Complicated Situation

1. 72

   sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

   First, I want to say I'm back writing articles here on HP. After being home for a few months and on the road travelling for a year and a half.
   I would like advice on my conundrum.
   
   I'm not sure this belongs here. Here's my situation. It's complicated.
   I'm trying to define what I have here. I'm living with a man and we define ourselves as friends yet we sleep in the same bed, go to church together, do things together with his sons, have met his dad a few months back and his mother and the rest of his family on thanksgiving, have met his friends, etc. We've never said we love each other or any thing like that.
   I came to live in his house because I needed to rebuild a house left to me and had no place to stay(no money for rent with all monies going towards rebuild). I had been living on the road for 1.5 yrs. I met him previously through my ex. My ex is an alcoholic(now sober most of the time) whom I left and hit the road. I started talking to this man when ex went to jail(someone needed to feed his pets). My ex had previously said current guy could rent the house(x took care of house while I was away) if my house ever became empty. Unfortunately, my tenant died.
   When I first arrived everything went well. I worked on house but rebuild is taking longer than 1st anticipated and his situation has since changed and he longer wants to rent my house. He wanted to become BF/GF and talked about a future. He wanted my ex completely out of the picture and when it became apparent that wasn't happening(he's- ex- doing most of the rebuild/remodel on the house and I'm not firing him only to pay someone else alot more money because I've went over budget with the house needing so many repairs and work and the guy I'm living with isn't paying the bills) he decided he didn't want to be BF/GF anymore but instead friends. I'm okay with that really because I'm currently in therapy and she doesn't feel I need to be in any kind of relationship until I've worked through my dysfunctional childhood and other issues. She defines this situation as a housing arrangement.
   While I'm okay with this situation it does seem kind of odd I guess and I'm curious as to how what we are doing is defined if there is a definition. I'd like to have other people's opinion's on this. Has anyone else been in a similar situation like mine?

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      dashingscorpioposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      It's sounds like this was a "relationship of convenience". The only reason you moved in with this guy is because you didn't have any other viable options! It wasn't like you two had been seriously dating and fell "in love" with one another. Circumstances have been the driving force behind every choice you have made thus far.
      
      Essentially you have a sort of business arrangement where you're staying there until your own place is ready for you to move back into.
      The real question is: Are (you) "happy" with the arrangement?
      
      You stated: "We've never said we love each other or any thing like that."
      "He wanted to become BF/GF and talked about a future." and "he decided he didn't want to be BF/GF anymore but instead friends."
      Not once do you mention what (you) want.
      
      It's almost like (you) are a "passenger" in your own life!
      You simply "react" to what is (happening) around you.
      I get no sense of (you) making decisions about (your) future.
      If he wants to be BF/GF you're fine with it and if he doesn't you're fine with that too. Whichever way the wind blows seems to be okay with you or at least that is what you're saying out loud. However I suspect the reason why you are looking for a way to "define" this relationship is because a part of you is unhappy or uncomfortable with the way it is.
      You have to decide if you're "friends with benefits" or roommates
      When there are no "rules" or "boundaries" and people spend a lot of time together usually at some point they want to outline their expectations of each other and set goals for the future of their relationship. Are we exclusive? Is okay for us to have sex or date others? Would he be upset if you started dating someone else and spent the weekend away?
      Those questions you need to ask yourself to gage what type of relationship this is and if you're unsure the next step to ask him or observe if he's dating other women and so on.
      
      If you're truly "platonic friends" then both of you are free to do whatever you want with whomever you want. He's simply helping a friend out by letting you stay at his place until yours is ready. With that said you probably shouldn't be sharing the same bed.

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      1. 77

         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         @ sassygirl32
         
         If you won the Lottery what would you do?
         My view is this: You are using the man you are living with because you do not have faith in your own ability to earn money.
         I saw this on a T shirt once and it saved my life at the time:
         "Its better to do the the right thing wrong, than the wrong thing right.
         Think aout it.
         If I were you, I would move into the house and enjoy my freedom even if the situation is like camping out!
         If your ex is working on it, tell him YOU will deal with it from now on. You are divorced, remember?
         
         Then, Get a Job and Fix up the House!
         
         If you do not have that kind of ambition, sell the house as is and invest your money wisely.
         
         Then, Get a Job and Fix Yourself Up.
         
         Fortune cookie saying: The man of your dreams will show up when you are worthy of him.
         
         PS I do not mean to sound harsh, but someone has to tell you.
         If you do not want advice like this, don't ask!
         I have a feeling you knew it would be coming.
         There is: I HOPE I will find a job and make the money I need.
         or: I WISH I could find a job and make the money I need
         or: I WILL find a job and make the money I need.
         
         PSS As always, there must be fifty ways to loose your lovers.
         
         https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhasLyfuT4Y

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   2. 59

      Dudley Dorightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Sounds like the new guy is a little insecure. He's afraid you will leave him for your ex. Give him a little time.

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      1. 77

         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Oh, good grief… she should move the heck out and find a live-in position where she can at least have her own room!  There are many many people who need things in life! Maybe she could find a senior who could use her help in the evening when she gets home from work! She could put an add out. It won't be easy, but miracles do have a way of occurring if you have faith and determination.
         And the resolve to be happy.
         PS I knew a girl with a husband and two young adults (who moved in and out all the time) who was kicked out of her house which she was renting. She could only afford so much and could not find a place to rent. She put an add on Craig's List with the amount she could afford and was offered a place for $400.00 a month! It was out in the desert and she loved it! Luckily, she had a good car and could drive in and out of town.

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         1. 59

            Dudley Dorightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            Ummm, I believe she said she likes this guys and has told you repeatedly she has nowhere to go. I don't care if she sleeps with him, that her personal decision. She like the guy, the guy likes her and she needs a place to stay for a few months. I don't see the problem.

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            1. 77

               Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

               No, She does not like him enough to commit to him. Why should she stay one more second?
               
