God With Us

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   Deborah Sextonposted 12 years ago

   I was reading another Hub about Yahshua being God. They used the "God with us" proof. 
   
   I commented with this answer.
   
   Yahshua was not God.
   
   God with us and God in the flesh was speaking of the indwelling of the Holy Ghost. The Spirit was around and with mankind, but Yahshua was the first who had the Holy Ghost within. The others had to wait until Pentecost.
   
   Yahshua had the fullness of the Spirit and so it could not be given to others until he ascended.
   
   It's time to wake up and see that we are to worship God only, because there is none beside him. The God of Israel is one God.

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      MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Deborah ~ I fully agree, the God of Abraham, the God of Israel, is alone the one true God - but men cannot define His existence, the reality of His being, to suit them and their own limited capacity to comprehend spiritual truth. When a believer worships Jesus he is worshiping the one true God, the God of Abraham, the God of Israel . . . you say "It's time to wake up and see that we are to worship God only" - what it's time for is time to submit to the one true God and embrace Him, Jesus of Nazareth, the only mediator between God and man. You can't worship God and reject Him at the same time.
      
      Deborah, which of the prophets did Israel ever embrace, how many sent from God did Israel continually reject . . ? . . finally He sent His Son, God Himself came, and you urge others to (again) reject God because He is not what you expect Him to be. Again, God was perpetually resisted and rejected - it's time to submit to the truth and stop imagining that there is some religion that can make you acceptable to God . . . this is what the Jews of Jesus' day thought, they rejected Him saying they had Moses, they imagined that they could obey God's law and earn their way to heaven, and so they killed the only one who actually could keep God's law and was willing to save them.
      
      Jesus wasn't rejected because He was the first who had the Holy Ghost within, Jesus wasn't executed because He was a great teacher, Jesus wasn't turned on because He was the great prophet - Jesus was rejected, executed, turned on by the most religious Jews of His day because they understood exactly what He was claiming to be; Jesus presented Himself as the God of Abraham, the God of Israel, the God of creation, and because of that, because He told the religious that their good works and obedience were not sufficient but that He, as God, was able to forgive sin, because f that they killed Him.
      
      The history of religious Jews is the history of a people rejecting God and His messengers again and again and again - and now they reject the Messiah promised them . . . it's time to wake up and see that we are to worship God, Jesus of Nazareth.

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         A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Then, why are trying to accomplish what you claim cannot be done?

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            MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            . . . are you asking, why am I trying get to heaven by keeping God's law?

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               A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               You don't keep God's laws, no one does.
               
               I was referring to your attempts at defining Gods existence and reality.

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                  MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  (yikes - we agree on something! I do not keep God's law, no one does)
                  
                  I understand your point, but I assert that I am not trying to figure-out or come-up with a definition of God's existence - I count the Bible to be His own revelation of Himself and His truth and I simply accept what I find there as the truth. I don't know nor can I understand how 3 in 1 works, I can't see how God can be the Father and Jesus and be 1 being, etc, etc - I don't reject it because it's beyond my capacity to grasp and i don't try to resolve or figure it out perfectly . . . I merely accept it as I find it in Scripture.

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     The Bible was written by men so your post must refer to them, too.
                     
                     
                     
                     That's because it's pure magical baloney.

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                        MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        We've been through this before: you post in blurbs and offer no reasoning or evidence, just announcements of what you think . . . that's fine, everyone can think whatever they prefer to think, however on this point the evidence is all against your notion of things - the historic record, archaeological finds, and textual evidence demonstrates that the Bible we have today is just as it was originally written, and it would be the most absurd event of all time if the various kings, fishermen, and prophets, etc, who wrote the text of Scripture over generations upon generations wrote what they wrote apart from a supervising deity.

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                           Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           ********
                           
                           The Jewish Bible today is just as it was always written, not the English Bible.
                           
                           As soon as the Greeks started writing, it was changed.

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                           A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           YES, WRITTEN BY MEN.
                           
                           
                           
                           Then, you obviously ignore all other scriptures written long before the Bible from religions that are quite similar. Those scriptures refute your argument.
                           
