Would you, agree there is only one way to heaven?
All the other churches that are not a Church of Christ teach a damnable doctrine and people ignorantly believe these pastors, evangelists, ministers and elders of these denominational churches. I'll tell you why!
For instance, the Catholics place Jesus in a manger on December 25th, when He is God and doesn't have a beginning. The Jehova Witnesses’ receive Jesus only once a year during the Spring, when Christ commands His Bride to receive Him every Sunday. This is to remind us of the blood He shed for you after you have repented. There you could receive a proper baptism and be placed in His Church, the Church of Christ. The Church of Christ has Christ’s name stamped on it and it is His Church. Baptism Saves, however, you must be properly baptized by immersion, after you have sinned in a Church of Christ. Babies are not sinners and it is useless to receive a baptism as a baby, because you can't repent of your sins yet, since you are innocent at this point. Simple, right!I don't know, Craan. Do you really think God is that picky about what we believe happened 2000 years ago? The important part is that we believe that Jesus the Christ was the Son of God, was crucified so that our sins could be forgiven, and rose from the dead on the third day according to scriptures.
Yes!
And you must do something more! You must have a clean heart and obey God, The Holy Spirit of the Bible Who Says, You Must Be Baptized too. See Acts 2:38, "Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit."
The Holy Spirit is the Seal of Eternal Promise placed in your heart that acknowledges you are a child of God and Part of the Church of Christ, Christ's Bride. The Bride Christ Gave His Life's Blood For.
Imagine there's no heaven, its easy if you try .................................
This is impossible for me to imagine @janderson99, because Heaven and Hell does exist.
Except that the Hellfire doctrine is a perverse Antichrist mendacity that defames God. As a God of justice and love he would never prescribe infinite punishment for a finite crime no matter how wicked: http://bit.ly/17fVMYm
You are incorrect, Joseph O Polanco and teaching a perverted doctrine!
Hellfire is a real torment for sinners. Mark 16:16 iterates this again, "He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." Damned means you will burn in hell forever if you disobey the Eternal God of Heaven or turn your back on Him. So, Why Do You Believe Jesus Gave His Life's Blood? Jesus Shed His Blood for His Bride, His Church. If You are not a part of Christ's Church, which He Named The Church of Christ, YOU WILL BE DAMNED.
The Church of Christ has Christ's name stamped on it? I could name a heap of other churches using Christ's name. It means nothing except that a human being has chosen that name when they founded the church. Big deal.
The Church of Christ is Christian the other churches are not, Ms. Wright. This is the difference.
That sort of blanket dismissal of all beliefs but your own is off-putting to the extreme. You'll not win anyone over with that attitude.
I can't sugar coat the truth, Willstar! This would make me a liar like the many others who are misleading people. The Mormons, Baptists, Jehovah Witnesses, Armstrongist, Episcopalians, Catholics, Pentecostals, Muslims, etc. teach damnable doctrines and innocent people ignorantly believe these cartels.
It's amazing what good, intelligent people will believe. Isn't it?
you mentioned muslims therefore i defend my ppl. i won't go into a debate about who is right and who is wrong. instead i would like to ask you a simple question.
you seem like quite a spiritual person, with a good heart, therefore you must have "felt" spirituality. this feeling would make you think that you are on the right path, and you would want everyone to join you, because you want everyone to feel that kind of spirituality as well as want everyone to go to heaven. (this is an assumption i'm making, which i feel would be 90% true).
now what if i said to you that i have followed the quran and have felt the same thing or something similar...
it is the experience of that "feeling", which strengthens a persons faith.
back to the question .... why do so many people who follow different paths of spirituality "feel" something? there are so many different kinds of religions out there, yet how come they can all connect to the spiritual world? don't you think that if you were right then only the people of the christian church would be able connect and feel something?A profound, honest and intelligent question. Sam Harris recently wrong a book about the feeling of which you speak in which he shows that even Atheists can feel that same sense of spirituality.
i'm sure atheists would be able to feel it too ... we are all human and we all have it in us somewhere. will see if i can find the Sam Harris book. do you remember the title by any chance?
I went through the first chapter of the book which is available online...
seems to me that many atheists do like the idea of a higher power ... they just don't like the to mix with all the "bull" that has been created around the existing stuff...
it also felt like the author was taking you back to square 1, because he also had lost faith in current belief systems. although he seems to have studied extensively, its interesting how he chose Buddhism practices yet did not go deep enough to realize that although sufism does have the label of mystics they do exactly the same thing.
