Are Christians the biggest threat to Christianity in America?

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   lizzieBooposted 11 years ago

   Is Protestant America's fixation with Biblical accuracy more damaging to Christianity than violence, drugs and pornography?

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      MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I'm gonna go with the whole "The problem with Christianity is that it is full of Christians" theory.
      
      Unlike Cags I disagree that ANY philosophy or religion is inherently good or evil.  It is simply a belief.  It is the actions of the believer that are good or evil.  Believing that a religion can make someone do anything is a complete cop out and totally removes the concept of personal responsibility.

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         lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yes I agree with you up to a point. When I use America as an example it is because American preachers (a stereotype perhaps) are notorious the world over for quoting the Bible as fact. This method persuasion invariably leads to an argument as to whether or not this or that was really said or done, leaving the actual practice of Christianity til last. Now, while I think a good metaphysical debate is good brain exercise, a book being true or not is not metaphysics or philosophy but a sure way to make a person look small minded. That's what I mean when I ask, is the fixation with the Book most damaging.

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   Cagsilposted 11 years ago

   To answer your title- No. They are the second biggest threat.
   
   Christianity in and of itself is it's own biggest threat.

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      lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      In what way?

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         Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It teaches people to be dishonest with themselves about themselves and the world around them. It teaches "do as I say, not as I do", which in turn turns people into bigots, narrow-minded, closed-minded individuals.
         
         Do as I say, not as I do is not a "lead by example" mentality. Plain and simple.

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            lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            That's not what Christianity teaches. To be a Christian is to live like Christ as far as possible.

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               lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You couldn't get a more "do as I do" religion.

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               Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               And that isn't possible because the bible doesn't teach Jesus' true teachings. It never has.

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                  lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Or perhaps people just choose to ignore the inconvenient teachings of Christ. Like I say, Bible fixation is what is truly damaging. You can tear out pages of books or choose to ignore the meanings of words, but actions cannot be rewritten

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                     Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You know something, I'm going to kinda enjoy this.
                     
                     Okay, let's start off- Christianity began when there were more mystics(people of pure dishonesty) than rational thinkers. That means, there were more dishonest people than honest people. Kinda like today. See how your religion hasn't changed anything?
                     
                     Secondly, let's continue on with what you believe as a G/god- Omnipresent, Omniscient, Omnipotent- Logical fallacy because all 3 cannot exist in one place without causing some sort of paradox.
                     
                     Thirdly, ultimately deep down inside of you, you cannot know 100% that the G/god you believe in is real and doing so is dishonest. There is always doubt within a person, which is how hope grows. Thus, you cannot be 100% sure beyond all doubt. If you're willing to claim 100% certainty, then it is merely ego which drives the claim and nothing more. Ego isn't honesty.
                     
                     Fourth, the book you read was translated by humans who were flawed, so mistakes are going to happen and the fact that no religious person is going to accept that the words in the bible(or book they read) were infallible is beyond all comprehension. It's based on faith(religious) and this faith is a false ego deception of self, which is perpetuated by religions of the world.
                     
                     Fifth, the highest authority is self. You are the only one who can make choices and enforce those choices with actions. You can control how honest you are and when you choose to be honest. You also have the ability to learn which of your actions are ego driven and which ones are conscience driven, but that only comes with an awareness increase.
                     
                     Well, hopefully this will put an end on whether or not Christians are the biggest threat or Christianity is itself.
                     
                     As I said- Christianity is it's own biggest threat. The Christians who follow it, are more dangerous than those who don't. Why? Because they don't realize that they are not being honest with themselves about themselves and the world around them.

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                        lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        Ok, to your first point: Aristotle? Plato? Aquinas?
                        Point 2: I disagree
                        Point 3: Faith is not the same as fact. If you can prove something as fact then it is no longer a matter for faith. Yes, those who say the Bible is a matter of fact are not simply dishonest but also confused.
                        Point 4: Christianity was practiced before the Book could be read. That's a fact.
                        Point 5: Our biggest challenge is to refuse to indulge our ego whilst listening to our conscience.
                        I think, in short, that the word you are looking for is...America.

