I will be waiting a long time for Cagsil to do that hehe. Maybe the opening poster might but then I would know before her because our 24th comes before everyone else's. A positive of living down under.
lol, yes I concur, well I have had an interesting day, I better rest up for the 24th"......Gdnite.
Why would Jesus if he ever existed want to return to this dump of a planet that we are trashing with all of our filth....he's ran off with his private stash of Easter Eggs and he aint ever coming back!!!
"But the exact day and hour? No one knows that, not even heaven's angels, not even the Son. Only the Father knows." Matthew 24:36
Thank you, that has been said a few times on this thread.
Your welcome Jonny. I agree, no need to re type what I have already said, that's one thing we can agree on.....or is it? Hmmm
A Thousand Words, the "Fact" is your suggesting to me what I should say, are you God? "I am being to specific", would you prefer I be vague? My evidence is grounded in Truth; that's a Fact! you are incapable of understanding that because you choose not to, this is your dilemma, and will be the most challenging hurdle you appear to have before you blah blah. Your an Atheist, you choose to think Worldly because you Choose to reject the Fact that Christianity is the only True Faith, and that's a Fact. If you don't believe this, prove me wrong! But remember, did I ever say once that I was proving my Fact! Hope I was not to specific for you.
Ok? Your post is... not a proper response to what I said.
First of all, who told you I'm an Atheist?
Second of all, why are you so defensive? You should find a better sense of security, dude. No one's attacking you or your God...
Thirdly, I was saying that your response was too specific while Johnny was being a bit more broad. I don't know what you thought I meant. He wasn't specifically talking about just YOU. He was making a suggestion to Christians in general, which is the point that I was making. You can be specific about Jesus and all that, it doesn't really make a difference. I just mean that you were bringing up a post that I'm not sure was the focus of his response, but I could be wrong. Either way.
Take it humbly, and chill out, bro.
Didn't your Jesus say something about the meek and what they inherit?
My "Jesus", but not yours right? My "God", but not yours right? Thank you for answering my question. Once again: Approach determines response! If you care to have a civilized discussion with me; Don't disrespect my Belief's. If you care to challenge me, do so with constructive feedback. Trust me when I say, "my sense of security is quite grounded". But if someone is going to respond in a matter I find unbecoming and deliberate to cause confrontation! I will share those same behaviors with them as well. If your going to be vague about your beliefs', don't bother replying to me.
LoL. I doubt we can't have a conversation because of me... But whatever makes you feel better.
You keep on happily making your assumptions. Non-christian is not equal to Atheist. That's all you need to know...
Hey A Thousand Words, it is as I have said when I was conversing with him. Ego is just not recognized in this one. He just doesn't see his own.
If you do or do not have a God in your life, just say so, I can accept that...either way, but if someone is going to challenge my beliefs, I would like to know where they are coming from, just be open about it. Certain individuals don't seem to get that. For example: Some people are so (Ego) driven, they cannot see past their own, if someone tells me I have Ego issues! In reality they are actually pointing out there own behaviors. "is not reverse psychology interesting". In fact explaining that to someone who has unresolved issues, will never be able to correct this deficiency, until they stop projecting it onto others.
Three quotes from your recent posts, Coleman:
1. Some people are so (Ego) driven, they cannot see past their own
2. What gave you the idea that I am trying to prove anything to anyone? is that something I said?
3. I tell ya Jonny, what is small and pathetic is your futile attempts to change my mind set.
These are what led me to mention the mirror a couple of times. There's an enormous number of mirrors throughout the world. Yet you will only see one image, directly in front of you.
An Un-believer does not Believe in God nor the existence of God. An Atheist does not believe in God or any Gods. If you have a belief, what is it?
Your black and white world needs some color, friend. Life isn't put into "either this or that" categories.
I don't believe there is an all loving, all knowing God who orchestrates the Universe and has direct contact with the people in it. So in your case, I am a non-believer, because I see no validity with the Judeo-Christian God.
