What is Belief ? Can we replace them & Create a New One?

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   SharmaRoshanposted 9 years ago

   Belief is to believe in something. It can be true or false. But we believe, out of trust, faith and sometimes because the world believes in it.
   
   Beliefs are the old thoughts, that sometimes you hang on in your life for generations. You have the power to make your own beliefs.
   
   There are two types of beliefs. The first one is out of your personal experience, and the second is the borrowed one from the parents, ancestors,culture, religion, society, friends and sometimes from the environment.
   
   

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      manatita44posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Everything changes with Consciousness. Sure enough tradition, culture, ethnicity ... all  play a part.
      
      The Yogi sees all things from the standpoint of Consciousness. I grew up in Christianity. One day in September, 1982, I read a book and was totally transformed. It is not that my belief changed. Transformation is a process of moving from the old into the new. Like a baby, the old serves its purpose, and now, as a man, the role simply alters only in the sense of progress, of moving forward, deeper, higher.
      
      The whole of life is a journey, and people are where they are at any given moment. It is a precise plan and not haphazard, and yet, ever-transcending at the same time. New beliefs are not created, one simply moves further along in the journey of life, as dictated from within. Om Shanti!

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         SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Om Shanti

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      cjhunsingerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      A difficult question, but one worth the attempt.
      Is it that we believe in something in order to give purpose to our lives, as the history of that belief has allegedly done? Is this the truth in deity beliefs, as the claims here speak to peace, contentment and all those positive attributes of living. Too, if they do not work while one is alive, then, most assuredly, they will work after one dies. That is the unsupported claim.
      Should we be content with beliefs,  as opposed to a knowledge of something. We believed that the earth was the  center of the universe. We now know that it is not. We believed that a god created the universe on October 23. 4004 BCE. Now we know that to be false. It is true that even science  is wrong, but is it not more reasonable to begin with objectivity, as  opposed to a subjective and emotional  want of purpose that is founded on a fear of what we do not know and a guilt for being alive?.
      Is it reasonable to believe in that, which cannot  be  objectively analyzed, utilizing that, our mind, which is possessed by no other animal? Belief without a reasoned foundation, is no less, the  lemming and  the cliff.
      At what point because we are  reasoning beings, do we begin to reason that, which is and that which awaits  to be found. Do we continue to accept beliefs based on the emotions of fear and an unwarranted sense of  promoted and  exploited guilt?
      One  may believe in a  spouse,  but then, this is based on a  real history of experience with that person and is not  'belief'. Certainly we can point to others such beliefs, as  I believe the sun will rise in the morning, but we  know that the sun  does not rise, the  earth turns. Also such is based upon experience not a faith/trust in an unknown.
      The German people believed in Hitler, Marxists in Marx, the Inquisitors in Christ, Islamists in Islam, all beliefs and all predicated on emotion.
      That I believe that light travels at 186,000 miles per second is not a belief based  on emotion,  but rather an examination of what is 'known' to be true. Such a belief  does not demand that I condemn others, but rather an  invitation  to others to correct  me  through the process of human reason. This is what the human is and should be.

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         SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         You have beautifully raised some beautiful points about beliefs, i.e. opposed to knowledge.
         
         Beliefs are not only based on emotions, but sometimes trust and sometimes out of fear, we believe them.
         
         As a thinking human, we believe something i.e. objective, but at the same time, we are the humans who feels, and live life out of intuition.
         
         It may be wrong, to believe someone out of fear, but at the same time, we believe our loved one's or stranger, because we feel good about them.
         
         The point is not to create a belief out of mere knowledge, or what we see from the eyes. But to go deep down within, to know the mind and emotions, to know the difference between what is Real and what is Fake.
         
         Belief is developed out of trust. Once the trust goes stronger, experience on the path gets stronger, and the belief gets deeply rooted.
         
         The belief about the object demands reasoning and can be proven by science.
         
         But when the person evolves on an individual level, say for e.g. Jesus Christ, shares his belief with others about God. Its not possible to examine such beliefs, out of reasoning, but the person has to go for his personal experience, to know the truth for himself.

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            cjhunsingerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Sharma
            Thank you for the compliments, but I do think we have a difference of thought here.
            You seem to portray Jesus Christ as a measurement of truth, along with the very subjective analysis of personal feelings. Are you equating such with that, which comes by virtue of a reasoned process? If so, truth then is simply a matter of what my feelings tell me it is. In  that case there are 8 billion definitions of truth on the planet and no common denominator. With that there is simply no hope that man will ever achieve a peaceful co-existence, as  my truth will always be greater than yours.

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               SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Thank-you so much for your comments.
               
               We can see this things this way.
               
               I have a feeling, and you have a feeling too. You follow yours and I follow mine.
               
               Buddha followed his path, Christ followed his one, and Muhammad stick to his own.
               
               Three paths and three different truths to reach to the ultimate. All the three are perfect in their own sense.
               
               We all are unique, and an individual being, to attain our higher self, by making a choice of our own path.
               