                           As well, you can only assert there was a "supervising deity" - that is not something you or anyone else can prove to be true.

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                     Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     ******************
                     
                     God said he is ONE God, not 3 in one.

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                     Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     *******
                     
                     If you don't keep his law, you're not one of his, regardless of what you think.
                     
                     Paul didn't write the scriptures below, but you need to believe them.
                     If you don't keep the law, you are just a lost sinner.
                     
                     1 John 2:3
                     And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
                     
                     1 John 2:4
                     He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
                     
                     1 John 3:4
                     Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
                     
                     1 John 3:24
                     And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
                     
                     1 John 5:2
                     By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
                     
                     1 John 5:3
                     For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
                     
                     1 John 5:18
                     We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not

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                  Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  **************
                  
                  I keep God's law and millions of others do.
                  
                  Why do you think no one does? God's laws are not hard.

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                     MickeySrposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     If you think God's law stating that we are not to murder means only and exclusively that you should not murder another . . . in other words, if you think you can get away with hating your neighbor as long as you don't actually end his life, then I keep God's law as well as you and multitudes of others. But you are missing the whole point and purpose of the law and the promise of the Messiah.
                     
                     This is not even close to a matter of Paul concocting a new religion discordant with Jesus' teaching . . . you need not quote from only the other apostles, Paul taught that only those who keep the law are safe with God as well - but He, and Jesus and the other apostles, also taught that no man can keep God's law and that no man was ever able to keep God's law and that the point and purpose of the law was never for men to obey their way into heaven.
                     
                     Do you honestly believe that the one true God who created and sustains all that is cares if you eat shrimp or not, have the right type of fringe appropriately attached to your clothes, or that the shedding of the blood of sheep does anything for Him? Do you participate in the offer blood sacrifices to Him? All these things have reason and purpose, but only in preparing the way, not in and of themselves. Again, you make the worshiping the God of Abraham just like every other false religion in world - the days you celebrate are different days, the food you eat or don't eat is different, etc, but it all amounts to the same thing . . . if I do all these things just right god will approve of me. That makes the one true faith no different than Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, etc, etc.   
                     
                     God gave us all kinds of signposts, all kinds of instruction about the one true sacrifice that was to come . . . no earthly priesthood amounts to anything, the point is THE one true great high priest has come - but you have turned all the signposts, all the instruction about the promised Messiah into a false religion of works. Do you really believe that you own any capacity to stand before God, perfect love and holiness, and assert to Him that you have been so good down here and that you have kept His law so perfectly, that you are so flawless and without spot or blemish, that you in all your life have never failed to keep any tiny portion of one of His laws, that you deserve to be with Him forever in His paradise?!
                     
                     God knows you better than you know yourself; that's why His plan was never to give His holy law to men expecting them to keep it, that's why He came Himself to die in your place and give you His own holiness, that's the promise was given in the beginning - that's why Jesus is our only hope.

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                        Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        **************************
                        
                        I said I keep God's law. I do not think I am allowed to hate. I hate no one
                        
                        We are not suppose to get angry without cause. If there is a cause anger is not wrong.
                        
                        I know the detailed laws. I still say: I keep God's laws.
                        
                        Now if you are judging me, that is between you and God as long as you don't harass me over this.
                        
                        I am sorry for those who can't keep the laws, but just because someone can't doesn't mean no one can.
                        
                        I brought up Paul because he is the only one who said we can't.
                        
                        Do you accept or reject this scripture?
                        
                        1 John 2:3
                        And hereby we do know that we know him, if we keep his commandments.
                        
                        1 John 2:4
                        He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not his commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him.
                        
                        1 John 3:4
                        Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
                        
                        1 John 3:24
                        And he that keepeth his commandments dwelleth in him, and he in him. And hereby we know that he abideth in us, by the Spirit which he hath given us.
                        
                        1 John 5:2
                        By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God, and keep his commandments.
                        
                        1 John 5:3
                        For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments: and his commandments are not grievous.
                        
