DILEMMA, DILEMMA

1. 84

   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   Ah, the choiceless choice.   If hell came to shove would you rather be unemployed or have the job from the 9th circle of inferno?  There are some people out there who state that they would rather be unemployed than to have a job that they either do not like, pay miserably, or a crappy no where job.    There are some college graduates who assert that they would rather be unemployed than to take any type of menial job.or a job totally below them.

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Take away the social safety net and let these wonderful grads either stand on a street corner begging for food or go hungry.  Let them spend a few nights under a bridge in the cold with other homeless souls.  Now ask again.
      
      An honest person will work whatever job it takes to feed  themselves and their family; a prideless bum sponging off the largess and charity of society will claim jobs are beneath them, at least until it becomes "work or go hungry".  An empty belly seems to do wonders when deciding priorities of pride or food.
      
      My wife's grandmother used to be the pastor at a Salvation Army church and we were there when Jesus Christ visited, asking for food.  No kidding - long hair, white sheet wrapped toga style and identified himself as Jesus.  Asked to do some minor yard work while Grandma prepared soup and sandwich, the reply was "Jesus doesn't work for food".  Assured that that was the price of lunch, he left.  He also got no sympathy from any of us, although we did report it to the police as a possible mental case.
      
      College educated, I've scraped rat s*** off of grain silo walls for minimum wage, and see no reason others can't, too.  No dilemma I can see!

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   2. 81

      Dale Hydeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think that those you speak of have never done without...They have never been homeless nor truly hungry.  I have been both in the past.
      
      Once you experience the "other" side of life and stop depending on "family" to provide for you... it is called surviving.  You will do what is necessary.  Spit the silverspoon out of your mouth, lol.
      
      The whining by those you speak of simply would only get me to do one thing in regards to them.... avoid them at all costs.

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      1. 95

         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         +1  Avoidance at all costs.  Including not offering a job; anyone to "proud" to support themselves in unlikely to perform well in any job.
         
         Of course that attitude can be a problem - is it why the long term unemployed have such a hard time finding work?  Because employers assume they don't really want a job and thus don't offer them one?

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   3. 0

      Sarra Garrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I don't see the dilema.  WORK!  It doesn't matter, like wilderness said, I'd scrape rat S*** off silo walls if it meant I had a job.  Hell I'd take any job and it doesn't matter what it is, it's a job!  Oh, young people have no clue what real life is all about!  This is why it should be mandatory for all 18 year olds to be in the military for no less than 4 years.  Now, that's learning work ethic!

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      1. 79

         frantisek78posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         What's the point of doing a job if you can't make ends meet? Not everyone who is currently unemployed can just go and start digging ditches or scraping silo walls and suddenly have enough to live on. If people don't make enough money to make some sort of living or at least start paying off debts then it is a Sisyphean effort to no end. Working for work's sake is a luxury that millionaires have, not those who need the money.
         And there are many young people out there who have grown up in poverty who know a lot more about "what life is" than many baby boomers who didn't have to grow up in a failing economy but who grew up during America's rise to becoming the preeminent world economy for decades. Today's young people are growing up in an era of decline.
         Send all 18 year old's into the military for 4 years?? That would be heaven for the military establishment: a nonstop flow of cannon fodder. Also, for most soldiers being in the military is just boredom and repetitive tasks, even in war zones. How that will give them work ethic is beyond me. Look at the thousands of soldiers who have come back from wars recently and are unable to get a job. Their military experience has become a negative point for many companies, not a positive one.

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         1. 95

            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            And of course if they can't make enough to live an easy life and pay off debts, they should sit back, play video games and collect welfare. 
            
            Can't say I agree with that.  Labor, whether sisyphean or not, carries a great deal more pride with it than sponging off of someone else when the person is quite capable of holding a job.

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            1. 0

               Sarra Garrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Amen!  Sense of self worth is important.  Yes, there are people who are working full time and are still homeless, but they are working and not sponging off the government.

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               1. 79

                  frantisek78posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  But I guess it's OK if the government sponges off of citizens' taxes in order to spend trillions of dollars on wars and the military instead of trying to turn some of that money towards societal problems including homelessness, health care, education etc?