               Sometimes, it may be possible, that I Meditate like Buddha, because my heart tells me to do that, and some other day, I pray five times Namaz, the way Muhammad had preached.
               
               The point is to reach to the ultimate.
               
               Till I dont understand the entire concept of truth, I should trust something, and whats the best way to trust my inner feelings rather than anything else.
               
               When I understand the truth by myself, who bothers, which way I reached at the top. I have come home, thats all matters.
               
               People are lost in the path, and forget the destination. The destination is the goal, and path can be chosen, that compels our heart.
               
               We should feel good about the path.
               
               Its like climbing a ladder, to reach to the top, and then drop the ladder altogether. The path of life is a ladder, that needs to be drop.
               
               Thanku...

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      tsmogposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      From the understanding I have learned a belief is formed firstly with acceptance. That must occur. Next, is trust followed by faith. One may accept, yet not have trust and faith. When that occurs it is simply acknowledgement. When there is acknowledgement there is lack of belief or no belief. There is acceptance, however trust and faith are of consequence. If there is not acceptance then both acknowledgment and belief cannot occur. It simply is 'not so'. It is then the argument of trust and faith becomes moot. Therefore, both belief or acknowledgment cannot occur.     
      
      That is difficult enough with the material universe. For instance many believe their brakes will stop the car and timely . . . in time. They accept with good faith the brakes work and trust them to stop the car. Why else do people ride your tail on the freeway. Today, most believe the anti-lock brakes means the car will stop every time and in time because the car will not skid. They trust that and have faith in/of that. They believe so to the extent of risking. After all they have stopped every time or slowed enough every time. So, the belief is reinforced. There is acceptance, trust, and faith, therefore a belief is formed.
      
      The person who says they accept their brakes work, but do not place trust they are perfect has a lack of belief. Or, the person who accepts their brakes work, but does not place all their faith they will work every time or always has a lack of belief. A belief is not formed, yet there is acknowledgment.
      
      When the immaterial universe is considered it gets really complicated regarding belief. Again, firstly there must be acceptance that there is an immaterial universe. Else, both belief and acknowledgement is again simply moot.

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         SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Hii, thank-you so much for your response.

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      Slarty O'Brianposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Or you can just forget about belief. You don't need it. You can form educated opinions without demanding through faith that they be true.
      
      Belief is useless and dangerous. You act on your beliefs. But there is only fact and speculation. Do you need to believe or have faith in facts? No. They are facts with or without your belief.
      
      Should you give your faith to speculative ideas? why would you? Belief makes you think something is true even though it may not be. What good is that?
      
      So forget belief and faith. They are at best useless and at worst dangerous. Accept facts, and again, form educated opinions. Be willing to drop that opinion anytime it proves to be wrong. It's hard to do if you invest yourself in what the truth should be, not in finding it,no matter what it turns out to be.
      
      Don't believe anything.

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   ChristinSposted 9 years ago

   Absolutely, beliefs change all the time as we are constantly learning and growing.  Some are more ingrained than others, but routinely we do change our beliefs.
   
   For example, I took a public speaking course that was required. I believed I would be miserable in that course and that I would fail and people would laugh at me.  Imagine my shock when I actually did well .  That changed a deeply held belief I had about myself.
   
   Beliefs grow and change as we grow and change.  A child believes in Santa Clause for example, but as they grow they begin to suspect that belief is false, and eventually come to find out the truth.

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      SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      True. Christin. Right Example Quoted.

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         Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe a belief is an untested idea, when proven, it turns into a knowing, until the the knowing is proven wrong. In most of my cases, rarely.

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            SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Thanku for your comments. Brother.
            
            Belief is both untested idea, & even the tested ideas, add onto our belief system.

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               cjhunsingerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Sharma
               
               Is there are difference in beliefs or is one equal to the other. For example, I believe that the sun will shine tomorrow. This is a belief based on experience of many years and a knowledge of the workings of hydrogen atoms at the core of the sun and the rotation of the earth. That I believe in ghosts because I once saw something that looked like a ghost; is there no difference in these two beliefs? One is based on knowledge and the other on something other than knowledge. Do both carry the same degree of truth or should one be elevated to, factual and the other to something else?

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                  SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Thank-you for your comment.
                  
                  In both the cases, our attention is outside. The sun and the ghost is outside, and we try to figure out the truth, with the mind.
                  
                  Say an e.g. quoted on the sun, is a general belief, based on years experience. Here we don't have to go deep, to figure out the truth. As truth has no implications on our life. Its the same thing like, after day comes night. Either we believe it or not, it remains the same, but theres no point to discuss on this belief, because it doesnt make our individual or collective human life, better or worse.
                  
                  For e.g. Ghost, its an individual belief, and can only be replaced by elevated understanding, or by having more knowledge about that particular subject.
                  
                  My discussion is more pertaining to the beliefs, that comes out of deeper individual experience, that becomes a part of our belief system. But when it comes to truth, the other person can have the same spiritual experience, in higher or lower degree, and it becomes the collective truth or collective belief.
                  
