Questioning People's Love for God

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61
Phil Perezposted 8 years ago
There was this very enticing and interesting question I read on the internet about people loving God. Specifically, why do everything in your power to please God when God is supposed to love you already; is supposed to accept you for who you are? I must say, people are selfish in terms of their own definition of "love." That is, them asking for entrance and sanctuary in Heaven for the good they have done. There is a huge contradiction happening right now. That is definitely not what love is. So I ask you, why do you love God, and how do you love God (by how, I mean what sort of ways) ?
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1. 64
  Craig Suitsposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It amazes me that all these people below claim fact after fact about their god when no one on the entire planet knows a damn thing about a god or anything close. Humanity has had hundreds if not thousands of gods and for some reason, all of them are invisible and none of them ever presented themselves for a little well deserved authentication, It is so obvious it's pathetic, there is no god as humans perceive one to be and even if there was, he/she certainly isn't very friendly towards us humans. Get out of your religious organizationally created and supported cocoons humanity. Put your time, money and efforts into the good and survival of humanity rather than walking around all day praising the lord who could care less if you live or die corroborated by the easy million plus and innocent believers that met horrible deaths in just the last few years from "gods" natural disasters. The days of believing in fairy tales are over, that is if you wish to survive...
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  Felicia Lawyerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I love God because he first loved me. I try to do better because I want to please Him. I try not to take his love for granted. I love Him even when I don't get my way. I know that he loves me even when I don't do right.. I love him because He sacrificed his only Son for my sins.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That's my point, how do you know all this? From the Bible? If so, that's not reliable enough to justify His love.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  FOR YOU!
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No, because it's objectively true. Bringing in subjective reasoning is flawed. My opinion has nothing to do with the truth of the matter. I'm not saying the Bible is completely wrong. It has its shares of accurate statements and claims but must we not forget, the Bible was written by people; followers of Christ who in fact, was also a human being. Why does one person get the chance to be the Son of God/Man and nobody else does? What made Jesus so special? Nobody knows for sure...
  
  Any book is still not enough proof. By enough, I mean 100% but I understand the difficulty it is to obtain 100% proof. We can't even unlock more of our cerebral capacity but we can say we know God, understand God and love God? I cannot understand.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  People say they understand God, but of course they don't. They just project their feelings and ideas onto God. Then they love the false image they've created.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  EXACTLY!
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  Felicia Lawyerposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes he has presented himself. Once I opened my eyes instead of just listening to the opinions of others. He most definitely did authenticate Himself. Over and over again. If you let him He'll do the same for you. He will not impose HImself. He has to be invited.
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Caleb DRCposted 8 years ago
As far as getting into heaven is concerned, God does not love us already, and He will not accept us for who we are. To be saved we must stop sinning, accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, and get to know God by study of Scripture. By definition, Lord means He can tell us what to do and we do it.

As far as how do we love God, that is answered in the first paragraph.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That is very interesting, Caleb! I never thought about God not loving us already. I mean it makes sense. After all, why would He put us on Earth (assuming that's where we began living) if He already understood each and every one of us individually? He's testing us! That's very plausible. I enjoyed your insight very much.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Of course, God loves us already! But we may not love God. God is impartial and loves unconditionally. It is we who do not perceive Him while restlessly pursuing our own goals, without thought of God and his reality. If God does not love us why should we love him???? Knowing God by scripture is a good start. But, by itself is not enough.
  ...as far as what I think.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  But what does unconditional mean? Does it make logical sense, Kathryn?
  We don't even have the right definition for love (or else people wouldn't be trying to still find their own perception of it). It's difficult to say that without reason, God loves before reason is involved...I believe that to be implausible. Logically, there must be reason before anything is done. Just like Einstein said: with every action, comes an equal and opposite reaction.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Does your own father only love you when you only do what he wants?
  Did God give us free will?
  Does God only love us when we do NOT have free will?
  NO! He gave us free will and loves us no matter what we do. He can't help it.
  If you never had a child you might not get this.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Philosophically, he "loves" me if he learned to accept me for who I am. My father helped create me, with a limited understanding of how my mind would work. With God, assuming He exists, He created me understanding completely how my mind works. Now why must we prove to Him how good we could be by not sinning if He loves us already and unconditionally? Will He still love us if we disobey or do not comply to His demands?
  
  I'm still very young to have a child, Kathryn hahaha.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "Will He still love us if we disobey or do not comply to His demands?"
  That is part of religious doctrine and dogma. Do not go there.
  
  God loves us unconditionally.
  
  If you are an adult you could have a child.
  Imagine how you would feel if you had a son.
  You would feel 100% unconditional love for your child.
  Your son might not do what you want once he is past fifteen years of age, but why? because he does not understand that you want the best for him. He wants to do things his own way.
  You would wish him luck and tell him to get back to you after he learns from the school of hard knocks that his way will not work.
  Would you hold a grudge?
  No!
  You would be happy when he comes back of his own accord.
  Your love would never diminish for any reason.
  
