Why do Some Believers are Bad People?

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   jainismusposted 10 years ago

   Why do a large number of religious people who believe in God behave like evils? Why they are greedy, jealous, haters, angry and even criminals?

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      Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      While not all religious people are bad some are. There may be a few reasons for this.
      
      1. Human nature.
      2. They don't really believe in an afterlife, they just pretend they do.
      3. Sometimes biblical ethics can stunt moral/ethical maturity which leaves them at the "avoid punishment" phase rather than maturing to understand why one shouldn't harm others.
      
      Sometimes I believe it's a combination of all of the above. One of the first things we are taught about God is that he is always watching and always judging (same as with Santa). But what happens if in the back of ones mind one starts to question if God exist. One suddenly realizes no one is watching or judging and if they are left with moral maturity they do anything they want.
      
      IMHO

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         Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Rad, this is a great answer...and I think there is a lot if truth to it.  Sadly, many believers will be offended by it just because it came from an atheist, but it's really nothing more than plain, unvarnished truth.

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            Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            I know, but I did put a disclaimer in the first sentence as to not offend everyone. BTW, I try not to offend, but these conversations can't happen without it.

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               Motown2Chitownposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               The minute someone hears an opinion from a person who holds a different fundamental view of life than they do, they are prepared to fight...even when they agree.  We always run into it in religious discussions.  I've run into it as regards politics as well, especially here...and it works both ways.  Sometimes just staying that you disagree with someone is enough for them to label you the " other."

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      A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      That is what scriptures teaches it's followers. You'll find that those who follow their scriptures closely behave as you describe, while those who say they are religious but usually don't follow scriptures behave much better. You'll find ample examples of that right here on these forums.

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   Ericdierkerposted 10 years ago

   I can speak very directly for me. Perhaps that will help understand others. I am just a bad man sometimes. I do apologize. I try not to be a hypocrite. But I know that I am one at times.
   
   To be really frank, I am one who tries really hard not to be a bad man. But I still fail. I have both moral maturity (as Rad Man speaks of) and I suppose I have some fear to motivate me. Mostly I try to do good from a selfish point of view. It makes me feel better than doing bad.
   
   I simply have no excuse for acting poorly toward my fellow man.
   
   The easiest thing for me to say would be that I am born a sinner and so it is natural that I do bad and only through God's Grace that I overcome that. And even if I somewhat believe that I cannot rest on that idea. It sounds like an excuse and almost a license to act badly.
   
   Here is some good news. As I mature I truly believe that I am being bad less of the time. Mostly as Rad Man points out that is because I am getting better at discerning right and wrong and growing in discipline to conform to the goal.
   
   Here is a very hard part: Let he who is without sin cast the first stone. I have to try to rebuke evil but it is very hard when you know that you in fact also do evil.
   
   I hope that this gives some insight. And I hope that I make it clear that there is no excuses and no real reason as a whole. I swear that I really try not to do harm, but I still do.
   Here is some good and bad news. I am a teacher and preacher. The bad news is when people see me act poorly then it reflects on Christians much more severely. The good part about that is that it allows others to see that we are after progress and not perfection.

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      A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      No, the bad part is that you are a preacher, which is what shows you to not only be a hypocrite, but shows that you are spreading the bad things that religions teach.
      
      Just stop preaching and all will be good with yourself and everyone else around you.

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         Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         ATM I never preach at you. You are my very sensitive little atheist teddy bear.

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            A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            But, you are a self-professed preacher, and if you ever have to wonder whatever bad things you believe are inherent of you, that is first and foremost.

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               Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               As often is the case your cryptic response leaves nothing to even think about.

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                  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Or, more likely, you will just go on preaching, pissing everyone off as a result.

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                     Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                     ATM have you ever played golf or gone fishing with a doctor? Even though he did not give you a medical opinion, Did you cuss him the whole time for being a doctor?
                     Probably not because no doctor would invite you. See I am being harsh for your own good.

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                        A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                        You are presenting a false scenario, doctors are not preachers who spread the gospel regardless if people don't want to hear it. Being a preacher is a completely selfish act, it has nothing to do with anyone else but the preacher.

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                           Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           You need to learn this phrase, "In my opinion..."

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                              A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Do you actually have anything of value to add or are you just trolling again?

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                                 Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 I meant it in all sincerity.

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                                    A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    No, you didn't.

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                                       Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes, I did. Your turn.

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                              Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              Beth if that was not directed at me --- it should have been. I take heed from you.

