Why do many people think astrology is just prediction and zodiac signs

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   deecoleworldposted 9 years ago

   Why do many people think astrology is just prediction and zodiac signs? Do you know what astrology is? Do you have an idea? Do you believe in it? No?? Yes??

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      EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Please explain exactly how astrology works? Thank you in advance.

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         deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         It's very complex if you are interested, look at some of my hubs!!!!!

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            EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            I saw nothing complex at all about astrology in your hubs, mostly just nonsensical mumbo jumbo and vague generalizations. Sure looks like mythology.

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   janesixposted 9 years ago

   Because that's what it is. Right?

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      deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      I am not understanding what you are saying?

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         janesixposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I was answering the question. The reason many people believe astrology is just prediction based on planetary position is because that's what astrology is. What is it you don't understand?
         
         I've been reading your posts on astrology, and you have yet to answer "How does it work?"
         
         If no one can answer that, then it is just superstition.

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            deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            @janesix: A lot of this doesn't make sense to you, because you simply to not understand what I am saying, the terms I am referring to, etc. Its similar to explaining physics to someone who has never studied physics and do not know the basics of it. Astrology can-not be summarized, there are a lot of factors to consider and has been around for thousands of years. I can give you a definition but that doesn't help or explain anything because a definition is very vague. To even begin to grasp what astrology is, its helpful to do a natal chart on yourself
            
            Do your own research and make your mind up!!!

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               janesixposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               What you aren't getting is that you keep failing to answer the actual question. How does astrology work? You could give me lessons all day long on astrology and not come close. It is your failure to show, and not my failure to understand.
               
               What is the medium through which the planets influence human behavior? Through measurable, physical means? Or is it just superstition? Is it through a means/media we don't know how to measure (or can't) like prana for instance? I want to know HOW.

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                  deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Ok one big aspect of astrology is natal charts (also known as birth charts). From my What is Astrology Anyway? Part 2 Houses Natal Charts and Conclusions hub,
                  "Natal charts are physical charts that show the specific positions, planets and other factors for an individual, place or event. Natal charts collect and measure this information by analyzing the birthday (day, month and year), the specific time of birth and the specific place a person was born. Natal charts are very unique, individualized and personal and are often there to help analyze and interpret a person, place or event in time. Natal charts also shows you things like decants, degrees, aspects and transits that all evolve around the person’s specific and unique planetary positions and all that fancy, detailed, confusing and more advanced information. No two natal charts (in theory) are alike, just as no two snowflakes are alike"
                  There is actually math, skill, and method involved when doing natal charts. You can say it is measurable and a bit scientific since there is a method to it. Astrologers have to study all the planets positions at the time of birth by studying an ephemeris. An ephemeris is a chart of the positions of heavenly bodies (like planets, asteroids, etc.) at given points in time—you can purchase one or find one at the library, and several are available on the Internet. You also need the longitude and latitude coordinates of the place you were born. Astrologers used to this by hand but now we have computer programs and online websites where you can put in your date of birth, birth-time, and location you were born and they do everything for you (including giving you interpretation of it). ALL FOR FREE When you do a natal chart you can a drawing (a big circle divided into sections with symbols on them). In the natal chart there are 7 personal planets (Ascendant, Sun, Moon, Mars, Venus, Mercury, Jupiter). Then they give you your interpersonal. trans-generational planets, Pluto, Neptune, and Uranus This is trans-generational because people within the same age category as you aka the same generation as you and they apply to everyone not just you.
                  
                  A natal chart gives you insight to lot of things in relationship to yourself and the planets/asteroids, your basically personality (sun or zodiac sign),  your emotions (moon), how you act in relationship (Venus), how you express your energy and sexuality (your mars), your communication style (mercury) ETC.
                  
                  I suggest you do a natal chart to grasp what astrology is. By the way the picture below is an example of how a natal chart looks like.
                  
                  
                  

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                     janesixposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     I know what a natal chart is. That doesn't answer my question of how it works. I am beginning to suspect you have reading comprehension problems.

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                        deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        I truly doubt that you know what a natal chart is. If you did know, you will know that it is a big part of astrology. A big part of how astrology works has to do with natal chart. If you were actually smart enough to grasp that then we can begin talking. I am beginning to suspect you have forgot to take your meds? Am I right? Maybe you should lay off this forum and get your mind right

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                           EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           That's quite the debate tactic you employ. What do call it?

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                           janesixposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           It's OK to admit you don't know how astrology works.
                           
                           It's not science. That is laughable.

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                              deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              It's OK to admit you don't understand or comprehend what i am talking about
                              
                              It's not science. And I am perfectly fine with that!! It is laughable that others are not ok with that . Haha

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                     EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Here is an easy to grasp description of what astrology is...
                     
