What to do about this hub?

1. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

   I've just had a hub idled--yes, I prefer to use this word--which has a score of 84 and over 4000 views.  Its a seasonal hub and usually gets me quite a few views during the winter.  I understood from the staff these would not be idled if they received traffic during their peak season.  Apparently this is not the case after all.  I care not to edit it as it has never been idled before now.
   
   This is why I detest the new program so bad.  I see so much crud passing the filters and the MTurk raters in record time and they have noting better to do than to create extra work for many of us.  They seem to be cutting their own throats with this new system, as well as ours too.  I for one will not play their silly little games.
   
   I'll not put anything else of a commercial nature on HP until something is done about this ridiculous system, nor edit another hub to get it featured again.  I asked for some stats to indicate this program is improving anything whatsoever, but apparently they have none.  Quantcast seems to back up my impression about the program also.  Playing flippin'  games with out hard work is simply unacceptable.  So see how much you earn off of my CW, HubPages, because that's all your gonna get from me from now on!   

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      What time of year is it aimed at, when was it published and what is the 30 day traffic?  Those are the figures I find pertinent in deciding what to do.

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      1. 59

         Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yes, I realize some will simply play along with this system, Wilderness.  This is why we are still stuck with it.  When  they get the other junk we know is still on here off, I'll worry about taking their advice seriously.  I'm not gonna play games with these people any longer.  This hub has made both HP and myself money and how brilliant of them to take it off. I wonder about the ability of those who designed this mess.  I have no faith in these people anymore!  Sheesh!  And hell yes, this is an official rant! 

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         1. 95

            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            Sorry - I thought that you might have been asking for help/advice - asking what others are doing with similar problems.  Happens I just went through that same thing, so asked for particulars.
            
            My error - rant away.

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            1. 59

               Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               No problem, wilderness.  If i thought there was someone on the staff or the forums who could tell me something useful I would be asking for advice.  Unfortunately, no one seems to have a clue what to do except say" get on the first page of Google" and you'll do fine.  LOL!  I think everyone is having to deal with this stuff, no matter who they are.
               
               No, ain't playin' their games anymore and I suggest any newbies reading this to run awaaaaaay!!!!

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   2. 86

      Simone Smithposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Hmm... I don't remember where we said seasonal Hubs wouldn't lost Featured status if they received traffic over the peak season (I apologize if we did- and if that message is still live, let me know where it is so I can amend it), though in a couple of weeks, that should indeed be the case (we're tweaking the way timing works to give new Hubs longer timeframes).
      
      Thanks for your patience and for bearing with us; it's nice to hear you're going to be working on some creative writing in the meantime (BTW "Simone" is an excellent name for evil characters).
      
      And it's fine not to edit your seasonal Hub if its season isn't going to come around for a while- just be sure to set a calendar reminder to update it when the right time comes around!

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      1. 59

         Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         No thanks, Simone.  I'll move it somewhere else where the system isn't so screwed up.  All I've published lately is CW simply because of this mess.  Let the others jump through the hoops for y'all, there seems to be plenty who don't mind.  I'll post another hub for earnings when you guys can show this program is actually doing the site some good and when you remove the plethora of spammy, ill-written junk from the site.  Sorry for the rant but this has gone too far to let slide any longer.  It seems we've all been dealing with lots of fiction lately.

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      2. 95

         wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I have no idea which thread, but yes there was information along those lines.  Something to the effect that a hub could gather enough traffic in a short season to effectively "coast" through the rest of the year.  Not that it would, of course, but that it could.

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      3. 84

         psycheskinnerposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Honestly I cannot tell you exactly which thread this happened in.  But I do recall such a statement being made. Something about the period over which traffic was measured. 
         
         Because otherwise the message is: don't bother writing seasonal content.  So it would be nice if that was made clear.

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         1. 59

            Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            This whole idling thing is very detrimental to us.  Many don't understand you lose any links to your hub you've gained when they do this.  Then if you have to edit it to get it featured again you simply start all over again.  And I'm not positive the No-index tag they put on it doesn't give a bad message to Google as others have said.
            
            And this is something else I detest about the new system.  The favorites who get instant publishing privileges--yes, usually the same ones--don't get such a tag put on their work and thus aren't penalized in the very beginning.  There has not been any reasonable explanation why those of who have always tried to create good hubs are being punished by this ridiculous system by having to wait to be featured.  Get one of the staff to give you a good reason if you feel lucky.  Here, I'll ask!
            
