The constitution and conservative hypocrisy.

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   Josakposted 10 years ago

   Conservatives love the constitution, they believe our founding fathers were wise men who are still right hundreds of years later... except when they don't. A recent survey found 55% of Republicans want to change the constitution to make Christianity the official state religion.
   
   If this country were made up of just Republicans it would democratically be a theocracy at state level... thank any deity you like for liberals.
   
   http://www.forbes.com/sites/rickungar/2 … on-of-usa/

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      Lie Detectorposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Or we could thank the republican speaker of the house.
      
      "While a resolution that would have cleared the way for an official state religion in North Carolina was quickly pulled from consideration by the state’s Republican Speaker of the House,"

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         Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah after being suggested by them
         
         They took it down because the Supreme Court said it was unconstitutional.
         
         But that was not what I wrote about i wrote about the polling of Republicans at a national level.

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            Lie Detectorposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Where did they get the 55% number from? I looked at the poll questions and don't see it, could you link me to it?

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               Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Yup sorry, forgot to post the link, it's now in the OP.

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                  Lie Detectorposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  I got that, I don't know how they get the 55% number, there is no direct question so where did it come from?

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                     Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     Here:  http://big.assets.huffingtonpost.com/ta … 042013.pdf
                     
                     
                     Omnibus Poll
                     April 03 - 04, 2013
                     2. Establishing Christianity as state religion?
                     
                     Republicans: 55% in favor, 33% opposed.

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                        Lie Detectorposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        Ok, the next question asks if they are constitutionally able to do it and 61% of republicans say no. Adding strongly favor and favor you get 55% I guess that means something but not enough to get me excited.

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                           Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           precisely my point, they know it is unconstitutional but the majority want to do it anyway.

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                              Lie Detectorposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              I think its gonna be ok, no need to worry.

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                                 Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yeah me too, thankfully Republicans are not equivalent to the American population, it's a very good thing.

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                              Reality Bytesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Amending the Constitution is not unconstitutional?

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                                 Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 No it isn't but that was not the point, conservatives claim to love the constitution but eon this issue central issue either want to avoid it or change it. Not o mention the horror of the fact they support a state religion and thus a theocracy.

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                                    Reality Bytesposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    I would not support it, in fact I would oppose it with every fiber of my being.  They do have a right to try though!

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      Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      No, thank the constitution for protecting us from all politicians.  Your whole statement is based on one unknown poll.  The liberals would change the constitution to erode gun rights, and that's based on many well known polls.

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         AJReissigposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         You make a good point here.  I don't trust either party, but from my standpoint they aren't all that different.  The Republican party is the big government party who is pro-big business, pro-military, anti-gay mariage.  The Democrat party is the big government party of pro-lawyers, pro-welfare state, and anti-individual achievement.  Both parties are anti-individual rights, and pick and choose when to defend or disregard rights.
         
         Josak, I think you are reading way too much into this pole.  The republican and democrat parties do enough offensive stuff without trying to make something out of nothing.

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            Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Actually I think polling people is very important and so are the results it gives us a sense of what each group would do if the country was actually theirs to do what they wish with, it ****** me off no end that many democrats would restrict gun rights beyond just background checks and conservatives are quite right to point that out, if anyone has a poll on the issue I would be interested in seeing it, it's absolutely crucial for us to know what each group and hence each party would do if we ever gave them control of all the houses and executive and safe re-election.

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               Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Would you like to see some Arizona polls on illegal immigration?

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                  Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Would you like to see some national polls on the Amnesty? How does around 70% approval strike you?

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         Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Unknown poll? I have referenced it repeatedly and it is actually two.

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            Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Because you reference a poll or two, that makes it known and important?

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               Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               The "knowness" of polls is not how their importance is measured surely, what is important si their content and their validity.

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   AJReissigposted 10 years ago

   There is a big difference between conservative and republican;  it is like saying all democrats are socialists. 
   There is plenty of hypocrisy to go around.  You have members of the Republican Party who claim to be conservative, and yet vote for big government programs.  Then we have the liberals who claim to be all about free speech... until someone says something they disagree with.  Then we get legislation designed to limit free speech (AKA the fairness doctrine), or we get a smear campaign to silence those they disagree with.
   I guess it's a good thing the libertarians are around to point out the hypocrisy of both parties.

