Are You An Individual Or A Follower?

1. 60

   marinealways24posted 14 years ago

   Which one would you classify as and why do you think so?

   replyreport
   1. 71

      TrinaLynneposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I am definitely an individual. I march to the beat of my own drummer, even if he's off beat sometimes. I tend to take my own advice even if I ask others' opinions. I never was a follower because I was never fond of crowds....lol.

      replyreport
   2. 56

      andromidaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

        I think individuality can be maintained while being a follower of
        any religion or ideology.But your individualism may encounter
        clash with the the  fanatic or non  scientific ideology of your
        religion or what you are following.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         What are your thoughts when you have different belief from the teachings of your religion?

         replyreport
         1. 56

            andromidaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Use my own logic and filter my belief system accordingly.But its mainly with the rituals of the religions;since the main idea of every religion is basically the same so there is very little or no conflict with the main belief system.

            replyreport
   3. 61

      mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Individual at the same time a follower as many have preached on god before me. The prophets are my idols and they have done such a superb job in spreading god knowledge and I want to  match them.

      replyreport
   4. 68

      anjalichughposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Individual, of course.  I prefer to 'follow' my own instincts as I believe that instincts remains untainted and, therefore, dependable if we dedicate all our actions to our creator. Complicated ?

      replyreport
      1. 60

         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe that is the ultimate point, maybe if we are leading ourselves, maybe that is dedicating to our creator stating every individual has an individual mind.

         replyreport
   5. 59

      Davinagirl3posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I am definitely an individual.  I am uncomfortable around a lot of people who are too much the same.  I don't understand cliques.

      replyreport
      1. 60

         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You are very smart. It will be scary to see how smart you will be when you truly recognize how smart you already are.

         replyreport
   6. 0

      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      individual.
      
      definitely.

      replyreport
2. 74

   spiderpamposted 14 years ago

   Indiviual, cause I'm the first to answer. and I refuse to go with way of the world. I'll stand up for my beliefs no matter how unpopular they seem to the masses! I'm ME!

   replyreport
3. 85

   Everyday Miraclesposted 14 years ago

   For me I think that it really depends on the situation. I have made a lot of unusual decisions and have pointed my husband in the direction of those decisions but have ultimately followed him.
   
   An example is that I don't wish to have any sons we may have in the future circumcized, but he has made the decision to do so, therefore we will. It's one of the few areas where we disagree, and he would give in if he didn't feel just as convicted as I do!
   
   I am not the type of person who joins in with a crowd though. I am always asking "why?"

   replyreport
4. 72

   Maddie Ruudposted 14 years ago

   I don't see them as mutually exclusive.  I sometimes chose to follow, and sometimes not, based on my individual beliefs.

   replyreport
   1. 56

      andromidaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I also think so.

      replyreport
   2. 62

      Daniel Carterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ditto.
      But for the most part, I have an individual twist even when I "follow.
      Ya follow?
      LOL

      replyreport
5. 67

   Triplet Momposted 14 years ago

   I think that you can be both.  I mean if you only follow that is a different matter. But I am very much an individual and being that I know my strong and weak points.  So when met with my strengths I will tend to lead but if there is something that I am not as strong in I might have to follow to learn so that I can lead the next time. I however do not follow blindly.  So I feel that I am always an individual but at times I follow.

   replyreport
6. 65

   Hawkesdreamposted 14 years ago

   HAHA I follow my desires and lead by example.

   replyreport
7. 60

   marinealways24posted 14 years ago

   Hello Everyone, Thanks for the answers. I am not looking for a "right" answer. I just want to hear everyones perspective.

   replyreport
8. 61

   jennshon4posted 14 years ago

   For the most part I am an individual because I like what I like (and vice versa) and do not let others influence me by telling me what I should like/do.  But there are those times when something is popular and I enjoy jumping on that wagon with everyone else.  Good examples of that would be joining networking sites like Facebook or twitter.