                     At the end of the 17th century, new scientific concepts in astronomy and physics (such as heliocentrism and Newtonian mechanics) called astrology into question. Astrology thus lost its academic and theoretical standing, and common belief in astrology has largely declined.Astrology has been rejected by the scientific community as a pseudoscience, having no validity or explanatory power for describing the universe. Among other issues, there is no proposed mechanism of action by which the positions and motions of stars and planets could affect people and events on Earth that does not contradict well understood basic aspects of biology and physics.
                     
                     http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrology

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   psycheskinnerposted 9 years ago

   The fact that the zodiac signs no longer even relate to when those stars are ascendent reveals a bit of a basic validity problem.

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   Jaydeusposted 9 years ago

   psycheskinner's reply is spot-on.  The astrology standards put into place in ancient times no longer are the same as those who designed the primitive systems did not understand that celestial objects do not follow the same paths forever.  They could tell that some points of light moved faster, the planets, but they did not have any clue as to why so they assigned them divine names and associated with them their respective powers and persuasions.
   Astronomy is factual science and I suggest placing your study in that instead of mythology and you will discover there is much more to the universe than superstition.

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      deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      @psycheskinner and @Jaydeus The information you are presenting is not accurate in regards to astrology. There is a misconception that astrology is all about looking at the stars and that it has outdated information. Its actually about looking mostly at planets and asteroids (and not stars). If you do your own natal chart you will see that it really isn't about stars. Also most of what astrology is about, is done in real time, not hundreds of years ago. Natal charts are done for your birth-date (and unless you were born hundreds of years ago) your point doesn't make any sense. Astrology is very old, but its very applicable to modern times. Again it doesn't seem like you know much about astrology. Do your own research!!!
      
      Plus I don't understand why people try to apply science and scientific method to something that is not scientific. Astrology doesn't claim to be scientific. That is like trying to proof there is a God. How can you possibly prove there is God? Perhaps the theory of evolution (which is a theory, not a fact and is not widely accepted in the scientific community). There are no tests or tools that measure astrology effectively, because testers fail to understand the nature of astrology. Plus science and the scientific community is continuously revealing then later disproving and questioning theories and ideas. Scientists can't agree on anything for too long. And how can they? The more you know, the less you know!

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         wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         "One thing I do know is that the planets don't change positions or disappear."
         
         Really?  We can see Saturn during the summer months and some of spring and fall but it disappears in the winter (behind the sun).  In a few hundred years it will only be visible during the winter, with summer being behind the sun.  Say again how they don't change positions...

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            deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            @wilderness: I realize now that that quote doesn't make sense. I am well aware that planets and celestial objects move around. In astrology we do take into account what planets are doing? When they go into retrograde, direct and stationary. I keep mentioning natal charts because you will understand what I am talking about if you do one!!! It is very current to what's going on in the universe now! btw Where are you getting your information from? Give me links to your articles and other information.

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               EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               If you were aware of what the planets were doing, you would find that the term "retrograde" was used in astrology when it was thought the Earth was the center of the universe and it appeared that some planets moved backwards. Retrograde actually has a meaning in astronomy, which is not the same meaning used in astrology.
               
               One of many reasons why astrology is now considered pseudoscience.

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               wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Planets don't "go into retrograde" (reverse rotation from that of their primaries), and they don't go stationary either.  Either would violate Newtons first law of motion.

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                  deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  In astrology, that's the terms they use. Its more symbolic then literal. I know planets don't actually go retrograde. Retrograde in astrology is more of a symbolic period which asks you to look inward.

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                     EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     Exactly, and because it has been defined to be "more symbolic then literal", it becomes a useless term, along with the phrase "which asks you to look inward". It's all completely subjective and falls prey to various interpretation.

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               wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               As far as Saturn goes, look up any celestial map - it will show you when and where you can see any planet.  Then think about what happens when that planet is on the other side of the sun (planets DO circle the sun) and what season it will be on earth when we see it at night, and advance the time on the map.  This year, I saw Saturn in April/May; it is not just visible at the horizon as the sun goes down.  Soon you won't see it at all as you would have to look through the sun to do so; come spring it will be back.
               
               But of course any good Astrologer knows all this; planetary orbits have been well understood for centuries.

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                  deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Ya because astrologers are apparently the same as astronomers .

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                     wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     *shrug*  You're claiming the ancients knew orbital physics in order to determine where a planet would be - either they can or they can't.  Personally, I don't think you will find a single astrologer in the world that can calculate an orbit properly, but I could be wrong.