            Hey Paul, Simone, or whoever,  Why don't you trust those of us who have never had a hub refused for publication?  How is this not an insult to us and what harm are you afraid of if you trust us?

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            1. 59

               Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Bumpety bump. 1st time around.

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            2. 59

               Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               Bump......bump 2

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      4. 85

         rebekahELLEposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I remember that thread, it was a few weeks ago.  Derek gave this response in regard to seasonal hubs.
         http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/108768? … ost2319186 
         
         There are a few staff responses throughout the thread.

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         1. 59

            Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            This doesn't explain why some Hubbers have their work idled with low traffic and others do not.  This is what I want staff to explain.

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      5. 54

         janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

         This is the quote from Derek:
         
         "Something I don't think I made clear earlier is that there is a yearly component of the traffic threshold, so if your seasonal Hub gets enough traffic during its season it does not need to get traffic the whole year long.
         
         Now just looking at summerberrie's profile and examples, these all made it through QAP with no problem, so now all you need to worry about is the traffic threshold. The examples you provided are all new Hubs that you published just after their Fall season had past. It will be hard for these to get traffic until their season next year, so you definitely will need to take some action at least sometime before next year.
         
         Taking a look at your other seasonal Hubs, your Christmas Hubs look like they were published around the same time but they were still "in season" at the time so they got a bit more traffic. They are currently still Featured, but they are in danger too because they didn't get quite enough to keep them Featured the whole year.
         
         The real problem with these Hubs is that they don't rank well in search results. Even during their season they're not going to perform very well in their current search position. Seasonality effects the number of searches that people are performing, but not where your content ranks in those search results. If you search for your exact title on Google, both the ones I looked at don't show up until page 3 or 4 of search results. That's not a good place to be.
         
         One strategy could be to keep working on them until they get on first page of results for your exact title. Making small little improvements over the course of the year as they approach their season will 1, ensure the Hub stays Featured the whole year (since any edit gives you a free pass on traffic for a while) and 2, probably significantly increase your odds of getting on the first page of results for your title and 3, probably help you learn a lot over the course of the year about getting Hubs to rank well in search results and 4, if you get them to page one they will likely have the minimum traffic heartbeat even out of season. All of that seems work that definitely adds value to your content and will likely position you for much greater success next season and into the future.
         
         So, when is the best time to publish a seasonal Hub? It's a good question and I guess it depends on your goals and strategy. If you publish a Christmas Hub in the Spring, at least you will have the whole year to refine it and figure out how to get it on page 1 of search results, but you likely will need to keep working on it to keep it Featured. Alternately, you could wait until a month or two before the season and, while hoping for page 1, be happy with the traffic from page 4 (unless you're really smart or lucky). Even page 4 would likely be enough to get you over the yearly traffic threshold while it's in season, then you have a whole year before traffic requirements come into play again. Typically seasonal Hubs do better and better each year, so you should have no problems once you have your first successful year with a seasonal Hub. But if you can keep working on it until it gets it to page 1 of a search for your exact title, it will likely be fine even off-season for a long time to come."

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         1. 54

            janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

            In summary HP has confirmed (via Derek in past posts)  that there are 3 traffic tests
            => Short-term - HP expects a 'Heart Beat' in the first 60 days  (minimum number 30 say (edit: wilderness)???)
            => Annual - There is an annual traffic test which appears to be more than an average of a hub a day (>450 say???) [ incidentally the overall average for HP is about one hub per day].
            => Quarterly - This one is a mystery, may relate to seasonal???
            
            But Simone has confirmed that these traffic tests are under review???? However,  the results will probably never be announced?

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            1. 95

               wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               That's the way I read his posts, except that he was very careful NOT to give anything like minimum numbers necessary.  It seems like that at one point he told someone that 30 visits per month was more than adequate, but I could be wrong there.
               
               I don't recall anything about quarterly, though, except that publishing in different quarters could affect how a seasonal hub works out.  Publish first quarter for an Xmas hub and it will probably go idle; publish the last quarter and a good one probably won't.  That kind of thing.

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            2. 57

               MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

               If you are looking for an exact answer in numbers, you are probably never going to get one.  Proprietary information is proprietary for a reason. 
               
               No business is completely transparent, especially in QA.  I'm not sure why everyone is expecting HP to be.  That would be like Google discussing exactly what their algorithms look like.
               
