Wonderful article by Bill Moyes

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   Marisa Wrightposted 7 years ago

   This article expresses everything that the rest of the world is thinking:
   
   http://billmoyers.com/story/farewell-america/
   
   I especially like this quote:
   
   If there is a single sentence that characterizes the election, it is this: “He says the things I’m thinking.” That may be what is so terrifying. Who knew that so many tens of millions of white Americans were thinking unconscionable things about their fellow Americans? Who knew that tens of millions of white men felt so emasculated by women and challenged by minorities? Who knew that after years of seeming progress on race and gender, tens of millions of white Americans lived in seething resentment, waiting for a demagogue to arrive who would legitimize their worst selves and channel them into political power? Perhaps we had been living in a fool’s paradise. Now we aren’t.

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      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Wow. So the world turns a comment by one guy into tens of millions of people. You guys are just weird.

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         Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Can you explain that comment, I don't understand what you're saying.

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            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            From the article. You did read the article? One guy said "he says what I'm thinking" and you fearfully believe tens of millions think the same.
            
            I suppose we should believe all Australians think the dingo ate their baby?

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               Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Did you read the article or did you just skim it?
               He said that it's the single sentence that characterizes the election.  If you can't understand what that means, I'm not going to bother to explain it to you.

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                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I'm afraid it doesn't. To take one quote from one person and to then say Who knew that so many tens of millions of white Americans were thinking unconscionable things about their fellow Americans? is little more than finding what you want (no matter how thin the claim to it) to find as justification to fear them.  And to say it characterizes the election says more negative about a person who believes that than the Americans it is attempting to denigrate by holding a false belief.
                  
                  I find it humorous that it is within political correctness to lump white americans in with a negative statement or an action of one but if there is a hint that anyone says anything ill about even one individual within one subset of humanity which is not white and american (and, most times white american male) it is deemed a crime against humanity.
                  
                  I am finding myself so very, very disappointed in the left. I had more respect for them, until now. The left claims the right divided our nation. It looks to me as if the left has chosen to actively participate. I've never seen so much melodrama and grasping for reasons to hate until now.

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                     PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Sigh.... You apparently found all those negative statements by Trump acceptable enough that you were willing to vote him in as your leader, and millions of Americans did, too.

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      sallybeaposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      That really is an excellent article, beautifully written.  Thanks for sharing.

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      Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks for that, Marisa. I will read the article straight away!!!

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      rhamsonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      “He says the things I’m thinking.”
      
      This was the connection that the other side did not get. He spoke to those who have lost their jobs to the progressive push to globalization. He spoke to those who are overlooked for promotion because of the color of their skin. He spoke to those who feel left behind. What Hillary underestimated was how many feel these things and how she could not inspire enough to get out and vote. Not the whole country feels this way as Hillary won the popular vote. But it was just enough to reject the left and try something that seemed to speak to them since a very long time.

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         PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I agree he spoke to those who "feel" left behind. That doesn't mean they actually are left behind. I read somewhere that the average Trump voter is employed at a rate higher than the general populace and has an average annual income of $70,000.
         
         Anyway, the "feel" part supports what I've been saying. Trump masterfully appealed to the emotions of a certain a segment of our society. That is why they don't really care what he says or does. They "feel" he is on their side.

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            GA Andersonposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Like Bernie supporters felt?
            
            ... and I think that "left behind" feeling might have more than just monetary meaning to many folks.
            
            GA

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               PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, it is but if I point out what it is quite a few people here get butthurt. I lived in the rural Ozarks of Missouri and I think I have a pretty good handle on what some of them feel they lost, but if I express it in honest terms we will be off on another accusation-ridden back and forth. I'd like to be completely forthright, but I'm not in the mood to deal with the BS right now.
               
               Edited to add: I think the emotions young Bernie supporters felt were rooted in fear of their economic future. Young peope do have it pretty rough economically.. I really don't think thât's the same type of anger found in a certain large segment of Trump supporters

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      Don Wposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Well written, but I don't agree with that characterization. The attitudes and beliefs represented by Trump's win are not a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention to politics over the last 10 years. We all knew people held these views, but people either refused to believe it, or believed it but did nothing about it.
      
      I understand Gabler's sentiment, but if the feelings expressed in his article need to be translated into effective political action, otherwise it's pointless hand-wringing and navel-gazing. And waving protest signs, and smashing some things may make people feel better in the short-term, but it's not positive, constructive action. It's negative, destructive action that makes everyone feel worse in the long run.
      
      The measure of people's character isn't in how they manage victory, but how they manage loss. If people want to defend society from Trumpism through liberal values, they need to proliferate those values into every social institution.
      
      People need to get elected to city, county and state councils, committees and legislatures, so they can represent those values. They need to stop being mad and sad about the election, and start getting organized (Bernie Sanders should start a new party right now!)
      
