Have you seen this article on the 1% and their spending?

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   adjkp25posted 11 years ago

   Interesting article about what the 1% is doing with their money these days and what they think about tax increases on themselves.
   
   http://finance.yahoo.com/news/fear-loat … 00847.html

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      Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      They're saving to punish us all. They debilitate and then rehabilitate the economic system at whim, for their own benefit. They were challenged, and now they'll make us pay.

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         Wesley Meachamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Having read the article from begininng to end I've found nothing that suggests any malicious intent. It does not appear to me that the people described in the article are trying to hurt anyone. Rather they are simply trying to ensure their on safety. There is nothing abnormal about this. You see the same basic behavior at all income levels. An article I read months ago described all Americans as spending less and saving more. The behaviors described in this article the same thiings that I would do if I were in their position... except for me it wouldn't be a change in behavior. I've saved money and acted like I didn't have any money from the day I started working.

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            Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I also read the article from beginning to end. Frankly, the article isn't going to suggest that there is any malicious intent- they are discussing the attitudes of the respondents based on the answers to the questions they asked. Different questions would ultimately throw up different responses.
            
            There's a difference between ensuring your own safety and accepting huge bonuses for poor performance. I'm paraphrasing, but doesn't the article also suggest that 1% are aware that their actions are hurting society?

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               Wesley Meachamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I think that if there was evidence of malicious intent the article would say so and the journalist who wrote it would have likely enjoyed saying as much. I know I would.
               
               I would agree with you on the issue of bonuses even though this isn't actually mentioned here. It may apply to these individuals but then again it may not.
               
               As to your question... It says that the 1% are aware that by not taking risks with their money they are not helping the economy and that this cautious attitude in theory does hurt society. So yes they are aware that their actions are hurting society. That doesn't mean that hurting society is their motivation or their intent.
               
               Of course you're also correct that different answers would yeild different results. In addition I'll even support your arguement for you... just because someone took the time to answer the questions doesn't mean that he answered them honestly. If he did answer them honestly that still doesn't mean that he answered them entirely. He may have omitted a few things from his responses. And by the same coin... it doesn't mean that they did omit anything.
               
               I do the same thing with my conservative friends who believe that Obama isn't actually a US citizen. Conspiracy theories are usually not true. I don't believe that there is a conspiracy here because there is really no motivation. If they intentionally hurt the economy they would also be hurting themselves. I just don't buy it.

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                  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I would too, but if I wanted to be taken seriously I'd just report the facts (?) responses. And you're right, that statement does not *prove* that hurting society is their intent, but it doesn't necessarily discredit that argument either. We have no way of knowing for sure, so yes, it does come down to opinion and that's what I was giving (should have said IMHO)
                  
                  It wasn't an argument it was just an observation, and a question. It didn't really need substantiating by you or me. In fact, I'd go as far as to say that one respondent has been fairly frank  ""My savings rate has gone up and I'm not spending, which I realize is bad for the economy ... but I like having a wide moat around me so that nothing can bother me" He/she talks openly about self interest.
                  
                  I agree that the whole Obama birth certificate none sense is exactly that (IMHO) However, the basis of the claims are not rational. "He's a socialist who wants to destroy America." and there's no other logic or evidence to support this claim.
                  
                  On the other hand, if we ask ourselves whose needs might be served by weakening the economy? In the long term, how may the 1% benefit by hoarding their cash? Ultimately, who will be blamed for low growth? Are they really hurting themselves by sitting on their cash, despite the fact that it is already hurting the economy? And finally, how might the 1% benefit from a more banker/tax avoider friendly government?
                  
                  I guess it's just a matter of perspective rather than a conspiracy theory as such.

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                     Wesley Meachamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     Most of these people think in terms of benefit/reward versus cost/risk. The conspiracy theory that they might try to purposly tank the economy assumes that they believe that they would survive such a crash. Wrecking an economy would be very messy work. They would actually stand to lose everything they have. If the economy did crash I don't think that their savings would do them that much good. (This of course is my own opinion, :-) )
                     
                     Unless it had already been converted to other currencies before the decline began. If you see all or most of the 1% suddenly convert the majority of their wealth into another currency like RMB then maybe something might be amiss.
                     