               She stated: "I wonder if he's just playing some cruel game which makes me angry and makes me want to play. I've been played many times in my life and am pretty good at getting people back when they play games on me."
               She also said:
               "Besides, he's already stated he doesn't feel the same way about me that I do him. He cares for me, I know. But even if he would accept, (marriage proposal from her) I'm not sure I would want to marry a man that didn't love me back."
               One can find happiness in life…
               ...and if one does not change ones life, one's life does not change...unless through accident or force. Take charge, sassygirl32, like your name indicates, before its too late. I'm sure all will work out in time, but, meanwhile your life matters.

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               1. 59

                  Dudley Dorightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  All I know is that she said he wanted to be friends because the ex is still in the picture, which means he thinks he can get hurt, which mean he must like her.
                  
                  I'm not sure what gives you the right to think you can make such big decisions for someone else. She said she has no place to go. Why would you tell someone it's better sleep in a car than on a sofa?

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                  1. 77

                     Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                     "yet we sleep in the same bed, go to church together, do things together with his sons, have met his dad a few months back and his mother and the rest of his family on thanksgiving, have met his friends, etc. We've never said we love each other or any thing like that."
                     
                     You are right. Each to their own. Who is anyone to say a thing?
                     
                     Sorry for being a busybody looking into other people's business here on HP forums.
                     Never again.

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                     1. 59

                        Dudley Dorightposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                        I find it interesting that we see our own lives from a different perspective than we do others. It's easy to see the hypocrisy in the lives of others. I see the hypocrisy in that quote as well.

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   3. 86

      Dreamworkerposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      You cannot have life both ways.  Either you have a real relationship as man and woman, or you don't.  However it does not seem like what you have is much of anything and is more a matter of convenience for both of you.
      
      I have seen many people try to live "loose ends" lives like the one you are describing and all they do is leave people in limbo and make them feel sort of lost.  He does not love you.  You do not love him.  You are friends.  Let that define your relationship and act accordingly.
      
      When you do this your life will become balanced again and you can move forward.  However, as long as you are sleeping in his bed, you are muddying the relationship waters.

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2. 60

   Kiss andTalesposted 9 years ago

   Well it is nice you have confidence to reach out here for help with your issues. And you will problerly get a lot of advice that might confuse you more.
   But I have learned valuble lessons as a young woman the hard way .so I can share a little wisdom with you.
   When you keep doing something the wrong way. Regroup. That means stop in your tracts . Change direction ,Like when you get lost walking or driving. Have some thinking time without the players in your life. Like driving a car again as example ,some one is giving bad directions or advice on your journey. Unhook.
   
   Again do not lean on others ,Because unforseen things do happen. Their circumstance could change leaving you out of their picture.
   Which means be responsible for yourself.
   Now the truth from God's word is pure and healthful and what you have stated is that you are living and sleeping with this person.
   Well morally you know already the answer. Regroup on that thought.
   Next you have no Spiritual support you need it . Without it you are in a boat with no paddle drifting with no direction. The Bible is our helper to live and be happy. But there is just certain steps we need to apply ,then we will be more sure of the rest of the path to take in your life.
   To sum it up the Missing links ! You have not mention spiritaul at all  ( problem ) 1
   You have not mention your own family line of support (problem ) 2
   Regroup from these 2 and you will see a differance.
   I hope this will help you as it has myself.

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   1. 72

      sassygrrl32posted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for the replies.
      @Kathryn: I never said I didn't have a job nor my own money because I do.  The house as is now unable to be lived in. It has been all but gutted and with no facilities, it would not only be unpleasant but impossible for me to use the yard as a toilet with neighbors so close. The house cannot be sold as it is in probate and with much debt.The debt must be cleared before it can be sold. I've already tried.
      It's easy for people to play armchair quarterback when they aren't in the situation. It's also easy for people to assume things they have no knowledge of. Kathryn, my suggestion to you is to ask the proper questions before making assumptions. Then proceed. The whole idea of living in the house while the work is done and doing a little at a time would be a wonderful idea if there was a toilet and I wasn't on somewhat of a time crunch as my ex(doing the work) wants to leave the area soon.
      
      I didn't go into full detail but there is no family I can turn to, my parents are deceased and no siblings. The house I thought could be pulled together in a couple of months has taken much longer than anticipated and much more money than I bargained for. My ex is good at what he does and has saved me money by doing the work. Of course, there is work that other contractors have done and be done up to code. When I say rebuild, that is what I mean. Everything in a house than can be done has had to be done with many more renovations to go.
      
      There are other extenuating circumstances I didn't go into. But the guy I'm living with is helping me out and I'm helping him too and his kids.
      
      I didn't go into what I want or don't want because I feel it is irrelevant to the situation. My 1st concern is getting my house done and getting out of this situation with as little emotional strife as possible.
      I'm working with a therapist and so far she hasn't encouraged me to get out of the situation because currently there is no way to get out of it. If I'm forced to live in a house with no facilities I may as well get in my car and head for parts unknown and that is what she is trying to keep me from doing. If I do that all I'm doing is running away from the situation. So the only recourse is to navigate through it even if it is uncomfortable. Believe me, there have been many times when I wanted to do nothing more than get in my car and leave and come back later. But the house, the problems, another house that's falling down(ex lives in that), a mess with a car in the shop for a year and a half with blown motor that I've fought with the warranty company for the same amount of time to put in another engine which they finally did only to still have problems and the mess my dad left me when he died would still be here with no resolve. So my therapist is working with me to keep me from leaving which is what I'd do and would have done a long time ago if not for her trying to keep me grounded. And taking on responsibilties with the guy I'm living with that keep me here.
      The sleeping arrangement I agree is off kilter but since his other son moved back in it kind of left us with not alot of choices in sleeping arrangements.
      