      So I fully understand the feelings Gabler is expressing and the way many people with liberal values are feeling right now, but crying about the election can wait.
      
      There is work to be done.

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         jo millerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Protests have a valid place in a democracy.  They were very effective during the Civil Rights movement and our laws protect this right.  I do agree, however, they should be peaceful.  I also agree it is important to be active in the political process.  Almost 1/2 those eligible didn't vote in this election.

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            Don Wposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Protest marches absolutely do have a valid place in democracy, but their utility is limited.
            
            Protests were used as a tool during the civil rights movement out of necessity, but there is so much more that could be done with Facebook, Twitter, Youtube, Instagram, Snapchat and other social media. The ability to communicate with millions of people instantaneously, to raise funds electronically through crowd-sourcing etc. 
            
            But the technological developments that make it easier to organize is, as you say, no substitute for being active within the political process.
            
            When it comes down to it, being at that city or town hall meeting, getting on the county board of supervisors, going to the state's open meetings are among the most important things people can do. Ensuring liberal values are seeded through society via its social institutions, requires that people with liberal value are represented within those institutions however small or insignificant they may seem to be.

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      jo millerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Someone may have pointed this out, but this article is not by Bill Moyers.  It's by Neal Gabler but does appear on the Bill Moyers site.  I've known and respected Bill Moyers for years, but I'm not familiar with Neal Gabler.  He does present a frightening picture.  I've had those same fears myself, but I'm clinging to my faith in the American people.  Trump did not win the popular vote and the demographics are changing in this country.  There are many, many protests already, and I predict those will continue. 
      
      
      s

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      Glenis Rixposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with your sentiments, Marissa. It is becoming evident that Trump said a lot of things that people wanted to hear. He has revealed some of the worst aspects of human nature in a large proportion of the American electorate. Now he is back-tracking on some of his outrageous statements. Asked if he regretted some his remarks his response was 'No. I won'.
      
      Seems to me that now is a good time to consider the consequences of the hatred stirred up by the fanatical lunatic Hitler!

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         jo millerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I've been thinking about Nazi Germany all during this campaign.  All my life I've wondered how the German people could have let this happen in their country.  Now I'm beginning to understand.  I still think we have strong institutions, though, and I keep clinging to the fact that he did not win the popular vote.

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            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            Will the insults to those who didn't vote left every end?

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      ahorsebackposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      How delusional .   Isn't Moyers one of those who said , "I'm moving to Canada " if Trump wins .   , I hope that along with him goes  this mentality of safe space solutions to "not getting my pancakes the way I like them,"   Grow up people , nappy  time at kindergarten is over , it's time for big boy pants  .  You lost the election .    Wanting  to label your delusional impression of  a candidate by invoking child like responses to the US election process and outcome  is immature and  unlikely to affect change in anything .
      
      This Is How it Feels to Lose an Election !    Too bad your parents told you everyone gets the trophy  , guess what ? ..........  You don't all get one !    And now look at how Obama has treated his constituency "I'm considering a personal insult if you don't vote for Clinton " !     All of the childishness of the candidate -elect Trump is multiplied a hundred times by the absolute  childish mentality of those who would rather sit  at the foot of their cribs and wail at the world than  grow up .   
      
      Moyers is  only one of them .

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   PhoenixVposted 7 years ago

   Only liberals can commit violence, riot, commit arson etc etc then in a dissociative state worry that someone is gonna do something bad.

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   PrettyPantherposted 7 years ago

   Excellent article that explains why those of us who cannot abide Trump's hatefulness are so appalled and heartbroken that millions of Americans find it acceptable enough to vote him in as the leader of this great county.

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      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      I find it interesting that a woman with such a clear lack of ethics is considered to be more acceptable than a guy who has a habit of expressing himself poorly. Not to mention the things that were exposed that she has said from time to time about different groups.
      
      But, that isn't what any of this is all about, is it? And since it isn't it doesn't really matter what anyone says.  It's an easy thing to latch on to and shake like a rag doll. But, it will not accomplish what is hoped. The average American voter isn't that naive, or stupid.

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         PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         "habit of expressing himself poorly." Now, that's a classic minimization. One of the best I've ever heard.

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            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            We shall see. If you are right as to who is is we'll see a president impeached by universal vote from both House and Senate. With a cheer from a very large majority of Americans If I am right I do hope the left can be slightly more cordial and courteous about the upset.

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               PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               What do you mean by "right"? I'm unclear what that means in this context.

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                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  What do I mean about 'right'? What he will do as president.
                  
                  Anyway, I do want to say something in context of the article this thread was started about. The article is well written and I suppose, by the comments here, express what the left is feeling. This is very, very sad. It shows how far we have fallen as a nation. That, instead of attempting to understand why someone voted in the way they did we feel the need to find the worst possible explanation and tenaciously hold on to it; in order to make ourselves feel better about who we are; with a complete lack of regard for the truth.
                  