                     I don't recall where I read this, it might be in that article or another one, but I did recently read that about 60% of the most wealthy people in America believe that they should be paying more in taxes. For someone to say that it suggests to me that this person has a vested interest in the welfare of this society. (Though of course not saying it does not prove the opposite).

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                        Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        The thing is though, they have survived a pretty rotten crash, have been bailed out and not been held to account (in any substantive way that is) I agree, there are wealthier people who do believe that they should make larger contributions to society/the economy. Nevertheless, when it comes to converting currency the 1%, or should I say some from the 1%, arn't that big on transparency. Do we really know what they are doing with their cash? I'm skeptical.

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                           Wesley Meachamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           Nope... we sure don't know what they're doing with their cash, any more than they would know what I'm doing with mine.
                           
                           As you've probably guessed, I'm skeptical too...

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                              Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes, I doubt you'll like this response, but I'd like to bet that they have a much better understanding of what you're doing with your cash, then you have of theirs.

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                                 Wesley Meachamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 You may have a point there.
                                 
                                 Except that all of my cash is in RMB. I currently am not holding any dollars.
                                 
                                 Other than the $10. I've made on HP....

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                                    Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    You lucky person, I see you're living in China (I'm assuming of course that you like it there) China is definitely on my bucket list, a country I've always wanted to visit. I'm sure you'll make many more dollars on HP in the coming months.

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                                       Wesley Meachamposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       I like it and I don't. Things are different. That can be both good and bad.
                                       If you look at it from the point of view of gaining experience even the bad can be good I guess.

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   Dame Scribeposted 11 years ago

   They are probably uncomfortable with 'blame' being placed upon them by a angry people

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   Niteriterposted 11 years ago

   Is this the beginning of the end for trickle-down economics? The incentives have been provided, the wealth has not trickled down.

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      Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      It keeps trickling up, and defying the laws of gravity. See, the 1% CAN work miracles.

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         Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         The real miracle will have occurred when the 1% begin to appreciate that people value trumps capital value.

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            Josakposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Don't hold your breath.

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               Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I'm already blue in the face. (I love puns!)

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            Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            They would have to have a) a conscience, which so far appears completely devoid. And b) a tangible experience of reality.Again, devoid.

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               Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               LOL, Hollie! Have you ever wondered how much we'd change if we suddenly found ourselves in the !%?

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                  Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Well, there's no likelihood of that happening anytime soon. I think that lot would bore me, to be honest. I'd prolly just get drunk at dinner parties, make a fool of myself and become an even bigger pain the ass than I already am.

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                     Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     This comment removes all doubt that you and I are soul mates.

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                        Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        I'd be quite proud to be your soul mate, Niteriter.

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                           Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           We'll have to be careful that Wizard doesn't find out. I think he/she/it might make trouble. There's an outside chance that he's a 1%-er infiltrating the ranks of the good people.

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                              Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                              Find that hard to believe, but perhaps that's because I'm arrogant? Wizard appears to bring forth reasoned, valid arguments (and pictures ) The 1% bring forth..emm, what's the word I'm looking for? Not reasoned, not valid? Just..emmm. help me out here.

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                                 Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                 My accusation of Wiz being in the 1% is to shake the shavings out of a new word I've been working on for a while - facetious. Besides, it usually provokes WIz into a frenzy that results in all those wonderful graphics he posts.

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                                    Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                    They are wonderful arn't they? Facetious, interesting, I've heard some posters on here like to refer to it as "the liberal elite" What does that mean, educated? Truly, I'm at a loss.

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                                       Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                                       I'm not quite sure who the "elite" are either. Most of the time it looks to me like they are the folks who have studied material other than the brochure, "100 Things That Prove the Other Guy is Your Enemy."

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   Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years ago

   
   
   This is Reagan talking about millionaire tax loopholes that Republicans seem to always forget . . .
   
   http://youtu.be/cgbJ-Fs1ikA
   
   Meanwhile . . .
   
