reason anyone learned anything was for efficiency reasons.
  Oh, I'm sure there are plenty of ways to get there.
  Compassion? Oh, okay.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  When I was a kid, I would love to stretch a bubble-gum
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Vinaya Ghimire wrote:
According to the Hindu world view our body is composed of five elements: earth, water, fire, air and ether. After we die these elements are mixed up the respective elements.

Emile R wrote ...And that makes a lot of sense. Our essence is reabsorbed. I've always felt the consciousness will live on, but maybe not as a separate consciousness. Possibly reabsorbed into a larger part of the whole.
========

Me
Many years ago I read the "Seth" series by Jane Adams which pointed to a conclusion similar to this.
Except she wrote that the "whole person" experienced different life situations simultaneously. That the dimensions of time separates these fragmented selves, and upon death these, (for lack of a better term) smaller selves reunited bringing together everything that they each learned together into a unified body.

Or something like that anyway. It was a long time ago that I read her books.

Don't know how much of it that I buy into?
But it was an interesting read.
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  Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Unbelievable. I wrote a hub to that effect. I'll have to look her name up and see if I can read more
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Just got back home from taking my tenant to work.
  
  So here I am for a few.
  She wrote this series of books (I think) back around 1950.
  
  When I read Dianetics (SP.?)by L Ron Hubbard; It had some of the same principals.
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
Good replies - but without evidence. Something is there for sure; but what?
If a place exists after death, then life is simplified. No worries, no cares, no hurry. We shall get a second chance.

Will we?
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Or maybe this is your second chance.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I see a lot of evidence to believe that.
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psycheskinnerposted 12 years ago
Without evidence it is not sure anything is there.
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Disturbiaposted 12 years ago
You're dead, does it really matter?
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Are You dead, or did you leave your cocoon(body) behind like a butterfly does? Are we the cocoon or the butterfly?
  That's the point, do we die or do we simply shed something like a pair of gloves.
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  aguasilverposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Depends on what happens when you die I guess?
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
Even without evidence, people may get strong intuitions. Isaac Newton got an intuition that the apple falls because the planet pulls it. He made a difference by showing evidence.

Some people may have realized the existence of a God. Same intuition. We must help them to establish that intuition into a science, or something closer. Many things in life may not still have an explanation; but we can not deny they are real.

Evidence must be a tool for humans to discover truth - not to block it.
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
Suppose we have only one life - then what we need to do?

Will you search for immortality, to preserve this most precious gift? Or just die because a book or a priest tells you to accept your annihilation?

Is Immortality possible?

(Because we are not sure that a God will save us in after-life. He is still an intuition without evidence.)
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I disagree, as many know, I have proof.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Proof that God exists? Will you explain Mikel? This discussion is getting interesting...
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dayum where have you been?
  
  Read the Hub.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I were happy if you could make it a little shorter. Whatever...
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  gabgirl12posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The key word in one of your posts is 'we have only one life'.
  What we need to do is live it...
  
  Immortality is a contradiction itself. There is no such thing. The definition of 'mortality' is to be liable and subject to death. This body will die and decompose and that is fact.
  
  Our soul is defined as the animating and vital principle in humans, credited with the faculties of thought, action, and emotion and often conceived as an immaterial entity.
  
  The immaterial entity has a choice to 'live' out its purpose in the human body or reject it and keep questioning until the body is blue in the face. (I refuse to be a smurf!).
  
  Our spirits are the vital principle or animating force within living beings. What your immaterial entity does requires the inspiration of your spirit. What is it that drives? What makes you passionate? What pushes you forward?
  
  When you have to ask what you need to do, then whats necessary is to find your purpose. When you know what your purpose is, you are free from the questions that often plague people like 'are we alone in the universe' and 'the end of the world'.
  
  Your individual nature is to explore and progress and push forward and get to another level soul wise. Your soul is what evolves, not your body and when your soul evolves it manifests in the body to prolong or delay the process of death. No other species on the planet has what we have, no matter how much more intelligent they are than us because they dont have soul and they are not made in the image and likeness of God.
  
  I'm not an immortal. I could probably die tomorrow. But I'm certain that I will have left a definite footprint in this life for others to follow and thats enough for me.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well, I also said 'suppose'... Suppose we have only one life - then what we need to do?
  