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                        deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        Why would they need to? "Astrology isn't a science"

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                           wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                           Couldn't begin to tell you.  As far as I can see it's all made up anyway - no knowledge needed.
                           
                           But YOU'RE the one claiming great knowledge there - the knowledge of someone studying astronomy for a lifetime - can you answer your own question?

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                              deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                              I am not sure I understand your question. Can you clarify?

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                                 wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                 You asked why an astrology needs to know basic astronomy.  I don't know, but you seem to claim they are actually astronomers first - can you answer your own question, then?

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                                    deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                    I didn't claim astrologers are astronomers first. They are different, but share common origins. Astronomy developed out of astrology. A lot of terms in astrology are also used in astronomy. If astrology supposedly is all hocus pocus and astrology isn't science (that I can agree with), then what's the point of learning astronomy? Doesn't make sense to me? What's why I asked why?

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                                       wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       If alchemy is just hocus-pocus (and it is) then why bother to learn chemistry?  Look around you at what the study of chemistry has produced and you'll find a thousand reasons; look at how astronomy has improved our understanding of the universe and you'll find a thousand reasons for THAT.
                                       
                                       On the other hand, the predictions of astrology are nothing but imagination and bear no connection to reality.  So why learn it?

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                                       EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                                       That is the point exactly, you hit the nail right on the head. Astronomy originated from astrology. But, since astronomy began, they found real answers to real questions and soon realized that astrology was just myth and superstition, that is why it is no longer accepted as science. It never was science.
                                       
                                       It is exactly like the Earth being flat and the center of the universe, there was no real science involved in that conclusion, which changed when we learned that it was false, just like when we learned that celestial bodies have no influence over humans, as astrology claims.

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         EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         It's quite simple, science helps us to understand how things work. If the scientific method can't be applied, then there is nothing to understand, it becomes gibberish.
         
         
         
         And yet, a Gallup Poll reveals that only 0.15% of all scientists and engineers are creationists, the rest accept evolution. That is because evolution is indeed a fact, and a theory.
         
         Tell us again, please, how evolution is not widely accepted in the scientific community?

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   deecoleworldposted 9 years ago

   Psychology as a discipline is more similar to astrology then anything else scientific. Carl Jung dabble in astrology, modern British psychologist and astrologer Liz Greene is highly regarded and respected. Humans are complex and are not predictable.  Astrology has elements of prediction (but I don't believe in that and don't think of it as useful).
   To all people on this forum!!! I use astrology (and many others) in a very similar way to psychology to get insight into human motivations and behavior. It is used to give insight to a person's personality, to help people understand and work on themselves. Astrology isn't just about predicting behavior that is a BIG misconception. There are different categories/branches of astrology (natal, horary, vocational, etc). Plus I would say that a lot of people that don't believe in astrology, know nothing about it, they think its just the 12 signs and the horoscopes in the back of the newspapers and that's it. Its not true, people need to do their own research before dismissing something they know nothing about.
   
   I challenge everyone here to do a natal chart using your birthday, the exact time of birth, and the location you were born in.  You can find it free natal chart on Google and it shouldn't take more than 5 minutes. Chaos astrology and Astrolabe are good sites for that! I hope this will give you a good grasp of what astrology is. If they still don't believe in that no harm done.
   
   By the way there is a lot of information out there, especially on the internet. For natal charts, chaos astrology, and astrolabe are good sites.For general information astrology.com, astrologyzone and sassastrology, cafeastrology. For celebrity astrological information and information on transits there is astrotheme. If you want to read blogs, The Astrology Place, Elsa Elsa, and Solaris Astrology are good blogs. If you want to chat with people about astrology and like a forum environment there is the astrologers community and Lindaland are good. If you want to read books on astrology check out authors like Liz Greene, Stephen Arroyo and Linda Goodman. If you want to look at videos on astrology check out Astrolada, KRS Astrology (for Vedic astrology), LiveVision, Veerle Debruyne,  Alyssa Sharpe, the Peacedealer, and Penny Astrology/whackowitch. There are plenty of information and resources. 
   
   Do your own research and make your mind up!!!!

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   deecoleworldposted 9 years ago

   @EncephaloiDead: I am just realizing you are a troll exhibiting classic internet troll behavior. Especially the fact that you joined hubpages for over a year, still don't have any hubs and love to comment on questions and forums mostly regarding philosophy and religion. You are not here to try to understand. I am all open for a debate I enjoy debates. When so, you came in with preconceived ideas on astrology and you actually don't want to learn. You are disrespectful and intolerant. I am done wasting my time trying to explain something to you, when clearly you don't give a f**k!   I am also done responding to you. Have fun being a troll!!!  I am moving on!!!