                  We have lost the ability to view our fellow citizens with anything other than contempt. I always thought the internet would bring us closer as humans because we were able to talk in greater depth, to people far removed by distance, position, or a superficial belief in a separation of ideology. But, that isn't the case, is it? We chose to use it to grow more distant. To shout our wants to the world, find ways to insult those who don't cheer our words. We don't listen to one another any more than we did when there was nothing but a land line and a hard copy newspaper to communicate.
                  
                  Until we stop attempting to find the worst we can find, until we stop imagining that this worst is representative of all who may disagree with us; we will never recover as a nation.
                  
                  Anyway, that's what I think. I hope I am done discussing this foolishness with all of you. The election is over. The republicans didn't simply win the White House. They control the House and the Senate. The largest majority of voting Americans identify as independents. These independents made this choice. If you choose to look upon them disparagingly (although I consider it to be counterproductive) it is your right. I do hope that, at some point, you will stop hating and find a way to attempt to understand what these felt important enough to vote the way they did. Without rancor and the need to create fault.
                  
                  We have a choice. We can work together to make this election a positive thing or we can work against each other. You along party lines, me simply attempting to find what is in the best interests of all Americans.

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                     PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     Very nice kumbaya speech. I agree with it. It's a speech inevitaby given by the "winner." Here's the thing. Our new president is not a kumbaya kind of guy. He's been exactly the opposite. And now the folks who voted for a presidential candidate who broke practically every barrier of civility are asking us to ignore all that nastiness and pretend we're all nice people.
                     
                     Kind of hard to swallow, don't ya think?

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                        Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Oh gosh. I think we are past the point of you being described as a nice person.
                        
                        Anyway, I hope you find a way to feel differently; as this loss settles in.

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                           PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           Yes, I know. I once again pointed out the facts of Trump's divisive campaign style, and your response is to call me not a nice person. At least you're changing your insults up a bit for variety.
                           
                           I notice you're not actually denying that he broke practically every barrier of civility. This kumbaya stuff has to work both ways.

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                              Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              If you say so dear.

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                                 PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 You're saying it only has to work one way? Kind of like when a batterer bruises his wife's ribs and says "let's forget that and work together for the sake of the kids." And she says "but what you just did is not acceptable" and he says "you are not a nice person if you don't want to work with me now"?
                                 
                                 Kind of like that?

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                                    Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    Whatever you say. There isn't really much use in attempting to discuss it. I trust your ability to think enough to have faith that you will, eventually, think about what I've said over the course of this election. If not, then there is still no use in continuing to attempt to discuss it.

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         Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         What is sad is that Donald Trump also has a clear lack of ethics, you only have to look at his business dealings (including the number of legal cases against him) to see that.  His supporters admit that, and their defence is that his dishonesty isn't as bad as Hilary's.
         
         We shall see.

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            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            We would have all loved to have seen an honest, decent human being with the will to be exposed to the mudslinging of American politics but we weren't presented with one by either party. Quite frankly, with the outright lies the internet offers which both sides and many foreigners latch on to with such tenacity, what decent person would choose to be slandered, maligned and otherwise accused?
            
            But, the choice was presented and we all had to swallow the bile and pick one. I'm afraid, considering the alternative, the lesser of two evils took office.
            
            I'll ask you this. If you had a spare room and wanted to rent it out and you had the choice between a foul mouth  and a person who is known to steal furniture and money and you had to pick one...what would your choice be?

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               Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               But the point is, Trump doesn't just have a foul mouth - why do you keep asserting that's his only problem?
               
               I think I'd rather have the thief than a man who is not only dishonest, but vindictive. If I did something to upset him - and that seems very easy to do - he would make my life a misery.   Trump reminds me strongly of a neighbour I once had.  He was similarly thin-skinned.   He didn't get permission from the condo committee to build an extension.  For over a year after the decision, we found locks superglued, dog poo posted through letterboxes, scratched cars, trees poisoned, etc.
               
               Compare this to the behaviour of Trump in my home town.  He's built a golf course there. The golf course is built and doing well, yet years later he is still persecuting a local farmer and an old lady who wouldn't sell their homes so he could have a bigger course.   He doesn't want the land now, but he can't let it go.
               
               If he takes that attitude in government we are all in real trouble.

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                  Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                  I agree. If he takes that attitude in government it would be a problem. However, giving someone the benefit of the doubt used to be an American virtue. I suppose we can all agree that has fallen to the wayside.

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                     Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                     You give someone the benefit of the doubt when he's an unknown quantity. For instance, if we had no evidence of dishonest, vindictive or sleazy behaviour in his past life, and there were only vague rumours, then we would give him the benefit of the doubt. 
                     