  Immortality may sound like a dream, today. But many things were mere dreams before some people invented them. The list will be a big one. Why not try for immortality? Even if we fail, we will have a satisfaction, when we die, that this dying is just inevitable, and we did our best to prevent it.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  gabgirl - well said, however if the soul/spirit are the animating force behind the body, then it's logical to assume that the soul is, in fact, immortal. You are the sum of your soul's experience therefore you are immortal.
  
  I believe purpose finds us, not the other way around.
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Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years ago
What happens after death?

I believe one of two things.

1) We cease to exist and retain no consciousness, or memories of ever having existed.
-or-
2) We continue to exist in some other form.

So far we have no way of knowing or proving either.
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
Belief without evidence is religion. What we are not sure about, we must suspend our judgement there, and start investigation. This is the way of science.

We can neither prove God, nor we can disprove him. We must suspend our judgement, and try to find an evidence that he is really there. If we can, then after-life is possible.

Otherwise, it is wise to search for immortality. My subjective opinion...
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Cagsilposted 12 years ago
What happens after death? Purely a mystic question. There's no reason to think anything would be after death, due to the knowledge already available.

The brain ceases to function then so does the mind(consciousness). There's no reason to think that consciousness expands when it can be measured and dissipates when death(all brain function ceases to exist) comes.
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  emrldphxposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  There are those who this isn't an important question to. Because they think it isn't important, they assume that their opinion is reality. And, because their opinion is reality, anyone who considers the question is stupid or insane.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  And it looks like you've decided to assume something not said. How honest of you.
  Another assumption on your part and a very bad perception on top of it.
  Putting words into other people's mouth now are you. Yet, another great show of your understanding of being honest. Thank you for showing your true character.
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  emrldphxposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry Cagsil, I didn't mean this as a direct comment to your comment. I meant it as an observation. There are two approaches to this type of question. One is 'my opinion is', and the other is 'the truth is'.
  
  Again, it was just a thought that occurred to me while reading your post, not a specific commentary on your words.
  
  Although you do present your opinion more as a fact than an opinion.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Dear Cagsil has provided a very good, and thought-provoking, reply.
  
  Cagsil says: There's no reason to think anything would be after death, due to the knowledge already available.
  
  Do you, Cagsil, believe that this 'knowledge already available' will not change within a few decades? I have heard that science changes.
  
  And even for the sake of reasoning, if you are right, then the 'search for Immortality' becomes an urgent necessity.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I always try to do that.
  Yes, the collective knowledge will always change. Yes, science changes because it adds new knowledge and grows from that new knowledge.
  It wouldn't become an urgent necessity because "immortality" is like "infinity", it's beyond the scope of the average mind(thinker).
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Interesting psychology there. I appreciate that.
  
  However, a man who is about to die, will very well understand the meaning of 'Immortality', whether he is 'an average thinker', or not. And the term 'average thinker' will cause dispute if that is properly advertised.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is a bad assumption. They will certain see and understand that life is more precious than previously thought, but with regards to immortality? their view would not change.
  Well, you have "below" average "average" and above average?
  
  Those who are "below" average cannot think on a higher level because when they attempt to do it gets to be too much for their mind and they get a headache. The "average" person will be able to expand on the thought process but will reach a point where they will give up before reaching the end of the thought. The "above" average will be able to understand completely.
  
  Is that better?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Great reply Cagsil. I truly appreciate this one.
  
  If some people get any problem after they are made immortal, they we must leave an option for 'voluntary-death'; that is: if an immortal person gets bored with 'living forever', then he may choose to end that prison.
  
  You are in a way near to the truth of human thinking-capacity. Really, if everyone could think about this life, then we had had less problem in this world.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you
  Immortality isn't a prison. And, how exactly would one get bored with living forever? There's always something that can be done that has not been tried and there are other things that are so much fun to do that you would not get bored with them.
  If more people focused on this life, then yes there would be less problems, but the exact problem is that people seem to think that they can have an immortal life after death comes, because they are a spirit living inside a human body, but fail to understand immortality itself, much less they also don't understand consciousness either.
  
  There are too many people who simply don't give a damn about this life and what it means, which is precisely the cause for the effects happening in the world today. They want the afterlife more than they want this life. This life is one they don't understand, but think they understand the afterlife, which is utterly ridiculous.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Can we meet somewhere this Saturday? If we have good coffee, and smoke - I don't know what will happen
  
  Your thoughts are sharp and impressive. Plus you are a poet. Nice meeting you Raymond.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Nice to meet you as well and Thank you for your compliment. I'm honored and humbled by your words.
  
