I just heard him say ....

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   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   i just heard him say on TV  ...   that unless I send a check to him, God can;t do anything??
   
       Don't know about them people on TV  but I don't want to serve a God that can't do nothing without me !  (and my check).
   
       now !  I really I am going to bed; see Ya in the AM

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      kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Though that comes from the mouth of a liar, not by intention but by natute...it still is truth.
      
      Unless one act by faith (founded upon knowing Truth) God to that one is powerless to do anything.

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         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         I shouldn't have posted this, though it just sounded so strange when he said, God can't do anything,     unless I do this or that.

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   paradigmsearchposted 12 years ago

   If nothing else, at least us lab rats amuse Him.

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   SandyMcCollumposted 12 years ago

   Our pastor once told us that God cannot lie... I beg to differ... If he can make miracles, raise the dead, heal the sick, etc., then why can't he lie? I believe he doesn't lie, he chooses not to, but my God can do anything.

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      lifelovemysteryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Numbers 23:19 tells us that it is impossible for God to lie. "God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?"

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         wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         That God should or should not lie or change his mind is a far cry from it being impossible.  I don't see that that verse says anything at all about anything being impossible to God.  He is, after all, omnipotent and can do anything.

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            lifelovemysteryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Lying is a sin and he has no reason to sin. The interpretation I provided is from the NIV Bible.

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               wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Lying is often regarded as a sin, yes, but not always.  It is also often regarded as a "goodness" - a kindness to the recipient of the lie.  A partial truth can be considered to be a lie, but often is accepted as simply being incompletely truthful and thus not a sin.  Saying the truth while simultaneously giving the appearance of meaning something else is accepted as truth even though it is a complete lie.
               
               The point is that you cannot define sin - only God.  And His definition, when describing His actions, is often very different than ours when describing our own actions.  Add in that you actually have no idea if God has a reason to lie to mankind and it would appear that you are trying to describe the God you want to be, not necessarily the one that is there.
               
               God has repeatedly sinned egregiously (by standards we set ourselves), beyond what any but the most demented and amoral of our race would or even could do, but He does not consider them sins.  I think it not only possible that He would lie, but probable to the point of certainty.

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                  lifelovemysteryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I actually can define sin as it is laid out in scripture. There are no fine lines or gray areas. Lying is in itself deceitful, whether one has something to gain or not.
                  
                  We see God from different points of view. I will agree to disagree.

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                     wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     You are probably right in being able to define sin from the scripture.  I refer to mankinds current definition of sin in our own culture, which is often gray.  A "white" lie to make someone feel better, for instance.
                     
                     I'm also sure we see God from different points of view.  I look at His actions taken from the bible, while you look at what you want Him to be.  His frequent punishment, including death, of innocent peoples for the sins of their forefathers is, in my opinion, a sin in itself but God obviously doesn't see it that way.  His teaching of how to get and keep slaves is a sin in my mind, but obviously not His. 
                     
                     Bottom line - yes, we will simply have to agree to disagree.

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                        lifelovemysteryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        I don't see God as who I want him to be. I see him as who he says he is.
                        
                        Punishment comes in all forms, and those in rebellion know that sooner or later it will find them. Scripture does not teach how to get and keep slaves. It teaches what happened to people when they were in rebellion. It also teaches that when they were freed from their bondage that they were blessed by God and by their masters. I am referring to the Israelites held in captivity by the Egyptians.
                        
                        If you read the word, you will also discover that they lived in the best part of the area, and it was not affected by any of the plagues. My point is that God punishes for rebellion, but can also bless people during this trial.

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                           wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           You see God as who He says He is - I see God by His actions.
                           
                           How many totally innocent Egyptian children and infants were killed by God because of the sins of their parents?  Those children had done nothing wrong, but were nevertheless killed and their souls forfeit.  So that God could make a point to His chosen people - he could have simply spirited them away but chose instead to punish the Egyptian children. 
                           
                           When I refer to slaves, I was referring to those people kept as slaves by the Isrealites under Gods direction and instruction.  Treated humanely (from the instructions given) they were still slaves - a result of one of the most degenerate and evil practices mankind has ever used against his own species.

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                              lifelovemysteryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I'm sorry, but you really have misinterpreted scripture.
                              The Egyptian children were not killed because of the sins of their parents.
                              The Hebrew children (boys) of the age 2 and under were killed by a jealous ruler.
                              The Egyptian children were killed because of a rebellious ruler. Egyptian families were influenced by the Israelites, and knowing the cause of the plagues, could have followed their direction by applying blood to the doorpost of their homes.
                              