Sufism existed before islam ... and you can be a sufi without accepting islam... in the book 'essential sufism' it explained that when you go really deep into the meditations you enter some rough waters or storms ... it becomes like carrying a lantern without the protecting glass ... you might laugh but the book goes on to say that the sufi's chose islam because of the discipline it teaches you and it becomes the glass of the lantern in the storm.
the author also talks about mindfulness ... the same first step is used in sufism ... there are also a few NLP (neuro-linguistic programming) techniques online that can help you in achieving extended lengths of time in meditation.
the greater jihaad for a muslim is the conquest of oneself (because it is a continuous struggle) the lower jihaad is the holy war (when islam is under threat). the first steps of self-improvement in islam are the same as outlined in the book. the details or stages your soul will go through in this journey, according to islamic beliefs is here ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nafs
In the end ... you are closer to the higher power ... you do not need the material world and you are constantly in a state of peace and contentment. The stronger person will live with many material possessions and the weaker will live in seclusion.I think the point being is one can achieve spirituality with God. We all can therefor we can acknowledge that the feeling are part of humanity and are not connected to any Gods. Many of the Christians tell us we need to accept Jesus in order to experience spirituality, but that is simply not the case. The author BTW is a rather outspoken and rather hated and misunderstood atheist by most religious communities but specifically the Muslim community. He's on the record as saying that Islam is a collection of a lot of bad ideas and those ideas are responsible for groups like ISIS and Boko Haram, but says the way to defeat these groups is to empower the less militant fanatical muslims.
Anyhow the point is the experiences we can have within our own brain do not translate into Godly experiences.Yeah I did get the feeling he wasn't a fan of Islam.
Yes it is possible to achieve spirituality without following the traditional paths.
You might find a ted talk by a nureologist quite interesting. Search for Jill Bolte on ted.com. She experienced a new world during a brain hemorrhagic. A door opened for her.
I believe that everyone of us has a right to be in heaven, there is no right or wrong religion, as long as you believe in God and the Lord Jesus Christ or even some other spiritual religions, but you have to live according to the idealistic ways of those religions and do not do to others what you would hate that the others do to you.
Well, that's a little better anyway. Everyone has the right to go to heaven as long as they believe in some God or Gods and don't hurt anyone. Well that's not really everyone is it? I don't believe in any Gods, but I don't hurt anyone, do I get it as well?
Hard to say, you need to believe in some spiritual things, because if you don't, it is more likely that your soul will not exist, since you do not believe it exists, in other words you are cutting yourself off, but it is your choice.
Immortality is a privilege not a right.
God doesn't hear the prayers of a sinner, Frank! How could you invite God into your heart when it is dirty? You must repent and receive a proper baptism and believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And you must also meet Jesus at His Lord's Supper Every Sunday.
The better felt and told feeling in your heart, Frank, will not work with God the Father! And the differences in churches are huge! Jesus created His Church in AD33 in Jerusalem when He resurrected from the dead and authentically called His Church, The Church of Christ. The Church of Christ is His Only Bride, the others are not Christ's Bride.
Do you belong to the Church of Christ? Are you making up the body of the Church of Christ, the only church that will make it to heaven? If you are a part of the Church of Christ, you have nothing to worry about since you are a Christian.
Open your eyes Frank and don't allow any denominational pastor, evangelist or minister to trick you, because they teach damnable doctrines, and don’t believe baptism saves. The better felt and told stories are leading innocent people to hell. Don’t allow this to be you, Frank!Thanks for your concerns Craan; but do not worry about me, I am a Roman Catholic turned agnostic, so, I have my own religious beliefs, in fact I am writing a few religious articles in Hub Page, you are welcome to read them, if your church of Christ allows you to read religious articles that do not belong to your church.
Thank again, Craan.
What about obeying God? Don't you think God has requirements for you to obey before He would allow you to enter His Heavenly Kingdom? Jesus didn’t die and shed His Life’s Blood for nought. It was for a cause and there are specific instructions in the Bible besides simply believing in God. The demons believe Jesus is the Son of God and they tremble! Aren't we better off than the demons. No Demon has the Holy Spirit Living in Their Heart! How could they, they simply have a feeling better felt and told mentality. Not such a naive feeling a Christian wants to possess, by all means!
Nothing like a good rhubarb,eh?
Writing inflammatory Hubs is always good copy-but do you really expect to come to any consensus by deliberately insulting your audience? After reading your Hub I am now more firmly convinced than ever that your "church" is loaded with violent minded lunatics and NOT Christians. Thanks for the heads up!But history shows us that Christians have traditionally been violent minded lunatics. Even today young men and women go out to war with the name "god" on their lips.
Boy, I'm learning some awesome vocabulary words, here! Thanks!
I really do not understand the question or the intro.
What are you getting it exactly?Hi @ ColorfulOne,
All I am saying is there is one way to God, like there is one way North. Denominational Churches teach you can say a little prayer to Jesus and be saved and have no need of a baptism. This is incorrect because God does not hear the prayers of a sinner.
Only the"Church of Christ" that began in Jerusalem when Jesus resurrected in AD33 is the true way to God the Father. The other churches started in another country and later.