  Secondly, a poet? Well, I have written some poems, but don't actually consider myself a poet.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Laughter is good for health
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I appreciate when the tiny image is connected with the consciousness
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I think we can find two types - those who are immovable, and those who are movable.
  
  We must, at least, move once the latter type. That brings good and clear conscience.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry, I missed this post. I will have to agree- the immovable(those who choose ignorance and lead by ego) and the movable(those who are completely open minded and not led by ego) don't.
  The immovable must see their failures and accept that they are not of good or clear conscience. The others don't, because they are already good and have a clear conscience.
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  Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You raise some very good points in your post Cagsil. How can they understand the afterlife if they don't understand this one? I like it.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Thank you.
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Michael Gravesposted 12 years ago
I myself am not of a particularly religious bent, but the question of what happens to us after death is one that has been of deep concern to many people throughout history... deep enough a concern that many of the greatest thinkers in history devoted much of their time to contemplating this very issue. It is rather easy for atheists, or those who like myself have no firmly established religious beliefs, to dismiss the issue by saying, "Nothing happens. We're dead. End of report."

I think that this casual answer to the question is misleading, though, for a couple of reasons. First off, science itself seems to support the idea that it is possible for some part of us to survive beyond death. Science tells us that consciousness is a function of bio-electric activity in the brain. Since when we die, all measurable bio-electrical activity ceases, the reasons for scientific dismissal of the concept of endurance beyond death makes some sense. However, the law of the conservation of energy tells us that all of the bio-electricity produced by our brains throughout our lives does not dissipate... it can't, because energy cannot be destroyed, it merely changes form.

So what happens to it, that energy that we release over the course of our lives? Well, if science is to be believed, it doesn't go away, it simply goes elsewhere and does other things. Does that energy survive in any cohesive form? Who knows... I, for one, don't have the theological or the scientific expertise to have a well developed theory on that particular point. But I will say that, whether in a cohesive form such as the "soul", or as disjointed energy strata, all evidence points to some remnant of ourselves continuing to exist after we die.

I am also hesitant to dismiss the religious viewpoint. I have studied enough of world theology (not just the three prime monotheistic faiths, but the pagan and polytheistic beliefs of various cultures) enough to see that most religious doctrines seem to have a certain cohesion to them... almost as if they are all reflections of a common principle, cast in different mirrors. Perhaps religion, as we know it and have known it through the ages, is a limited attempt to grasp the significance of a universal truth.

As science advances, and we discover more and more of the esoteric applications of disciplines such as quantum physics, we begin to see that the primary difference between advanced science and mysticism is their viewpoint... they seem to be observing many of the same phenomena.
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I would add that in order to answer the question, can we assume that the energy you seek in your question was initially "borrowed" from somewhere else, that it was energy that had dissipated from elsewhere or, based on your argument, from someone else?
  
  It's also been argued that the atoms which once had made up Adolf Hitler could be in body of a Jewish watchmaker living in New York.
  
  If so, then that would essentially answer the question, that our lives are merely a small link in the chain of sharing the energy in our universe.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Nice.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Exactamundo!
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well Stated.
  
  It could also be argued that the body continues to exist. Like the bio-electric energy, it too simply changes form.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Great reply Michael Graves. Thank you.
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Michael Gravesposted 12 years ago
Perhaps that's the true meaning of divinity... the collection of all the energy ever released within the universe? I think that all matter and energy came from elsewhere, at some point or other... Since neither matter nor energy can be truly destroyed (so say the prevalent scientific theories), it seems reasonable to assume that all things that currently exist, and ever will exist, are remnants, reflections, or new forms of things that have come before.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is the point I tried to get across in another forum. I believe it's not that we will all come together some day and be one big god again, but that the metaphor of god is 'the highest, purest level to which we can aspire in the spirit plane' - 'the collective consciousness of good' - (please don't get started on the subjectivity question - that's taking place in the 'term' forum.)
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paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago
"What happens after death?"

First, you hear the sounds of bowling pins being knocked over.

Then your eyes open.

You are in a bowling alley.

It is the year 2525.

You are standing in front of an arcade game.

