Atheism v. Theism

1. 57

   nonto21posted 11 years ago

   Atheism relies on books and books and books of supporting evidences, that confirm an experience and or subject of interest. Each book or reference is based on a field of study, concerning a physical reality.
   
   Theism relies on a series of oratory stories and up until forms of writing were devised, were nothing more than campfire stories. They base their beliefs on what they are told, rather than what they can readily experience.
   
   One is based on unequicable truths, based on facts observed and information gathered from reasonably accessible sources.
   
   The other is based on the word of equally confused patrons, lead by people that are either just as confused or are deliberately decieving others.

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I was wondering are you Atheist?

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         nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I can waver occasionaly, though for the most part yes. I can't see anything beyond what I can readily experience, as being factual or legitimate.

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            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            What do you think about the theory that Spirituality is about the 99% unknowns?
            
            If that is true than Atheist are not any closer to the ultimate truths in life than Religious people are. Mainly we are living in the dark stumbling over things to get to the light. Is any one right group, good for all ?

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               nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Atheists never claim to be on top of the knowledge game, we just see what we can readily demonstrate. You can't do that with theism.

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      autumn18posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I feel like atheism is a bit more simple. I don't see it as relying on anything like books and evidence. It's simply a person that doesn't have a believe in God.

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         nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I can't see God but I can see the result of science. If it can't be experienced logically, it's scrapped as useless and/or redundant information. To me, theism is obsolete.

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   3. 64

      Claire Evansposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Theists don't only base their beliefs on what they are told.  They can experience it, too. 
      
      And let me tell you that what is sometimes called fact can actually be a lie.

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         nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I'm well aware of that. That's why science, isn't an exact science. But what we think we know, we're fairly certain of.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Why cannot a material fact be spiritual?

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      nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Can your spirit invent a better cell phone? Can a computer come from praying? Is there any way a spirit can be demonstrated? If a spirit exists, how can it be measured?

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Many atheist are lame in their imagination. When we study many of the great atheist men in throughout  history, there isn't that much.
         
         When an atheist over focus on their five sense or depends too much on the physical part which is only one fifth of the equation in life and science is only one branch in the tree of life, the balance can be dis-empowering
         
         Yet I too, think religion is on the other extreme side of the poles too

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Theoretically the spirit can be measured by what I invent, where the source of that invention, I am not sure is me, or some form of inspiration as not the physical me.

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      nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Necessity is the mother of invention. There is no necessity a spirit could fill. If you are internally lost or empty, blame whoever told you you needed things or a God for that matter.
      
      When I left theism, I found that I was quite free of such reservations. If I relied on God to fix my phone, I'd never be able to call anyone. Then, it would be up to me to invent a form of communication. No spirit needed.

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Something from my hub
         
         Few people have the imagination for reality and logic and reason can die off quickly. Your knowledge has limits but your imagination dose not. Reason respects differences, and imagination has a perceptible likeness of things. It’s an act not of reason but an intuition, Imagination is the eye of the soul and the voice of the daring.
         
         If there is anything Godlike about God it is that. When he dares to go beyond his wildest dreams, he can imagine everything.
         
         As Religion shrinks it will be replace more so by the spiritual age, if atheist do not seek the spiritual unknowns, how they grow beyond or get along with most people?

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         Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I don't this explains fried butter, louboutin shoes or the clap on clap off light.

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            nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            If I needed light and had none, I'd rub 2 sticks together. This was the invention of necessity, the need for heat and light.

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               Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               What does that have to do with the examples I gave?

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                  nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I can prove that theism has no merit as a viable invention. I can't rub 2 sticks together and poof there's God. No! I have to profess there's a God. What more do I need to say.

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                     Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Considering the fact that what you just said is nonsensical; I'd say you probably need to say more.

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                        nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        If I can't provide proof of God's existence, then it doesn't exist.

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                           Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           If you hold a cup of seawater, does that prove there are no whales in the ocean?
                           
                           Give up your need for belief. I'm sure it is very frustrating, wanting to know things for fact. But making claims you can't support with fact is as lame as theism. You don't know any more than they do. Or, than I do.

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                              nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              I didn't claim to know anything.
                              
                              I just want proof that I'm wrong.