   replyreport
9. 61

   lxxyposted 14 years ago

   Quite an interesting concept..
   ...I consider myself a double agent of individuality.

   replyreport
10. 0

    Whikatposted 14 years ago

    I Am An Individual! (who just followed lxxy over to this post.) :-)

    replyreport
11. 59

    gspot911posted 14 years ago

    Im an individual! I want to make my own way. But i will be a follower sometimes in the bedroom. lol

    replyreport
12. 58

    Negativoposted 14 years ago

    Im a individual because i believe only myself.

    replyreport
13. 80

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    I am an individual, never been a follower. I learn from others, but try to maintain my own counsel.

    replyreport
14. 61

    My Inner Jewposted 14 years ago

    If someone likes to follow their shadow, does that make them an individual or a follower???

    replyreport
15. 74

    Moonchild60posted 14 years ago

    I was always shy and fearful, but still wouldn't follow the crowd.  I would only go along with those I thought had good ideas and leave behind those who bored me.  In the end I became too different to follow.  Who would I follow and why?  I needed to follow my own song. But weather or not there are those who wish to follow me, I cannot say.I warn them however, they could end up in another state, the state of disorder and chaos and as we know out of chaos comes great things.

    replyreport
16. 51

    goalfor25posted 14 years ago

    i think mainly depend on environment and personality

    replyreport
17. 51

    goalfor25posted 14 years ago

    i think mainly depend on environment and personality

    replyreport
18. 60

    tksenseiposted 14 years ago

    It's a false choice. There is no reason a 'follower' is not still an individual. ALL of us are followers in some ways and in some times. It doesn't necessarily make one any the less an individual.

    replyreport
    1. 60

       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Not true in my belief. If a kid see's his friends beating up an innocent homeless man, the kid has the choice to "follow" his friends in the beating or "individualize" and walk away. You think if the kid "followed" in the beating, he would be a true individual? If so, mine and your logic does not agree.

       replyreport
       1. 60

          onthewritesideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          marine, in that example, one could also argue that he walked away because he was following the rules of morality he was raised with.

          replyreport
          1. 60

             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Walking away would be his "individual" choice rather than "following" the actions of his friends.

             replyreport
             1. 60

                marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                He also has choice to go against teachings of morality due to the influence of his friends. An "individual" free will.

                replyreport
             2. 60

                tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                As has been said, he could be "following" the instructions he was given by parents, teachers, society, about what to do in such circumstances.

                replyreport
                1. 60

                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   True. I see you didn't respond to the Marine debate. So the point is that it's good to follow to an "extent", as long as you are following positive influences. Then again, everyone has a different view of logic and positive influences.

                   replyreport
                   1. 85

                      Aya Katzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      replyreport
                      1. 60

                         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Is the question still can a marine be an individual? I refuse to debate this anymore with anyone that was not in the marines that thinks they know what freedoms are sacrificed. A lot of marines do not even know what individual freedoms are being sacrificed while they are in. If a marine does not sacrifice his individuality, he is not a marine.

                         replyreport
                         1. 60

                            tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            AGAIN, that is not what several former Marines have just recently told me. Who am I to believe?

                            replyreport
                            1. 60

                               marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               Believe as you wish. I am just saying that you must sacrifice individuality to be a marine. That is part of the sacrifice, sacrifice of individual freedom. I never got a chance to debate when superiors busted in our rooms at 5:00 in the morning searching our rooms throwing our items in the floor. Is this democracy? I don't remember having a choice of my room being searched. This was 3 years after boot camp.

                               replyreport
19. 60

    tksenseiposted 14 years ago

    Perhaps you miss my point. When you were in the Marines you followed orders, right? Did you cease to be an individual? My friends who are former Marines would disagree (I just asked to be sure).
    
