Is delusion and foolishness a prerequisite?

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   jomineposted 11 years ago

   .....for being a believer in hubpages?
   There is hubber who see satan and conspiracy in even the most innocent of symbols like a star.
   Another hubber say god talks to him.
   Another lie(a forum was started by another hubber who was fed up of her lies) and is proud of being indoctrinated.
   Another one post immature and childish commends with a lot of smileys.
   There is another who post very colorful nonsense.
   There is another who call himself "fool" for christ.
   Another one who cannot write a single sentence without quoting from bible as if nobody else have read it.
   Another person who claim he has "experience" and hence everybody should take what he says at face value.
   There is another who says she DIED at the age of THREE and saw jesus.
   But there is a common factor, none makes any sense but says they understand everything and "the non believer" lack some special organ to comprehend what they say, though what they say always defy logic and reason.
   So is delusion and foolishness prerequisites for a believer?
   
   PS: Does not mean all believers are like this, but some of the most vocal people are. There are some sensible believers, but the above people, most of the time, do not consider them as "believers".

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      AKA Winstonposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Most likely it is lack of understanding that leads to belief in anything.  Few seem to realize that reality is not based on beliefs, that the real exists irrespective of what we believe.  What we can "prove" to each other about "reality" is simply an expression of our own beliefs - and meaningless to reality itself.
      
      The best man can ever hope to accomplish is to explain reality in a rational manner.

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Too funny!

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      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      When someone makes the statement to themselves "I believe..." their past and future is not longer visible to them. They stop thinking critically and start defending.

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   kessposted 11 years ago

   The worst delusion is to see delusions of another and not those of yourself, and that is the epitome of foolishness.

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      jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I forgot to add your name, the hubber who talk only nonsense, to appear wise!

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         kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I was hoping you would agree

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            jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            A person with delusion will never agree he got delusion and will insist he or she is telling the truth. The problem is they camou differentiate between reality and fantasy. If you doubt check the posts and reply by CE, who see Satan in everybody.

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               kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               We can talk forever about what, how and whys about delusion, but unless one have found  thw way of escape, he is just.as the rest...
               
               How did you escape?....so that you may be of benefit to one who is deluded.
               
               
               Every man is absolutely right according to himself....and if his rightness is at odds with himself, it is then manifested by his own death.
               
               So the proof a mans truth is his Life or his death.
               
               So then Truth remain absolut... A few as Life and the rest as death.
               
               Does this make any sence to you?
               
               Or I guess this is more deluded nonsense from a fool....I suggest that you should laugh at me at the day of my death....I wont hold it against you actually I would want you to do so....that is if you can go against the status quo.

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                  jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  The way people think is mostly hard wired to their brain. Delusion is a wiring problem so can not be corrected. Indoctrination on the other hand may be, if the person can open up the mind and think.
                  How did I? I don't know. I was raised as a Christian, but some how I started to think about it and ask questions. When I didn't get the answers I started to study more, then started to study other religions and found that most words used by religions are just euphemisms. So I defined the words, started to think and analyse what is said.
                  And it is not my habit to laugh at the dead. I laugh at people when I hear nonsense, but that is only at the nonsense, not the person.

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                     kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     How do you tell the difference between the hardwired deluded and the indoctrinated deluded?

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                        jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        The indoctrinated is rarely deluded. When you show them the illogic of their argument they usually end up saying  "you might be right but I believe so", while the deluded simply ignore the logic(and contradiction) and insist they are right. Minor difference, but the difference between a psychotic and ordinary person.

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                           kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           You have lost me...
                           
                           
                           Am I deluded or indoctrinated...or both?

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                              jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              If you have an irrational belief with certainity you are deluded. If you have that out of fear and/or hope, it is indoctrination.

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                                 kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Come on Jomine....what do you mean "IF"....you mean you are not sure?
                                 
                                 You have declared me a nonsense talker, though you agree with my initial statement.
                                 
                                 You implied that I might be indotrinated, delusional and even psychotic.
                                 
                                 You are the one with knowledge of these things, tell me.
                                 
                                 Be a man stand with your thoughts and your words...allow the chips to fall where they may.

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                                    Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    I think maybe there is a language barrier. Jomine defined the two words for you with no uncertainty at all.

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                                       kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       I am not asking for definitions, neither should he expect me to discern anything, by his knowlegdeable observations he already knows I am unfit to make such judgements....
                                       
                                       A simple declaration is what I desire...something like this...
                                       
                                       Kess is  "such and such" because of such and such..
                                       
                                       So does he know his stuff or not.
                                       
                                       Maybe he is considering hubpages policies....he need not fear me reporting him.

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         Jesus was a hippyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I saw that coming

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Okay, I'll agree, but possibly not for the same reasons, however, no need to go into that.

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   Jeramiposted 11 years ago

   I thought that acceptence of this Illusion was the prerequesit for Life.