Your game has concluded.
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  Mikel G Robertsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  
  Maybe.
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  emrldphxposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Let me tell you, I think we took technology too far in this case... who wants to play a game with cancer, poverty, suffering, and difficulties?
  
  I'd like to have a word with the programmers!
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  paradigmsearchposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It is indeed possible that we wake up in a prison ward instead...
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  emrldphxposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Lol, paradigm, you're one funny cyber-person... or AI construct... or robot... or one of my other personalities using the forums under a different name...
  
  Not really sure which.
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  couturepopcafeposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Paradigm is all of the above and one heck of a pipe smoker. (private joke) Seriously, could you imagine paradigm suddenly waking up in a prison ward? I'm not sure who would survive that game, him or the inmates.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  May be time-travel, if becomes available, make a solution in some mathematically logical answer to this death thing
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I am not sure...
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You might be right!
  
  Time travel is not posible within a simgle dimension. We would have to step over into a different dimension (like steping into an elivator) and then steping back over into this dimension.
  
  "Kinda like" it being imposible to climb the stairway from the ground floor of a building up to the 90th floor, in a minute and a half. ...
  Physically Imposible without steping into the elivator/different dimension.
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
I am not a specialist in Time-Traveling - but I guess we need a condition where physical laws are so much distorted that they become plastic, and when we can manipulate them as we wish.

Some people are currently searching that rare condition inside a Black Hole; I hope they will exist after they enter they heads in that cosmic swirl...
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I don't remember where I read it or who said it...? But ...
  
  I read a theory that event horizons such as this (though to varying degrees) exists even here on earth. I do not see why this can not be true.
  But then again, I do not know!
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
Humans have a genius for faking anything. I will be surprised if they can not fake an event horizon
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This is true.
  Fake it, why fake it when it could happen? And, if it could happen at least once, then it's possible that it could happen more than once.
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
But the question is - did it happen? Does an event horizon exist on Earth?

If it does, then we can safely spare the counterfeiters
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Paddington Greenposted 12 years ago
I am sceptical of many claims of afterlife experiences. And while most scientists do not believe in an afterlife, there are some who make claims based on their understanding of science that they say shows that the mind can operate when the brain ceases to function. Logically, this would make little sense, because our experiences are entirely physical. The fact that people suffer from mental health problems when they have a chemical inbalance in the brain, would suggest that the brain is the cause of the mind. However, some near death experiences, in which the person has later described events, which they could not have seen, because they happened at a great distance and at a time when they were near to death, does make me wonder. And it is much nicer to believe that there is a scientific explanation, to account for such experiences which at least allows for the possibility of mind existing without the brain, even though the majority of scientists do not agree with such findings.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
Cagsil wrote:
I just wanted to point out what I did.
Actually, that's what you choose to perceive.

Phenom said ..
Just for fun - - but you rarely wink
Posted 12 hours ago

====================

Me
Cagsil; I think I got it? Wasn't goina say nothing but then ...

Thought I'd say thanks for the wink, I think?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Okay, then explain to me what you think you got? Just so we(you and I) can see if we're on the same page.
  You're not sure?
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I'll be happy asuming that I do.
  
  And NO! I'm not twisted; I don't think.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Oh okay. I guess I'll leave it alone.
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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
What happens after death?

Those who fulfill the purpose of life as set by the Creator God will be rewarded new life with entirely new dimensions that cannot be conceived in this life.

Those who fail to fulfill the purpose of life as set by the Creator God will not be rewarded; that is their torment.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Fascinating story paarsurrey!
  
  Are you taking part in the ongoing HubPages contest? ...Please write a short story on this this one
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  A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We're tormented by believers in life and tormented in the afterlife because we aren't believers.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You speak like you have seen after-life...will you please share that experience?
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Rishy Richposted 12 years ago
@ Parr: The purpose of life is beyond praying 5 times a day...& beyond your understanding
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It has been explained by Mirza Ghulam Ahmad- the Promised Messiah of our era in the light of rational arguments from Quran:
  
  "THIRD QUESTION"
  "The Object of Man’s Life and the Means of its Attainment"
  Page: 164
  http://www.alislam.org/library/books/Ph … -Islam.pdf
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
You see paarsurrey, I myself can post links to some Hindu scriptures that can baffle anyone who is religious. Those words on death, which you will find in the Vedas, or in the Gita - are of supreme philosophical value.