The Church of Christ is the Way to God the Father! Christ gave His Life's Blood for it. I highly suggest you read for more information "The Traditions of Men Vs The Word of God." It's on Amazon.
If you prefer, you may email me your address at sheilacraan@yahoo.com and I will mail you this book
It's always interesting when I hear someone say that their God doesn't want us to sin so all we have to do to please him is get in some water and say sorry. And when we define sin we find that it's simply part of what us biological animals are breed to do. He wants us to ignore what and who we are and what and who he made us to be. For this reason I reject your version of God. Well, for that reason and for the reason that no gods exist, but I'm glad it's not your version.
Yes, we are all sinners, however, when we are forgiven, we do not sin willfully anymore. God is Good and there is only one God. Sinning willfully after you have received the good blessings of the Lord will cause you to trample on the Cross of Christ. And at this point there will be no more remission for your sin and your name will be removed from the Lambs Book of Life.
So, it's okay if your sin isn't willful? In truth there is no sin. It's a made up term to keep people in line. People are biological creatures who need to learn to help each other get through life. What is best for people is the question that needs to be asked, not what is best for the people who wrote the bible thousands of year ago. We no longer need to multiply for example. We understand that when we get sic you need to see a doctor rather than simply pray would be another.
Once you acknowledge your sin, Rad Man, or are made aware of it, then you may ask God to Forgive you with Jesus Christ acting as your High Priest. Again, like I said before and this is in the Bible, if you sin willfully after you have received the seal of the Holy Spirit at Baptism there remains no more remission for your sin. At this point you will be lost again and headed to Hell when you die.
Yea yea yea. I've been told about hellfire before. That doesn't work on my because it's the equivalent of telling me Santa's watching and I won't get any presents. I'm asking you to think a little deeper. You just repeated the same old stuff without addressing any of the things I've said. Your Bible is an ethical nightmare written by slave owners who wanted their slaves and women well mannered. If you were to really live by the morality described in your bible we'd still be buying and selling slaves and stoning promiscuous and poorly behaved boys. If there is a just God he's most likely wondering why people refuse to use their own mind and continue to threaten people with things they have no knowledge of.
Why, because I'm capable of reason and thought? You have yet to respond with reason or thought.
Your conscious won't get you to heaven, Rad Man, Your Heart Will! And You Must Obey the God of the Holy Bible to Get There, if you care.
Will this heaven be full of people like you? Because if it is - I don't want to go there. Do you get a Prize for Pushing People Away From Jesus?
I don't care what you think of me, Sir, since I speak the truth found in the Holy Bible from the bottom of my heart. Besides, it seems like you’re an atheist judging by your name, and I honestly couldn't convince you of the existence of a righteous God who created all things in this universe. Cause you don’t believe God exists, right!
Thanks for reminding me why I rejected this nonsense in the first place - if heaven is full of people like you and you are an example of what it is like to believe - I am not interested. do you get a prize for pushing people away?
Says the people who wanted their slaves and women well behaved. It's sad really, you're working your entire life trying to get into something that doesn't exist and that was invented as a way of control the masses and given their men a sense of entitlement for war.
Therefore, Rad Man, may I conclude judging by your recent statement that you do not believe there is only way to get to heaven.
I do not believe there is a heaven especially not the one described in the bible. Did you know the God of the bible gave instruction on how to sell your children into slavery? Does that sound ethical and moral to you?
Where does the Bible institue slavery? Chapter and verse, if you kindly would.
“Freedom in the ancient Near East was a relative, not an absolute state, as the ambiguity of the term for “slave” in all the region’s languages illustrates. “Slave” could be used to refer to a subordinate in the social ladder. Thus the subjects of a king were called his “slaves,” even though they were free citizens. The king himself, if a vassal, was the “slave” of his emperor; kings, emperors, and commoners alike were “slaves” of the gods. Even a social inferior, when addressing a social superior, referred to himself out of politeness as “your slave.” There were, moreover, a plethora of servile conditions that were not regarded as slavery, such as son, daughter, wife, serf, or human pledge.”- A History of Ancient Near Eastern Law 1.40
All your assertions betray your particular mindset, your presumptions as to what you feel slavery to be , the way you imagine these were dealt with as well as what you feel slaves were thought of as by their society . Yet factotums in the Hebrew Scriptures were not viewed as sub-human . They possessed the right to their own personal lives , they enjoyed ‘human dignity’ , they had value . The above-mentioned details are elements anybody can readily deduce from the reality that they were able to purchase their liberty , their murder was punishable by death , the were not permitted to be punished beyond the penalties set for other free Hebrews . Aside from all that , they possessed their very own assets ( anything they bought before offering themselves and/or the cash paid to these for the transaction , they were able to ‘prosper’ and then buy themselves back ) . Their boss bestowed them a part of everything he had produced in the period they helped him as soon as they went free . These were considered cherished members of the family and took part in its regular feasts . They were able to actually consume the holy offerings if they belonged to a priest ( something which no person but members of the priest’s family could do ) . Put simply , anyone that has examined the Pentateuch well enough and without preconception can easily appreciate this .
