Guilt-ridden Religiosity versus Hopeful Human Endeavour

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   jonnycomelatelyposted 10 years ago

   Looking around me at our modern world, I see lots and lots of examples where human endeavour has succeeded in providing me/us with gifts.
   In motor and electrical mechanics, there has been so much research and innovation, very complex and interconnecting, that makes yours and my life in this world exciting and livable. 
   Conversely, some of that resulting technology has acquired two edges like the proverbial sword.  But that is another topic, maybe expanded at a later date.  For now let's concentrate on the positive and inspirational.
   Just think of the motor car. or you might want to think of some other sophisticated item you use frequently in your every-day life.
   Over the past 110 years, you can think of the back-yard playing with oil, steam, bits of metal, pieces of wire, magnets, sparks, wheels, levers.   Someone came up with the ability to produce a small (or dangerously big!) explosion.  They, or someone else, took this initial experiment and worked to control the explosion and harness it's working potential.   Inquisitiveness and persistence brought about a working model and it was put on display for others to see and play with.  Science was added to the experimental phase.  It became University stuff, seriously researched, on very strict disciplinary principles.  Over time, it evolved into the wonderfully efficient motion machine we use so non-nonchalantly today.
   Inside that car, or plane, or computer, which has come through a similar evolutionary process, it is very complex.  It came about because of humanity's enterprise.
   I get a sense of awe from this.  Do you? 
   Out of religious argument I get depressed, drawn down into boring, repetitive, nonsensical bickering, that does not serve to advance our survival or even our enjoyment of daily life.
   So I shall commence looking for the awesome Hubs in HubPages.  If I find none, you might not see me around very much.  That would be a pity, as far as I am concerned, because I like some of you guys here that share your joy and your good sense.

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      Deepes Mindposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I've also had feelings similar to yours. HP is not what I initially thought it was going to be. And floating into the forums, I was looking for open discussion about religion in an effort to learn more about different people and how they apply their beliefs. Instead, I got jeered by atheists for my beliefs (until I was able to clarify my position) and attacked by fellow Christians for the fact that I apply the bible in my approach to others and the fact that I try to respect everyone. I've been accused of not being Christian because of my friendships and polite approach to atheists. The forum discussions quickly devolve into bickering matches. Not sure I have it in me these days.

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         jonnycomelatelyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Two persons here, Deepes  Mind and Moonfroth, for whom I have very great respect ---- not just because we agree with each other, but because when we disagree, there is very obviously some new point of view coming out of it, something to be considered, chewed over, before making further comment.
         
         I feel that within HP here and in other hubs, there are some very lonely and distraught individuals, who need to express themselves one way or another.  I have been one such person and continue to have those needs. 
         
         Where people have supported me, I am eternally grateful and only ask that we try to see the deeper needs of those who are unable to express themselves without causing strife.
         
         For me, the positives that can arise out of those needs are what make life worthwhile.  Let's use our brains, without neglecting our hearts!

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         EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         I haven't seen one single atheist jeer at you, but I've seen plenty who disagree with your beliefs and some of the reasons you felt clarified your position. I've seen the arguments get heated, but not too much.
         
         Like most others here, you 'floated' into the forums. And, like any writer would do, read some of the threads in the religion forums to see what kind of open discussions are going on. Surely, you must have learned quickly how different people apply their beliefs and how atheists question and criticize those beliefs. Surely, you didn't start posting here not knowing you might get similarly questioned and criticized for your beliefs?
         
         
         
         You would have seen that one too had you read some threads here first. I don't think it's a valid reason to complain about that treatment especially if one doesn't read the threads first.
         
         
         
         That is a quality you exhibit that cause many here to offer their respect to you.
         
         
         
         And yet, you are one of the very few here who actually understand and employ the teachings of Christ. How many Christians would openly admit to that?

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      EncephaloiDeadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      Absolutely. Well said.
      