But unfortunately, they are worthless. I can not live upto them. They provide no evidence that may compel me to accept them. This thing 'evidence', separates meaning from superstition.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No compulsion at all; enjoy your free will, please.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can not enjoy a a free will which depends upon superstition.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  But you can enjoy a will that is free and has nothing to do with a mystic concept.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Call it without-evidence-concept
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  It's actually called "mysticism".
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  In want of a better word...
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Anirudh Madhavposted 12 years ago
true...
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Druid Dudeposted 12 years ago
Well, now, that tears it Cag...by your definition...I can't be a mystic. I just happen to be aware that the proof I saw was for me. You? Well, you have to seek your own proof...your own blessing. Good luck, man.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you have any problem sharing your proof with others?
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Rhonda Elishaposted 12 years ago
My task as a servant of the Father and my Lord Yeshua is to follow the direction of the Holy Spirit and share to others freely at no cost nor the tic for tac of all that is freely giving to me. My reward is knowing my Lord is with me and loves me and my Holy Spirit is my appointed protector and Instructor. My faith and hope being in my future home (The New Jerusalem). That is my awaited reward. No, the Holy Spirit has no problem sharing God's proof's with those his creation!
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
If you have the proof, then please share that.
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
I don't have a blind hatred for God; and if I see the proof that he exists - I will immediately make a friendship with Him.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
First, Emile R; I am sorry about the lapse in time responding. I do it all the time. Someone is always coming over OR my A.D.D. kicks in and I'm off washing dishes or something else just as useless.
- = - =
I am sure that I agree with that which you said in that post. At least the way which I understood it.
====================================

Emile R
Ok. But, are you sure we agree? I honestly think the whole point is to come to an understanding of who the Divine is, and then understand the text through those eyes. If you don't, then I don't see how it makes sense. The Guy's all over the place. The question is why?

= - = - = -

me
Abraham didn't know who the divine was! He just knew that it was.
I don't know that knowing everything about what and why "The Divine" said to everyone he said those things to, is relative to me?

============================
Emile R
Those who accept that a vengeful god was vengeful for vengeance sake in the Old Testament, and call themselves followers, scare the devil out of me. If you start with the premise 'God so loved the world' you get something completely different out of the text. You can't fall back on anything prior to that as any other than a history lesson in the nature of man. If you look at the anything prior to the teachings of Christ, and use them as a guide, you can't follow the teachings of Christ.

The point I'm making, I see as the opposite of yours; but we've talked in the past, so maybe I'm simply not understanding your post. I don't think the text was meant to be a puzzle. I think it is self explanatory if you run everything through the sieve of his words in the gospels. And attempt to understand where everyone else was coming from. How they got it wrong, or right.

= - = - =

The way that I sift all of this out is to first divide the prophesy separate from the "God so loved the world" type of scripture. That and the ... the " love thy neighbor as thy self" scriptures do in fact mean different things to different people as they should.
But for the ... "this is going to happen and then that is going to happen" kind of message has NO Private interpretation at ALL.
This, I believe is where and when people get confused. They marry these concepts together.

We may change our perspective of past events, but the events themselves are never changed.
If we believe the prophesy at all, Our views as to what they mean can be a 1000 fold, yet the events prophesied or the message itself, stays singular in nature.

OR ... something like that?
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ExperienceToKnowposted 12 years ago
I, as many of you, am curious as to what happens after death. I am young and cannot explain anything, but I wish to post my thoughts on the matter.

If we were to have a higher purpose set to us by a Higher Being, as is with most cases of reincarnation, how do we know what we must achieve if we cannot remember what we did on our 'past life'? Will we automatically know our path along our current life? Will we undo or redeem our past mistakes by mere instinct?

And yet...for some reason we are born with certain personality traits. Some babies smile and laugh, some are more silent and reserved. Our parents guide us through our childhood, and yet their values and teachings...we interpret them in our own way. We are not born...empty...we automatically, as mere babies, know what comforts or discomforts us.

What of the persons who go 'crazy' due to extreme circumstances? Since they no longer have an organized thought process...have they lost their consiousness? What is consiousness exactly? Is it the ability to know right from wrong? And what is 'right'? What is 'wrong'? We cannot hate or kill according to the bible, yet...when the humans forgot about God, what did he do? He killed them all and only let his favorite and his family live...Wasn't that a 'sin', what God did? At many other times, he got angry because of our disobedience (Eva) and even used punishement (birth pain).