      As for what I want, I really care for the guy but he redefined it as a friendship(because my ex is still in my life working on the house) and there is nothing I can do about that and my therapist says it's not a good idea. So I'm trying to rise above all of the emotions and be in a place above all of it because this is life. My experience with friendships and relationships has never been good so now I concentrate(and have for a long time but am now getting more focus with the help of a therapist) on the things I believe I can accomplish and that is getting the house done and later concentrating on possibly getting an RV so I can travel with more comfort in the future, concentrating more on my photography and writing and being free. As free as one can be from emotions.
      
      That said, I appreciate the replies.

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      1. 77

         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I think you need to get a second opinion from another therapist. If I were your therapist, anything is better than sleeping with a man, sex or not, appearances matter…especially in a house where children are involved. Your urge to leave should not be ignored.  Are you SURE you can't live in your house? Are you sure you can't get that toilet in? If you live in it, things will get done faster out of necessity. Why do I harp on this? Because I lived in a fixer upper with no running water and no electricity for a year...with a two year old!  I was camping; I had a woodstove, though… chopped my own wood for heat up north in CA.  It rained all the time and I was cold… but happily alone. I'm sorry to have jumped to so many conclusions. I know its hard for you.

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3. 72

   sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

   @Kathryn: I don't disagree with possibly seeing another therapist. Right now I haven't the time to find someone. But it is something I'm considering after my ex brought it up. He supports therapy 100% but has said the same thing you are. The only problem is, they can only suggest the one real viable option I have and that is to live in my car. Don't get me wrong, I don't in the least mind living in a car. And a big automobile is not hard to sleep in. There is the issue of letting one idle at night to stay warm and I'm not so concerned about the lost fuel but how hard it is on the engine valves. I've already been through that with another car. And I've already been warned by the dealership and a transmission shop that I'm in the first stages of transmission failure. The last thing I need is to end up on the road with a failed tranny. Not to mention, leaving would leave me without a job(I do have other income but just enough for food, fuel and necessities) and no way to make my car payments.
   The house still has quite a ways to go(a minimum of 2 to 3 months, maybe longer depending on how much can get done). I can't get the toilet in and being over budget I can't hire anyone to do any more work. It's all on my ex now and with a full time job and hurting his back the work is at a snails pace now which is unfortunate but nothing I can do. The bathroom was completely gutted from floor to ceiling with it needing a complete new floor. The kitchen still has to be done, lighting(all of the fixtures had to be stripped out, tenants completely destroyed the house, broke windows, wrote on walls some of which we can't get off, stole appliances, flooded kitchen and bathroom, damaged empty attic, damaged pipes, broke chandeliers, flushed garbage down toilet and sinks to stop them up, left mountains of garbage in house and yard, even stole oil from oil tank), flooring, siding, plumber has to come back, etc.. I'm on a 6 week waiting list to get the furnace looked at. There is no other method of heating the house. I still have to figure out how I'm going to scrape together enough for a bed at least.
   I just got done dumping nearly $2300 in my cars. One of which is back in the shop. One is in both my name and my ex's. I'm told I will be putting in another $600 even after the warranty pays for what they will cover.
   
   Bottom line, my situation could be alot worse and as much I don't like this arrangement with the man I'm living with, I don't want to take the only viable option I have currently and end up sitting on the side of the road with a car I probably couldn't fix possibly having to hitchhike my way back home then still not having a place to live since the guy I'm living with wouldn't allow me to come back. My only option being to ask my ex for help and moving in with him. I'd just be trading one bad situation for another possibly worse.
   I have to be realistic and way out the pros and cons and right now the cons outweigh the pros of living in my car until the house is done. If I did decide to live in my car I would have to travel to Florida where it's warmer and if I had a problem I'd be hitchhiking a long way. This option of being stuck does not appeal to me.
   The only thing I can do is tough it out and put boundaries in place for the living situation and make it clear what this arrangement is and what it's not.

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   1. 77

      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yikes.  Complicated is an understatement!
      Well, nothing in life is perfect and thank goodness for that!
      I can't believe your house situation!
      You need a carpenter crew with cameras to come in and help you. I don't know if anyone in Hollywood or elsewhere knows the links to one…
      Only one word comes to mind at this point: HELP!
      I have never lived in a car and the idea is not appealing in the least.
      I guess you could at least be thankful to the man allowing you to sleep in his bed. What a kind soul! Are you sure you don't love HIM?
      Maybe you could just give the house to your ex and have done with it.
      And marry this kind soul.
      That would be a good Hollywood ending, anyway.
      ( and actually this is a good idea for a script. Keep a journal!)
      
      ...thats all I know.

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      1. 72

         sassygrrl32posted 9 years agoin reply to this

         I do keep a journal for therapy. Haven't done that in yrs. But it is helpful.
         
         Even if I could give the house to my ex with it in probate I wouldn't and he doesn't want the house anyway. He doesn't like one of the neighbors. That's another debacle of a story. Let's just say, when I lived there a number of yrs ago she caused alot of trouble not to mention she's loud, noisy and nosey. She seems like she's calmed down a little now that she had her daughter. She's still loud until her husband comes home from work. But a little better.
         
         The car living isn't so bad once you get used to it. For yrs before I left my ex, I would hit the road and often sleep in my car for days sometimes weeks when his drinking would get so bad I could no longer stand it. Once when I called the cops on him they told me to go somewhere and sleep in my car. After that, I figured I didn't need them telling me to do this. I could do it on my own.
         Once you get used to it it really isn't that bad.
         
         I do care about the man I'm living with but have done everything possible to guard myself. I don't want to get hurt. Been there, done that, plenty of times.
         When I first came to live with him(I'd been on the road for 1.5 yrs) we got carried away and jumped into a BF/GF situation and talked about a future together, life partners, etc. before we should have and it was moving way too fast. Eventually we(rather he) decided we should be friends and I thought this to be a good idea since we were moving too fast. The only problem is, things didn't really change that much. We just stopped calling ourselves BF/GF and continued like that line hadn't been drawn(rather he did). We still fought like a couple. And it became more family oriented with his other son moving in and the kids being with him almost exclusively and not going to their Mom's very much at all. I've tried to talk to him about the situation to no avail concerning his kids. Have tried to tell him his kids are not dummies and what they see is what they are going to believe over him saying we are just friends. He thinks they simply understand this arrangement and maybe they do. He seems to be a good dad in every other way and they are both respectful.
         