The best way that I can describe my outlook on life would be Naturalistic Pantheism, I suppose.
Here's a snip-it from wikipedia:
"The core of naturalistic pantheism is reverence and respect for nature and the wider universe, as progressively revealed by the scientific method and rational interpretations of sensory information. Thus naturalistic pantheism does not believe in any Creator-deity distinct from nature, but rather that nature itself is the self-originating source of all being. This implies that anything referenced to as God or Deity within naturalistic pantheism can equally well be associated with an impersonal physical process.
Some versions of naturalistic pantheism, including that of the World Pantheist Movement, embrace some notion of natural rights, concern themselves with the welfare of humans and all living beings, and promote care for the environment (see secular humanism); while others regard all human instincts and behaviors as part of the natural world, and thus do not adopt ethical and environmentalist attitudes (see amoralism or moral nihilism)."
My approach to life is much closer to the World Pantheist Movement's ideals. However, I leave some ideas open because there's still so much about the world and the people in it that I haven't explored. It's part of why I enjoy Psychology and anthropology so much.
Don't evangelize to me, though. I already went the Christian route. For some time. I was quite devoted to "God/Jesus." I've read the bible, many versions and translations, commentary, used bible dictionaries, etc. etc. Went to a Christian college, was a "youth leader" in my youth ministry, enjoyed learning about Apologetics, yadda yadda.
That didn't answer my question? You said, Christianity is the only true faith. Maybe I will put it another way. What is true? What is faith?
Ok, what is true? Every single word, verse, chapter, book, Old Testament/New Testament in the Holy Bible (God's Word) is true, literal interpretation, not metaphorical, not hypothetical, but true. What is Faith? Faith is Believing the real world behind the material world around us. Faith is the Belief in on God; The God of our Father, The True God who Created all things, you and I etc..
So in essence Christianity is belief in the bible that can only ever be translated literally yes?
If it is only literal interpretation that is true, which version of the bible are you talking about? They don't all say the same thing?
Yes, that is what I believe. But accepting Christ Jesus as Saviour and Creater is a process of God's Grace, without it, we are incapable of Faith. For by Grace are ye saved through Faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God not of Works lest any Man should Boast. You raise a good question. I prefer the King James Version, but there are others, NIV, Gideon's and so on, but! Just because the words change, the translation does not, Gods Word is the Living Bible. Some Christians have difficulty at times understanding certain Scripture because they do not understand old English; concerning the KJV.
How so? Words have different meanings and if the translation does not change then it would not be a literal translation? So it would then rely on what we perceive the word of God to mean wouldn't it?
The following passages if taken literally mean different things to different people.
Luke 17:21
KJV
Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.
NLT
You won’t be able to say, ‘Here it is!’ or ‘It’s over there!’ For the Kingdom of God is already among you
NIV
nor will people say, ‘Here it is,’ or ‘There it is,’ because the kingdom of God is in your midst.”[a]
This passage is saying that as believers we have the reassurance that the kingdom is near to us, "Our Blessed Hope". For example: A believer is on his death bed, he is reassured that he will immediately be in the presence of the Lord. I would never say "here it is" or "there it is", because I don't know where it is. But I have the reassurance I will go there, if I die a physical death, or if I am raptured. "Lo Here", "Here it is", means the same thing. Why is the Kingdom of God within us, among us and in our midst? Because Gods Grace reassures and reinforces this into our Faith.
That is not a literal translation though. Neither of those passages say near, which would indicate it requires a translation other than literal.
For instance;
Within you literally would mean inside you
Among you literally would mean surrounds you
in your midst literally would mean in your middle or in your surrounding.
I suppose near could mean close and therefore could mean surround or inside.
So which one is true,.
There are many christians who regard KJV as the correct version. "Within you" is my understanding of it. To persistently search for the "Kindom of Heaven" outside of yourself, or in another person, or in another place, is futile.