There were absolutely no ‘two groups’ , certainly no segregation , simply no diminished dignity ( any more than the individuals ended up losing dignity by being known as slaves of the king ) , never any inhuman treatment , certainly no apathy . Simply put , you have mistaken ancient Israel's moral and just labor system for something else entirely .Yeah. They had a monetary value, just like any other chattel.
Disgusting, immoral and probably the worst "sin" man has ever propagated on their fellow man. All under instructions from your god.“The definition of slaves as property runs into conceptual as well as empirical problems. ‘Property’ is a shorthand and abstract term for a bundle of very specific and relatively exclusive rights held by a person (or group) relative to a thing (or person). To say that in any given society, something (say, a person) is ‘property’ has meaning only to the extent that the rights involved are specified and understood in the context of other rights prevalent in the society. For example, in many precolonial African societies, the kin group had the right to sell equally its slave and nonslave members, it had equal control over the wealth acquired by either of them, it extracted (or failed to extract) as much labor from one as from the other, and the majority of slaves were quasi-relatives or actual relatives, and, if prosperous enough, could acquire slaves of their own. Here, obviously, one must look at other features to find the difference between the slave and the ‘free’.” Encyclopedia of Cultural Anthropology 4:1191, s.v. “Slavery”
“Guterbock refers to ‘slaves in the strict sense,’ apparently referring to chattel slaves such as those of classical antiquity. This characterization may have been valid for house slaves whose master could treat them as he wished when they were at fault, but it is less suitable when they were capable of owning property and could pay betrothal money or fines. The meaning ‘servant’ seems more appropriate, or perhaps the designation ‘semi-free’. It comprises every person who is subject to orders or dependent on another but nonetheless has a certain independence within his own sphere of active.” [A History of Ancient Near Eastern Law:1632]
“However, the idea of a slave as exclusively the object of rights and as a person outside regular society was apparently alien to the laws of the ANE.” [Anchor Bible Dictionary s.v. "Slavery, Ancient Near East"]
Given that a slave is "someone who is legally owned by another person and is forced to work for that person without pay ," referring to the labor system used by the ancient Israelites as slavery is unscrupulous , dishonest .
Wow, I guess you haven't read the bible.
Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT
However, you may purchase male and female slaves from among the nations around you.You may also purchase the children of temporary residents who live among you, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat them as slaves, but you must never treat your fellow Israelites this way.
Notice the words purchase, property, inheritance and notice that these slaves are NOT to be treated as fellow Israelites.
Exodus 21:20-21 NLT
If a man beats his male or female slave with a club and the slave dies as a result, the owner must be punished. But if the slave recovers within a day or two, then the owner shall not be punished, since the slave is his property.
Does that sound like the words of a fair loving God or does it sound like the words of slave owners?
Exodus 21:7-11 NLT
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.
So I've mistaken ancient Israel's moral and just labor system for something else entirely? Ahh, I think you owe me an apology.Precisely what system of slavery makes it possible for factotums to amass wealth? ( Leviticus 25 :49 )
Ah, your in the denial phase. I get that. Please reread the quoted scripter and notice the terminology. Property, purchase, beat… Do you honestly believe that the description given is an exceptable version of slavery? Do you think it's morally sound to sell your daughter or son? It's that simple really.
Except that, in ancient Israel, kidnapping anyone and then selling them was punishable by death. (Exodus 21:16)
That's a red herring and I believe you know that. Please explain why a God would tell us it's okay to sell children for cash? Are you defending selling children for cash?
Argumentum reductio ad absurdum. Nothing in the Bible allows parents to "sell their children for cash":
● If an Israelite became bankrupt and destitute, perhaps as a result of poor management, he could work as a factotum. He could even earn a surplus by which he could redeem himself.—Leviticus 25:47-52.
● Leviticus 25:39, 40 says: “In case your brother grows poor alongside you and he has to sell himself to you, you must not use him as a worker in slavish service. He should prove to be with you like a hired laborer, like a settler.” So this was a loving provision to care for Israel’s poorest.
●At Leviticus 25:49 we also find, "If he [the factotum] becomes rich, then he may redeem himself." (Leviticus 25:49) (Bracket mine) This raises the important question, how would he/she be able to become rich in the first place if he/she wasn't earning any income? Plainly, then, this would not be possible if he/she was just a slave since a slave, by definition, receives no compensation for his labor.
● A person found guilty of stealing who was unable to make full restitution according to the Law could be sold as an indentured servant and in this way pay off his debt. (Exodus 22:3) When he had worked off the debt, he could go free.
