Apprenticeship Program
I suppose we'll know when they release the names of those chosen in the first two months, PDH. It would be strange if most were either newbies or Elite used for the training criteria though. We already know some Elite have trouble with the written word, despite their presumptuous title.
He who laughs last....well, you know the rest of it, Will!
Apparently, all of our questions on this thread are not worthy of being answered by staff. Paul gave pseudo-answer to one query among over 300 posts and that's it. About par for the course, lately. Too bad all of the future contests are now tainted. Everyone seemed to like them when they at least appeared to be fairly judged. What a shame!
Sorry to take so long to respond but I've been gone all day.
I do not wish to be an apprentice, Charles. Perhaps you've only skimmed this thread. I did apply at first before I found out more about the program. And also, no one has mentioned who the mentors are or what their credentials were. I couldn't find anything about who they were and nothing was mentioned on this thread concerning them either. For all I know they might only be Jason, Simone, or other members of the ordinary HP staff.
Ever heard of buying a pig in a poke? So I made it clear on this thread I wanted to withdraw my application when I found out how it was being handled. So you can banish out the thought of me wanting to be in the program.
Yeah, you got me Charles. My goal is to inspire newbies and greeters by doing whatever it is that inspires such folk. I cannot give them a fancy title or promote them over veteran members. That seems to inspire them just fine.
Oh, I do indeed know HP is a business, Charles. Only hard cold businessmen do not care for those who work with them for mutual benefit. I said "work with," not "for". But you see, my problem is with the appearance of the whole scenario. But I'll ask you like I asked Cardelean's mamma. Is it fair for a contestant to be mentored by the judges? Mamma didn't answer, but I'm sure you will.
Or perhaps you can tell me who exactly are the mentors and who the judges were. I will be exceedingly pleased if someone can tell me they were all different folks and also very glad to apologize here on the forums to both staff and Cardelean....I want to be wrong about this.
Even if I am wrong it just smells bad. HP staff should have known it would look that way. And if they never discussed the way it looked, well then that's not very encouraging either.
You have a perfect right to suspect whatever you please, Charles. but then, so do I. I hope you get accepted into the program, Charles. That way you can tell me who is actually in it and who is running the show. Oh wait, I don't think you can.
At any rate, I am through with this controversy and hope you guys all sing Kumbayah around the campfire. I mean it, really. Just be very careful, otherwise your marshmallows will be burnt and charred, rather than sweet and toasted.
Thanks Misty, but I assumed they could have hired some new people especially trained to do the mentoring. At any rate, I knew I would not be welcome because of my interaction with both staff and greeters. I'd much rather make less money and not have to deal with either group.
Any idea about who judged the contest?
I said much the same as you in my comment Randy (regarding mentoring)
No idea who judged the contest I am afraid, but guess it was also probably staff as opposed to professional writers, as if it was the latter I am sure they would have been named and this fact stated in the contest details etc.Yes, I'm afraid it was staff too, otherwise why wouldn't someone come out and volunteer this info. If this is indeed the case then there are two possibilities of why, and neither are very encouraging. Either they knew it was not the right thing to do, or they didn't. It's hard to decide which is the worst case scenario.
I would have been happier to see an independent and qualified judge/judges for the competition for sure. Ah well, it is done now so when they next run one hopefully the judges will be made clear from the start so those considering entering can decide if they feel those people are capable judges
Before this contest I would not have cared if staff judged it if they had kept the apprentices out of it. I don't believe it will happen again, though.
Well done, Charles.
Good luck finding out who they are, Rebekah.
Yep! With only 30 per month being accepted, most are told to reapply 6 months down the road. You can have my spot though.
Check back in a couple of generations! 
I did, and was told to re-apply in six months. I actually think this is fair enough, I have not published on average two hubs per week, or taken part in the 30 hubs in 30 days challenge, all which have been available to me during my time at Hubpages. There have been reasons why I haven't, other writing commitments etc. Having said that, I can see where Hubpages staff are coming from, they've provided the opportunity for learning and progression for all of us. I'm actually cool with their decision, there are new hubbers that have written more hubs than I have within their first 30 days, and older hubbers too, I might add. Yeah, I'm cool with there decision, now I just need to write more hubs. EWW, politics... no more forum posts, just hubs.