         You're right, complicated is an understatement. It was complicated enough before current guy entered the picture with my ex and the big mess I have with everything.
         
         Oh and for tenant problems, someone I know had a tenant flush crushed glass down his toilet to mess up his septic system and just yesterday I was talking to someone about flooring and he was telling me that someone that worked for him was telling him ho he was going to mess up the rental he was living in because the landlord evicted him for not paying rent. Needless to say, this lousy tenant was promptly fired when he was stupid enough to tell his boss this.

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         1. 77

            Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

            well, basically if you had sex with the current person you, are actually married in a spiritual way. Thats why he lets you stay. Plus you probably help out around the house and he has your company. You are already married… you just forgot to have the ceremony.  Maybe you can make it enjoyable and start being flirty.   I would say he loves you. But, you figure you don't want to be married. He would probably be sad if you left. Could you commit to him if he asked you or wanted you to? Or not. and why not.
            And I know tenants can be really awful. Thats why it is risky to have a house or apartment building for leasing purposes. My dad keeps his rent low on his upstairs downstairs duplex just so he won't have problems with renters.

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            1. 72

               sassygrrl32posted 9 years agoin reply to this

               Didn't have intercourse but did get sexual. He already flirts enough. If he asked me to commit, I think, yes, I could commit. Of course it scares me to death. The idea of actually being married. I've never been legally married. My ex and I were not legally married, just went through a commitment ceremony. Current guy says it wasn't real because we were not legally married therefore truly committed to each other. This has been the source of quite a few debates. Not arguments, just discussion. He believes being married is the only true commitment. My ex and I didn't run around for years living together saying we were friends. MUch of which came about to get the people at the church we attended off our backs.
               But financially we were very uneven. Meaning he had lost everything with his late wife(she was addicted to prescription meds and spent alot of money) and I has already accumulated some of my own and knew when my dad passed I would receive a sizable amount of money(not huge huge but a good bit). Even though my dad loved my ex he didn't support a marriage neither did my uncles. And it's a good thing we didn't have a legal marriage because I would have lost a sizable amount of my money(money that my dad worked his fingers to the bone to see that I would be taken care of when he died) if we'd had to divorce or stay married and support his beer habit to keep from losing the money. I could work for the rest of my life and never accumulate half of what my dad left me. So this is a big factor when I meet someone. It's not just about me saving for retirement, etc. it's about not willingly giving away what my dad worked so hard for and did without so I wouldn't have to. I've done my best to invest wisely in what was left me. I've made mistakes but keep most invested so I can't easily touch it.
               I would prefer to find someone on equal footing or better so if we got married and divorced he'd be less inclined to take what  I have and there's no guarantee. But it's extremely difficult for me to find relationships that last with anyone now throw this extra bit in and I'm almost completely screwed. They just don't work out. I'm just unlucky in love and have pretty much accepted that I'm going to have to live the single life. And if I find someone to live with I'm doing pretty well. Not ideal. But sometimes love comes in varying shades.
               I'm not even sure current guy is able to love anyone. And I kinda get the impression he thinks if you stay around someone long enough you will fall in love with them or a long term relationship can exist on friendship alone without love. I'm still trying to understand this one. We get along well and we are very attracted to each other but in the long term I'm not sure it could exist on those traits alone. I don't think he wants me to go anywhere and there's definitely attraction, intimacy, friendship and a connection I believe but I'm trying to wrap my head around this kind of relationship/arrangement. He says what we're in can't be defined and it's definitely outside the box where dating, etc got skipped.
               But for now I just have to wait for my house to be done and see what happens. My ex thinks we need to enter a traditional dating relationship and see how it goes.

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                  Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

                  Astrology time: What is your sign?  What is the current's sign? What was your dad's sign? You are DONE with your ex. Why doesn't he get that? Has he stopped drinking? Would you ever go back to him?

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4. 60

   Kiss andTalesposted 9 years ago

   Have you just thought about being with out either one. I think you are the glue trying to keep this together. Or mabye you are wanting support of your choice . I really think it starts with you. As and old saying we teach people how to treat us.

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5. 72

   sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

   @kiss andTales: For now, it's up in the air for doing without both. My ex is rebuilding my house so it's kind of difficult to get rid of him until it's done and I need a place to live until the house is done so I don't have to live in my car. Which as I've said before isn't as unappealing as it sounds and certainly doable in a bigger automobile. But there are all kinds of problems with that which I've already posted about and I would have to go somewhere warm to live in the car which would make it all but impossible to oversee the house so the house wouldn't get done. It's like I'm standing in the middle of a tornado and there's no way out except to wait until it passes.
   
   I'm a pisces, my dad was a capricorn and current guy is a scorpio. I'm most definitely done with my ex and would never consider having more than a friendship which we have maintained to some degree. But he won't stop drinking. He stayed sober for months but recently went back to drinking. Not all the time of course because he has to work but when off he's drinking and I can't stand that.

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      Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Can your inner family assist you. Like relatives. Some times we have other options and we judge the situation wrong who will help. I just always believe without a doubt that God almighty would never abandon you .there is help. But not in the way of pushing you into breaking his moral laws.
      But as we conduct ourself in consideration of him .we have his blessings and there is plenty of help.
      You mention these two men the most in your life. Yet surly there are others you are not mentioning .

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      1. 77

         Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

         Options:
           1. Well, of course you are comfortable with a Scorpio male! A sweet tender Pisces like you and a strong Scorpio! Oh my gosh just marry him and live happily ever after. He'll help you! You'll help him! Go for it! Stop dragging your feet and being afraid of commitment!  Loosen up, propose to him and get engaged. If he says no, then you are merely dating… by living there.
         