               It's frustrating not to know the specifics, I agree, but it is unreasonable to expect to have an exact formula laid out for everyone to see.

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               1. 54

                  janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  What if HP said that they expect a minimum of 2 hits per day
                  => in the first 2 months( 60 say, average 2 hits per day, 30 per month, 60 for 2 months ),
                  => in the last quarter (three month period) (90 say)
                  => and over a year. (600 say)
                  It is against the rules to click you own hubs, and both HP and G are likely to ban the offender.  Why would this be bad? Why would it lead to gaming the system?
                  You could see how you hubs were going and do some work on adding links, changing titles to lift traffic to meet these expectations. Why would that be bad??? Currently we have no idea. If you click on the 'featured column heading' twice (so that the up arrow is displayed) the ones listed below the "blanks" are probably the endangered ones - this may provide  a clue but it appears to list the hubs in hubscore order (lowest to biggest). Hub score partially depends on traffic. - as traffic declines so does the hub score.
                  
                  PS. If HP said that the minimum QAP score was 50 and QAP was published to replace hubscore, Authors could work on hubs to lift their ratings above 60 say - why would that be bad? Especially as HP already publishes a hubscore for every hub out of 100.
                  More traffic and better quality - Isn't that what hubbers and HP want ?
                  Why not help by making it explicit so people know what to work on?

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                  1. 57

                     MelissaBarrettposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     You have to look at the purpose, I could easily get 20 people to view a hub just to keep it from going Idle.  It doesn't make it a good hub, nor does it make it one that will ever get traffic.
                     
                     My friends aren't going to click on ads... and yes HP wants people who are going to click on ads. 
                     
                     2 views from Google a day is a bit different from two of my friends looking in... in terms of possible earning potential for HP.
                     
                     And it IS about earning potential, and it's not unreasonable for HP to expect to earn money.  That's what they are supposed to be doing.

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                     1. 54

                        janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

                        You're right - trying to suggest improvements is a waste of time.
                        I give up.
                        Last post on HP till traffic goes UP( its been declining since Feb 2011 - Quantcast).
                        
                        Cheers and Best Wishes to All Hubbers and Staff,
                        
                        DOWN SCOPE!
                        
                        

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                        1. 95

                           wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                           You might have a long wait - if history is any guide we won't see any real improvement until after summer.
                           
                           I certainly don't see any reason not to come up with suggested improvements, but we need to keep in mind that those improvements need to benefit HP, not just we hubbers.  If it doesn't, or if it actually hurts, we're not going to see any of them.
                           
                           In this case, I think your suggestions would destroy the reason behind the idling process, and HP isn't going to use them as a result no matter how much it would help you.  Or other hubbers, of course.  You have to approach the problem from the point of view of HP, not just ours.

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                  2. 95

                     wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                     But you can do that now!  So far I haven't heard of anyone being idled for 60 views per month - make sure that every hub gets that and you're home free. 
                     
                     The only reason to know the number is to maintain the minimum necessary and it's certainly not the goal to have 50,000 hubs on the site getting the minimum number of hits monthly to stay alive.  Publish the number and that's exactly what HP will see.

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            3. 54

               janderson99posted 11 years agoin reply to this

               I can find the post where Derk said there were three including a 'quarterly one', but he did say it.
               
               Here are some more quotes.
               
               "Even seasonal Hubs that do well typically have a heartbeat the whole year. But the free pass currently happens whenever you edit it. So you can edit a bit, perhaps you may choose to even add a new photo or freshen it up a bit with some things you've learned in the last year, a month or two before you expect it to take off."
               
               "Perhaps a simpler way to explain it, your Hub needs a heartbeat to stay Featured. The Hub initially gets a free pass for a few months to get a heartbeat. We've seen Hubs that eventually draw traffic typically start off with a little spike that would easily get them over this threshold. Even Hubs that don't get a lot of traffic for a long time but do eventually get some traffic typically have at least a heartbeat while they are in their "dormant" stage. That's all we require. If it's been out there for a while and it doesn't have a heartbeat, we currently feel that, if search traffic is your goal, it truly does need your attention and it's important that we remove it from the index until it gets that attention."

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               1. 93

                  habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  A few months?? Not true. An exclusive title hub that was published in December has been idle for a while.

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               2. 95

                  wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

                  I don't recall having one idled in the first couple of months - if I did it's been a while.
                  