● Cruel and abusive treatment was proscribed and severely penalized under God’s Law to Israel. While bosses were allowed to reprimand their factotums, excesses were forbidden. One killed by his boss was to be avenged. (Exodus 21:20) If the worker was maimed, losing a tooth or an eye, he was released from his duties.—Exodus 21:26, 27.
● The maximum time that any Israelite would have to serve as a full time factotum was six years. (Exodus 21:2) Hebrew workers were released from their jobs in the seventh year of their service. The Law demanded that every 50 years all Israelite factotums were to be set released nationwide, regardless of how long the individual had worked for his boss.—Leviticus 25:40, 41.
● When such a release took place, the boss was required to be generous toward him. Deuteronomy 15:13, 14 says: “In case you should send him out from you as one set free, you must not send him out empty-handed. You should surely equip him with something from your flock and your threshing floor and your oil and winepress.”
● "But if the slave should insist and say, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my sons; I do not want to be set free,’ his master must bring him before the true God. Then he will bring him up against the door or the doorpost, and his master will pierce his ear through with an awl, and he will be his slave for life." -Exodus 21:5,6 (cf. Deuteronomy 15:16, 17)Exodus 22:3 does not mention indentured servants. In fact, of all of the versions I looked at, only one made the status specific and that was as a slave.
Why would you insert those words (indentured servant), obviously incorrect, into God's word? Servants are not sold at all; only slaves are sold. One might sell the contract of a servant, but never the servant himself, and the verse plainly says "then he shall be sold for his theft" (KJV). The word "he" does NOT refer to a contract for labor; it is a pronoun used to refer to a man, boy (or other male animal).It's description is more in line with the term "indentured servant" than "slave" since kidnapping and selling people was a capital offense in ancient Israel.
Exodus 21:7-11 NLT
When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not satisfy her owner, he must allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. But if the slave’s owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave but as a daughter.
If a man who has married a slave wife takes another wife for himself, he must not neglect the rights of the first wife to food, clothing, and sexual intimacy. If he fails in any of these three obligations, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment.What in this passage leads you to believe this applied to a young child?
You do know that daughters are children - right?
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Danton, Lenin, Sanger, Than Shwe, Stalin, Mengele, Mao, Kim Il Sung, Ceausescu, Honecker, Castro, Pol Pot, Broz Tito and Milosevic oppressive, sadistic, democidal atheists who, collectively, murdered ***hundreds of millions*** of helpless men, women and little children?
Ah - the Pol Pot was an atheist therefore it doesn't matter how many people were killed in the name of god argument.
Strawman. Here’s a thought. What about making an effort at any kind of a cohesive refutation of that which I’ve unmistakably expressed rather than bickering with the bent mockeries embroidered by the voices raging in your mind?
But thanks for admitting you're trolling and not actually interested in learning anything.Oh - I have learned a lot from you. Why are you so angry? Is it because I pointed ut the logical fallacies in your cut and paste?
Did any of those people collectively murder millions of people in the name of atheism, you know kind of like the people who have murdered hundreds of thousands directly in the name of god?
“It was Dostoevsky, once again, who drew from the French Revolution and its seeming hatred of the Church the lesson that "revolution must necessarily begin with atheism." That is absolutely true. But the world had never before known a godlessness as organized, militarized, and tenaciously malevolent as that practiced by Marxism.
Within the philosophical system of Marx and Lenin, and at the heart of their psychology, hatred of God is the principal driving force, more fundamental than all their political and economic pretensions. Militant atheism is not merely incidental or marginal to Communist policy; it is not a side effect, but the central pivot.”
― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Slavery was feasible in the Old Testament, Rad Man and for the Jews admonition. And, You are right Rad Man it is still feasible in the New Testament era, since Christ Shed His Blood Two Thousand Years Ago for His Bride, His Church of Christ and nailed the Ten Words to the Cross.
Today, most people, including the so called Jews of Isreal are gentiles until they believe Jesus is the Son of God and are Baptized for the remission of sins.
God Gave Us a New Covenant and Got Rid of the Laws in the Old Testament. Moses Laws were for the Jews Only back then and they were a stubborn bunch of people. The Jews could only have their sins rolled over until the next year through the sacrifice of animals.
Jesus came into our spoiled world 2000 years ago and He became the perfect sacrifice for our sins. Now, we are washed in the Blood of the Lamb and forgiven when we obey God the Father.
I will double check with my preacher Rad Man and get back to you about Your Slavery Question. I believe you are right on this one, because you proved it exists in the New Testament. I honestly believe you are correct, Rad Man. Thanks for pointing this out to me. We can always learn something new every day, Thanks Again.That's sad really, because you are attempting to justify slavery. Does it matter what time it was that someone sold his children for money. Is that really acceptable behaviour?