         2. Keep quiet and don't rock the boat. If you can sleep there, just continue on as you are. Sleep is good enough for now.  Keep that journal, pray / meditate.
         
         And ask yourself if you won the lottery what would you want to do?
         
         Isn't weird that survival is so darn difficult in this life?
         
         PS  Your Dad tried to help you, being the ambitious Capricorn that he was. That was very kind of him. But remember, you can't take it with you. Love is the important thing. I just saw Interstellar. I liked it, but it was very science fictiony and somewhat unbelievable… it had a nice underlying message / plot though. Take Mr. Scorpio out for a date tonight and see it!
         
         Signed,
         Dr. Joy Smothers, Relationship Advice Expert, (as per one of my Hubs.)

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6. 72

   sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

   @Kiss andTales: I have only a couple of relatives and not here and they would't help. My family has a very clear idea about things and that is to do things yourself, no matter how you have to do them, whether right or wrong. And problems are your alone. I'm a grown woman and it's my responsibility to get myself out of this mess and if doing so is the wrong way then so be it. That's basically their view. My aunt said there's no way she'd let anyone move in with her even for a short amount of time. But she can sit up on her soapbox playing armchair quarterback telling me what she thinks I should do and her answer when I explained the situation was tough it out with current guy until my house is done. Which with ex's work is slow and even slower now that he's back drinking. I'm starting to think my house is never going to be done. If I have to hire someone to finish the work I will simply have to start saving until I get enough to finish it. That leaves me living with current guy or simply moving back into my car.
   Unfortunately, Kiss andTales I don't have any family to help me and don't have friends that are close enough to help me either. This one's on me just like every other problem I've encountered in my life. I'm used to dealing with problems on my own without help and don't expect that will change any time soon. Perhaps God's blessing is current guy opening his home to me even though it isn't ideal. It's certainly better than me living in my car in the cold. A blessing done the wrong way is better than no blessing at all. And sometimes what we think are not blessings because they aren't packaged properly are blessings better than we could have hoped for. And perhaps I'm supposed to learn yet another lesson.
   Unfortunately, these two men are the best help I'm gonna get.
   
   @Kathryn: I know without a doubt that if I proposed he would refuse. He's not that kind of man. He believes it's the man who takes the lead. So asking him to marry me would be silly. Besides, he's already stated he doesn't feel the same way about me that I do him. He cares for me, I know. But even if he would accept, I'm not sure I would want to marry a man that didn't love me back. And that's the hardest part of all this. I do care deeply for him and wish I could just blow through this having some fun and treating it like fun times until something better comes along and my house gets finished. But then again, this is the story of my life, I care for a man, love him and eventually he finds someone he can love and that person is not me. So I've pretty much just swore off relationships. And accepted the reality that love doesn't exist, not for me anyway. Well, not to be returned. I think my ex was the only person that loved me or came close.
   Now I'm trying to just figure out how to squash the feelings I have so I don't get hurt any more. It's not easy being in a situation like this, knowing the person you care about just doesn't feel the same way and hoping it will change, trying to figure out ways to change it, finally accepting it, dealing with the pain, trying to be a good friend but falling into the same trap of hope, knowing that for now there is no way out and accepting this isn't really healthy. Especially, when his actions and words convey something else and I wonder if he's just playing some cruel game which makes me angry and makes me want to play. I've been played many times in my life and am pretty good at getting people back when they play games on me.
   Went on a little tangent there but that's where I'm at. Current guy wonders why I put so much stock/love into tangible objects like cars, computers, etc., stuff but things can't hurt me and I know objects can't love me back. It's the perfect relationship.
   
   For now, just trying to live and deal with my life. I feel like I should be grateful that someone wants me around, even for a short time. JUst learning to accept that there may be alot of Mr. Right Now's if never a Mr. Right. Perhaps my Mr. Right already passed to the other side and is waiting. And trying to learn to be happy with that. Acceptance can be so very difficult.

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   Kiss andTalesposted 9 years ago

   I am very sorry for your problem and I really do understand what you are saying. But I can not  dismiss the thought that you are the one that knows this is not the right road to travel. Because if you did you would not be asking us.
   There is a scripture that comes to mind .
   There is a scripture that says this very clearly
   King James Version Pr 10:22 The blessing of the LORD, it maketh rich, and he addeth no sorrow with it.
   The key here is this is not a blessing because you are having troubles as written.
   Next The Heavenly Father does not award or give blessings when you are violating moral law.
   This could be your road block. Notice what the scripture says.
   
   James 4:3 3 When you do ask, you do not receive because you are asking for a wrong purpose, so that you may spend it on your fleshly desires.
   
   Until we get it right it will not turn out right.
   Your statement if I have to do wrong .then let it be. Is not God's choice.
   It is yours.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Sleep is important. If you can sleep, good.

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   Kiss andTalesposted 9 years ago

   You can not be a busy body if people willfully supply you information about them self on a platter.
   I think people want to be approved of what ever their choice may be. But to be real and truthful is more helpful then to sugar coat the truth.
   I am straight forward to my own family and anyone here on HP. To add I do know a school mate that walks in her shoes, she relocated and moved in with a man, there are good days and bad.but the bad days are overwhelming and often ,He cheated on her. After 7 years never proposed until he got caught cheating.she is still not married 9 years of her life.
   She is past her 40's the truth is it is not right for her also , the road is not smooth.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yes, it is a case study.  We can learn from the mistakes of others. She said maybe this (the forums?) is not the place for this discussion. Yet, here it is for all us know-it-alls to comment on. I like all your advice by the way, Kiss and Tells, and agree with it. The precepts of Christ come from love. God does not want us to suffer. He ultimately wants us to have "abundant" lives as we make our individual ways back "home." One can tell that we all care about a good life for her. She needs to care about that for herself.

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   Kiss andTalesposted 9 years ago

   I totally agree with you Kathryn .Some times people have already made their mind up of by what they have done. They just want a stamp of approval from others as being right.I can share the truth as I know it .but my opinion does not matter it is between her and God about her choices.