I wasn't invited, I applied. But it's all good.
Marcy, thank you for your thorough response. I do understand that writers are not always the source and that's certainly one important reason writing is a profession. Businesses need writers. Artists need writers, musicians, etc.
I suppose the reason I brought up the topic is because as long as I've been here on HP, there seemed to be an emphasis to write on what we know well and love. So that's really what I have written. I've had to do some additional research on certain topics, but most of what I write comes from my knowledge and experience.
I think of copywriting when articles are written strictly to give information. With more people reading online than offline, I think there are times when those kind of articles can be tedious and repetitive. They say the same thing that someone else has written. While I understand these types of articles are necessary, I want my hubs to be a resource of writing from my interests, professional qualifications and the occasional fun stuff.
I'm not a full time writer. I'm sure I may think differently if I was! But I love the writing process and being read. I think it's fascinating that people from all over the world can read our hubs.
I'm sure you were selected because of your knowledge, experience and ability to produce informative, well-written hubs. Good luck and thanks for replying.Just what HP needs. More folks writing about things they have no experience in whatsoever. Those who cannot do, teach.
I suppose the old axiom about writers choosing subjects they know from personal experience is now outdated. At least on HP, it seems.
Wrong, there are plenty of sacred cows here to flog, Shanna. Bovine intelligence is alive and well here as has been thorough exemplified by those who know no better. Not calling any names, of course!
And too bad for you, the forums are open to the opinions of many here. Not just the chosen. Sorry! (not really)
Of course not, Susan. People write about things all of the time they have no knowledge of. But it doesn't mean it will be accepted as fact or worthy of reading. I do like the "Titanic" analogy though. It may be even more pertinent than you imagine. Only enough lifeboats for the crew and other certain passengers, perhaps? Did you get invited into the AP, Susan?
Is there a secret handshake?
Wow! At least they didn't choose any silly members!
I highly recommend you join the "Elite" group Shanna. You do indeed have the required qualifications. Perhaps a bit more tan on your proboscis will do the trick! (Joking)
Of course! Those online dictionaries are handy, aren't they?
No I didn't
Sorry, perhaps your loyalty to the site is too obvious!
I have absolutely no interest in being in any program HP staff are teaching. This is especially true since the last contest was so completely manipulated by them. I have no desire to learn from those who do such. Of course, there will always be those who don't care for fairness and honesty, but unfortunately, they usually come out smelling like a rose. In this case, a rose by any other name.....still stinks!
Yes, it is indeed a bad fault to have, Shanna. Perhaps it was the way I was raised to dislike things clearly wrong and speak out against them instead of running away like a scared little girl. I'm sorry I simply can't put up with cr*p like those of you who seem to take it as a matter of course. We all have our faults. Well, almost everyone, but not you, of course. Write on, sister!
Yes. This is indeed a moral dilemma worthy of a civil war. DON'T LET THEM CRUSH YOU BROTHER!
Also, I take offense to your scared little girl comment. My older brother ran away scared far more times than I ever did.Ha, no chance of that hapening, Shanna. I've dealt with such writing sites before. They all end up the same way when they finally reach this point. You'll find out for yourself if you stay here long enough. 2 months? The voice of experience your certainly are not. I am cutting you some slack simply because of that fact, believe it or not!
Being sandboxed is a new experience for any of us here. We hoped it would only last for six months, but from all accounts it can last up to a year.
I am convinced it is the sandbox effect that has been applied to some of us. If our accounts do not resume normal traffic after 12 months, we can assume it is something else entirely.
From what Randy has reported, some of his traffic has returned but only back to the level he experienced when he was only on site for six months or so.
None of mine has. I had a pre-Christmas boost when some of my new hubs hit some important non-Google traffic, but since that has died away so has my earnings and traffic. I give up, I really do - on this account anyway.