Yet that pain can be scientifically explained. It is also a proven fact that pain is key to a human's survival...

Why would God 'test' us, if he knows the future, and knows what we are going to do anyways?

Perhaps I am getting off topic here, so I apologize. Still, I would appreciate a response that could help me understand the topic a bit more. I have a lot more to say (and ask), but it is just too much. Please do feel free to ask where my points of view come from, as I crave a nice exchange of ideas and opinions.
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  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If somebody gotta tell YA .... it ain't going to sink in as deep as when you learn it for your self.
  
  There is a lot of people in your life that is just a waiting for you to figure it out ... SOssss they can celebrate with Ya; ......................... when you get there. somebody is still "A" waitin for me bless their their little hearts. Jesus told them to wait for me! and they are.
  Is somebody waiting for you to figure it out? I think there is whether YA think so or not!
  
  Such is the mystery of life! Please pardon the sp. and gramer.
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  ExperienceToKnowposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ...Jerami, for some reason your reply speaks deep to me, and while I am still trying to fully understand, I now realize that someone, as you mentioned, is waiting for me...perhaps not on the level you are speaking of, but...they've always been waiting...maybe they don't even know it themselves, but I'm sure of it now...
  
  The irony of my username compared to this...it surprises me...Thank you for your deep reply...
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I have an answer for you, ExperienceToKnow, a relatively small answer - which is - try to learn this thing, which is Universal Love. You don't need to spend time here - perhaps anywhere. I have failed to learn that, partially if, that's why I am spending time here. You may need one more thing in the process - which is Truth.
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  ExperienceToKnowposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Ýour answer is a good one, PhenomWriter. I've searched what you have recommended and while I know that it will take time for me to understand completely, I also know that it can be done. Perhaps I just need to let go of these questions which only burden me, and instead learn not by asking, but by experiencing the answers through my own life...
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wise is the one who says he does not know. Why have I been made wise? It does me no good. I can't contain the murmurings of my heart, or the blabberings of my mouth. I search endlessly with endless searching . . . looking for the place where I last left my brush. Alas, the paint may dry before I find it and the brush will be ruined. I regret that I answered the phone and made a cup of coffee. It is vanity. The coffee grew cold while I was searching for my brush. I hope that I have helped you as you wander aimlessly about searching for that which you may find. In the end, it is good for a man to spend his days writing hubs, placing capsules and suggesting links. I hope you have found peace in my words as I have said them in hope of a great return for the yearnnings of your heart.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Do you use Acrylics or Oil?
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I love oils and I can make them sing. The problem with oils is they almost alwas crack in time (linseed oil) and I am allergic to pine (real fun in Florida). With quality acrylics, the pigment is not suspended as in oils or latex. It is an integral part of the molecular structure of the polymer. I like them because they dry fast and never crack. They will outlast the oils and the surface will not get darker and darker with time. If you work with them for about 40 years, you can pass the painting off for an oil if you have a mind to. I will be glad to field any arguments on the subject.
  
  I can save the brush, but it will never be the same.
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  ExperienceToKnowposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WD Curry 111 - Your comments keep enlightening me to no end, my friend. What has been done in the past shall remain in the past forever, so why should I worry about something that has already been done? I am wasting my present time, the time I have to learn not to find out what has been done in the past, but what should be done in the future. If something remains and lingers from the past and into the present day, then I should learn with the time that I have now how I can repair the damage that's been done in the past today, so that there may be a better tomorrow. Thank you again for your words...
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Well said my friend . . . well said.
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Jeramiposted 12 years ago
How many times has everyone waited for somebody else, that we love, to figure something out??? !

I'm waiting. do I hear an A-MEN?
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
"How strange is the lot of us mortals! Each of us is here for a brief sojourn; for what purpose we know not, though sometimes sense it. But we know from daily life that we exist for other people first of all for whose smiles and well-being our own happiness depends." - Albert Einstein

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paarsurreyposted 12 years ago
What happens after death?

If we achieve the purpose of life set by the Creator God; we are endowed another life with total new dimensions otherwise we don't get it.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Which was exactly what Einstein was saying...
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Please quote from him. Thanks
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Wasn't he saying that?
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Einstein was overlooking the power of the individual.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Should I quote Bertrand Russell? Nietzsche?
  