But it get's better, and here is why, slavery is condoned in the NT as well.
Matthew 18:25 KJV
But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made.
Titus 2:9 KJV
Exhort servants to be obedient unto their own masters, and to please them well in all things; not answering again;
Colossians 3:22 (NLT)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything you do. Try to please them all the time, not just when they are watching you. Serve them sincerely because of your reverent fear of the Lord.
Ephesians 6:5 (NLT)
Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ.
That's all NT stuff, why are you not demanding we be allowed to keep slaves?
And none of these doctrines seem to stress any spiritual connection between the believer and the creator. That's what spirituality is all about. You can have any or all of your doctrines. Just give me my creator in his entirety and let him tell me what he expects of me.
"Damned means you will burn in hell forever"
Where precisely does the Bible teach this?If you do not follow God's Laws, You will be Damned and burn in Hell forever, Joseph. In Mark 9:43 it clearly states HELL is an unquenchable fire reserved for sinners who are not forgiven.
"And if thy hand offend thee, cut it off: it is better for thee to enter into life maimed, than having two hands to go into hell, into the fire that never shall be quenched."
Actually, the passage correctly reads, "Καὶ ἐὰν σκανδαλίσῃ σε ἡ χείρ σου, ἀπόκοψον αὐτήν· καλόν ἐστίν σε κυλλὸν εἰσελθεῖν εἰς τὴν ζωὴν ἢ τὰς δύο χεῖρας ἔχοντα ἀπελθεῖν εἰς τὴν γέενναν, εἰς τὸ πῦρ τὸ ἄσβεστον."
That is to say, "“If ever your hand makes you stumble, cut it off. It is better for you to enter into life maimed than to go off with two hands into Gehenna (γέενναν), into the fire that cannot be put out."
Do you know what the Koine term γέενναν means?No, I never heard of it Joseph! What does it mean? I hope it is not offensive, if it is I do not wish to know what it means. So, Please don't tell me!
"“Gehenna” means “valley of Hinnom,” for it is the Greek form of the Hebrew geh hin·nom′. In Jos 18:16, where “valley of Hinnom” occurs, LXX reads “Gehenna.” It occurs 12 times in the Christian Greek Scriptures, first appearing in Mt 5:22. The New World Translation renders it “Gehenna” in all its occurrences, namely, in Mt 5:22, 29, 30; 10:28; Mt 18:9; Mt 23:15, 33; Mr 9:43, 45, 47; Lu 12:5; Jas 3:6.
The valley of Hinnom lay to the west and south of ancient Jerusalem. (Jos 15:8; 18:16; Jer 19:2, 6) Under the later kings of Judah it was used for the idolatrous worship of the pagan god Molech, to which god human sacrifices were offered by fire. (2Ch 28:3; 33:6; Jer 7:31, 32; 32:35) To prevent its use again for such religious purposes, faithful King Josiah had the valley polluted, particularly the part called Topheth.—2Ki 23:10.
The Jewish commentator David Kimḥi (1160?-1235?), in his comment on Ps 27:13, gives the following historical information concerning “Gehinnom”: “And it is a place in the land adjoining Jerusalem, and it is a loathsome place, and they throw there unclean things and carcasses. Also there was a continual fire there to burn the unclean things and the bones of the carcasses. Hence, the judgment of the wicked ones is called parabolically Gehinnom.”
The valley of Hinnom became the dumping place and incinerator for the filth of Jerusalem. Bodies of dead animals were thrown in to be consumed in the fires to which sulphur, or brimstone, was added to assist the burning. Also bodies of executed criminals, who were considered undeserving of a decent burial in a memorial tomb, were thrown in. If such dead bodies landed in the fire they were consumed, but if their carcasses landed upon a ledge of the deep ravine their putrefying flesh became infested with worms, or maggots, which did not die until they had consumed the fleshy parts, leaving only the skeletons.
No living animals or human creatures were pitched into Gehenna to be burned alive or tormented. Hence, the place could never symbolize an invisible region where human souls are tormented eternally in literal fire or attacked forever by undying worms. Because the dead criminals cast there were denied a decent burial in a memorial tomb, the symbol of the hope of a resurrection, Gehenna was used by Jesus and his disciples to symbolize everlasting destruction, annihilation from God’s universe, or “second death,” an eternal punishment.
Therefore, to have one’s dead body cast into Gehenna was considered the worst kind of punishment. From the literal Gehenna and its significance, the symbol of the ‘lake burning with fire and sulphur’ was drawn.—Re 19:20; 20:10, 14, 15; 21:8."
http://bit.ly/1ughMiFYou're analyzing this from a physical stance, Joseph!
Hellfire is spiritual and for eternal souls who disobey God.