Interesting book I have read recently, The Book of Enoch, he is mentioned in Scripture, but much of what he describes in his own rightings coincides with the Bible, and much does not, he goes in depth about the times of Noah, Nephilim, Mt. Hermon, Fallen Angel's, Giant's, tribes such as Anakim and so on, things I find bizzare but frightently interesting.
Never heard of that book. Will seek it out. Sounds interesting.
Curious to know? Do you have a belief system that you are content with?
I experience God and that I am content with.
Beliefs are never absolute in my understanding they change depending on our perceptions. So I do not subscribe to any if that makes sense. I can find common threads through most organized belief systems and see the usefulness in most of them.
So what it comes down to is I respect peoples beliefs.
You seem humble! That's good'. Won't argue with that.
The beginning of the old testament is actually quite similar to the Sumerian Creation Myth of the Enuma Elish. The name of the place was actually E.din in the Sumerian tablets. Very close to Eden, right? They speak about Annunaki "gods" (extra terrestrials) genetically engineering humans as worker slaves. Another tablet also included the story of the flood, except the mans name was Ziusudra instead of Noah. He was warned by one of these blonde-headed giant gods, Enki, against the wishes of the other gods. These tablets were created via cuniform writing and were written well before the Bible. Why the similarities? These are the same stories, with the exception of several gods (again ET's) were changed into just one. So who decides which one is the truth? How can the latter be the truth if it was derived from the first? Who is to say if either are the truth?
It is interesting, the Bible speaks of Cheribum Angels and refer to them as such, Egyptians refer to them as Sphinx, I believe they are one in the same. Different Language, different words, same meanings, I believe.
Order is chaos!
Corinthians 11: 13,14 "For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the Apostles of Christ. And no marvel, for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light."
Matthew 24:36 "But of that day and hour, no one knows, no, not even the angels of heaven, but My Father only."
Matthew 24:23-27: (this is Jesus speaking): "then if anyone says to you, "Look, here is the Christ", or "There", do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and show great signs and wonders so as to deceive, if possible, even the elect. See I have told you beforehand. Therefore, if they say to you, "Look, He is in the desert.", do not go out, or "Look, he is in the inner rooms.", do not believe it. For as the lightning flashes from the East, and flashes to the West, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be."
1 Thess. 5:2 Paul says the "day of the Lord will come just like a thief in the night."
1 Thess 5:1-3
"Now concerning the times and the seasons, brothers, you have no need to have anything written to you. For you yourselves are fully aware that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “There is peace and security,” then sudden destruction will come upon them as labor pains come upon a pregnant woman, and they will not escape."
Matthew 24:6: "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come."
Matthew 24:7-8: "Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains."
Matthew 24:9: "Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me."
Matthew 24:10-11: "At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people."
Matthew 25:13 – “Watch therefore, for you know neither the day nor the hour in which the Son of Man is coming.”
Apparently the bible is being grossly overlooked by this person. The anti-christ must first come... have you seen or talked to him? Because nobody else knows anything about him! I agree the bible states there will be signs of the end, famines, wars, christians will suffer and be put to death, earthquakes, and the anti-christ will be in full power deceiving many as being Jesus...
Signs of the end... but nobody will know the day nor the hour! It says he will come like a thief in the night! All throughout the bible it says this same thing! False prophets will come claiming to know!
You left one very important thing out of your statement.
Jesus said "THIS generation shall not pass till all these things be fulfilled .... but no one knows what day and hour!
There will be many FALSE prophets saying that it won't happen and/OR that it hasn't happened yet.
Everything you typed I agree with, was this in response to something I said?
libby1970 wrote
False prophets will come claiming to know!
============
me
with 1000s of false prophets teaching ???? how will anyone know if they heard A real prophet?
I totally agree Jerami. My point is we were given signs, which have not passed yet. I don't think the anti-christ is going to rise up and claim to be Christ within the next 10 days. Nor has some of the other signs came to pass.