      
      
      On the contrary, Jonny, the arguments here DO serve to advance survival and our enjoyment of daily life. Unlike never before, we are able to communicate with each other at any time our ideas, problems and solutions. Everyone can read them and understand something new almost instantaneously, our knowledge is being shared and we are learning at an alarming rate. This will serve to accomplish replacing beliefs with facts, which is a good thing.

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      Disappearingheadposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      To be honest I kind of got bored with the raison d'être of Hubpages - writing hubs. Initially it helped me to form and express ideas and i gained much from the research. However, i began to wonder what the point was; was it just about stroking intellectual egos? Who gave a stuff about what I was going to write anyway?
      
      I've learnt far more about people and alternative views in forumland than I would have in a lifetime of writing hubs. But I think forumland has eroded in the last three years as there isn't the number or broad mix of contributors that there once was. Still I do enjoy the cut and thrust of debate and I fail to understand how people can get upset by others here; its not the real world after all; we all have real friends and families outside of here.
      
      I like you Jonny and it would be a shame if you disappeared. You are an intelligent contributor and you have made me stop and think on more than one occasion.

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      MysticMoonlightposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I often find the statements and thoughts that you share here intriguing and genuine, jonny. I do understand your disenchantment with HubPages as it is certainly a lot of 'round and 'round. I've found myself somewhat let down by it's monotony as well. That being said, I do hope you stick around as I can honestly say that you are one of the few that often makes real, honest, thought provoking contributions here.

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         jonnycomelatelyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks to everyone who has contributed so far.   
         
         It has always been a habit of mine, sometimes a bit naughty, to 'stir the pot,' occasionally.  For example, when doing my Medical Radiography course, back in the early 1960s, just before we broke for lunch, I would go to the black board and write something on there that I knew dam well had an error in it.
         
         Someone would see what I had written and immediately come up behind me and start arguing the case.  Others would quickly join him.   I would step to the back, wait for a few moments, then sneak off to have my lunch.
         
         Guess what!  One or two would still be there when I came back from lunch.   I have changed a bit..... but not much....lol.

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            bBereanposted 10 years agoin reply to this

            Excuse me sir, is this your chalk?

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               jonnycomelatelyposted 10 years agoin reply to this

               

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                  moonfrothposted 10 years agoin reply to this

                  i've got a lot of hard-drivin', hard-drinkin', hard-workin' , hard-livin' Canadian woodsmen neighbors who'd just call you a flat-out shit-disturber, Jonny!  Thank gawd.......  If you leave HP, just tell us where you're going, because you WILL have to find another place for discourse.  Check out yuku.com.
                  love ya Baby!.....Moon

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      Rad Manposted 10 years agoin reply to this

      I agree and disagree. While I agree that are many fascinating things in this universe and human innovation and how we exchange them is interesting so is the religious debates to me. I think it puts us in perspective. We can put men in space and bring them home, we can send ships out of our solar system, yet we can be deluded by our fears and imaginations.
      
      It would be a shame to see you go, but we do what we need. I would miss you. Before you go come find me on Facebook please. Send me an email and I'll send you my contact information.

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   moonfrothposted 10 years ago

   JONNY--When I see a Hub from you, or about 8 others, I open them.  Your brains work.  Your hearts feel.  You write well.  You stimulate me to refreshing new levels of understanding, because you look around at your world, see beauty and utility and progress and humour and controversy and hope and manifest the skill and care to get it from your head to mine.  Reading you is time totally well-spent.  And your fans, for the most part, THINK too.  I no longer even visit the so-called religious and philosophy sites, because most posters in the former category just need to rant and wouldn't know how to deal with an idea if it attacked them from a tall tree; and most posters in the latter category think "opinion" is Philosophy and tutoring them is just too bloody tedious to hold my interest.  Arrogant?  Goddamn right.  In fact, I spend so little time on Hp now, that i think I'll pull my stuff and shut it down.  Three years ago, the people were interesting and stimulating, the topics thoughtful and sometimes even unusual.  No more.  So you are not alone in your disenchantment with HP, my good friend.

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