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            2. 79

               frantisek78posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               You are assuming everyone who wants to work can find a job. Not just anyone will be hired to do manual labor like in the old days. For every clerical job posted there are an average of 200 applicants. Employers are hiring people part-time in order to avoid paying benefits. It's not just a "go out and work" type of world anymore when there are not enough places to work in. In today's job market even many menial jobs require certain skills sets that weren't needed in the past. Years ago employers would train workers, not in order to cut costs they only hire people with the skills they are looking for. Acquiring those skills costs money, which means getting into debt with no guarantee of a job afterwards.

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         2. 84

            gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Many college graduates contend that it is utterly futile to take just ANY job.   They assert that it is FAR BETTER to wait for a job/career that is commensurate with their educational background and with the pay that goes along with it.   Many of them contend that a college graduate who is stupid, idiotic, and desperate enough to take a clerical job or any Mcjob will NEVER SUCCEED as fast as college graduates who wait it out, even if it is 4-5 years, and get a commensurate job.   
            
            They state that college graduate who waits for a good job will succeed FAR FASTER than those who are in Mcjobs who can expect to be AT THE BOTTOM or NEAR BOTTOM for the majority of their lives.   They believe that work for work sake is moronic to say the least.   They are of the opinion as to why a college graduate should stoop to take a Mcjob as that would be an UTTER WASTE of their college education.

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            1. 95

               wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Far better for whom, I wonder?  The grad that prefers to sit at home guzzling beer or the one picking up the tab for it?
               
               This sounds like a terrific example of total rationalization to a predetermined conclusion designed for the lazy or incompetent.

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               1. 84

                  gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  Decades ago when I was a recent college graduate and worked as a typist, many college graduate friends of mine told me that they are going to wait until the RIGHT job came along.  One even told me that I WAS STUPID for taking a tying job.   She told me that I WOULD NEVER ADVANCE because I STARTED SO LOW.   
                  
                  When I was a Human Rights Specialist,   there was one woman on the job with a Master's Degree.   She told me that she was laid off from a job and did not work for six months.  She indicated that with her advanced level of education, she would never take a job beneath her.    When I graduated from college, jobs were hard to find but I wanted independence and my own money, so I took the typing job.  I did not want to be dependent upon my parents even though they were affluent.  I wanted a sense of independent autonomy which only a job could bring.

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2. 62

   prettydarkhorseposted 11 years ago

   I can do any job like dishwasher or waitressing, anything as long as it is a decent job instead of asking for help from my parents or take government assistance. There are many there who really need help like those who are disabled. I think I want to experience jobs which will make me appreciate hard work. I had my fair share of different types of work from teaching, research, waitressing etc. :-)

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3. 84

   gmwilliamsposted 11 years ago

   All spot on and excellent responses as usual!

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4. 0

   JustCraftyposted 11 years ago

   I have been on both siedes of this situation.  I have been unemployed and never begged for someone to give me anything.  I will and have done jobs that most people would say noway to but guess what it meant I had what I needed to survive and nothing free.
   
   I have a college degree but I don't believe it is an automatic switch that will give me the job I want without the work. 
   
   The college graduate who thinks they can wait till the perfect 9-5 job with all the benefits comes along will be soon to realize that it is a long wait.
   
   If you start to work at a crappy job and get paid then it should motivate you to work at getting that good job with the better pay and benefits it is all a lifelong journey of what you make it.

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   1. 84

      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      +1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000!!!!!!!   Wonderfully said.

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5. 79

   Mighty Momposted 11 years ago

   I'm going to take a slightly different tack on this question which is more theoretical and "evergreen" than specific to today's economy.
   But it is this: Sometimes losing a job is the best thing that can happen to you.
   If you have been miserable in your job, you are probably not giving it your best. That's not good for the employer or for you.
   If you are being mistreated in a job and it is taking a toll on your mental or physical health, why stick around while they grind you slowly into the ground?
   Sometimes we lack the courage to walk away from a toxic situation because we are afraid.
   The more we retreat into negativity in the job we have, the harder it becomes to be positive in an interview. Staying stuck becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy.
   
   Sometimes the universe gives us a swift kick in the butt.
   God does for us what we cannot do for ourselves.
   Being laid off is painful and a shock, certainly.
   But it can open new doors you didn't even know existed.
   That has been my experience -- twice in six months, actually,  when not one, but two marketing departments were closed and I found myself temporarily unemployed.
   
   Remember: You can't make lemonade without lemons!
   

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   1. 84

      gmwilliamsposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      GREAT ANSWER, I LIKE IT!