                  It's that heartbeat thing to me.  What's a heartbeat?  1 per week?  1 per day?  Maybe averaged to 30 per month?  At a very rough guess a third of my hubs aren't getting that - will they all be idled?  So far no.  And I have to say, any hub that can't see that number after a year does need some work (unless, of course, it's seasonal). 
                  
                  If they're idled and I lose them all it might come to five or six hundred views per month, gone.  That's what?  $3?  It isn't worth the fuss!  Now, if those hubs were all published in the past year I might be more concerned, but they're not.  Or at least not all of them - maybe half were written last year and I do think that hubs less than a year old still might have "hidden" potential.

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      6. 90

         Rock_njposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         I have heard it from many Hubbers that they were conveyed the message from HubPages that seasonal Hubs wouldn't lose Featured status.  I remember when the idle hubs program started late last summer there was some discussion of this seasonal hub shortcoming, and I remember (can't remember where) reading a reply from someone at HubPages that they would ensure that seasonal hubs were not idled due to their uneven traffic patterns. 
         
         Just to be clear, you are saying that in a few weeks HubPages' policy will be to give seasonal hubs a pass from idling, if they get sufficient traffic during their seasonal time period?

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         1. 95

            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            A small misconception.  I've never seen where any hub, seasonal or not, is exempt from being non-featured and don't think HP ever gave that indication.
            
            You are correct, just as Janderson points out, that there has been considerable effort to take into account the uneven traffic patterns of a seasonal hub, and there have been changes to incorporate that into the program. 
            
            It's that "sufficient traffic during their seasonal time period" that's the key.  If that traffic is high enough it will allow the seasonal hub to slide until the next season.  If not it will still go idle.

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   3. 85

      bravewarriorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      Randy, you can undo the idle thingie in your account.  I did it to mine when they first implemented the strap.  I don't remember if it's in the account section or the profile section, but check it out.

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      1. 85

         bravewarriorposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Then you are having a political issue that I choose to stay out of.

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         1. 59

            Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I assume you mean "edit' it, Bravewarrior?  Nope, I'll move it before I do that ever again.  And yes, the politics here where they treat hubbers unequally really gets my goat.  It seems to be getting worse rather than better.  Thanks for trying to help, though.  I appreciate the thought! 

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         2. 0

            summerberrieposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            bravewarrior- I might be confused here so maybe someone can help.
            
            I thought by selecting the feature you are talking about just allows the "idled" content to show up on your profile page  along with  the  featured content.
            
            I've heard some hubbers wonder why some of us hubbers do not just tweak idled hubs and be done with it. These are my reasons:
            
            Non-featured hubs are really hubs that HP has put a no-index tag on. When you 'edit" it, your hub goes back into MTurk for review before getting the no=index tag back off (featured again) after two months and the hub does not gain traffic then the process begins again. I don't think this is a healthy process to put hubs through because (and I may  be wrong)
            1) I'm not sure this is the proper use of the no=index tag. I think the no index tag was meant to provide websites with the ability to "hide" private information from the public where the no-index tag would stay for a long duration. Not the no-idex, index, no-index tag placed in a cyclic fashion.
            2). You lose backlinks
            3). You mess around with Google crawls-you are telling Google to hide your hub, show your hub, hide your hub, and some have reported it has taken several weeks to get Google to re-index the hub.
            
            I just don't like this process going on with my hubs. So I choose to keep them idle- at least until maybe HP re-considers the  two month window for hubs to gain traffic.

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   4. 84

      Denmarkguyposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I do have one seasonal hub I've been preemptively pondering how I am going to keep "alive" till next fall... considered rewriting it for July 4th, or "family gatherings" or something along those lines.
      
      What would be NICE would be if users could voluntarily "suspend" seasonal hubs and keep them in a state of "frozen animation" so to speak, and then "reactivate" them at a relevant time... with exactly the same rank/hubscore they had at the moment of suspension. I'd be ALL OVER that... so it doesn't get seen for 9 months, but I don't have to worry about endless "busy work gardening" on a hub that has NO CHANCE of being active "out of season."

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2. 0

   summerberrieposted 11 years ago

   Simone,
   Thanks for the reply.
   
   derek left the information back in a thread where he invited authors to post links to any of their hubs which were exclusives that went idle. I left about 5 links to mine that fit the criteria he was looking for. He said they passed the QAP but lacked enough traffic (they were all seasonal hubs). He mentioned there is a "seasonal threshold" for traffic to carry them through the non season in order for them to remain featured in the off season when they are not gaining views.
   