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I will grant you that, I should have said Republicans instead of conservatives, my bad.

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   JaxsonRaineposted 10 years ago

   Josak, wanting to amend the Constitution doesn't mean you are a hypocrite if you think the Constitution is important. From the very beginning the founders knew that changes would be necessary, which is why they set it up so it could be amended.
   
   No hypocrisy.
   
   Also, federal vs. state powers... they have changed since the beginning, and the 1st amendment states that Congress shall make no law, not that a state shall make no law.

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      Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Are you defending creating a state religion?
      
      Also Marbury vs Madison established federal judicial review. It has never been successfully challenged so yes the 1st Amendment applies.
      
      I don't understand how you can claim to love the constitutional and the wisdom of the founding fathers then seek to change one of it's most fundamental aspects, possibly the most fundamental. That is the hypocrisy I am not even challenging the legality (it would never get past the Supreme court).

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         JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I'm saying that a restriction on what Congress can do is not a restriction on what state legislators can do.
         
         If the founders had wanted no established religions at all, they would have specified, but like I said, there was disagreement as to the authority of federal vs states.
         
         But tell me, what part of the Constitution says that a state can't make a state religion?

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            Josakposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Answered above.

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         JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Like I said, things change. If you want to talk about loving what the founders set up, you have to accept both sides of the coin.
         
         Originally, a state religion would not have been ruled unconstitutional.

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            Zelkiiroposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            And then the 1st Amendment showed up pretty damn quick to shut down that dangerous line of thought.

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               JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               The 1st amendment didn't apply to states. It was a restriction on CONGRESS.

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   maxoxam41posted 10 years ago

   It means that if American had to be republican, it would become Saudi Arabia. What an example!

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   JaxsonRaineposted 10 years ago

   Polls don't necessarily mean what people would do.
   
   For instance... 90% of people support background checks on all gun purchases. Right?
   
   Well, no. Not really. That's what they say when asked that question, but what do they say when they are asked about different types of gun purchases?
   
   90% support background checks at stores and gun shows.
   70% support background checks on private purchases.
   50% support background checks when selling to friends and family.
   
   The big problem with polls is that people are uninformed, often don't really care about the subject, and just make a knee-jerk reaction.
   
   After the UBC bill failed, polls showed that the majority of Americans were glad that it failed.
   
   People are irrational, inconsistent, emotional, etc... polls don't equal what people would really do.

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      AJReissigposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      There are a lot of factors that weigh into the results.  Sample size, demographics, etc. all have a huge impact.  The wording of the question has a lot to do with it as well.  That is why I tend to ignore polls, because the pollster can (very easily) create a poll that will support his viewpoint, and not really give any indication of the views of a population.

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      Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Liberals claim that many politicians adjust their position on gun control and background checks to garner votes.  They are frustrated that so many conservatives and quite a few democrats voted against such regulations.  Then, these same democrats claim that the vast majority of Americans want these measures.  The two statements conflict.  It is true that many politicians follow polls and adjust their opinions to garner votes.  IF these were consistent, accurate poll results, I'd expect many, many more politicians to mirror these results with their vote.  IF the vast majority of Americans believe in additional gun regulation, it is highly likely that it would pass.  Thus, I doubt the accuracy of these polls.  Politicians are politicians, and to me, they are the measure of how accurate these polls are.

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         JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         The polls were accurate. There was no doubt. Dozens, and dozens of scientific polls, all showing the same 82-92%.
         
         The problem isn't the polls, it's the people. Simple as that, the populace is, largely, stupid.(Think Men in Black, a person is smart, but people are panicky and stupid)

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            Education Answerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            The poll results are transient at best.  They fluctuate and are dependent on when they were taken.  If they are taken right after a tragedy, they run high.  Liberals like to talk about the poll results at their peak.  Politicians know that these poll numbers are not consistent.

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               JaxsonRaineposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Like I said, people are stupid.
               
               The polls do their job, the fault lies with the interpretation of the data.

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