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                                 nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 To add;
                                 
                                 If you can't provide proof of something you can't prove the existence of, you become just as invalid as those you try to invalidate.

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                                 Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 Do you want proof that you are wrong? Or acceptance that you are right. They aren't the same, you know.

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                                    Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    Emile
                                    
                                    Great men in history
                                    
                                    Imagination will often carry us to worlds that never were. But without it we go nowhere." Carl Sagan
                                    
                                    Live out of your imagination, not your history."Stephen Covey
                                    
                                    The man who has no imagination has no wings."Muhammad Ali
                                    
                                    Everything you can imagine is real. Pablo Picasso
                                    
                                    Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you everywhere. (Albert Einstein
                                    
                                    From his neck down a man is worth mimum wage, from his  neck up  your worth as much as you can imagine. .Thomasedison.
                                    
                                    I can't imagine 3% Atheist population of the world ever will or did match the 85% religions population and their war record

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                                       Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Great quotes. However, again, I think you overstate the war thing. We have plenty of documentation of secular history. It's a bloody as the history (?) of the Bible.
                                       
                                       I agree that religion is a huge problem. That needs to be corrected. But, war happens no matter what rallying cry is taught to the masses. Look at the American civil war. Slavery was not the issue for the soldiers of the south. It was the rallying cry used to drum up support in the North. It is what we remember, because the victors wanted it that way.
                                       
                                       If you can't stare a problem in the face and accept the underlying causes you will be, at best, nothing more than the little dutch boy. Poking your finger in a hole, without taking into account the reasons the dyke is failing.

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                                    nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    I don't care if I'm right. I want someone to give me proof that I'm absolutely wrong.
                                    
                                    Is that too much to ask?
                                    
                                    Is it too much to ask, that theists stop speaking of concept as fact?
                                    
                                    I can't say their wrong either. I just want an honest answer, no genuflecting or pontification, prosthelitizing and or biblical scripture. I want people to say it in their own words, which is why I tried to avoid a copy and paste approach.

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                                       Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       Some things are right and some things are wrong, right?
                                       Whose rights are right and whose rights are wrong?
                                       
                                       Remember-two wrongs don’t make a right!
                                       By degrees of truth I choose the middle ground of whats is assumed what is absolutely right or wrong between the extremes of monotheism Religion and Atheists
                                       
                                       But seriously, right the right wrongs to the left of the right right’s right, and everything will be alright. I agree that people are right 95% of the time yet that 5% wrong can be a bitch some times

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      Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Have some pride. Take credit when it is do and blame when it is due. I always find it interesting when theists that God for something well done and then blame the devil when mistakes are made.
      
      Give credit to you mind for your achievements. Unlike sleep doctors can put one in total unconsciousness. Meaning nothing spiritual is in the brain. When the brain is shut off so is consciousness, so when we die (brain shut off) we loose consciousness. I don't like it any more than you, but I don't have to like the truth. Do you?

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         When the spiritual is the 99% unknown for  us all, as the world and Universe is 99% unknown for all of us. Their is only perspective of the degrees of truth , to claim you have the ultimate truth and right way would claiming to be all, much like Religion dose all over again, as one an only way to God.
         
         I really get tired of talking about religion like on the Atheist forum as the topic are 2/3 about Religion.  It's like a broken record all over again, where spiritual things and discovery manifest into our ego selves which are something anew, not like ancient spirituality of quilt and regrets.

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            Rad Manposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            There are no spirits, no ghosts or goblins. These things are simply made up by humans to help us through life.
            
            Why not start a forum on something you would like to discuss?

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               Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I must slow down form these Religious forum, feeling  like I'm shrinking, not growing or expanding.

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4. 61

   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   "Nobody calling on the phone
   Except for the pope maybe in Rome"
   Invention is the mother of necessity.
   Invent a phone now you need it. 
   My phone is what I say it it.

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      Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah, I can be godlike too, just shut the cell phone off , if the pope threatens me with a text, that he is the light and the way.

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         nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Death is very scary.
         
         No one wishes to be left behind or to be forgotten.
         To lack a title.
         To leave behind one's beloved.
         To be without identity.
         To die is to leave all that behind.
         
         If I can invent a form of comfort for myself, I will probably invent an imaginary scenario where no such suffering exists.
         Wishful thinking.