    
    There is no human being who is not a follower at times. Does that mean there are no individuals?

    replyreport
    1. 60

       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, your individuality must cease to be a true marine. There is no democracy in the marines. If you are given an order, you do not debate your "individual" opinion. I believe a follower must follow to before understanding individualism. In saying this, I believe some follow never individualizing.

       replyreport
       1. 60

          tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well, I know a few Marines who disagree with you. In fact, I've just now been told that a Marine who cannot think for himself cannot adapt to circumstances and is effectivley useless. Maybe you were in a different Marines. I was never in the service so I can't personally speak to that, but perhaps you are defining things in too narrow a way.

          replyreport
          1. 60

             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Lol your friends must have been in the "reserves". I did 4 years in artillery. That is a combat job. We train to shoot big guns to blow people up. If your friends said they were individuals in the marines and had absolute freedom. they were not true marines. If a superior in the marines gives you an order, you do not debate the order. This is lack of discipline. You do not "question" a superior if they were to give you an order to shoot a child in battle. The marines goal is to operate as a team, not as individuals. You and your friends are the one looking at the narrow picture.

             replyreport
             1. 72

                livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Marine, I served in the Army, yes you have to operate as a team and not as individuals, but you are wrong about following orders in this case.   An order which is unlawful not only does not need to be obeyed, but obeying such an order can result in criminal prosecution of the one who obeys it. Military personnel have an obligation and a duty to only obey Lawful orders and indeed have an obligation to disobey Unlawful orders, including orders by the president that do not comply with the UCMJ.
                
                In the heat of battle, these are choices the soldier/marine has to determine as an idividual.  You have to determine if the order is lawful or unlawful.  If it is to commit a crime, you can choose to disobey the order, if it is going to put you or your squad in harms way then that is to be expected and no you cannot disobey that order. 
                
                "I was only following orders" will not hold up with UCMJ or anywere else in any of the word's militaries.  It sure didn't hold of for the Nazi's that worked the death camps.

                replyreport
                1. 60

                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   So if you are ordered to shoot a child, you think this would be unlawful in every case? How about if the child was suspected of being strapped with bombs. Do you think the military would want you to follow orders or debate. If you debated, the strapped child could blow you up. You only have a moments notice. They teach to follow orders, not debate individual opinion.

                   replyreport
                   1. 72

                      livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Don't try and twist it up, I was pointing out the difference between a lawfull order and an unlawfull order.  They teach to follow lawfull orders, read articles 90-92 of the UCMJ(I think those are the articles) and they punish you severely for following unlawfull orders.
                      
                      The situation you point out is why you train.  You train every day just in case you are put in a position like that and you instictively know what to do.  If you only have moments then you have to react and not wait on orders.  In that scenario, you are acting as an individual. 
                      
                      You know that working as a team you come to trust every single person on that team...with your life.  So, you trust that your superiors are going to only give you lawfull orders and in only the rarest most heinous circumstances will unlawfull orders be made.  It is up to the individual soldier/marine to know the UCMJ and the Constitution which you swear to defend when you enlist.

                      replyreport
                      1. 60

                         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         I'm not twisting anything up. I was simply asking a different question with a different circumstance. Maybe this is why they send the marines in first, they follow orders then figure out whether the orders are right after the fight. Not during. If you are told an order, you do not think back to your UCMJ handbook, if told to fire, you fire without hesitation.

                         replyreport
                         1. 72

                            livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            I think I answered your question when I stated I was pointin out the diffence between a lawfull order and an unlawfull order. 
                            
                            You don't have to look back to the UCMJ handbook to know right from wrong but if you do, not only do you not deserve to be in the military defending the constitution, you don't deserve to be a citizen.  (not you personaly, the person who doesn't know right from wrong)
                            
                            The military does not teach you to follow, it's something you have to do.  The military teaches you to lead.  I can't believe you did not walk away from the Corp without the ability to lead. I know different.