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                                 Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 It is good advise for all of us, dont you think?

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                                    A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    I don't need your advice considering you believe I'll roast in hell simply because I don't share your irrational beliefs.

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                                       Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       If you were currently on fire and I said I thought you should put the fire out, would accept that advice?

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                                          A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                          I am not on fire and if I were, I would obviously know it.
                                          
                                          But hey, rather than trying to put me out, you'll stand there offering your sage advice, yes?

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                                             Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                             ATM, if you were on fire, I would do every thing in my power to save you.

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                                                A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                Which makes your previous statement of offering advice completely irrelevant, yes?

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                                                   Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                   You've lost the plot.

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                                                      A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                      You didn't offer one to begin with.

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                                                         Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                         The Plot:
                                                         
                                                         A surely Atheist, retired from a teaching career, (most likely PE and science) roamed the threads of a writing forum of which he did not write for. He looked for adversaries to argue with. Most the time he searched for Christians, as the idea of debunking religion was his favorite pass time, but he was willing to settle for any adversary really whether it had to do with cooking oil or favorite types of soil.
                                                         
                                                         One day along came a silly Christian. She liked to joke and tease and laugh a lot. This really bothered the surely Atheist and he made it almost a daily task to use his words to pop her joy like a pin to a balloon. Only the more he tried, the more she seemed to accept his surely ways and even at times she liked the ornery fellah. When she said "black", she always expected his "white" response and was quick to make light of it, much to his great displeasure.
                                                         
                                                         One day they met in real life at... Target, let's say. She recognized him by his blue hue. He had leaned too close to an exposed wire and his flannel shirt instantly caught on fire. He looked up for help as he was engulfed before he could even remove the shirt. The girl grabbed a gallon of water from a nearby display and poured it on the angry Atheist. He wasn't hurt at all, though still quite shaken. He thanked the girl, not realizing she was a Christian. She said "You're welcome and God bless you." At that, he began to seethe... how was it possible that a believer had come to his rescue?! He cursed at her and stormed off, never realizing it was his own HP's adversary. The girl said a prayer for the man and got in her car and drove home. He would never know that his adversary actually did care for him.

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                                                            A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                            Sorry, but I have plenty of hubs here, just not under this userid. Deal with it.
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            Did you feel compelled to make up yet another lie?
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            The silly Christian tells others they need to be saved by Jesus and when they tell her they don't need to be saved by Jesus, she tells them they'll roast in hell and then complains they are nasty to her.
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            Laughing hysterically at your irrational beliefs is the same as being bothered?
                                                            
                                                            Me being bothered --->
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            Sorry, if you feel your fabrications and irrational beliefs are anything but connected to reality and are continually pointed out as such, not just by me, but many others, too.
                                                            
                                                            My displeasure --->
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            
                                                            Really? At first, you said you were going to offer your advice and let me know I was on fire. Funny, how you always change your story when the flaws are pointed out, just like this story.

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                                                               Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                               You wrote a story with me in it once... should I have called you a liar for writing fiction?
                                                               
                                                               Im glad you enjoyed it.

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                                                                  A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                                  Sorry, but I have never written a story about you.

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                                                                     Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                                     I was the main character, it was fiction... Though your intentions might have been only using my name repetitively to make a point... call it what you want. I have just returned the favor.

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                                                                        Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                                        I suspect that's wishful thinking.

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                                                                           Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                                           I guess you missed it.

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                                                                        A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                                        No, YOU were not the main character.

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                                                                           Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                                           where is that thread huh?

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                                                                              Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                                              So funny, Beth trying to convince ATM that she is the centre of his universe. More wishful thinking.

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                                                            A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                                            If you're going to insult people, you should really learn how to spell the insults.
                                                            
                                                            Surly.
                                                            
                                                            And, don't call me Shirley.
                                                            
                                                            And, regardless that you believe you are the main character of my story, I never insulted that person as you are doing in this story.
                                                            
                                                              ---> <---

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                                    Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    IMHO yes.

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                              Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              As do you. I've never heard you use it.

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                                 Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 lol. I use it all the time. But not constantly. Maybe I should use it more consistently. We could all throw the word "humble" in there... so it would be like, "You are such a jerk! In my humble opinion." lol

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                                    Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    Perhaps you should start with…
                                    
                                    "In my humble opinion there is a God"

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                                       A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       Or maybe, "In my humble opinion, there might be a God, but I have absolutely no evidence whatsoever to say such a thing other than through a book written by men centuries ago that is consistent with other myths and superstitions."