I have several hubs that are front page on Bing, Yahoo and other search engines, that have never received one single visit from Google.
Unfortunately their traffic levels can't compete.
It is horrible because it seems like everyone (non-HP)is stealing my hubs and ranking for them, while mine are buried.
Still, my new subdomains keep me busy and make writing here fun again
Thanks Izzy! You are one of the few truly honest folks on this site. Those who have not experienced our dilemma are usually the very ones who feel compelled to weigh in on our predicament. I suppose it's only human nature. But for some, "inhumane" may be a better description.
I have taught others myself. But only things I am fully experienced in. I cannot speak for those who merely read about subjects and attempt to pass themselves off as completely knowledgeable in the field.
Only if they are not taught by ancient Greek philosophers, or don't have actual hands-on experience in Greek philosophizing!
But I do believe getting a job as an ancient Greek philosopher is tough these days, and I'm not sure what the going rate of pay is either.
Lol!
Fine with me, Marcy! Mormon..er I mean..mum's the word!
Careful. Marcy and I are members of the Mormon Mafia. We'll come after you.....
Are you both married to the same husband too?
habee, I've lived with a constant "identity crisis" and insecurity when it comes to what I write on this site, because I've never really known what we're "supposed to be writing". All we ever used to hear was that Hubs that are useful, informative or unique" tend to do best. So, without ever really having one particular style of Hub in mind, I've just written "whatever". Sometimes it might be what I see as "a good Hub". So often, I think it's "just my own going on and on about something".
I've never changed my ways, though, because sometimes some of the least formal/professional pieces of writing make it the first place in a search. Personally, I'm embarrassed to see some of those in first place because I pretty much see them as "crap". Maybe not crap as far the information goes, but crap in terms of what "an article" is supposed to look like.
On the other hand, I've written some Hubs in reply to people's questions about serious things in life; and I've gotten traffic and/or feedback that makes me see the value in some of those persona-experience/insight things. I once got an e.mail from a woman who had lost her child a year earlier. She said she'd found my Hub after "searching everywhere" and looking for something that might apply to what she was going through as the first anniversary of her awful loss came around. She said she "finally hit it" when she found my Hub. That meant so much to me. Even as I write this I kind of feel like crying or like I"m close to goose bumps all this time later. It just kind of hit me, too, that there really is something to be said for sharing some things we've picked up along the way. Her particular loss was unique to her, but she'd been looking for something that had nothing to do with type of loss. Personal experience doesn't have to involve something big and awful, like loss, though.
Where my challenge on this site has been has been how to present that personal-experience stuff. I don't want to lead readers to think I'm an expert, so I make it a point to write from the first-person point-of-view. That, of course, makes the Hub look unprofessional Then, though, I've always figured that HP lets people post poetry and fiction, so I've always figured that a first-person non-fiction piece ought to be OK.
With some personal experiences, just adding a quickie line, like, "I've lost a number of people in life," won't always say where or how some insight has grown. A quickie line like that is likely to get a reader to think, "So, what? Who hasn't? What makes you any different?"
So sometimes, in order to really help a reader see "the formation" of an insight or an idea or even technique, a lot more has to be added if the Hub isn't going to have someone thing, "So where'd this information come from?"
So, it's always been a challenge; and I'm particularly glad to see that HubPages is acknowledging that writing from personal experience can be a valid thing to do.Excellent example, Lisa. My most visited--and best earning too, by the way--hubs are those I have personal and/or hands-on experience with. Apparently I had so many sites linking to these hubs that Google thought I was gaming the system when I switched to my sub-domain. I've been in the sand box for over 9 months now. What a great reward for supplying needed and appreciated information.
These hubs are filled with many questions and comments from those seeking easy to understand solutions for their problems which, I am glad to say, are usually answered by my self. Let someone research this stuff and try to do the same without personal experience. Some subjects cannot be merely researched and written well about by complete novices, no matter what some may infer.