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                           Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Are you looking for classification of these individuals? If so, I can only speak to 2 of them and that would be Aristotle- a logic thinker and Plato- a mystic thinker.
                           You can disagree all you like. It doesn't negate the fact is a fact. It's improbable, not possible for all 3 to exist in one place.
                           Actually it does. It takes faith in yourself to perceive what you're perceiving. If your perception is skewed more often than not, then your perception is likely to be skewed in understanding what you see to begin with.
                           Agreed.
                           Yes Jesus existed before the book was created. The "religion" of Christianity was man-made and has nothing to do with Jesus' teachings, as I said.
                           Actually it's one's own awareness. You must recognize your ego before you can realize it is in your way of hearing your conscience.
                           America? Where the willful ignorance are told they are in control, while being deceived by those select few powerful and wealthy carve up land, damage peoples' life and for what? More power, more wealth and more control of others.
                           
                           Exactly what religion preaches. You are to be subservient a higher authority, but fail to realize the highest authority is self.

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                              lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              On your second point, you surely don't know for a fact that God doesn't exist in three dimensions, therefore it must be your faith against mine.
                              As to my point about America, it is the land of paradox. It makes the biggest noise for Christianity and yet is also the land of excess: the land of over-eating, the land of pornography, the land which has "In God we Trust" on its bank notes but also which created the electric chair. America is known the world over as a Christian country; one which celebrates God's natural earth whilst also defacing the world around it from fast food to plastic surgery.

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                                 Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Do you feel better now?
                                 
                                 I love a holier than thou rant. Especially from a brit.

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                                    lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    It isn't meant to be nasty. Britain is not the biggest influence in the world and America is at war with itself.

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                                       Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Exactly what  civil war are we embroiled in? Religion? You obviously don't understand Americans. We're not at war, we are exercising our rights to free speech.

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                                       lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Representing opposing positions. Why are so many American soldiers committing suicide? Why do teenagers keep going nuts and killing their classmates? Can anyone fight for both corners at once?

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                                          Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                          These questions have nothing to do with religion. Why bring them up?

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                                       lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       My original point was more about America than religion.

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                                 Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Actually, I don't need to prove a fact of a G/god existing or not existing. You're the one who has believe in a G/god. To me, there's no rational need for it.
                                 In one way, yes.
                                 
                                 

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                                    lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    I didn't choose to believe. I just do.

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                                       Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Now that's funny.

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   Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

   Cag...you should look up the definition of mystic. If a 'Force' or 'entity' appears in front of your face in such a way as to erase all doubt the you might be hallucinating...do you then stand there and deny that it's there? That is what happened to me.

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      Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hey Druid, go find some trees. I don't need to look up the definition. All mystics are tied to mysticism. If you don't like it, too bad.
      Interesting. I'm glad for you. I'm sure you'll be just like most people, attribute it to something else, just to make yourself feel comfortable.

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   Emile Rposted 11 years ago

   Since I think all sects present unique problems that push people away, I wouldn't agree with your statement. Cagsil is right. Christianity, itself, is the biggest threat to Christianity. You can't pin it on the Protestants.

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      lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      But the question is, is the focus on text the most harmful to Christianity as a whole?

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         MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         No.  The need to force nonbelievers into the faith either by conversion or adherence to perceived biblical law is the most harmful aspect.

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            lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Really? Jews and Christians have survived a surprisingly long time with that considered. I actually think that people are turned off when too little is asked of them....like today.

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               MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               1.  A large number of Americans are not Christian.
               2.  There are a lot of Christian beliefs that are not shared by non-Christians.
               3.  People resent attempts at conversion.
               4.  People also resent being forced to abide by the beliefs of another religion.
               5.  The more that people try to throw off the "authority" of the Christian church the more the Christians scream about "losing power"
               6.  The more that the Christians scream the more people hate them... Including other more moderate Christians.
               7.  People don't like being part of a demographic that both embarrasses them and makes them hated by others.
               8.  Moderate Christians leave the faith to avoid guilt by association.  There is also a certain degree of "If this is what I have to believe and have to act like to be a Christian then I'd rather not be one."
               9.  More Christians become non-Christians.
               10. Wash Lather Repeat.