   Thank you for looking into the issue of the two months time frame and extending it for new hubs.
   
   No, I do not think Simone would make a good name for an evil character    
   I think most writers would fall into the category of free thinkers and non-conformist.
   I have put spending hours towards writing 'stellar" hubs on the back burner until some of HP issues are solved. It is encouraging to hear some of these issues are being worked through.
   
   Once HP has ironed through these "kinks", I will spend more of my time writing. In the mean time,
   I've enjoyed commenting on Randy's hub. It is like being in the break room with fellow employees reading all the new stuff administration has posted on the bulletin board.
   
   When the whistle blows, I'll get back to work.

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3. 95

   SmartAndFunposted 11 years ago

   I would love to have a seasonal hub with 4000 views. That sounds like great success to me.
   
   Trying to figure out how this idling thing works is very bewildering. In comparison to Randy's hub with 4000 views, one of my seasonal hubs is about 14 months old and in all that time has had a total of 90 views, yet it has not been idled -- yet. (I guess I shouldn't be calling attention to it; surely it will be idled now.)

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   1. 59

      Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      This is what I am ticked off about, S&F.  I'll bet there are plenty of people wondering what all the fuss is about when their low traffic doesn't cause their hubs to be idled.  I'd like to hear the real explanation from TPTB why there is such a difference between Hubber to Hubber.  This just isn't right and is not fair for some to be treated in this manner.

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4. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

   What seems fishy is my wife has 3 accounts and her hubs don't get near the views I do, but none of her hubs are idled.  It seems many others experience the same thing.  There is not fair play with this silly program as I've had several hubs lately with over 1000 views and high scores being idled.  I've heard others say they haven't had any hubs idled even though they get hardly any views at all.  Some thing is certainly not right with this system!

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5. 65

   2uesdayposted 11 years ago

   There is more than this somewhere I think but this is the reference I can find:
   
   95Paul Edmondsonposted 5 months ago
   UNINVITED WRITER WROTE:
   Most of the hubs I have marked that way are Christmas hubs that will be starting to build up traffic again in the next few weeks. If they are not going to be searchable on Google I may as well delete them all.
   
   @inivited Writer - There are allowances for seasonal Hubs (see the LC entry).  If you have an example of an Xmas Hub that you think should be doing well this season, please post a URL for me to take a look at.
   
   It's also very easy to keep them indexed with a bit of freshening up.
   
   I'd love to see examples for our engineers to look at.
   
   BTW - Sorry, I cannot get it to appear here as it does in the place it originally appeared. -
   
   http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/102577

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6. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

   Perhaps I need to write a hub asking people what the stats of their idled hubs are.  I believe we would all see that some people's hubs are not being treated the same as others.  I'd like to know why, wouldn't everybody?

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7. 93

   habeeposted 11 years ago

   I've had my share of idled hubs. A few were written when I was a complete newbie and didn't know anything about SEO and such. Those hubs were too short anyway, and they needed tweaking. BUT...I've also had good hubs idled - more than sufficient length, good info, original photos, videos, etc. When an exlusive gets idled, I find it especially frustrating.
   
   Randy, in answer to your original question, you should delete the hub and give it to a fellow hubber. I think habee would be a good choice!

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   1. 95

      wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      habee, I gave up on exclusive titles long ago.  I'll look at the suggestions, but will not use them - I've yet to see one that the keyword tool says is any good.
      
      Apparently, older hubs that get idled are usually because of traffic, not what you and I would call quality.  It's possible, of course, that it could have hit the QAP and been idled as a result, but unlikely at this point.

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         habeeposted 11 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, Wildman, I haven't written any exclusives lately, either.

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         1. 95

            wildernessposted 11 years agoin reply to this

            I wrote 10 early on, in August.  And now, 6 months later, only 3 have double digit traffic for the week.  They can't even get 2 per day.  Sad, and I don't think they'll be there much longer.

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   2. 59

      Randy Godwinposted 11 years agoin reply to this

      I think at this point I'm going to delete all of them, even those which are getting traffic.  I'm weary of dealing with these people.  Let 'em try and make money off of my fiction.  I hope they get as tired of it as I am of theirs.

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8. 59

   Randy Godwinposted 11 years ago

   WD Curry was correct.  It's better to pick up cans and bottles by the road than to have to deal with these people.  The frustration isn't worth it anymore.

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