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                                       Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       IMHO ATM has no God.

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                                          A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                          No one does. We have only preachers who keep the myth of gods alive, much to the detriment of us all.

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                                       Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       I have no doubts... as ATM said, deal with it.

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                                          Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                          Perhaps then you should think twice about giving other instruction that you won't follow yourself. IMHO.

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                                 Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                 In my opinion Rad Man has a lot to offer.

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                                    Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    No one asked you, in my humble opinion. lol

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                                       Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       Fantastic --- my gut is splitting. Thanks Beth.

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                                    Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                    Thanks Eric. I read all of your posts and find you refreshing relative to some of the others.

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                                       Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                                       Funny none of my child hood friends were my color!
                                       Good to call you friend. Check out my life:
                                       <iframe width="640" height="360" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/ym_Awd9uVsA?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

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                           Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                           Really?
                           Your hate just oozes from the words you write. I think that you answer this question very well by the path I have led you down. Doing bad is not a religious thing. It is just a bad thing that does not trace back to one's religious devotion.
                           You see sometimes us preachers help others to understand, and I admit it is very selfish. I do not debate with you to convert you, but rather so that others can see our differences.
                           God Bless you ATM.

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                              A Troubled Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                              [
                              
                              Yes, I understand believers claim others who don't want to hear the gospel being preached hates them. It is a lame excuse and one most often used when the believer has nothing to say.
                              
                              
                              
                              You have not led me down any path.
                              
                              
                              
                              Preaching the gospel is a bad thing.
                              
                              
                              
                              No, you do not help others understand anything, you only preach because it is a selfish act.
                              
                              
                              
                              Yes, others can see the differences.
                              
                              I do not want your God's blessings, thank you very much.

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      Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      The problem is with the word sin. I don't think it's a valid representation of wether one is a good person or not. I think that if we all focused on being better people and not worrying so much about church or work on Sunday we'd have a better place. So what if I work on Sunday, perhaps I take Saturday off instead. These type of sins are completely meaningless and serve only to distract from the good that people do. Example, I just had a phone call from a very valid charity. She asked me if I'd go door to door in my area and ask for donations. I asked her if she was volunteering her time and she eventually replied no. So she wants me to go door to door to pay her salary. I wonder if she is at church on Sunday morning.

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         Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Somewhere there is a Father Sarducci bit on big sin and little sin. Too Too funny.
         That is just too weird --- someone getting paid to go door to door. Oh well I will still get them lemonade and a seat in the shade.

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            Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            No no no. She wanted me to volunteer my time to ask others for money to pay her salary.

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               wildernessposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Well, yes.  How else can she justify her time spent asking people to beg if they don't produce money to pay her to ask people to beg?
               
               Sadly, that is the way of most charities.  And why I still look for the red buckets with a bell ringing this time of year.

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               Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               I am sorry but now that really cracks me up. I know I should be praying for her, but that one is just to silly.
               OTOH I think Mary Magdeline gives some precedent for such behavior. Just saying ;-)

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         MizBejabbersposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Rad, i think that sin is in the eye of the beholder. As long as a person follows the 10 commandments he or she won't be harming his fellow man. Whether he works on Sunday or goes dancing on Saturday night is only sinning in the eyes of certain beholders, of which one is predisposed to ignore. By the way the 10 commandments didn't originate in the bible, despite the story of Moses, so one doesn't have to be a Christian to follow them.

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            Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Actually, sin is taught, so the eye of the beholder stuff is irrelevant. It a means to control people a few thousand years ago. We have laws in place now, none of them have anything to do with working on Sunday.

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               Ericdierkerposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               Oops Rad Man -- many laws have to do with working on Sunday. Most Unions have contracts regarding same. Many states and counties still prohibit booze sales for much or part of Sunday.
               (I do not know exactly how the NFL deals with it) Last I checked --- very few government offices or services are open or available on Sunday. Guess what Sunday is a day off in Communist Vietnam.

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                  Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure, but go get gas or go out to eat. That's where all the part timers are. There is alway someone working or else most crimes would happen on Sunday or no cops would be on duty. Do we tell the police they are sinful for saving our lives on a Sunday? Are there no Communist Vietnamese police on duty on Sunday? Do the hospitals shut down on Sunday and leave all the emergencies and patients waiting for Monday?

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      Beth37posted 10 years agoin reply to this

      What a good answer Eric.

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