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      Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

      Yep.

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    sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

    @Kathryn: I have taken charge of my life. I'm dealing with this house and putting it back together. And I most definitely care about my life.
    I never wanted or expected things would turn into such a big mess and that feelings, etc. would come into the picture. And I'm doing it the best way I can without having any resources.
    
    I realize that the majority of people are not going to agree with this situation for moral reasons. But the bottom line is: I needed a place to stay while I get my house rebuilt. And that really is the bottom line. I'm realistic. I know had I stayed in my car and tried to do what I'm doing, it wouldn't have worked. It may have for a short time. But there are problems with living in a car. One, it got cold and that would have forced me to leave to a warmer place leaving the problem of the house still to be done. Two, you can't stay in one spot living in a car for any length of time before you get hassled by the cops. You can for maybe a month but much longer than that and you must leave the area for another. It doesn't mean you have to travel more than 30 or 40 miles. But you still have to and not return for awhile.
    
    If anyone in the church I go to knew they'd be exactly of the same moral mindset. But would any of them step forward and let me stay for a little while until my house was finished? Of course not. It's easy for people to hand out their opinions especially if they've never been in a similar situation. And it's also easy for people to tell others what they think without offering help.  Not that I expect help from anyone. I'm used to doing things on my own and know that's how it is.
    
    @Kiss andTales: Your schoolmate that's in a similar situation: Have you offered to help her by opening your home to her until she can find a place of her own? Have you tried to find someone that would be willing to open their home to her if you can't? Have you offered other assistance? If so, what have you done? And don't say prayer(not saying you shouldn't pray but there should be more). I heard a sermon not too long ago where the pastor said, "Don't say, I'll pray, get off of your behinds and go help or go see them."
    That said, maybe you should offer to help your schoolmate if you haven't already. And if she has refused offer again.

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Well, you have turned this into an excuse for your misery.
       If you want to live in misery until your house is finished, or whatever, have at it… why tell us all about it?
       We gave you our best bananas and now you throw them back at us as though they were old banana peels, instead.  Maybe Kiss and Tell should open up her house to YOU!  Maybe she would, if she could... But she CAN'T!
       and ME EITHER! If I invited you to my house to live… You would HATE it!
       GOSH!
       We wish you the best. We really do.
       BFN

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          Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          First I shared my story with you just to let you know that I do understand , that is why I replied  to your post. And the last thing I did was to reveal her story to you.
          You have already made your mind up before you posted to us. You already are living with the guy of your choice.
          What did you expect of us . Me I do not tell a lie just to make some one feel better about a choice that is questionable  and against God's moral law. I spoke the truth , I shared why it was the truth and you disagree .that is fine for you.
          But do not tell me what I can do for my friend because you do not know What I have done for my friend.Next that does not make things right just because you disagree with the answer. It is what it is. You can not turn a wrong into a right.
          But when you do find this out you will know what to do. Take care and I do want what is right for you
          But you have to want it too. KT .

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    sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

    @Kiss and Tales: I appreciate ur thoughts. I asked for a definition. I'm not saying what is happening is right. What I am saying is I'm trying to get my house done without moving into my car to live which would do my house no good from 800 miles away. I can't stay in a cold climate and truthfully I don't mind living and sleeping in a car. It would be so easy to just walk away and say F*** it, this is all wrong, I'll live in my car and no doubt be happier for a little while. But what happens when I'm not anymore? And my house is right where I left it? Unfinished. And waiting but no money to fix it, my ex has left the area so I can't rely on him to fix it and if he is still in the area I have to resort to living with him until it is done. Again I'm trading one evil for another.
    I would like nothing more than to get in my car and head south but that won't fix my house or solve any problem.
    This is what my therapist is working so hard to keep me from doing. Every time I get into a bad situation and see no outlet other than to leave(and if I left right now abandoning the house is what I'd have to do because I can't sleep in a car in the cold) I'm going to end up doing this again and again instead of staying and facing the problems head on. It may not be moral but it is the only way. I have to wade through it. I can't go around it.
    I don't like it the way it is but right now I see no other way except see it through.
    I can't keep running away when things get tough. Or I'll be doing it when I'm an old lady. Right now I have no other options. Maybe in a few weeks my house will be done and if it isn't maybe there will be other options. Until then, I have to face it.
    
    @Kathryn: Same to you. This situation isn't ideal but until I find a better place to live(without calling my car home) or my house is finished I have to wade through it rather than run away.
    It's like you people are deaf. Right now I'm in a place I may not like but am steadily going forward getting my house done which I can't do from somewhere else.
    It's easy for people to sit on soapboxes telling others what they think they should do when in reality if faced with the same situation they probably wouldn't do what they tell others to do. It's easy for people to tell others what their life is like when they have no idea about their life.
    Now you ladies might find car living fun and might not have a problem with it and might actually like it better than me but I'm not really interested in going back to it.
    
    Before you suggest I go back to that lifestyle you might try living in yours for a few months or better yet, try it for a year and half and see how much you like it. Because I'd love to have tips that might make it easier for me should I have to go back to it. And I'd love to hear what 4 door mid size to large sedan is the most comfortable and has the least problems.
    Have either one of you ever lived in your car? How well did it go? Did you like it? Can you offer any tips that would aid me?
    And while your at it tell me how to keep from burning the valves when it has to idle for extended periods to stay warm. I would really appreciate that information because I could really use it. What are some other options for staying warm? What are options for bathing other than truck stops, they are expensive and walmart bathrooms?
    
    I'm not asking for anyone to let me move in with them but if you are going to suggest I live homeless then give me some useful information that I can really use.

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Wow… This is an interesting topic. How to Live on the Road.
       
       Have any books been written on it?
       It would be so interesting to do some research and field work and come up with a book… what a fascinating project that would be. Actually you are already knowledgeable about this! Have you written any hubs about your experiences living on the road?
       