                            replyreport
                            1. 60

                               marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               Lol, excellent. I did learn to lead. This is why I got out after my 4 years. A individual can only follow for so long. The marines teaches you to "follow" superior orders.  I don't know what the army taught you. Would you please tell me what your job was in the army? Just out of curiosity

                               replyreport
                               1. 72

                                  livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  I was a combat medic.  I was trained to be a leader, to make decisions on my own and not wait for orders because lives depended on me being able to make those decisions.

                                  replyreport
                                  1. 60

                                     marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                     Excellent. I'm glad I asked. I can see how you could be a combat medic and still have some individualism. As a combat medic would be needed to think to save lives. An infantryman would be trained to take lives.

                                     replyreport
20. 74

    Hauntyposted 14 years ago

    following individualism count as...?

    replyreport
    1. 60

       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Please explain how you follow individualism?

       replyreport
       1. 85

          Aya Katzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          If Individualism with a capital 'I' were a movement, then it would have followers, like every other movement. Some of the followers would be individuals, because they really chose to join it for the content. The rest would not be ...

          replyreport
21. 60

    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    I don't see how this is so hard for anyone to see. The military teaches an individual to follow making the individual a follower. The military teaches the recruit to act on demand/instinct/orders, not on debate. Is this a foreign language or am I missing something?

    replyreport
    1. 57

       moposanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       that is why such young recruitment age.

       replyreport
       1. 60

          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          This is very true and I agree 100%. Notice that they recruit more near the ghettos and trailor parks than the nice parts of town. hmmmmm who's more likely to join, a rich kid or a poor kid.

          replyreport
22. 85

    Aya Katzposted 14 years ago

    Does following orders, within a limited domain, automatically make someone not an individual?

    replyreport
    1. 60

       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       In my belief, yes, to an extent. If I were still in the marines and told to do an order I did not agree with, I would be punished for my individual logic of why I refused the order. If you want to be in the marines and be successful, you must "follow" all orders, even those which you do not agree with in your "individual" logic.

       replyreport
       1. 85

          Aya Katzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          But this could apply by extension to all employees. Imagine someone working at McDonalds who is told to serve a customer a meal that he believes is not in the customer's best health interests? Or how about an architect whose artistic principles are compromised by the tastes of his client? Where do we draw the line? Is it always wrong to accept employment when you know you will be asked to do things that may not always feel right to you?

          replyreport
          1. 60

             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Excellent questions. I definately believe there has to be moderation. However, I believe absolute individuality would be absolute freedom. Self-employeed working for oneself. I believe you can moderate individuality and following to get to an individual goal. One more thing, the marines and mcdonalds hardly compares. lol

             replyreport
             1. 0

                Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                But I believe Aya is right.  Some--especially officers--in the military (ie, my bf) knew that it was something of a 'game' and even an easy one because it was so clear cut--as opposed to working within a corporation where things are more political and may not even be unilateral.
                
                The bf, incidentally, is a self-employed architect, and still has to 'play the game,' of pleasing clients.  All of that, of course, is not the same as following when an order clearly goes against an individual conscience of determining right from wrong.  Given the age of military recruits, etc., and training, all of this get very, very murky.
                
                I must say, I do see a slightly different POV in him than from someone who would never have chosen the military in the first place and instead went for a liberal arts education.

                replyreport
23. 60

    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    To say an individual has absolute individual freedom in the marines is absolute henpecking.

    replyreport
24. 83

    RooBeeposted 14 years ago

    What would you like me to be??? (Haha just kidding -sorry, I try to be funny)

    replyreport
25. 60

    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    I never said that an individual must not first follow before learning to lead.

    replyreport
26. 60

    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    I would like to mention that officers are trained more as leaders than followers. The officer training is much different than the regular enlisted training. The officers follow officers, lead enlisted. The enlisted follow officers.

    replyreport
    1. 0

       Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yeah, true, but he went in as enlisted...a poor (but, of course smart,!) kid from Texas just wanting to get away and see the world.  He was chosen as an officer candidate.
       
