If God wants followers, he should stop hiding behind Jesus

1. 61

   mischeviousmeposted 12 years ago

   If I ask christians to explain God, they talk about Jesus. If I ask them about Jesus, they talk about God. If I ask them to talk about creation without God, they bring up Jesus and the circle just keeps going round.

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      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If I ask christians to explain God,they talk about Jesus.
      - - -
      Let me ask you; do you have a clear uderstanding of who are Christians?
      Like what is the minum requirement for being one
      
      ===========================
      If I ask them about Jesus, they talk about God.
      
      = = =
      
        I would think this is because if you don't understand the God concept Ya can't understand who the messiah is.
      =============================================
      
      If I ask them to talk about creation without God, they bring up Jesus and the circle just keeps going round.
      
      - - - -
      
        Maybe this is because a christian can not imagine creation without some kind of consept of God?
      
         And even then, no one realy understands the complete concept of God.
      WE (if I am one) can only give a vain attempt of our own small "Concept" of who God is.
      
         What do you want to know?
      
         I'll do the best that I can to explain my concepts if you are interested?

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         mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Does there have to be a creator? Can the universe not have just created it's self? Are we realy seeing what we think we're seeing? Is it possible to explain it without adding omniscience? Can it be done without both unproven methods?

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            brittanytoddposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It is, but some people like to have faith in a greater power.  You shouldn't let it bother you.

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            AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            No. The Universe cannot just create itself. Look in the mirror what do you see? How could the universe create you? Look at the stars in the Universe, the Universe could not just create that. The oxygen that you breath the Universe cannot create that. Allowing you to breath when you sleep without your heart skipping a beat, the Universe cannot create that either. Giving you emotion to love, laugh, cry and hurt the Universe can't do it either. There is a God.

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               mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I never said I didn't believe in a God, I just think religion and belief should a take back seat to reality. It's not real, only a guess as to what is going on. Why any of this, us and all of creation is here, we may never know. I can say it's interesting and fun to think of an all powerful deity, but it doesn't explain anything about our current situation.
               
               I could say I believe in a God and I could say that, that God created everything. But, it isn't really that important to me. I love my God, I love life and people more.

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               Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean other can't.

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Hallelujah! 

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      klarawieckposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      God doesn't want any followers. People who believe in God want others to follow God, but God won't be affected by how many people believe or follow. If God wanted followers, he would have opened a Twitter account.

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   4. 71

      getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      God is hiding behind Jesus, because God hates people, and wants nothing to do with them, since the fall...and Sodom and Gomorah, etc.  God can't stand people, so His only contact has to be through proxy...cause God might get mad at humans again and start smiting left and right.  So it is safe this way.  Read your bible, man, it's all in there.  Peace

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      1. 59

         Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Yes and no!   He is sitting back for 42 prophetic months while the beast blasphemes.
         
           If 62 weeks from 538 bc until the messiah is killed is 568 earth years then 42 months would be about 1648 years.
         
           God said he will be sitting back until the 42 months is completed, ...  but he tells us about all them trumpet judgments and bowl judgments which will be happening in the mean time.
         
           the 42 months (1638 years) is about to draw to an end. Then he will have something to say!

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            getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Good, because He hasn't uttered a word yet.  I just hope He's not mad at me, like He was at those poor souls in the OT.  OMG!!!

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2. 59

   Jeramiposted 12 years ago

   You
   Does there have to be a creator? Can the universe not have just created it's self?
   = = =
   
   ME
     I don't think the universe could have created itself.
     Isn't there a law of physics called  Cause and effect?
   
     To deny this basic law in essence is denying science.
   What ever that cause was, which caused the "BIG BANG"; ...                  (if that is what it was), is the thing which we have come to call God.
   
   ====================================
   
   Are we realy seeing what we think we're seeing?
   
   = = =
   Me
     "Nothing is what it apears to be". 
     That is written in scripture someplace, I just don't remember where.
   
   
   =================================
   
     Is it possible to explain it without adding omniscience?
   
   = = =
   
     Sure it can  ...   just like you can have chocholotte and nuts on your ice cream or not.  Personally I want something on mine.
   
   ==========================
   
   Can it be done without both unproven methods?
    
     = = =
   
   me
      sure it can ...  see last answer!

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   1. 60

      Paul Wingertposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      What makes something written 2000+ years ago be taken as 100% true without question?

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3. 61

   Eric Newlandposted 12 years ago

   You mean that if Jesus wasn't holding God back He'd have more than the two billion followers He already has? This whole Christianity thing might actually start catching on?