  Oftentimes children DO know what is best for themselves and DO make good choices. Their fathers rejoice at their children's successes... and learn from their children.
  Father, God, is better than human fathers in this way. He wants what is best AND knows what is best.
  When you are ready to listen, He will be there smiling as he always has been and will ever be.
  
  TWISI
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  But that's not love, I have to accept that issue within myself to love my son first of all. There's a difference between caring and loving. When families abandon and shun their children because no amount of professional help, or interventions, or anything else is of any use so they send them on the streets. Is that still unconditional love ? I hardly think so...
  
  But that actually is true that you mention, "He wants to do things his own way. You would wish him luck." But it takes accepting that about yourself that he will learn his own way instead of your way. Like I said, there's a difference between care and love. Subtle as it might be, there are significant differences.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  care is love and love is care. Acceptance is both. God accepts us as we are…
  
  But do we accept ourselves????
  That is eventually the heart of the matter.
  Are we fine for ourselves?
  why do I meditate?
  because I want to know myself better. my real self.
  and the Self I came from
  thats all.
  
  TWISI
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Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago
God just IS. God is Causal. Love and Joy. We go to God because we want to feel love and joy. We want to reconnect with what we already are... on a conscious level.
Yoga and meditation covers this.
Yoga = union with Spirit
Meditation = becoming conscious of ourselves as spirit and comprehending our individual spirit to be one with universal Spirit.
Eventually we will all go back home. There are many paths up the mountain to the top where Causal God resides. (Metaphorically speaking.)
It takes a lifetime to many lifetimes depending on the desire of body, mind, heart and spirit...
and devotion to REALITY/SPIRIT.
One must find a Guru.
Jesus is one. Krishna is another.
The spiritual path is an opportunity and a possibility.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yoga is just an action to HELP you to be more coexistent with your spiritual side. Meditation, too. It doesn't always work, not to say it never does though... It's what you realize and self-actualize that help you.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "When families abandon and shun their children because no amount of professional help, or interventions, or anything else is of any use so they send them on the streets. Is that still unconditional love ? I hardly think so…"
  No it is human frailty.
  However, if the child WILL not be helped what can his parents do?
  
  I believe they should help him and never give up on him. But if the child will not stay in his family's home or cooperate, tough love is the best. Love is not easy for parents in some situations. Human parents have their flaws. I never said parents are perfect. Mothers and the fathers love their children 100% but often loose their way in administering their love. Until perfected.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "if the child WILL not be helped what can his parents do?"
  You know what they can do?
  They can love him conditionally after accepting that there is nothing they can do and understand this is who he is. But hold on, hypothetically, is kicking him out an attempt to help him because they want to support him and help him realize the hard way or is it simply just giving up on him? It's hard to say. It's hard to speak about accepting when you're trying to help someone be a better person/realize their potential, because technically, you don't really accept them deep down.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, it is the discipline brought about by willingness and faith. I benefit from meditation every single time.
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Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years ago
...for you two.
Not for others who are more perceptive of reality which is not detected with man-made equipment. Here, you seem to be pushing your views.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Are you more perceptive of reality, or are you just relying on your imagination too much?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I can say with absolute certainty that I am perceiving reality. God is omnipresent.
  
  Furthermore, He assists me whenever I consciously ask for help… even when I don't consciously ask, but inwardly I am open to it.
  How is this help given?
  Sometimes by direct awareness, sometimes through books and passages in books I am led to. Ask any believer. They will tell you they have had similar experiences. They are believers for a reason.
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  Phil Perezposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  "Not for others who are more perceptive of reality which is not detected with man-made equipment."
  
  So I ask you, Kathryn, what's a book?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  one written by a self-realized master who knows a thing or two about reality! Who's name is Paramahansa Yogananda. I feel free to mention him because he can take you two on. All you have to do is contact SRF here in LA
  (Self Realization Fellowship.)
  But you won't.
  Thanks for the freedom of speech.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Sure. And each believer has a different story. And they all "know" So who's reality is right?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Those who love God and have faith in God. They are right. They perceive God and his love with their souls.
  Proof of God is our very own consciousness. Where did it come from?
  ...from His Consciousness.
  I am not preaching.
  Just telling you the absolute truth of the matter, whether you want to believe it or not.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  No, you're telling me what you believe. Not the "truth". Your beliefs are from perceiving reality, but filtered through your previous life experience and subconscious. Everyone perceives reality (which is objective).
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It's whatever you are open to. As Jesus would add... He who has ears to hear.... He did not say you had to have ears to hear.
  Let those of us, who have the ears to hear Jesus, listen to Jesus. Thats all I ask. Don't bombard US with YOUR doubt.
  if you ask for proof and then don't accept my proof, that doesn't seem fair.
  it is proof for me.
  who are you to discount anyone's proof?
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Don't bombard us with your "truth".
  