Hellfire is not for the Children of God or babies or children under 12! The People of God the Father's Kingdom or Christians will enjoy paradise in Heaven with God for all Eternity. The Earth will be burned up when Jesus Returns.If Hell truly was created to incinerate and torture the devil and his angels along with their human cohorts, then why was Jesus in hell when he died?
Acts 2:31
King James Bible
He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell.
American King James Version
He seeing this before spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell.
Bible in Basic English
He, having knowledge of the future, was talking of the coming again of Christ from the dead, that he was not kept in hell.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Foreseeing this, he spoke of the resurrection of Christ. For neither was he left in hell.
Webster's Bible Translation
He seeing this before, spoke of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell.
Concerning Jesus, Acts 2:27 informs us -
King James Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell.
American King James Version
Because you will not leave my soul in hell.
Bible in Basic English
For you will not let my soul be in hell.
Douay-Rheims Bible
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell.
Webster's Bible Translation
Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell.Jesus went to hell when He died to rescue the souls in the Old Testament who had disobeyed God, or sinned and practiced Judaism, Joseph! The Jews were not forgiven of their sin for their stubbornness. They were able to have their sins rolled ahead to the following year by performing animal sacrifices every year until the Messiah came into the world. Therefore, Moses, Abraham, Adam, etc., except, Elijah, who was sinless and transmuted to heaven along with children and babies who went to the paradise of Heaven, the others went to the paradise of Hell.
Everyone in the Old Testament went to a paradise of Hell located in Hell. The Devil couldn't torture these people either, they were simply separated from God. Jesus went to that place in Hell and rescued them and brought them up to the paradise of Heaven when he resurrected from the Dead.
Today, this no longer occurs! You must be saved through the Blood of the Lamb to enter Heaven, since that which is Perfect has already come into the world and that man was Jesus, The Christ of God the Father. When Jesus returns to this sinful world things will change dramatically, and you'll be surprised within the twinkling of your eyes!"Jesus went to hell when He died to rescue the souls in the Old Testament who had disobeyed God, or sinned and practiced Judaism."
And just where precisely does the Bible teach this?See Acts 2:31, John, where the words of David are iterated from verse 25. “He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul (referring to David’s Soul) was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Also see Ephesians 4:7-15 that explains how Jesus went to hell. He descended first into the lower parts of the earth. And He gave gifts to some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; who were being held captive in hell and brought them to the paradise of heaven, when He resurrected on that third day.Thank you for that but, actually, I was looking for where the Bible specifically states that "Jesus went to hell when He died to rescue the souls in the Old Testament who had disobeyed God, or sinned and practiced Judaism." Where exactly does the Bible teach that?
I am not sure where these words are specifically iterated all at once in one full sweep John. However, you must study the entire New Testament and Old Testament to logically understand the book, chapter and verses in the Bible. One should not simply take a verse only and place or infer context to it and give it an interpretation according to their conscious.
If you study the book of John you will see in chapter 17 verse 12, Jesus iterates and refers to the His Apostles, Old Testament prophets and people who followed God's precepts were rescued in Hell even though they had sinned against God. Because During the Old Testament Era No One Could be Forgiven since Christ Had Not Been Resurrected Yet they could only have their sins rolled over to another year by appeasing God with an animal sacrifice. See the words of Christ Below:
John 17:12, "While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: (meaning Jesus kept His Followers in the Name of God the Father) those thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; (here Christ is referring to Judas Iscariot, the one who betrayed Jesus) that the scripture might be fulfilled.""I am not sure where these words are specifically iterated."
Which is why I asked. I've never seen anything like that taught anywhere in the Holy Scriptures.
Got to admit it is fun watching religionists argue over what the bible means.
Keep at it guys - whoever wins will get my vote.Craan, you wrote
"God doesn't hear the prayers of a sinner, Frank! How could you invite God into your heart when it is dirty? You must repent and receive a proper baptism and believe Jesus Christ is the Son of God. And you must also meet Jesus at His Lord's Supper Every Sunday."
How does one get saved if God is not listening"
But, moving past that, if one does manage to get God's ear and be saved according to your theory, but has the flu on Sunday and misses the service and Lord's Supper, is one lost, again? Does God give second chances? Third chances, etc.The bible does tell us that there at least one thing that is unforgivable. So if anyone has ever spoken out against the holy spirit or it's existence, your done, don't even bother to repent.
That's a pretty harsh interpretation. You gotta leave rumor for ignorance prior to understanding who or what the Spirit is, and then denying it. At that point, you got some real problems.
Oh, it's not an interpretation. It's not like it was in code or anything.
"Truly I say to you, all sins shall be forgiven the sons of men, and whatever blasphemies they utter; but whoever blasphemes against the Holy Spirit never has forgiveness, but is guilty of an eternal sin"
No, you are not lost again, Mishpat, if you miss services because you are sick! You have a valid reason for not attending the Lord's services. Your Sick and in Bed and may need to go to the hospital or see a doctor. The members of the Body of Christ will prayer for you to get better.