       As far as I know, Jesus did not own or rent a home. He went from place to place accepting the generosity of friends and neighbors and those he knew i.e. the disciples' families, I would imagine.
       You could interview successful homeless people. I think I read once that many with displaced home situations are living along the Sacramento River. Probably camping out together living like Indians in tribes. Who knows!  One could travel there and check that scene... if it really exists. It's a very interesting idea… Living on the road… I actually took a bike ride (10 speed) along the coast of CA all the way up to Oregon to visit my friends in Hood River.
       I slept in bushes (in a sleeping bag which I strapped onto the bike during the day) right along PCH with tarps on top of me on the way there and the way back. It was Sept through November. I could go 40 miles a day. I ended up heading south when it got cold, though. Bike and all. I met so many interesting and helpful people. My back-back got stolen once, near Monterey, but the police made sure I got it back after they found it on the side of a mountain, clothes strewn all over. Those were the days when you used traveler's checks, which of course, I had.
       Are you up for a mission?
       Do you have in Sagittarius in your chart? Actually, I would recommend a good astrologer!  One could reveal your strengths and weaknesses along with talents you can utilize and problems you can overcome. You are actually in a position to learn a lot… and gain a lot of personal strength... which might even be an understatement.
       PS: You could design a car suitable for living in. I had a '62 VW camper-van once. It was totally suitable for living on the road: ice box, fold-down tables, fold-out bed…checkered curtains on the louvered windows.
       If I still had that camper-van, I might take this project on myself!
       And with our smart phones anything is possible!
       
       PMC

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          Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

          I find your problem very interesting, 1 you work, 2 you own a home so you are not homeless, 3 you have a therapist .
          Just on those 3 things alone tell a whole lot . If you own a home . You can make that work for you.
          By getting assistance from the local welfare office, and you say you have a therapist who pays that bill.
          The same source  can pay for your shelter .which is more important.
          There is a puzzle but you are only supplying the pieces that you want to use.

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    sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

    @Kiss andTales: I'll be able to live in my house once the house is done or rather there's a toilet in it. Unfortunately, neighbors are too close or the yard would work just fine. That's why I say if I decided on alternate living arrangements my car would have to do for now til the house is done. The car would be fine if it were hot but it's not.
    I don't pay very much for my therapist and don't so often. I live on a very tight income and there isn't any left over for alternate place like an apartment. THere's no puzzle. It's hard sometimes for people to make sense or understand. And people really don't comprehend the whole living in a car bit. Which is understandable.
    
    @Kathryn: I don't know if there are any books but there are websites dedicated to living on the road, mostly RV's and vans but some write about cars. Some of what they write I find totally unusable but interesting to read nonetheless.
    I have written about my road/car living on my blog but this is a good idea about writing a hub about it. I should. I haven't found it too bring it much traffic though so it would be more of a personal venture making it hubpages worthy.
    I find a sedan like a chevy impala, ford taurus or toyota camry more up my alley. Although some say american made cars are more problematic. I really didn't see that with my taurus that I ended up getting rid of. It never broke down on the road and always gave plenty of warning when there was a problem. Drove it to almost 250k when the power seat went out and I got rid of it. It was a good travel car. Not nearly as nice as an impala though.

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       Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       I still think their are puzzle pieces missing and really I believe you have other choices you just like the one your in.  Your a woman their are private shelters that can assist you for sleep even if you do not want to live there. You have a little income which qualifies you for some kind of emergency help.
       I believe you have made the choice that fits your own reasoning .

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       That last paragraph is a hilarious beginning for your hub! Keep on! You might be a comedienne and you don't even know it! I love it!

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    sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

    @Kiss and Tales:
    
    Being a woman doesn't necessarily mean I qualify for help especially not one coming from a nonabusive situation. Nor would I feel right(if they allowed it) about taking a spot that an abused woman might need more than me. My car is an option. Not one that will allow me to get my house finished but still an option. A car isn't an option(it's much less of an option) for an abused woman with kids.
    There are no puzzle pieces missing. Not understanding the situation doesn't mean there's something missing. As I said before not too many people can understand my current situation or my past situation.
    
    @Kathryn: I'm confused about what is so funny. Impala's and Taurus's are good travel cars. In fact, they are great travel cars. And easy to sleep in. And not that problematic. Like all cars repairs and maintenance must be done. Some say american cars need more repairs but I've no experience or statistics to dispute it. It really boils down to what a person prefers. And the impala gets great highway gas mileage(31-32 mpg) for a larger car.
    They do warn of impending problems. This is important. You don't want a car that just breaks down on the side of the road.
    There are people unfortunately
    Anyway, I'm more of a serious person so I don't always see the hilarity in something.

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       Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       There is problem you are telling us you are misplaced ,you need help , But you do not see yourself in that light. Anytime you have to sleep in a car that is homeless .a car was not designed to sleep in like a home. A fact is that carbon monoxide can kill you doing this . I know a death that happen like that. Also The car does not have toilet convenience nether . I think you like what your choice is
       I still see no excuse for living with a man against moral law.
       Also people seem to lose this point . Where is your  loyalty to your God ? The test you are answering to is .my choice is more important then a choice to do what is right.
       Tests of our faith is not when things are going good for yourself. it  is when you are faced with decisions that test our faith on the  morals of God.
       Reference Bible Jas 1:14 But each one is tried by being drawn out and enticed by his own desire. 
       Reference Bible Jas 1:15 Then the desire, when it has become fertile, gives birth to sin; in turn, sin, when it has been accomplished, brings forth death. 
       
       Reference Bible Jas 1:22 However, become doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving yourselves with false reasoning.