                     When you have ample evidence of past behaviour in a man of that age, you can be pretty sure his personality is not going to change just because he's got a new job.

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                        Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                        Honestly, though. Considering how far down into the gutter our politicians have sunk we have to use that as our measuring stick. And it really does take a skin as thick as an elephant's to survive the election process. Honest and decent people have had no reason to develop them.

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                           Marisa Wrightposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                           That is sad.

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                              Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                              It is quite sad. We are attempting to draw our lines in the sand to fix it. We'd appreciate it if the rest of the world could stop looking at superficial reasons to condemn it. Trust me, for all the hard edges and splinters of the beginning if we succeed trim will cover it.

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                                 PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                 Yes, we ended up with a difficult choice but it is wrong to characterize Marisa's concerns as superficial.

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                                    Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                    I disagree that her concerns aren't superficial. I'm curious. Did either of you bother to read the link I gave to the article by the Muslim woman as to why she voted Trump? Probably not. I will say that when you rush to demonize without stopping in even a courteous manner to attempt to understand why your assessment might be wrong you have made a superficial judgment.

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                                       PrettyPantherposted 7 years agoin reply to this

                                       Yes, I read it.

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   jo millerposted 7 years ago

   Who knew?  I did.  I live right smack in the middle of Trump country.  Right after the election of President Obama I began to see Confederate flags emerge.  Trump just emboldened these folks and the Confederate flags proliferated.  And most of these people are not economically deprived.  They're just longing for the days of white supremacy.  That's what they mean by 'make America great again'.

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      Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Jo, I suspected that was a good part of the Trump appeal. Thanks for your direct observation of what is happening on the ground, reinforcing what I thought was probably the case. Such is the power of what is nothing more than an illusion.
      
      That is really too bad.

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         jo millerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I don't think that was the only appeal Trump had.  For some it was just a longing for the 'good ole days'.  But the good ole days were discriminatory to blacks, women, LGBT.  I would like to see those who voted for Trump for other reasons to stand up to the blatant racism that is being evidenced.  I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen, though.

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            Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

            What I fail to understand is if these folks are not under any economic distress and resulting resentment based on your observations in the community where you live, it just seems that they don't want any progress for Minorities or women based on principle. That was why Boley, Oklahoma was decimated in a race riot in 1921, the whites simply resented the fact that the black community had any prosperity, period as in their minds they were not supposed to. That is pretty low in my opinion. I spoke on this topic in my hub "Message to and from Black America to White America", where recent events forced me to face that unpleasant conclusion.

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               jo millerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

               I've been trying to understand this all of my life.  And I'm really struggling to understand it now.  But I know that we're not all like that.  Most of the people I am close to share my sentiments.  And I know that those who don't are not all bad.  They are my neighbors, my friends, my family.  They did not create this system.  They were born into it.  And no one I've met believes himself to be a racist. 
               
               I am always heartened by Martin Luther King's quote “The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends towards justice.”   So keep the faith.

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      Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

      Confederate flags have been flying here hard for a while also. Oddly, about 1/4 of them here are flown by black men. I suppose that flag doesn't have the same connotations to everybody. I don't particularly like them but they must not necessarily be a sign of a hope for white supremacy.

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         jo millerposted 7 years agoin reply to this

         I've lived in the South all of my life.  Confederate flags didn't fly over homes in this land or over State houses until the Civil Rights bills began to be  passed (they lost the war, remember).  I've never seen a black person honor that flag or know a black person who doesn't see it as a racist symbol.  I see it as a racist symbol.  I think it is important to know it is seen as a racist symbol by many, many people in this country, and I can't imagine why anyone would want to fly it.

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            Live to Learnposted 7 years agoin reply to this

            I've always considered it an affront to the population for a state to fly it. And, I agree with you. I find it offensive.
            
            But we live in a free country. Last time I looked anyway. Now, I can certainly be confused if a person of color chooses to fly it but I think it is safe to assume they are not asking to be enslaved so there has to be a valid reason, in their mind, to fly it; other than the ones you and I see when it is displayed.

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               Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

               Yes, it is a free country and people can fly any banner they wish but those people are not immune to the conclusions drawn as to why they fly it.

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         Credence2posted 7 years agoin reply to this

         Well, there is somekind of weird aberration taking place when black men wave the Confederate banner. That is no more probable than Jews flying the Nazi banner. As a Black man, I say that, yes, that flag has represented racial resentment and abstinance from the concept of racial harmony. It has to be more than a coincidence that all racist white supremicist groups bind that that flag up with that of the Nazi symbol.

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   Live to Learnposted 7 years ago

   To any liberal interested in it here is an interesting article on why a minority chose Trump over Hillary.
   
   https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/i% … smsnnews11

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