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   Emile Rposted 12 years ago

   So, are you saying you've found God?

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      Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Who are you talking to?  The original poster or me?
      If it's me, then yes I've found God, or He found me; beautiful thing no matter what.

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         Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         Him. He said God was hiding behind Jesus.

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            Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            Okay, now I get it.

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         2. 61

            mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

            It's a figurative question... Can a person know God without Jesus? I posed this question directly for christians, in an attempt to see if they could look at their respective system, in a more critical way. I think that there is no concrete answer, aside from the fact that I am and I have an individual position/attitude/perspective.

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               Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               God and Jesus are the same Being, the same Spirit.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  Then it is true we are all the same spirit, it can't be set aside for the role of the one, it must apply to all.

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                     Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     No. You're apparently equating humans with God.  Many people (both secular and religious) have made that mistake.

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                        mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        Absolutely... You're damn right I am. If it wasn't for humans, God would not exist.

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                           Brenda Durhamposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           You must be thinking of the FSM.  Some liberal college student, wasn't it, that invented "him"?

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                              mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              I'm thinking that God is a result of wishful thinking and an early hominid's need to understand.

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                              jomineposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              Some rebellious Jews, wasn't it, who invented Jesus?

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                              1. 61

                                 mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 For all I know, jesus could've been a wise sandal salesman, with all that walking around and all.

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                                 1. 59

                                    Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    well;  if Ya don't think that Jesus was the Messiah who was spoken of through the OT, then Ya gotta throw the Old testament away also.
                                    
                                      Now! I will disagree with the commonly held interpretations of what people say that the scri[ptures say!
                                    
                                       Why interpret something that makes perfect sense exactly as written?
                                    
                                       If Jesus says it is UP, why interpret it to mean down or streight over to the left?

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                                    1. 61

                                       mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       Jesus is a story, used to draw in followers. Propaganda, basically...

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                                       1. 59

                                          Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                          So do you believe the same concerning some sort of supreme being/conciousness?

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                                             mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                             Not necesarily, I just think that whatever we choose to believe, is a product of our condition. We are alone in these bodies and our understanding of them is as limited as our understanding of the concept of God. In other words, there's just not enough data to confirm which reality is which. My version would be no more accurate than the next.

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                                             1. 59

                                                Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                Not necesarily, I just think that whatever we choose to believe, is a product of our condition. We are alone in these bodies and our understanding of them is as limited as our understanding of the concept of God.
                                                
                                                ======================
                                                
                                                  I have to agree with this statement such as it is written.
                                                We should listen to ourselves with more sincerity for from within is the most knowlegable as to who we are, what we see and hear.
                                                
                                                  This is the greatest problem most of us have. don't necessarily believe all the smoke and mirrors,  and honestly  to thine own self be true.
                                                
                                                   Lie to me all Ya want to but never believe your own lies. Or anyone elses.
                                                
                                                   I wrote this too fast.  I'm not sure if it made sense. but here it goes

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                                                1. 61

                                                   mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                   I believe it's about basic psychology. If I buy a book, I am entitled to believe it. How does that make any other book invalid? It's because no religious doccument is listed as fiction or non-fiction, those labels didn't even exist yet. So of course it could be misconstrude as fact. I could choose to believe that a King novel was fact, if not for the fiction label on the binding. But, what of the iliad, or the Medica de fabrica? I could just as easily buy them as truth... Could I not?
                                                   
                                                   It is also an issue of condition, attitude and position. Age, geographic location and education are but a few cause factors in such beliefs. If I say it is a fact, likely (if I show written proof), someone will see it as true. That someone will tell a friend about said "new truth" and so on. Then in an indeterminate amount of time, I've just started a religion. I throw in a hero and a boss deity and I've just created doctrine. Provided of course, I leave no room for deviation

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                                                      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                      good luck with that if that is what you want to do?

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                                                         mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                         I don't think you quite get what I'm inferring... I don't want to start a religion or a following, I'm pointing out easy it would be, given the right circumstances, environment or timing.