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    sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

    I've already tried to get help. I see myself as surviving and know there are many others in much worse situations. Some don't have an automobile to sleep in. Some are in far more dire circumstances. I consider myself lucky in that this man gave me a place to stay because if he hadn't I would still be sleeping in my car and after 1.5 yrs it was getting very difficult. I could have continued only because there would have been no choice.
    And he could tell me to leave at any time before my house is done. Fortunately, he hasn't done so.
    I don't see how carbon monoxide is a problem outside. I've done this off and on for 7 yrs. It doesn't have a bathroom, granted but I always park in truck stops, rest areas and walmart parking lots. You get out of the car and walk inside to their restrooms. Or if you can't wait you get out and go beside the car. Heck, I changed clothes in my car, slept in it, eat in it when it was late and so on. And clean up in walmart family bathrooms if they have one enough to keep ur stench from knocking people down. It isn't ideal but doable. It has to be.
    
    It isn't a matter of following or not following God's law. You tell me on one hand to follow God's law and that would be me leaving but on the other a car isn't made for living. So which is it? You're right but if I left I wouldn't have a choice. Not yet anyway. I've went over this already. I have a couple of options. Live in my car, live in the woods. I think the car is a safer option or stay put until my house is done.
    Quite truthfully, if we were all to follow God's law we'd get rid of our computers, phones, vehicles, utilities, jobs(since most demand the business comes first and if each business was looked into you'd find they are not following God's law with greedy owners and CEO's and when you work for these businesses you are putting more money into their greedy pockets), grow ur own food, kill ur own meat, make ur own clothing from animal skins and live off the land without all of societies distractions. Think about greedy retailers who get their stuff from China and similar countries that make children work for ungodly pay, greedy food growers who pile pestcides and insecticides on fruit and vegetables and use preservatives, etc. where many are cancer causing agents. And let's not forget the greedy oil companies starting wars and mucking up the atmosphere and environment with internal combustion engines. And all these entities dumping waste. Restaurants filling their food with God knows what and none of it is healthy. None of this is Godly. None of it.

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       Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       No I just do not believe what is the right thing comes out of doing the wrong thing which have been proven.
       You want to say it is ok and believe it is ok when it is not.
       But written is what will stand.
       Reference Bible 1Co 6:9 What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men, 
       Reference Bible 1Co 6:10 nor thieves, nor greedy persons, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners will inherit God’s kingdom. 
       Reference Bible 1Co 6:11 And yet that is what some of YOU were. But YOU have been washed clean, but YOU have been sanctified, but YOU have been declared righteous in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ and with the spirit of our God. 
       So no matter how you see it .it is not the way God see it.
       And  also I do not see how this computer is breaking any moral laws . It is a machine
       Not human like yourself.

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          sassygrrl32posted 9 years agoin reply to this

          @Kiss andTales: Then you would have no problem giving up all of the worlds possessions like vehicles, utilities, etc. to live off the land and kill your own food and make your own clothing.
          Look beyond the computer itself. THe machines are not inherently bad but take a look at those behind these machines. Are they Godly people?
          I can certainly tell you that most businesses are not(rather those running said businesses). Certainly not when fueled by greed and how many are not?
          When you give your money to businesses that are ungodly and greedy this makes you no better.
          Just because you may not live with a man without marriage doesn't make you better or put you in a position of judging.
          I know you can't say you've never lied or done anything wrong. No matter how small. Maybe you thought it didn't matter. No one is perfect.
          Truth is, it is all but impossible to live by biblical standards without going back and living in a biblical environment. I know no one wants to hear this but to truly live by Godly standards it does require we all give up these amenities we've grown accustomed to.

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             Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

             We are talking about morals here. I am not focus on the subject of material things.
             I am focused on what you are saying.
             And if you really do care about your spiritual life then it will truly reflect from your actions not what you say. Because people can say all day they love you.but what you do and how  you do it is proof.
             does your lifestyle show him that you care.
             You and only you can answer that. But do not fool yourself to think he will over look it .He will not.

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    tlcsposted 9 years ago

    All the time you are sharing a bed together to me this would be classed as a relationship not just a friendship of convenience. You have to make your mind up what you want to do and how you want to play the relationship rather than him making the decision that you are friends only. So, I would say you need to talk.

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       Kathryn L Hillposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       Really, if she's cozy and he lets her stay there and she can sleep just fine… something is going right. We could just let it be, I would say! If she is sleeping in his bed and they are just friends (or more,) it is setting a bad examples for the children… well, that is the most important issue, in my opinion. In all other ways, it sounds like a typical marriage.
       What do the kids think? What is it teaching them?
       What does the Bible have to say about this?

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    sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

    Kiss and tales:   So you don't think environmental waste, damaging the atmosphere, cancer killing pesticides, etc a moral issue? Well I do!!
    
    As for my lifestyle, why don't you go live in your car for a couple of years then get back with me and let me know if it's something you'd be eager to go back to. If so, kudos to you. And let me know what vehicle you found so comfortable and accommodating.....

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       Kiss andTalesposted 9 years agoin reply to this

       To sassy this subject you brought up and posted about yourself . You already made a dicision before posting this on HP.
       So you do not like my reply .i did not expect you to since you like the choice you have already made.
       I can not live your life I live my own. But I have learned that if you rely on your own understanding which you are doing you are rejecting God's .
       King James Version Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.
       King James Version Pr 3:6 In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
       
       Between you and him he knows what choices you can make.that is suitable for your survival. You can not fool him.
       But you can say what you wish here when we do not know all the facts.
       
       What you have stated is that you are sleeping with a man that you are not married to.
       That is a wrong as far as God is concern.
       What and where I sleep is taken care of by God.
       Because I take care not to offend him.

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    sassygrrl32posted 9 years ago

    Kiss and Tales: I didn't ask for advice on whether what I'm doing is right or wrong. I merely asked for a definition regarding it a relationship, friendship, etc.
    
    Like I said before, go live in your car and get back to me on whether you find it accommodating and/or like it. You might have a different perspective.
    You have a high and mighty attitude that makes you think you will never end up in a situation like mine. I hope for your sake you never know what it is like to be in a homeless situation. Living right doesn't guarantee you will not end up living in your car or in the woods for that matter.
    Before you dispense judgment go live like I have, in a car, and get back to me....

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