                        1 John 5:18
                        We know that whosoever is born of God sinneth not; but he that is begotten of God keepeth himself, and that wicked one toucheth him not
                        
                        Not eating shellfish is something different..shellfish is unclean, why? it has parasites
                        I've never said not eating shrimp will get me to heaven.
                        You say all this because you don't understand.
                        
                        God did not die, Yahshua did.
                        Yahshua is not God

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                           Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Deborah, are you suggesting that gentile believers submit to the 613 Mosaic laws?
                           
                           I can appreciate that not one stroke of the pen shall be removed from the law but Yashua was visiting "the lost sheep of Israel" when he made these statements. I am most others on this forum are not Israelites. Is it reasonable that we in effect convert to Judaism?

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                              Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I told you one other time..The Gentiles are to Keep the 10 commandments and the 4 laws the Apostles gave the Gentiles.
                              
                              All of them are easy to keep.
                              
                              As a matter of fact, keeping the law isn't the subject of this thread. I was replying to someone's comment.

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                                 Disappearingheadposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Thanks Deborah, I was just seeking confirmation, as there are those here that believe you are advocating return to the law.
                                 
                                 So if it's just the 10 commandments and the 4 rules, then that's easy. No need for anyone to get all worked up about it.

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                     A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     There are quotes in scriptures that would have us kill our children for talking back and stone to death those who would work on the Sabbath. Do you follow those quotes?
                     
                     Of course not, you follow the laws of men, our judicial system, not gods.

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                        Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        **********
                        There is no law to kill children, nor to work on the Sabbath
                        
                        Amazing how people imagine stuff and recall it as scripture.

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                           A Troubled Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           If one curses his father or mother, his lamp will go out at the coming of darkness.  (Proverbs 20:20 NAB)
                           
                           All who curse their father or mother must be put to death.  They are guilty of a capital offense.  (Leviticus 20:9 NLT)
                           
                           The LORD then gave these further instructions to Moses: 'Tell the people of Israel to keep my Sabbath day, for the Sabbath is a sign of the covenant between me and you forever.  It helps you to remember that I am the LORD, who makes you holy.  Yes, keep the Sabbath day, for it is holy.  Anyone who desecrates it must die; anyone who works on that day will be cut off from the community.  Work six days only, but the seventh day must be a day of total rest.  I repeat: Because the LORD considers it a holy day, anyone who works on the Sabbath must be put to death.'  (Exodus 31:12-15 NLT)
                           
                           

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         Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         ***********************
         
         I cannot worship God and someone else. I am not following the Jewish when I say this. I read it in scripture.
         I reject Yahshua only as being God, but in no other way.
         To worship any other is to worship Idols.
         
         Yahshua is not God.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      On day six of creation when God decides to create man God says "Let US,   create man in OUR image." Who is the US in Our if not God and Jesus and the Holy Spirit. US does not have to mean just two.

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   Deborah Sextonposted 12 years ago

   Is the Spirit in the OT
   A Person Other Than God?
   
   "The men of the Old Testament knew nothing of the Holy Spirit as a hypostasis existing in His own Person with God. . . . The Old Testament shews no knowledge of a distinct person or hypostasis of the Spirit." Theodore of Mopsuestia, AD 392-428.
   
   "Explicit recognition of the divinity of the Spirit did not take place for some time; the evolution of the Church's theology was a slow process." Alan Richardson, Creeds in the Making (1935), p. 116
   
   "There is nothing [in the OT] that compels us to regard the Spirit in a Trinitarian fashion. It is enough to give us pause that devout and learned Jews, making a very close study of the Old Testament with a reverent acceptance of what it says as the very Word of God, do not come to a belief in a Spirit in any way separate from the Father." Leon Morris, Spirit of the Living God (1960), pp. 28-29

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   shea duaneposted 12 years ago

   wow, it must be great to know everything.

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      Deborah Sextonposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      **********
      
      I don't claim to know everything, but isn't that what the Christians claim?
      
      I do however know how to interpret scripture using Hebrew and Greek.

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   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   why bother about god so much...if god can choose a nation , such god is narrow minded entity not worthy to be discussed...choosing 1% of population of the world itself is being biased...who cares about such biased entity...fortunately that god is creation of authors who where humans...

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