       Hey--he got out of it for the same reasons. Officers have to take orders, too... 
       
       It's murky, this whole concept of leading/following, especially in regards, I'd say, to responsibility for war crimes.  He'd say that many young soldiers were and DO only follow orders and should not be held accountable for doing so.

       replyreport
       1. 60

          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I agree with you and him.

          replyreport
       2. 72

          livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I would agree to that too in certain cirmumstances, but like I stated earlier, the "I was only following orders" defense has never held up in court, military or civilian. 
          
          A huge problem is the age of the new recruits. I was only 18 when I joined many many moons ago.  But I was rare. I've had a problem with authority since day one, according to my mom when the doc slapped my ass when I was born, I pissed on him in spite...lol
          
          My only dispute was with following unlawful orders.  Being a medic gave me more liberty to make decisions on my own, but as you point out Marine, other positions didn't have that liberty.  And being a fresh 1st term enlistee, it would be hard for many to find the cojones to disobey an unlawfull order. Ask a seasoned soldier to follow blindly and I doubt you would get the same results.

          replyreport
          1. 60

             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Excellent points.

             replyreport
27. 60

    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    I believe there to be a huge amout of difference in individual freedom in the military compared to civilian life. In the military, I could be out sleeping in the dirt for 15-20 days. In civilian life, I have a bed, air conditioning, heat. I consider these freedoms.

    replyreport
28. 61

    TaylorGrahamposted 14 years ago

    I am maluable to be sure, but most comfortable and confident in leadership roles. 
    
    I am often just given authority, it's kind of fun!

    replyreport
29. 71

    AEvansposted 14 years ago

    Individual always have been always will be, can change it just am.

    replyreport
30. 70

    jenblacksheepposted 14 years ago

    Obviously, like everyone else I think of myself as unique ... I don't know anyone like me. But I don't feel the need to stand out all the time. If something is important to me then I speak out, if I don't want to do something I wont. But sometimes when I don't hav any strong opinion I'm happy just to follow someone else. Noone can claim to be completely individual in that everyone is influenced by the outside world.

    replyreport
    1. 60

       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       What if one rejects the negative influences/teachings of the outside world?

       replyreport
       1. 70

          jenblacksheepposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well yes, that would make you very individual but is it ACTUALLY possible? You wouldn't get very far in life. And, I can guarentee noone on this forum is one of those people.

          replyreport
          1. 60

             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Maybe possible to only draw on the good if you are always conscious of the moment. I will admit that it is hard to always be conscious of the moment.

             replyreport
31. 79

    Bard of Elyposted 14 years ago

    I am both! I am very much an individual but at times I follow the advice and guidance and opinions of others but then again, who does not do this? No one is totally individual because we are all a reflection of the thoughts and opinions of others and what others have taught us or inspired us to be!

    replyreport
    1. 60

       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I partly agree. Maybe we are only supposed to be taught to a certain point before we are supposed to teach ourselves?

       replyreport
32. 61

    chrissie123posted 14 years ago

    I see myself as an individual. I am a senior and highschool has really made me grow as a person. I was a follower 9-10 grade did the whole goth thing and got my heart broken and my dreams crushed by too many people. I went through a bad spell of not liking how i look and it really took a toll on me. In all I have become stronger. I use to care only what others had to say about me and always followed my untrustworthy friends. This year I have surrounded myself with people who make me feel good about myself and I have a great boyfriend. I am following myself only this year and making changes good for me.

    replyreport
33. 0

    annvansposted 14 years ago

    I am an individual unless I think I should be a follower, then I will be a follower

    replyreport
34. 0

    mtsi1098posted 14 years ago

    I am an individual by nature but will follow for compromise or teamship

    replyreport
35. 51

    Kadmielsposted 14 years ago

    I am a follower of our lord and savior jesus christ

    replyreport