                              Held in captivity for 400 years, the Israelite's were not always treated humanely. I respectfully suggest that you do a little research before making such broad statements.

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                                 wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 I rest my case.  Egyptian first born were killed (including infants and small children) because of a rulers disbelief and because of their parent's disbelief.  Not for anything that they did themselves.  Personally I find that quite evil.
                                 
                                 The Jews were told to paint their doors with blood - how many Egyptians do you think got the word?  Do you really think that the average Egyptian in the street knew why the plagues came?  Do you think their rulers explained it to them?  And if they did, was it up to a 1 year old kid to get the blood and paint the door frame when his father didn't? 
                                 
                                 Should my neighbor transgress against my family, even to murder, I might kill him but I would never harm an infant in his house.  The child has done nothing wrong.  To take out my anger or grief on a small infant is beyond belief - it is the mark of a madman.
                                 
                                 What God did to Egyptian children is not much different than 911, except it was directed specifically against children instead of the population in general.  Innocent people killed in an act of pure terrorism to gain freedom for the Jews.
                                 
                                 Although the story of the plagues is almost certainly just that - a story about the greatness of God with little basis in fact - it is indicative of the kind of God the bible presents to us.  The people of the time found nothing wrong with terrorism against children and thus God was great when He killed small innocent children.  We know better, having civilized ourselves somewhat, and must either accept that the Christian God is an evil fraud or understand that the bible does not portray the actual scenario that happened.  It lies, in other words.

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                                    lifelovemysteryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    You may believe that God is a terrorist, but you fail to realize how many chances and how much grace he offers. There is no 'one and done' situation. He laid out the rules, applied grace and people rebelled. In those times as in ours, we are subject to the authority of our government. The Egyptians knew the plagues were from God and they knew the reason for them. I think if you read more and make fewer assumptions you will begin to see this a bit differently.

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                                 wildernessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 *add*  I did not mean that the Jews were treated humanely; I referred to the slaves the Jews kept.  God's directions on how to keep a slave were, for the most part, humane.  At least by standards then.

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                                    lifelovemysteryposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    Collosians 1:4  Masters, provide your slaves with what is right and fair, because you know that you also have a Master in heaven.
                                    
                                    Collosians 3:22-24 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to curry their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord. Whatever you do, work at it with all your heart, as working for the Lord, not for human masters, since you know that you will receive an inheritance from the Lord as a reward. It is the Lord Christ you are serving.
                                    
                                    wilderness, it is not my intent to argue with you - just to present the facts. Peace.

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      kessposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Can Truth be a lie....
      
      It does appear so....but only for a while.
      
      The Faith of the Father will not allow him to go against his own self ...if he does then He disqualifies himself from being who he is.
      
      Then all existence fails...
      
      God cannot Lie.

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      Dave Mathewsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Sandy: There is "Part Truth", in what you say. God can do anything except to go against himself. God will never lie. God will never like even the smallest of sins. God will never go against anything he has told you he can or will do. That is not God. That is not who God is. That is not what God is about.
      
      Since God is pure, unsolicited, unconditional love, God cannot now not ever lie.

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         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Then God didn't create everything.

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   donotfearposted 12 years ago

   Last night I heard a preacher say that God doesn't love us just as we are.
   
   How can we come to Him if He doesn't love us?  That's the point. We as humans can never make ourselves worthy enough in His eyes, that's why Jesus was sent to the world in the first place: as our attorney.

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      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      donotfear wrote
      Last night I heard a preacher say that God doesn't love us just as we are.
      
      How can we come to Him if He doesn't love us?  That's the point. We as humans can never make ourselves worthy enough in His eyes, that's why Jesus was sent to the world in the first place: as our attorney.
      = = - - ===
      ME
        Exactly !   And how can he put as much love on us,  as he wants to, when we won't come near?
      
        My arguements against religion have never been against GOD, but against the lies some people say he said, for their own self interest.

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         Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Do you realize what has happened to airfares? God needs money, too! He loves on line gambling. (We're trying to talk him into treatment, but all he says is: I"M GOD!

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      Druid Dudeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      God loves us as we are, but as we are is not what God would have us be. We are the sum of our experiences, and in exercising free will, mean to circumvent God's will. You can't circumvent God's will.

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   luvpassionposted 12 years ago

   Hi Jerami...you guys
   
   (((hugs)))
   Teri

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