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         Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think so. I do think literalists go overboard, but you've admitted previously that Catholics don't read the Bible. You trust in tradition. It's proven do be just as flawed.
         
         I don't think Christ envisioned what you guys have become. And now, look at this thread. It is cannibalistic.  You guys attempt to eat your own. It's crazy.
         
         Organized Christianity is its own worst enemy because all of your infighting is watched and we understand what that fighting means apparently better than you guys do.

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            lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So you think it's better to remain separate than have a discussion about it?

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               Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I don't understand why you guys are separate. From a purely 'Christian' view, there is absolutely no scriptural basis. You guys appear to like to find points to balance on; hoping it is perceived as a spiritual pedestal.

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                  lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  My brother is getting married this year but he's having problems because his fiance's father is a born-again Christian and refuses to recognise my brother's legitimacy as a Christian since he is Catholic. We regard all Christian baptism as legitimate. "Scriptural basis" is precisely the problem in this case.

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                     Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     I had to go to Catholic classes and swear I'd raise a godchild Catholic. You are all pretty much the same.

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                        lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I've never heard of anything like that before. I've never been forced to swear to anything except to be faithful to my husband, which I don't resent. Who forced you to do that is the real question?
                        Still, lets just say that we're all the same and the only real wisdom is in skepticism.

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            MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Would you rather all Christians be united in beliefs?  *shudders*  And no that's not sarcasm.  If we all fell together it would likely be under the sway of the loudest and most heavy handed.  I do not want to live my life as a baptist...
            
            *shudders again*

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               Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               True. That's a problem. People are prone to follow others. I don't think you are supposed to be united in one belief. I think you are supposed to be bound by love and acceptance; but follow your own heart. Unfortunately, few people possess courage of conviction or faith in themselves and  they believe there is spiritual safety in numbers.

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               lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               All sects have their own wonderful qualities

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   OldSkoolFoolposted 11 years ago

   Absolutely, the bottom line is that they are pushy and instill fear and ridicule. That's not something that Christ wanted!

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   Paul Wingertposted 11 years ago

   It's pretty sad when atheists and agnostics know more about the Bible and Christianity than all the denominations combined. That’s probably why they became non-believers. An atheist or agnostic will question something that doesn’t make sense rather to accept whatever is being told to them. “God made it” isn’t a logical or credible answer. For starters, the existence of a hell - a place you will go if you don't believe in Biblical nonsense or accept Jesus as your savior. Hell is a man made concept designed to keep believers in line.

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      lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Keep them in line for what? It seems to me that you can keep people in line much better by feeding them fast food and pornography. Why take the difficult route?

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         Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         It was believed at the time that if humans were not made to answer to a higher authority/power, then chaos would ensue. It's "why" religion was created.
         Actually, only a percentage would be affected and effected by those particular aspects, if they are honest with themselves to start off. But, then again, if most people were more honest than they are now, then the world might just be a better place in the future.
         The difficult route is a route where you don't start with your self. The easy route is to let ego dominate, while not caring about the damage it does, so you can led a selfish life.

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            lizzieBooposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            So "humans" decided to dupe other humans about there being a god in order to enslave them? How clever of them. How stupid of the ones who didn't think of it first.
            All around me I see slaves. None of them have a religion. Unless you call consumerism a religion?

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               Cagsilposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               If you stop to think about it, look at how much "religion" has dictated over the centuries it's been in place. Not to mention, at the time of Jesus walking the planet there were more people enslaved in bondage and not allowed to live free. This is a proven fact.
               Thinking would help.
               I'm sure you do.
               
               You know, I swear, talking to you sometimes is just ridiculous. At times you're with it and then you're completely out in left field somewhere. IF you have meds? Please take them.

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                  kessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Is this indicative of how you die for a person?
                  Good thing she was literrally drowning.
                  The valdity of the question makes such a response from you neccessary.

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