False prophets come and deceive many. Many false prophets came before and claimed they knew when the day was... the times came and passed! July 25th will come and pass as well for the signs have not came.
This person is placing themself above Jesus and the angels in heaven, for the Bible clearly states they don't know.
Coleman: No my post was to the original poster who claims to know when the second coming is. Which is impossible! There are too many signs that the bible clearly gives that hasn't came to pass yet! So this is debunked big time!
It is my humple opinion that Jesus was correct when speaking to the scribes and pharisees (Matthew 23:34 & 35 & 36) that they were going to taste the wrath of God and that all the blood of the marters were going to fall upon THEM. And that Jesus was "going to" to send to them prophets, wise men and scribes and some of them they were going to kill and crucify and some they will scurge in the scynagogue.
And then ... in C. 24 Jesus tells four of his disciples that these things were going to happen to THEM.
And some of you standing here shall not taste of death till they have seen the son of man coming in the clouds.
These things echo in my mind every time I here of a coming 2nd coming, being yet in the future.
I mean this with all the respect in the world to other views.... I'm just asking??
Why do people teach contrary to what Jesus said?
Is it in order to agree with something someone else has said?
I mean this with all due respect for other opinions ...
JUST ASKING
There are so many different translations to that Jerami. In some translations it seems more like he was meaning the actual location instead of the people standing in front of him. The KJV makes that translation seem more like the people in front of him, but other translations seems more like he is meaning that there be some standing here...which can go either way.
My take is this-- but this is my opinion-- I think jesus was meaning that there will be some standing in the same area that will see the son of man coming.
I think I need to go study the original writings on this one!
This is a good one to think about though. It could mean a few things!
There will be many false interpretations and one real one.
There are hundreds of reasons why I believe that Jesus was talking about those which were standing there.
I agree, I think Jesus was being explicit, and because the Church did not see what they interpreted this '2nd Coming' to be, then they reininterpret or ignore what Jesus said, and put this '2nd Coming' off to some future apocalyptic event.
The Jews expected the Messiah to come as a conquering hero to release them from oppression by the Romans. When Jesus came in a manner they did not expect, they missed it. The Church expects the Messiah to come again as a conquering hero to release them from oppression by the Antichrist/United Nations/Barak Obama. I suggest the Church has also missed it.
There is no need for a second coming which itself is a Church interpretation. There is nothing on Earth for Him to do. "It is finished" and the clear up operation was left to the disciples and their successors. Daniel interpreted Nebuchadnezzer's dream of a rock from heaven that would grow into a Kingdom on Earth that would not stop until it was filled. Jesus is that rock and the kingdom was established at the resurection, and as been growing since.
I couldn't agree more!
Everyone speaks of the founding fathers of the church as being the deciples and those gathering together for worship during the first century.
The way I see it, the founding fathers of the Christian heritage as we know it today, can only be traced back to 326 AD. That group of men that Constantine gathered together to establish a universal Christianity through out the Roman Empire. It was these men who established the misinterpretations of scripture which have survived through the centuries.
Disappearinghead, how can you assert that President Obama is the antichrist? He probably won't even get re-elected. So that should set such a foolish notion to rest.
He doesn't believe that. He simply used Obama because a lot of cooky Christians seem to think that he is the Anti-Christ.
Thanks TW. I do very much get the impression that right wing Christian America hates Obama as much as the anti-Christ.
Well we all know what the reason for that hatred is. Or at least we African-Americans know. It's because he is a BLACK man living in THE WHITE HOUSE. Unthinkable and unforgivable. I'd respect the racist right wing more if they'd just say that instead of coming up with all the other petty excuses and justifications they try to use for hating the man.
Well that is pretty sad...but at the same time I have heard many Afican Canadians hating on Obama because he seems more white than anything. I don't know much about american politics though, I thought I would just throw that in.