                  We all have "I". "I" is an Imaginative identity created by the mind, to identify with the subtle region, i.e. thoughts and emotions of the body.This is my truth, out of personal experience, and it got registered in my belief system. For this i dont need to have approval from the second person. Yes If you have the same experience, you may confirm it too.
                  
                  When we go deeper, we replace many beliefs, that we consider truth, even with the logical mind.

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                     cjhunsingerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     So what you are saying is that if two out of three people believe that a goat is a cow, it is now a cow? Or is it only a cow to two people and the third person is left with a goat. What if the two people decide to use the democratic process and mandate that a goat is a cow?

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                        SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Goat and Cow are again a general thing. The belief of such things have no impact in the process of humans life.
                        
                        Here you choose to go by any method, the truth is the truth. Sometimes, it takes time, for the human to figure out this truth.
                        
                        Humans believed that the earth was flat. Later when an individual evolved to an extent to figure out the truth, it was revealed by him that the earth is round. We all agreed to it.
                        
                        I am talking about the belief, that comes out of your personal experience, not what you see or observe outside.

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                           cjhunsingerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           If you are happy in that,  am  happy for you.

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                              SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              You are very kind with words. A lot of appreciation for you. But still I am open to clear any point, if the words didn't come correctly to you.

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                           Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Have you experience being in the spirit world and have you come back to tell us about it?

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                              SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Have you experience being in the spirit world and have you come back to tell us about it?
                              
                              You might have heard a quote, " We all are the spiritual beings, having a human experience."
                              
                              I am living this life, and each moment of my life, is filled with the spiritual experience. You are in the same process. Its just that, you might not know about it.

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                                 Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 Experience I understand but what is this "spiritual"?

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                                    SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Experience of the soul

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                                 Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 You only know from experience and if you have been to the spirit world like Heaven or Hell. Only then you would know that you have prepare you whole life in the right Religion and the direction in life.
                                 
                                 If you went to hell and came back then found out the correct answer to heaven was the Jews, I'm sure you would know enough to change your entire aim in life to be Jewish.
                                 
                                 Spiritual is a matter of the Unknowns

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                                    SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Spiritual is a matter of the Unknowns
                                    
                                    Spirituality is a matter of unknown, unless we practice and have first hand experience by our self.

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                                       Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       The mind is not efficient it will see what it wants to see and do what it wants to do

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                           Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Illusion,  hallucination and delusion are also experience and people form belief from such experience.

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                              SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Illusion,  hallucination and delusion are also experience and people form belief from such experience.
                              
                              
                              Then from that day the goat will be called a cow. It was by mandate we decide to call each by a particular name. It was Bombay now it's Mumbai.
                              
                              Very true Jose. People do make belief out of Illusion,  hallucination and delusion. But all this activities are of the mind.
                              
                              I was posted a topic to discuss the experience and develop the belief, i.e. beyond mind.
                              
                              Thank-you so much for your response.

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                                 Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 Belief is the confidence we place in the correctness of a statement and such confidence is gained by experience,  either from inside or outside. But for a given person there is no difference between experience from outside or inside, everything is experienced by the mind and belief also is formed by the mind, nothing beyond.

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                                    SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    Belief is the confidence we place in the correctness of a statement and such confidence is gained by experience,  either from inside or outside. But for a given person there is no difference between experience from outside or inside, everything is experienced by the mind and belief also is formed by the mind, nothing beyond.
                                    
                                    Very true.
                                    
                                    How do you define the Out of body experience, and if the experience is consciously taken to release the negative emotions from the subtle body?
                                    
                                    Can I place it in the category of the experiences of the mind?

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                                       Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       Out of body experience is just an illusion created by the brain. Emotions, chemicals,  special situations and a lot many things can cause it.

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                        Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Then from that day the goat will be caled a cow. It was by mandate we decide to call each by a particular name. It was Bombay now it's Mumbai.

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                           SharmaRoshanposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Out of body experience is just an illusion created by the brain. Emotions, chemicals,  special situations and a lot many things can cause it.
                           
                           Very Gud eve. Brother. You didn't mention the experiences about subtle or astral body ( Derived from plato).
                           
                           What about the experience of the soul? Do we have a Soul, or its again a hallucination of mind.
                           
                           Jose, please think, before you answer, I already have a list of query, piling up.

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                              Jomine Joseposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              Yes Plato thought that, so?
                              We have experiences formed from sensations and from changes in the brain.
                              Soul is a hallucination of mind? may be. But more likely soul is the fallacy of equivocation because no one really mean anything when they say soul. They think something is going to survive after death and call it soul, but that is simply a "thought" as wishful as that of Plato.

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                                 Castlepalomaposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 A soul has a million parts to it, and the spirit world is 99.999999% unknown to everyone. Human at max use 10% of our brain. Collectively we don't even know less than 1% of the crust earth's surface, that is about 6 km. depth before it reaches the 99% unknown fiery mass of the earth.
                                 
                                 People hearsay they have a book that claims to be all of the Universal truth and knowledge are sadly and greatly controlled by those fears of the unknowns. Pastors and Priests hotlines to God are standing BY ready to put you on hold for God's answers.

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