The only way you could be lost is if you SIN WILLFULLY. Now, do you understand what I mean by WILLFUL SIN?
God forgives every sin except one, willful sin! This is the sin against the Holy Spirit. Because, the Holy Spirit will leave your body if you sin willfully.
An example of a willful sin would be if after you are saved by baptism, you go ahead knowing it's wrong and cheat on your wife or you purposely steal something. Cheating and stealing is not willful if you do it out of IGNORANCE. However, who can cheat on a spouse out of Ignorance! You perhaps might steal something without thinking about it. When you are made aware of your sin, you will ask God to forgive you, and He WILL Forgive YOU.so what is the role of Satan ... how does he come into play... would he not entice you to not go for a service or throw in some vicious thoughts in your mind, which end up being your actions, causing you to sin.
then that sin in this world will be seen as a willful sin... but i'm sure God would understand because although he is strict, he is also merciful... right?
maybe i'm getting it wrong but if its all between you and God then why the need to mention Satan?Satan cannot make you to sin! He will tempt you, however, you sin on your own accord!
Can you define Grace? What about works? And if you would, could you give me the full list of exceptions to rules for not losing your salvation?
Mishpat, the meaning of Grace is eloquently depicted here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPNBq53s-Fc
I don't do third person. We are here in a forum in open discussion. You have made several direct and indirect statements regarding these subjects, so I would like your personal responses, please.
Mishpat, Grace is the unmerited favor of God. Grace is the plan of God of Salvation.
Works is obedience to God. He that believes and is baptized shall be saved. You must remain faithful and participate in the Lord’s Supper every Sunday too to remind you of what Jesus did for you at Calvary.
Being a Christian is not just about faith! Doing Good Works is all about being the best Christian we can be. It’s hard work. See Mattew 5:16. We are to help people!
“Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven.”
If you do not remain faithful to the Gospel of Jesus Christ, you will lose your salvation after you have been baptized and repented of your sins.How would you explain the conflict between what you have said here and in past posts regarding Ephesians 2:8-9; John 6:37; 1 John 1:8-10 (among others).
Ephesians 2:8-9 says, For by Grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is a gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast.
John 6:37 says, All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
1 John 1:8-10 says, If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just ot forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us.
Mishpat, there is no conflict in what I have said. To be faithful is to be obedient to God. We perform works to show our faith to others. This is simple, cause God's works are not grievous. We share our faith like we are doing today. God the Father must call you in order for you to want to learn of Him. It's up to you to obey the call. You have free choice, either you will love God, or Hate Him and love Satan instead.
All have sinned and fall short of the Glory of God. We usually commit our first sin after the age of twelve. This is why we have Grace, the unmerited favor of God when we believe, are properly baptized and repent of our sins. You are sealed with the Holy Spirit in your heart when you become a Christian.
The Holy Spirit will leave your heart if you grieve Him. You will at this point have trampled on the Cross of Christ and there will remain no more remission for your sin. You can be lost forever! However, this rarely happens, unless you truly turn your back on God for good.Actually, according the scripture I gave earlier, simply saying the holy spirit is made up garbage at some point in your life will put you in hell as it's unforgivable by the forgiving God. I'm cool with that, but I hope for your sake you've never thought the holy spirit doesn't exist.
I would like to be pleasant with this reply but your writings here from top to bottom in this note are in conflict. As you indicate, there seems to be either a fickleness to God or to your doctrine. I'll go with the second. One is sealed but can be lost! Christ "will in no wise cast out" but the Spirit will leave you if you "grieve" him! And by implication, grieving does not include sin since John says "If we say we have no sin..."!
But the answer may be in the "about 12 years old" addition or in the previous comments about the necessity of the Lord's Supper or baptism. Men and women are famous for adding to and interpreting the Bible in a manner that suits a doctrine or life style. In years past, such as here, he attempted to set parameters, similar to the 613 "laws", parameters which he could circumvent. Jesus called these folks hypocrites and vipers. But that was in a time when man was not literate.
That doesn't work anymore because man is a thinking creature, study helps are now more readily available and he reasons out these errors. So man, in his infinite wisdom, began rewriting the Bible, hence the many versions now available to support any and all life styles. But some have stuck to the old and improper interpretations, upgrading doctrine under the threat of "loss of salvation."
God is not fickle, man and their doctrines are. And I suspect the Church of Christ is a bit fickle, or arbitrary in it Code of Laws. You do realize that Grace and Law are not the same? That Grace supplanted the Law for believers? That there is not one single action that a believer can execute that will affect his security in Christ?
Your zeal is wonderful, but it seems your beliefs seem based upon the interpretations of man. Faith alone saves and keeps. And that faith is in Jesus Christ alone. That is the message of the Bible, the OT and the NT.
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