I am not American but if it is anything like our country. It could be just because he is a politician.
Maybe, just maybe, America is focusing on the man and blaming him for everything, when it's the henchmen and women, and all the other ulterior motives working in the team behind him that you need to be aware of. They can cause the nation so many problems, ongoing down the years.
We get the same thing in Australia. The guy or woman in focus of course has some strong influence in the course of everything, yet those supporting her close in the circle are the ones to be very careful of.
Hitler was only ultimately as good as his team, and many of those were literally rotten.
I feel compelled to throw out there' that as Christians we are living in the last Church Age (Laodicea) and the tale end of it, the Rapture is "imminent", and I am looking forward and up to it!
Coleman, I have not read that book but have heard of Weinland for years, yah one does need a certain degree of discernment to get through that thing. But I see your point, it coincides with what you said concerning the poster. I think Weinland is currently in a court battle or prison, yet some how he still has followers, I wonder what his congregation is thinking "CrazyWorld".
jonnycomelately, I never heard that before, "There are many Christians who regard KJV as the correct version", I would say many Christians prefer KJV because it has been around so long. Anyway like I said, I prefer KJV. I also have NIV ASV ESV, I primarily prefer KJV Study Bible. The Kindom of Heaven is something I definitely look forward to. Yes I certainly do love myself Jonny! So much so that I enjoy meditating on the Word, Praying for myself, Family, Friends, acquaintances, my fellow Marines, my Dog......you...LoL, but actually I have! and not in that order necessarily, that probably will perturbe you, but it's for your own good, wether you don't presently realize it. Yes Sir, gotta take care of #1 physically, mentally, spiritually. But of course don't think I stand in front of a mirror and give myself self affirmations every day, in fact I dont give any. You really want to know what it took for me to accept Christ, it first started with Surrendering, you may find this to be a sign of weakness! But I will tell you from experience it takes strength, humility and a Fear, Reverance and Respect I have for my Creator.
Coleman, you really have missed the true, deep, ageless message of that man Jesus. He was constantly advising individuals to "look in the mirror" at themselves. It's an INNER mirror. It's not there on the outside of you. It's not there for you to sit and preen yourself, and indulge in congratulatory smugness.
That mirror is only there to reflect the truth to you, your self, without any trappings of self denial or dishonesty. That truth is for you alone. No one else --- me, your friends, your colleagues --- has anything to do with your truth. It is for you alone to confront. My looking at My truth in My mirror is likewise, my business, none of yours.
All of your ranting about other people and going outside of yourself and trying to find an easy answer in "Jesus Saves," etc., is ultimately going to get you no where. It has blinded you to reality and set all your beliefs in concrete.
I guess with you, all of Jesus' parables and admonitions have fallen on stoney ground.
IMHO
Well, now Jonny, that is a very astute comment. I may just have to revise my opinion of you. I just made a few comments in another forum about that danged mirror.
Sounds like your doing most of the ranting, could it be because your head is filled with stone, you don't seem to get it because your fixated on reflections of yourself. Your using words that describe your own idiosyncrasies. I will pray for you as well.
Jonny. With that being said if you Truly want to know what I believe to be Fact, Study Scripture, everything in it I believe. If you don't know God and his Son but you would like to, before you hit the rack at night "Pray", if you don't know how to Pray, open the Bible and look for verses on prayer. If you want nothing to do with God, then that is your choice. And I will pray for you no matter how futile you seem to think that is or what I say.
Now that's an interesting statement... I don't expect a reply to my next question but I'll ask it anyway...
Suppose someone said that they were going to sacrifice a goat to the great dark one in hopes that you would be swayed to serve him how would you feel about that? But sure hoping and asking an all-powerful being to make someone else do something against their will is morally sound.
That's one of the things I respect about many branches of the Wicca religion... they ASK before they say a prayer or do a ritual involving someone else.