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6. 56

   Dame Scribeposted 11 years ago

   I think a lot of Human Resource people should take a good hard look at jobs new 'grads' have taken and  give high regard to those accepting minimum wages, since it shows a 'willingness' to work. New grads shouldn't have it easy unless they start from the bottom and work their way up. A resume can be very telling about 'character'.

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7. 0

   JustCraftyposted 11 years ago

   I have experience in many types of jobs which can be a good thing but it can also not be a good thing when looking for a job in todays world because a lot of it is from manufacturing jobs which barely exist so people hiring look at this experience as you being a dinosaur in the experience field.
   
   I also have a lot of experience in one field which is retail, this is a good and bad thing also, I can usually land a parttime job a month in this field but I have filled out hundreds of applications in different field so I could do a career change but I have no experience in the new fields that I am applying for and obviously by the zero job offers the years of experience are not being looked at as transferable.
   
   I have continued to be a life long learner taking classes to try to advance in my current field as a District Manager or Regional Manager because I have done District Supervisor for almost three years but even with the schooling and work experience, I still hear you don't meet the minimum requirements for this position which leads me to believe all the ones hiring for are looking at on my resume is to see if I have a Bachelor Degree which I have the equivalent of but not on one piece of paper.
   
   I would really like to think that employers and employees are looked at for more than words on a piece of paper that say you have the ability to think, believe me I have been able to think for a lot of years and stay employed for the last 18 at my 14 parttime jobs.
   
   I hope new and old graduates are judged on what they can do, as well as, having a piece of paper that says they can THINK on it.

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8. 79

   frantisek78posted 11 years ago

   All these young people with fancy college degrees really should understand that doing menial, minimum wage jobs is the way to go instead of being picky and lazy. These jobs paying minimum wage cleaning toilets or flipping burgers should earn them more than enough to pay back tens of thousands of dollars in college loans, pay for rent, health insurance, car insurance, gas, and food. Why don't they get this? Judging by some comments it is obvious that prices for goods and services are still the same as they were in the 1960s or 1970s!
   People just need to search harder for these elusive menial jobs that will allow them to move away from home. If the Brady Bunch and Opie could do it, why can't today's youngsters? There is no better way to make them see the light than giving examples of how other people managed to make some sort of living by doing low paying jobs decades ago. After all, nothing has changed since then, right?

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9. 0

   JustCraftyposted 11 years ago

   My first two jobs that I had from 16-22 were jobs in a fish processing cannery and a blueberry processing plant.  These weren't glamourous jobs but they were manufacturing piece work jobs where there was an incentive to work, as hard, as you could because the faster you worked the more you could make.  It was up to you to make the amount of money you wanted and that was great because I loved to make, as much as, I could because it was like a challenge everyday to set a goal and see if I could meet it.  Motivation was the driving force behind this job and I made more per hour way back then than I do now.

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10. 0

    JustCraftyposted 11 years ago

    The military isn't the answer to the working for young people problem always.  I was a military wife and found after my husband got out after four years it was even harder for him to get a job because the employers outside of the military don't recognize the work experience because they can't check with anyone to see what they have experience doing.
    
    He had been a diesel mechandic in their but couldn't get a job doing it outside of the military.
    
    It was a little discouraging to see that you serve your country but they let you down once you get out.

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11. 89

    izettlposted 11 years ago

    I think getting stuck in a Mcjob is a waste of time. Why not...not work but volunteer or shadow someone who is in your dream job? Or use the time for good. Are youth doing this? Probably not. Many have never had jobs and I don't agree with that. If you've seen some of these $50,000+ school loans you'd not work too just so you didn't have to pay on it yet. When I went to college everyone said you will make about what your loan is per year. Sooooo not true, but I took a job related to my ideal field even though it paid waaaaay less than my waitress job. When you're working a Mcjob you may miss out on good interviews for jobs you want.

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12. 0

    Sunnie Dayposted 11 years ago

    Hi GM...this got me thinking. Who supports these young people while they are contemplating? I think a work ethic in children is instilled and frankly "the waiting game" not permitted. I think it enables children well into their adult years. I applaud you for being so smart at such a young age, you remind me of my youngest who has always wanted to be independent, making her own way. She struggled but worked hard and half the time I was asking if she needed anything, slipping her money here and there, as she tried so hard. Stupidity is the thinking that others will support you while you sit and wait for a better job and not taking something to sustain yourself..

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