   

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      Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Contradictions are not easy to recognize in the heat of knowing you're right.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Nonsense.

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      Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Nonsense is my specialty.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   The liberal elite is the upper middle class. They are educated, read books and generally well off. For the right, the liberal elite are the malefactors substituted for all the sins of the corporate capitalists.

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      Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I like the way you positioned the word "malefactor". One of these days I just might apply to be one of those.

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   knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

   Probably the origin of Draco Malfoy in the Harry Potter series, I am guessing.

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   Hollie Thomasposted 11 years ago

   oh, ok. So the liberal elite are offenders because they read? I know you are saying that for the right they are the upper middle class, but are they really? Many poor people, and believe me I've been poor in my day, relatively speaking probably still am, also have an education. That doesn't make us upper anything. But middle class in the US is not the same as in the UK. I'm working class.

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   Wizard Of Whimsyposted 11 years ago

   Shake your booty kids and enjoy the battle with the prattle!
   
   

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      Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Oh my gosh, who gave you that picture of me on the beach.

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         Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Hollie, you are a temptress at your core! LOL! And I told you we would draw Wizard out of hiding eventually.

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            Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Indeed I am and  indeed you did.

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               Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               When you agree with me so often I totally lose my train of thought!

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      Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Wizard, I would say you have a way with words, except... you know.

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    knolyourselfposted 11 years ago

    "liberal elite are offenders because they read" The majority of any progressive capitalist society is lower middle class usually around 70%. These are the people the ruling classes have to control. So you give them enemies, millions if necessary as anybody and everybody but...

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       Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       Yes. Education=Danger. People who are unaware are so much easier to control, because they actually believe that they are free. People who read, a lot, from different sources- are a pain in the ass, because they keep doing that thing...critical thinking.

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       Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I won't speak for Hollie, but I understood her to say at the beginning of this discussion that the "liberal elite" is a phrase thrown around in a derogatory way by folks who have an opposing view. And I further think we were agreeing that a "liberal elite" doesn't exist in reality.

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    Hollie Thomasposted 11 years ago

    I actually don't believe that the liberal elite exist. I think the phrase has been coined by the upper echelons who feel a tad too challenged, so they create another scapegoat, a deflection, from the issues. Say liberal elite  enough times and parrots will repeat.

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       Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

       I didn't know I was a liberal until someone here in the forums accused me of being one. But now that I know what I am, I think I'll make a run for the "elite" section. Once I get there I'll go to work on the parrots!

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          Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

          Me neither. In this country a liberal is.. not good. Let's just put it that way.

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             Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

             Do you think there are liberals in the 1%? Could Warren Buffet, for example, be labelled a liberal?

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                Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                He's an odd one, me thinks. Backs Obama, schmoozes and invests in Koch enterprises. Barclays backs BO but puts three times as much money into Romney's campaign. They're hedge betters, me thinks. Opportunists, the ideology of self interest-nothing more. Not liberals, Republicans or anything in the centre.

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                   Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                   I'd love to dig in to that one with you, but I'm being called away by "the real world". Could I catch up with you a little later, if not here then on another thread? I'm truly sorry to have to bale out like this.

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                      Hollie Thomasposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                      Of course. It's 2.25am here and I'm knackered. So, goodnight Niteriter and catch up soon.

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                         Niteriterposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                         And a good night to you. Cheers.

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    JaxsonRaineposted 11 years ago

    Why do people always talk about the 1% as if they are the ones responsible for everything bad in this country?
    
    There are a lot of people in that group. I have family and friends in that group, and they are good people.
    
    I just hate broad strokes, they always miss the point.

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    adjkp25posted 11 years ago

    Wasn't near a computer this weekend to read up on the comments.
    
    My intent on sharing this was to show that the easy solutions out there to just give the folks in the 1% more so they can create jobs or whatever has flaws.
    
    Just like the article stated some of these folks are not spending their money creating jobs, that is the core flaw with this philosophy.  Just because you give them the extra resources it doesn't guarantee that these resources will actually be used, making the extra investment almost a dead end street.

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