  Billions of people have a totally different truth than you. Who is correct?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Your own is correct. Knock on the door and it shall be opened.
  
  repeating
  if you ask for proof and then don't accept my proof, that doesn't seem fair.
  You MUST understand this fact: It IS proof for me.
  
  Who are you to discount anyone's own proof for themselves?
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Already been there.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  keep knocking with an open mind and heart.
  the responses are subtle.
  They will come.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It was anything but subtle for me. Once the door is open, there's no closing it.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  really?
  what did you experience that was not subtle?
  For instance LSD can open not so subtle doors. That is too much for the consciousness. One must go at an appropriate pace suitable for oneself.
  For instance, Kundalini Yoga must be practiced with a God-realized guru.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Actually I did practice kundalini yoga, and had a kundalini experience. It was terror and Euphoria. Very intense. I don't mess with meditation or yoga anymore.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  yikes. You need a guru. we all do. and eventually we will seek one, because we are destined to rejoin the ocean.\
  http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Oce … A013086F39
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I think there's a primal lifeforce that we all share. That could be the "ocean" you are talking about. I don't think we have separate souls. We're just a fraction of the lifeforce, having an experience of separateness. We all go back when we die.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Did you see the video?
  I love that song. I would like to make a video underwater with that sound track.
  featuring ME of course! HA HA HA… having a self is just so darn fun!
  http://www.bing.com/videos/search?q=Oce … A013086F39
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Have you tried pranayama? I am just curious since you know about kundalini yoga.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  well, Kriya yoga works with prana/breath. I am working up to Kriya yoga, but keep putting it off
  ...sigh.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not familiar with Kriya yoga, although I've heard of it. Do you experience kriyas? (When your body does automatic yoga positions and breathing).
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  no it is done with intention. I am not sure what you mean.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Kriyas are when you already know yoga positions without learning them. Like an instinct.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Another meaning of Kriya is an outward physical manifestation of awakened kundalini, such as a spontaneous body movement related to Kundalini energy flow.
  No.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not sure what you mean. The only breathing technique I know is pranayama, and all that does is concentrate your prana. (Not to say that isn't significant, though.)
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  To me: "most commonly refers to a "completed action", technique or practice within a yoga discipline meant to achieve a specific result." D
  ... the specific result is awakening Kundalini gradually through working with reversing the downward flow using the breath to bring it upward. But I have not been trained yet. So I am surmising. Maybe Jewles would know.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  What results are you trying to achieve?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  awaken the Kundalini flow. I am not there yet. I am just now seeing the possibilities of going within and stopping the mindless outward wandering. (as I continuously do in the forums thinking I can influence people in a positive direction. So ridiculous.)
  But thanks for enabling me, janesix. I think its fun sometimes when people interact. I think its amazing, really. I also like going on You Tube and seeing/hearing musicians, new and old.
  I think we will return to the real world eventually when the novelty of all this wears off.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  It was easy for me. But then again, I wasn't ready for it. I opened the flood gates, without knowing how to control it. Best to take it slowly,and know what you're doing.
  
  Why do you want to awaken your kundalini?
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  good question. I haven't wanted to until last night. I was reading that there really is a life beyond this one… beyond the breath… awake without having to sleep, without having to walk on solid land… I am suffering with all this gravity. I want to swim
  or fly...
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Be careful what you wish for.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  I just want to stop suffering.
  it is too solid here.
  Also I am at the point where I believe I am trusting in quick sand. I know it is not REALLY solid!
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Awakening your kundalini isn't going to help you stop suffering. I promise you that.
  
  Suffering is part of life. Part of life is about accepting that and learning to deal with it.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You will find bliss, but you will also find everything else.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Thanks for the warning. I have a guru. when I am truly determined. Love is important in all this. being utterly grounded in God's love.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  That probably helps.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Once you figure out how to completely clear your mind in meditation for a significant length of time, it should go rather swiftly after that I think.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  you focus on reality. Reality is clear.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You focus on nothing, or you won't get anywhere.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  no. this is why you got odd results. if one's mind is blank, one can open oneself up to those other forces which do exist in the astral pits.
  You have to find God. you really do. God is love.
  If you are not humble and do not bow to the Divine, you are asking for trouble.
  Fill your small self with the Big self.
  The self is vital.
  Keep in touch with the self/Self at all times.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  You have preconceived ideas, and that's what's preventing you from attaining what you want.
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  Kathryn L Hillposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  you are presuming as well. so, we could stop now. I'll go back to the bliss of You Tube.
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  janesixposted 8 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I had preconceived ideas before my kundalini experience.
  
  Now, I just have a lot of questions.
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