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            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Death and fear is likely the greatest draw for the churches membership. Being fearless, my energy is not wasted on the dying process, yet mainly on spiritual part of the process, not over focus lopsidedness way of beliefs

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            Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Imagination has not ever been a tool for suffering for me, mainly for pleasure , invention and discovery. Yet, the kind of Imagination Christian use to make up stuff on how they fit all those world animal on one Ark, is only laughable at best

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Personally I am not much concerned about that future. It is what it is. I invent for the joy of the now. If my invention is preconceived, what fun is that.

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      nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      All things known and thought are prconcieved. It's only the things that are absolutely new to us, that are not.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Preconceived is the machine of which we all must rely. Can it be complex enough that it precludes all randomness, and which would preclude non-mechanical intelligence.

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      nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      If I reject one for the other, then I have preconcieved notions. If I believe something is one way and not the other, then I have preconcieved notions. If I have an answer. If I believe something. If there is a word for it.

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         Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Most of my learning is by pictures in my mind first, than words follow

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            nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            But the notion of labels is there? The fact that you have a word for the thought, means that the notion was preconcieved. To concieve, means to make or create. Only when the notion or thing is new, there can be no preconception.

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               Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               As long as it's natural and harmless to explore the unknowns, it is serious fun in my books.
               
               The bible pretends to be an instruction book to love god and all spiritual unknowns, which is clear that is not the true. They are just ignoring millions of other good books and experiences for their own over ego selfish group.

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                  nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  To ignore all the proof and facts, while having none, is as ignorant as it can get.

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                     Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Religion dose have much of human history experience to offer.
                     I it's mainly badly translated and really out of balance with science or some form of new or different way of thinking

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                        nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        They may have experiences, none of which can be proven.

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                           Castlepalomaposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           none of which can be proven.
                           
                           Oh come on. I am not a fan of these religious messes too. Yet, give religions some credit for some of their Historical facts back as far 5000 years ago.
                           
                           How much can we take from Atheist history of ancient times?

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                              nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Not much, since atheism is relatively new, as opposed to theism. I'd say atheism has been around as long as Sidhartha Gautama, which predates Jesus by at least 300 years but, it's not been around as long as theism, for sure.
                              
                              Theism almost certainly predates religion by 5-6,000 years or so, because it was mainly orally conveyed before the advent of the written word.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   There are know.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Madness is belief in what is not true. If religion (faith) did not have the authority it does, it could only be defined as madness.

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      nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Why does it have authority over experience? How is something no one can see, be validated as authority?

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   Sophia Angeliqueposted 11 years ago

   Wow. There are so many illogical replies and responses in this. My head reals.

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      nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

      That's what I was vying for, a logical response. Though I got what I expected, irrational and illogical answers.

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    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    I call it external authority. The expression is "I have been told, but I don't know", as the way we learn vicariously without having to have been there.
    Einstein is an authority because he understands the math and you don't. I get to take what is yours because my God is better than yours, and by the
    same token, my science is better than your science.
    Convincement called con precludes proof.

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       nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       But one irrational answer doesn't support another, it just validates how uninformed theists really are. There can be no authority without proof. Einstein provided proof for his physical theory, so now the burden of proof falls on the theist.

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          Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Are you so desperate to believe in God, that you demand proof; or so desperate to validate your own belief that you need to belittle the beliefs of others?
          
          Since you can't prove either way, why worry about it?

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          knolyourselfposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Bush and the boys attacked Iraq with no proof only authority.

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             nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

             That doesn't prove there's a God. It only proves that politicians are jerks.

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    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    It proves how the human condition of the world works.

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       nonto21posted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Selfishness and self promotoion, are the corner stones of a damaged psyche. To compare the world to a few political jerks, is really missing the point dude.

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    Druid Dudeposted 11 years ago

    Personally, I asked for no proof, and got it dumped in my lap. I don't follow the religion of my upbringing...you could say I went native...but that isn't quite the truth either. I don't believe in God...I know something is out there which, at this point fits the bill...that is all I need to know.

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    nonto21posted 11 years ago

    It's actually funny, that christians will believe the word of other christians but not the word of someone that has doccumented, viable proof.

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       Emile Rposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       We are all giddy with excitement. Please provide your proof.

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