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   deecoleworldposted 9 years ago

   @wilderness: I was being a bit sarcastic. There is something to astrology even if it isn't a science. IF you fully understood astrology then you will see this. Astrology improved the understanding of ourselves and the world around us. I know it has for me. Astrology isn't nothing but imagination and it does have connection to reality. It sounds really ignorant what you are saying. If you see no point in astrology, that's fine but saying its useless is incredibly stupid to me. Like you are judging something you don't fully understand or ever take a closer look at. I can understand you looked and did research into astrology and then come to the conclusion that its utter bullshit. That's fine! Whatever!!!.
   But you are making judgement on something you never even take a closer look at. I can understand you would think that is a waste of time, but don't go around saying its bs, if you don't know anything about it. For someone who is supposedly logical that the most illogical. irrational thing you can do. Btw I think its incredibly stupid to compare something scientific to something that isn't, it can not be held in the same standard and its unfair to do so.
   On the why learn it question? That's similar to asking why believe in God? There is a lot of things we don't know in this universe that science still can't prove. Its an alternative perspective on things we don't understand.

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      wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      But I didn't say it was worthless; I said it had no connection to reality.  The adherents to astrology get a great deal of pleasure and stress relief from it - it has a very definite value.  It just can't be trusted to give true answers, that's all, and that doesn't matter to the believers any more than proof does to the believers in a god-creature from another universe that loves them and made this universe just for them.
      
      As far as an alternate perspective; yes it most surely is, just as believers in that invisible god is a different perspective.  It just has no connection we can find to reality and is thus of no value to anything but the emotional state of it's believers.  Perspective does not necessarily equate to reality after all, as it often comes from the imagination and not from fact or truth.

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         deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         @wilderness: It does have a connection to reality though. What can actually give us true answers? Nothing in this world can give us true answers, we have to find truth in things, ideas, etc,. I do agree science can gives us to answers to things we wouldn't have known otherwise, but what about those existential questions we have been asking since idk, the 20th Century. Why are we here? Where did we come from? etc.
         Technically we are in this world alone, but are we really? It may seem that way but what if there is this whole other world/universe we don't know anything about. Space exploration, aliens perhaps? (I am fully aware this sounds crazy!!). But there are things we can't explain yet, things that point elsewhere.
         I think everything has value and I don't agree that "Perspective does not necessarily equate to reality". Perspective is a different side to and part of reality. Putting all the different perspectives together may give us a whole picture. Kinda like a puzzle. Astrology does not come from the imagination!

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            EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Science.
            
            
            
            Science is answering those questions, too. But, if you refuse to learn anything about the world around you, you'll never understand those answers.
            
            
            
            What things? You say that but can you actually provide valid examples?
            
            
            
            It comes from myth and superstition.

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            wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Ignorance of the answer to a question (maybe "Why are we here?") is not a reason to invent one out of pure imagination.  While it may make one feel good about their life, there is no reason to think such an answer is valid or true.

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               deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               It is not out of pure imagination. There is a method to astrology and it applies alot of disciplines (history, geometry, psychology, mythology, etc.). P.S. Imagination and creativity are the best things out of life and to the world. The ability to think creativity and out the box is a wonderful skill. A lot of human advances came out of imagination. I am sure you have all the answers to life then? Logic is GOD in your book. No room for uncertainty. Right? That sounds like a sad way to live.

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                  wildernessposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Sure.  And 2+2=4, which is the number for high emotional response. 
                  
                  See how that works?  You make up an imaginary correlation and declare it to be true.  Works every time, too, until you do a statistical analysis and find out there IS no correlation.
                  
                  Thinking outside the box is a great way to find new hypothesis to be checked and tested.  Not to make up imaginary things and think they're true.

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                     deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     I still don't understand why you keep trying to apply scientific terms to something that is not scientific. That isn't very smart!!!  Astrology isn't imaginary correlation or imaginary, it is very real and to some it is very true. I happen to be one of those people. I don't understand why you refuse to see it, in non-scientific terms. Ignorance is bliss ........ or more like intellectual laziness

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                        EncephaloiDeadposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        We do see it in non-scientific terms, which would be the opposite of fact and evidence, in other words, myth and superstition, which is indeed non-scientific.

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   newbizmauposted 9 years ago

   Its fair to say that Astrology cannot be understood purely from a scientific viewpoint.
   
   To me its like trying to understand the elements from purely a spiritual view point because elements are physical. Astrology in my view is a combination of both and therefor cannot be explained unless you understand both.
   
   Science meets Spirit

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      deecoleworldposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank You! newbizmau I agree!!!

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