Bianu, I don't at all think a person can't come up with an informative article that's based only on research. I've been that desert nomad writing about ice and snow many times over the years. I don't think there's a thing wrong with it. That kind, and personal-experience writing, are just different. I do, though, maintain that person who has made his way through snow and ice and has managed to survive has a lot more depth (and often personal-know-how) to offer when he writes about it (particularly if he makes his Hub informative, as well as "insightful").
One real advantage to personal experience, though, is that it helps us recognize when what's out there in terms of research is incomplete, inadequate, or even incorrect (and that happens more than a lot of people would realize if they didn't have one experience or another). I wouldn't give examples of the number of Hubs I've seen that look "all professional and well researched", but that contain inaccurate information. It's obvious that the Hub is "all research" and no personal exposure/experience to the subject. Yet, there'll be comments like, "Great Hub. Excellent research."
Discretion is the better part of valor. I asume you guys still believe there are people living on the sun also?
I believe one of your main characters said this, or am I mistaken?
Oh really? It was stated as truth by either the con man Joseph Smith or Brigham Young, both owners of many wives themselves. I'm surprised at you guy's lack of knowledge concerning your own religious leaders. Perhaps now I understand why you guys are in the apprentice program.
(Only kidding about the last sentence)
Ah yes, Brigham. I'm always surprised at how ignorant religious people are about their leaders. He had at least 30+ wives if I'm not mistaken, as did the con man Smith. Both said so many ridiculous things it's a wonder anyone with any sense at all ever believed anything they said. But it is indeed true that ignorance is bliss.
Jump right in Glendon!
I can assure you there is no need for "pot stirrers"! HP staff accomplishes this aspect with no help from mere members. Of course, they don't do it on purpose, they simply think no one will notice. And in their defense, not many do.
Ha! If anything, HP would perhaps pay me to shut the hell up instead of stirring the pot!
They have no need for such as they create more controversy all by themselves. I often wonder if they actually discuss among themselves some of the things they spring upon us? I really cannot decide if it is good or bad if they do!
I certainly appreciate your comments, CJ! I do try to be as honest as I can about this place, but I do realize this is not always appreciated or understood by some writers here. I really do not want to cause trouble here and want HP and its writers to do well, but I've never been prone to simply ignoring wrongs just because I may have to worry about repercussions from TPTB.
I suppose being self employed for the majority of my life may have some bearing on my demeanor, such as not having to take very much cr*p. And I nominate you for head of HP, CJ!
I seriously doubt HP would even consider such a discussion, CJ. I really don't see the member's satisfaction with how things are done here to be very high on the list versus money making opportunities for the company. And after all, money is their primary objective. You, I, or any other writer here, is very expendable. Many more anxious writers are waiting in line to replace us without HP missing a step.
Public Relations--or in this case--Writer Relations, is virtually non-existent here. We end up talking to some member of staff whose real job is doing something else, not dealing with writers as real people. I believe this is why there have been so many misunderstandings among the writers and staff. Take the new format thread for example. Very little response on a topic many writers here are very concerned about. I liken it to standing in the only checkout line open in WalMart on Christmas Eve. (shudder)
Ditto what Charles said.
I do appreciate your sentiments, Sandy.
Not for us, it doesn't!
Great! You've certainly earned your shot over those who've worked hard for years here! I would suggest veteran hubbers be just as loyal to HP as HP is to them. I know I am!
Anyone else smell that stench?
I certainly hope they do not invite me, Izzy! Then I'll be tempted to tell them how I really feel!
You mean a "Greeter"?
Yes, that probably did it!
There was some well founded belief that HP could/would become NM/MLM for writing, with such elements as affiliate program, Hub Camp, Video/Audio Articles.
Hub Pages has literally and literally changed the face of online literature/publishing, forever.
It is profoundly novel for this particular platform of business. One that is genuinely untouchable, given the nature of content protection, flexibility and journeyman/apprenticeship opportunities for new writers, blended with very high-end Ad revenue programs.
Next step is internal eCom...
Then (possibly) the 3rd largest IPO in tech history.
I really think HP can out do LinkedIn any day.
The down side, I can't earn a red cent cause the google god rejected me. But, I gotta chuck of cash set aside for the stock.
James.
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