Melissa, take for example this, your the goat that has been separated from the Sheep, your atop the barbecue and Jonny is stoking the fire with an insatiable appetite for the empty, and the Druid King is about to fully initiate your sacrifice. Now your lying there giving praise to your Witch Elders and the heat is about to go up! and Jonny is getting "hungry", and then I happen to skip by whistling, I stop and immediately process the situation your in; its looking dire and the foam is dripping down Jonny's face, what do I do? I Pray to God! to have Mercy on you, and then all of a sudden' you role off the barbecue to safety, "Jonny reacts", trips into his own flames and the Druid King thrusts back to avoid the upsurge of Jonny falling in, and inadvertently flys off the mountain. So the moral of the story, don't think for one moment I am going to ask your permission to Pray for your safety and well being just because you have a Skewered view of Christians, "but hey", it beats being Char Broiled! Ask yourself this Melissa, where does morality come from, who instilled it into us? When it comes right down to the nitty gritty, it's not about us! it's about God and what he want for us, you, Jonny and the druid and everyone for that matter!
Wow...
On a completely unrelated note...I really should get to work on my hub about the benefits of Haldol.
And posting under a new account doesn't really fool anyone. There are people on these boards who really do care about you and just want you to get the help you need.
"And posting under a new account.... ."
Would you call this "lying for Jesus?"
Jesus doesn't need people to lie for him lol
This thread has gotten ridiculous Didn't we all learn a long time ago the source of this belief? Why are there still people berating each other here? Doesn't this kind of encourage a possible delusion? I know many Christians are ready to be "persecuted" and I think that all these posts are just adding to OPs expected "persecution", it isn't really helping anybody, and simply strengthening a possible and an unfortunate delusion.
I knew a Luciferian once (They are also known as satanists, but don't regard themselves as such.) and he had cancer. We talked for a bit because I wasn't afraid of him. When I was way into my 'christian' walk, I believed wholeheartedly in prayer. And I wasn't afraid of the 'devil'. (I think now that I am an atheist, I fear the devil even less, because it doesn't exist.)
Anyway, I told him...I would pray for him. You know what his response was?
PLEASE!! Do it! Pray for me! I need all the help I can get....oh and I'll pray for you too.
My goodness I must have laughed so hard at that. At first I was startled, I became even a little intimidated. I thought, wow isn't he going to get feisty? get all demonic? crazy?
Nah, he was cool. A few months later, he died.
Oh well. And the moral of the story is....please remember to get your check ups regularly. Whether praying to God or to Satan...it really doesn't matter. If you wait and depend solely on praying and not taking care of your body...a prayer is all you will have and it won't do any good except keep your hope alive to keep your chin up while you face a certain death.
You know I was racking my brain over your Username for quite some time, and then I remember where I had heard it before, Johnny Come Lately was a film starring James Cagney......anyway off point. Iam OUT------------
I bide my time patiently. I cannot wait for hellfires...or zombies...or aliens. Whatever it was.
I'm trying to sell some stuff for food money, I hope he drops by.
Oh yes! Might have to rely on jonny to let you all know!
I am in the process of moving. 22nd is the final day for moving all the big stuff and ourselves. Internet company says transfer service takes up to 9 days and that was 4 days ago. So I may not be connected. So if I am in heaven or hell I could not tell you in time! :lol
Okay jonny?
RAPTURE: To be caught up in the sky at the command of the Holy Spirit. Does it mention feet leaving the earth? Could make a big difference. Happened 32 years ago. Damn train must be running late!
...apparently has mosaic issues. Get it, Mosaic. LOL.
All that is missing in that pic is the bottle of spirit/s.
Well thereis only a half hour left and so far, no reports of rapture.
Seeing that I have not received a reply ad of yet, I am going to assume that you have been caught up in the rapture. Or could it be that you now realize what a fool you've made of yourself and are ashamed of facing us now? Whatever the case, you will not be missed I assure you.
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