  Thus Spoke Zarathustra...
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The Einstein quote was fine. I was just saying that it overlooked the power of the individual. That's all. If I need to explain then I shall-
  
  His quote mentioned purpose, but failed to point out that purpose isn't granted or given, however, it is created by the individual.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  subtle thought...
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but extremely powerful when adapted by the individual.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  break free... -this word came to my mind hearing you here.
  
  One question, just for fun - If you were to spend an afternoon with any of these three persons, namely - Bertrand Russell, Albert Einstein, or Friedrich Nietzsche - whom will you choose to talk with?
  
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Einstein.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You took the cream...let me go with Zarathustra!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I said Einstein for two reasons (a) one of the most intelligent men to ever walk this Earth and (b) he was a humble man who knew his role in this world.
  
  Edit: Another would be because I don't know the others. I've never studied philosophy or psychology in any manner.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Very well said.
  
  However, I chose Nietzsche for only one reason - for not that we was a more gifted genius than Russell or Einstein - but that he could make both of them escape his company had he ever met them!
  
  ...he was a punner
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  My niece's boyfriend is studying him in college. We talk sometimes.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  As a thinker, I find him to be very impressive
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  No doubt.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Did he have bad breath from the existential soup?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  What about Freud? Will you ever go to Paris with him Chip? And eat existential soup?
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He's never hungry. He does too much cocaine. Besides, all he ever thinks about is sex.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This one makes you an immediate friend of George Bernard Shaw!
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  More BS from the religious.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  If you don't have anything intelligent to say, you must be Cagsil.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Religion is BS. What more do you want? At least I'm being honest about it.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are not being honest to yourself.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  This coming for YOU who spouts the BS of religion. And, you talk about me not being honest with myself. WOW! You take the cake dude.
  
  I guess you see the reflection of your own dishonesty. Cause, I am always consciously active about being honest with myself. So, if you seem to think I'm not being honest, then you're only seeing something within yourself.
  
  Good luck getting around your ego to see the truth.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are in serious denial of how boring you are.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Denial? Again, you describe yourself.
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Deleted
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  We are really on the same side, peace.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Now who is the Mahatma Gandhi here?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  The one who is smiling?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  He used to be a Shakespeare, not Gandhi. Nowadays he is more interested in himself...la-la-la
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  I can not solve the riddle. Shakespeare? Gandhi? I don't get it. Is it Bruce Jenner?
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You are both brilliant people - we all have different colors, and we must mix those colors to make a great painting. Otherwise...we are just lines.
  
  ...Perhaps he is a painting - nothing else...?
  
  This one I painted when I was 20-
  
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  WD Curry 111posted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Blessed is the peace maker.
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  PhenomWriterposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  ...somehow...God gave him a lot of pain to deal with...
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  Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  WD Curry: You waste your energy trying to have a serious discussion with Cagsil, you know this. Don't incourage him he is an antagonist who draws his pleasure from upsetting others with his Atheist dribble.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Hey Dave, how dishonest of you. I'm not an Atheist, regardless of what you think. Secondly, I don't antagonize anyone. I only point the flaws in their thinking.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  Drawing attention to yourself again Paar.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  To the issue in the thread; the core issue.
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  Cagsilposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  How can you do that when you cannot recognize people? Or truth for that matter. You bumping your own statement which is false and anyone with a little bit of common sense and education would realize it, is utterly ridiculous.
  
  It goes to show you're not bumping the thread and want to address the core issue, but you want attention.
  
  Your own actions work against you, yet you're not paying close enough attention to yourself to see it. That's the real shame.
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  paarsurreyposted 12 years agoin reply to this
  You can elaborate on the topic of the thread "What happens after death?".
  
  Every human being value life and tries utmost to live; there is a natural urge in the human beings to live; this urge can be interpreted to mean that there will be a life , after, this one.
  
  Being an atheist you are perhaps perplexed at that.
  
  Feel free to express yourself fully on the topic of the thread if you have anything good to say.
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PhenomWriterposted 12 years ago
I thought it was a community? ...little subconsciously fighting community?

You are both brilliant people - we all have different colors, and we must mix those colors to make a great painting. Otherwise...we are just lines.
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MelissaBarrettposted 12 years ago
Are you two really gonna argue over who is the biggest attention ho?

Seriously?

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