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                                                            Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                            Yes I know what Ya was saying. 
                                                            
                                                               I guess if God had wanted to he could have gotten a pattent.
                                                            
                                                               I think it might all be smoke and mirroes.
                                                            
                                                               I think that most all religions teach that when we die we go back to where we came from.
                                                            
                                                                I agree with that!
                                                            
                                                                I think that this life on earth is supposed to be a new experience for us all. One that we have input in creating a life of our own choosing.
                                                            
                                                                Unfortunately we have made some very bad choices.
                                                            
                                                                And God sends prophets who attempt to stear us back onto an acceptable path toward "OUR" desired destination.
                                                            
                                                               And we can't even do very well with that.
                                                            
                                                               But.  in the end ....   we return to whence we came.
                                                               If we mess up our time here on earth,  well, I guess we just messed up a perfect opportunity.  And when we are done, we go back to where we came from tired and unhappy about what we have done.
                                                            
                                                               When it is all over, then we will realize what we have done.
                                                            
                                                               I'm pretty sure, I'll be wearing a hat of shame for a little while.
                                                            But not for ever.  I hope.

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                                                               mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                               The ancient Hindus believed we were a dream and vice a versa and that dream continues indefinitely, always changing hands. It's a cycle of recycling to the buddhists and a one stop for the mesianic faiths. Again, all pointing in one direction, never in the same way.

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                                                                  Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                                  I can understand that but I'd never be able to explain it to someone who didn't.

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                                                                     mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                                     If one can get by the conditioning of another, there will be an opening for the introduction of, other methods of reason...

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                                                               getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                                               Good for you, but I'll probably just be dead.

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                                 Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                 Jesus was most likely a real person. Did he perform miracles? Probably not. Was his mother a married virgin? No. Did Jesus die on the cross and become a martyr? Yes. Did he rise from the dead? Only in the sense that he is still talked about. Is there a God? No. Unless you have some proof? I am willing to listen.

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                                    AEvansposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                    The proof is before you. Look in the mirror you were created in God's image. Your heart beats doesn't it? You feel sorrow and joy do you not? The universe nor anything else can give you that, only God can.

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                                       Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                                       No the proof is before you. God has no image. No one has seen God.

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               Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

               I think they are all different. I know when I was a kid in a Christian church, my understanding was that Jesus was a big brother figure, but more of a step brother. Kind of like the  famous engineer in our family who built a bridge across the planes. Some see him as God, some the arch angel Michael and I'm sure there are many many other ways he is perceived.
               
               I think, sometimes, you display more of a distaste than an understanding of the intricate tapestry of belief within the entire Christian community.

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                  mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                  I grew tired of all the posturing and hypocricy. They talk about a loving God/god one moment, the next their damning heathen children for not following Christ. "Oh he's sooo cute, too bad he's going to hell"... "We gotta convert this kid, whether he likes it or not. It's for his own good". When it doen's work with kindness, they whipe out the entire villiage and say it was God's will. Since the villiage whiping thing isn't popular anymore, they resort to more drastic measures, they build a church. When they've built a church, they zero in on the children, for children are open minded. Christians love open minds, their naive.
                  
                  They take advantage of the youthful mind and fill it with mind closing poison...

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                     Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                     I have to agree, on some levels. But I have a basic respect for the human mind. Anyone truly searching for answers will gravitate away from the simplistic explanations offered by religions. Those who want to be part of a crowd will remain within them and either follow, or lead. It's a choice they make.

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                        mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                        If I can somehow convince a people, that my religion is something interesting, they will look at it openly. Once I have the mind of one villiager, all I need do is sit back and capitolize on the naivety of the rest. Civilizing savages is easy, especially if I can back it up with magic and damnation.

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                           Emile Rposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                           Hmmm. Too simplistic for my tastes. I think there are a lot of snake oil salesmen in the ranks, but I don't see the average Christian as being controlled or hoodwinked by those salesmen. Whether they believe in a fallacy or not; these are individual decisions that are brought about by perceived life experiences. They are not all naive.
                           
                           But, for sure, pentecostals, fundamentalists and the fringe cults appear to have been indoctrinated by charismatic people who use the text to attempt to convince people of things no reasonable person could agree with.

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                              mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

                              If I say it was God, responsible for success an the devil for the evils. I can convince the simple nature of the naive... It's called taking advantage, much like an old letch and a young virgin. The young virgin is easily enticed, so too is the mind of the innocent savage.

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      Don't need to...

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5. 61

   Shiningstar4u2cposted 12 years ago

   What a moronic forum! God is a Spirit, and Jesus was the body that Spirit lived in while in this world. You just speak of things you do not understand. Try learning about God and Jesus before posting something as idiotic as this forum is. I speak no more.

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      Jeramiposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      If you speak no more, then you aren't shareing that which was given to you.
      Maybe that is good and maybe it isn't?
      
         When we speak to "Only" like minded people; nobody ever learns anything.
      