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   Lee Teaposted 11 years ago

   I find profound thoughts don't translate accurately through conversation. We all have insight into life, but no one can figure out how to talk about it. It's not in your own satisfactory description of what is that uncovers the light of awareness in others so that they too may see what the hell your talking about, but in leading them from the shadows of skewed perception effectively - leading them in a way they're excited to go.
   
   Which is why one man's brilliance comes off as another man's idiocy...the heart of the matter gets lost in the process of communication.

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      jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Nobody can think without words(doing so will be painfully limited) and communication is the way by which you convey to another being what you thought. So there is no point it telling words can't communicate. Words may not be able to describe accurately what you visualized but can communicate what you thought.

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         janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Plenty of people can think without words.

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            jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Not think but visualize.

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   Kennedi Brownposted 11 years ago

   I've noticed the same thing and sometimes wonder whether or not Hubpages has a predominantly religious community. Most of the discussions in the forums on agnosticism/atheism have been inactive for months if not years, and every question asked in that category seems to be challenging atheists to "explain themselves." I agree that not all believers are like this, too, but it does seem like most of the hubbers I've come into contact with have been particularly anti-skeptic and even anti-science.
   
   Or, at last, anti any science that isn't pseudoscience.

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   Lee Teaposted 11 years ago

   Thinking without words is beautifully freeing. Trying to label these thoughts with words is the painfully limited part. In your judging of the meaningless of points and the delusion of authors, you're letting precious insight pass you by. Even if you don't agree with the words as you interpret them, you are granted the opportunity to perceive life through a different consideration. For every disagreement you find, something revealing comes to light. Mull over the insight life bombards you with, instead of the reasons why everyone else is insane, and you'll find more contentment in your day.
   
   I like your post, Winston.

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   Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

   Maybe it's acase of "Invasion Of The Body Snatchers". Maybe it's because it's 2012. Maybe some kinda revival is going on. Maybe you're just blind and deaf. I know a fella that can fix that for ya! Works real cheap.

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   janesixposted 11 years ago

   Is it delusional or foolish to believe energy is transfered from the sun to your eye through tiny, invisible, undetected threads?
   
   Maybe, maybe not.

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      jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Can you differentiate between belief and explanation? What is this energy that is transferred?

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         janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         You believe that everything in the universe is connected mechanically. Do you not? Is that not your belief?

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            jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            It is not my "belief", it is an explanation, a rational explanation(without magic or contradiction) of how gravity works. Have you got another rational explanation, I have no problem considering it, if it is better I'll advocate it.

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               janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Your thread theory IS NOT rational.
               
               I have never personally heard any theory that is rational, that makes any logical sense. No theory fits all the known facts, not yet anyway. Yours is as good as any, however, and at least you are able to think for yourself, which i admire very much.

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                  jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  How do you know whether a theory is rational or not?
                  Simple, show a contradiction.

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                     janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Hmmm.. Maybe you have a point. I suppose a theory could be rational, but still not fit all of the evidence.

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                        Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        It fits the evidence available.

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                           janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           What fits the evidence available? Im not sure what you mean.

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                              Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Jomine's theory.

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                                 janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Interesting.

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                                    Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Hey Jane,
                                    
                                    As I have said before and gladly repeat(this time), it is possible for one individual person to know everything there is known at the present time. A rational theory can be done based on the collective knowledge of humankind.
                                    
                                    That person will obviously not know of things which are not yet evident.

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                                       janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes. And i suspect the truth of reality is much weirder than we can imagine at the present time.

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                        jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        A theory is a story/movie constructed taking into account all the available facts. When you don't take all the facts, there might be contradictions. That is why we have to revise our theories when new facts become available.

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                     kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Based on your test for irrationality....then I submit it is irrational for the living to expect death.
                     
                     Is it irrational for be to believe such a thing?

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                        janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Well, we dont have proof of any immortals. And tons of evidence of death.

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                           kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Rationality must first have proof...and irrational ones at that?

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                              janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Um. What?

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                                 mischeviousmeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't think alot of people see death as a natural part of life, that period of time between the womb and assisted living... They seem more to think of it as having something to do with rationality...

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                                    janesixposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Ok what am i missing here? Im pretty sure im going to die.

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                                 kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Then forget it.

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                        jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Explanation is regarding past, not future.
                        If you want to discuss, define your terms.

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                           kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           I think a simple yes/no is answer is good enough...with and added explanation if you think neccessary...
                           
                           But discussion, defined by terms? Dont know where to start...
                           
                           Remember I am the one who talks nonsense....

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                              jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              You still are. Without knowing what you ask, nobody can answer.

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                                 kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 You say i speak nonsense but yet still clamours for conversations/discussion.....
                                 
                                 why ? to show yourself as wise.?
                                 
                                 Did your wisdom not teach you that a fool only begets more foolishness?
                                 
                                 I ask a simple yes /no question....did you not understand it as such.

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                                    jomineposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    the hubber who talk only nonsense, to appear wise!!

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