         All we would have is a mutual apreciation CLUB!

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6. 61

   hookedhuntressposted 12 years ago

   mischeviousme,I am not understanding something,if you are so anti-God,anti-Jesus then thy do you continue to post about it?
   Is it just to pad your hub score?

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I'm not anti-God. If you ask anyone on hp, I've openly given my stance. I'm not a theist, nor an atheist. I'd like to think I was on the inside looking out.

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   ferotexphilsposted 12 years ago

   Try to ask Bro. Soriano of the Old Path ( http://www.theoldpath.tv/ )

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      mischeviousmeposted 12 years agoin reply to this

      I've been a methodist, presbyterian, lutheran, catholic, jewish, buddhist, hindu, janist and a renunciant. In other words, been there, done that. I just can't see it that closed mindedly anymore. I'm sorry if that bothers some of you, but I also know that I can't expect you to understand.

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         ferotexphilsposted 12 years agoin reply to this

         What you know that you can't expect us to understand you is wrong. We perfectly understand you. Likewise that you are not also closed minded.
         I see that you've been a methodist, presbyterian, lutheran etc. Hence try to be someone and have the courage to give some time to listen and ask Bro. Soriano at  http://www.theoldpath.tv/

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8. 62

   pisean282311posted 12 years ago

   jesus was human being who was marketed by bible authors as christ....god is hiding behind jesus?...well both god and christ are concepts...jesus died 2k yrs back ...

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   KellyPittmanposted 12 years ago

   First, the definition of Christian is to be a follower of Christ, which means they believe Jesus was the Messiah.  So of course if you ask this to a Christian you will get both God and Jesus... 
   
   Also, I feel compelled to share this as well: 
   
   It's not fair to judge God or place your understanding of Him by what another human says and does.  Yes, there are people who say they believe, but just like a race - why judge all based on some?    If we say we believe in something, but then maybe act otherwise, it could be considered hypocrisy.  However, Believing is also admitting that you are a sinner yourself, not any better than another human, just accepted a gift of salvation.  Thing is, we will all make mistakes.  This does not condemn one to Hell.  It isn't right for a Christian for to "condemn" anyone!  It is not our job. 
   
   Everyone knows John 3:16 - God sent his only son that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish.......  But listen to John 3:17  God did not send His son to the world to Condemn it, but to SAVE it.  Therefore, we shouldn't go around condemning anyone else. 
   
   Sadly, we are all like children.  We only think of God as someone with a set of rules telling us all how to live and then we look at other people and judge them upon our own convictions.  Such as saying, If I can't do this, then you can't either!"   Why some people think they have to be the Christian police is just something we'll have to deal with I guess.
   
   Bottom line is that I pray that more people will give God a chance by developing their own PERSONAL relationship with Him.  If you want answers, pray for them.  You might not hear an audible voice, but things just may start to change.

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    luckykarmaposted 12 years ago

    If you understand firstly that God is the Father, Son and Holy Ghost you will understand that when Christ was on the cross and he sang out to God, God why have thou abandonded me? To which God replied that he hadn't that he now had received God within at that time and was all three. Hard for us mortals to take in isn't it, but there has never been and will never be a GOD that comes down from heaven. They talk about the coming of Christ, and when he comes in the "Rapture" not mentioned in the bible, only in the churches, then there will be 144,000 pure humans "taken up" they refer that to the rapture.
    
    So there is only God (in the spirit) Jesus (human) and all three (holy ghost) why is it called Ghost? Because no one has ever seen God.

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       getitriteposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       

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       Rad Manposted 12 years agoin reply to this

       This nonsense of which you speak was design to extract money. Let me guess if you give all your money to charity you can be one of the 144 000 human taken up and I have just the charity. It's called I need a new car.
       
       You should step back and think about how illogical your statement is.
       
       Your only correct statement is that no one has ever seen God. And no one ever will. He's not there.
       
       But, there are those that will take money from weak minded greedy people trying to buy their way into heaven.
       
       If you drop a big cheque in the mail, even I'll pray you get to heaven.

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    SpanStarposted 12 years ago

    "If I ask christians to explain God, they talk about Jesus. If I ask them about Jesus, they talk about God. If I ask them to talk about creation without God"
    
    I have to say your question or quesations seems confusing...you want scientific information and to get the answers you go to a religion ot religions, wouldn't it make more sense to go to scientists?
    
    If I wanted to know how jet propulsion works I would ask someone in the business of basket weaving.

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