Keystone Pipeline Spills 210,000 gallons of oil?

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   Credence2posted 6 years ago

   Keystone Pipeline spills 210000 gallons of oil?
   
   This one is a problem and why I am POed over this holiday season.
   
   Obama was wise to withhold support for the pipeline in recognition of just such an outcome.
   
   Where are the permanent good jobs that were to result from our participation in the project with the Canadians?
   
   The Sioux in North Dakota protested the introduction of this pipeline for good reason. Screwed again by the “Great White Father in Washington”?
   
   Rightwingers and Republicans always pass things like this as the cost of doing business, just so long as it does not occur in their backyards. Republicans would pee in their own Cheerios bowl if they could make a buck or two out of it.
   
   
   See NY Times article
   https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/16/us/k … akota.html
   
   This McIntosh lady, a environmental scientist with the North Dakota Department of the Environment and Natural Resources, referenced in the NY times article, says that we can dismiss the magnitude of the spill as it was in a rural area and the area is thinly populated enough so that no one would be affected. Sounds like pure Tramp (sp.), we dismiss areas because they are rural, what makes her believe that a spill of that magnitude can be contained in a specific area? From what I read, the aquifers of several states could well be affected. (Reuters Article)
   
   https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- … SKBN1DL2WQ
   
   Well, for the Right and GOP in general, I want you to dispense with the turkey bird and EAT CROW, as you deserve to.
   
   To all the rest, have a happy thanksgiving…….

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      PrettyPantherposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      Hope you have a Happy Thanksgiving, credence. 
      
      The oil spill is surprising.  Not.

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   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   Ask yourselves this .  How many train derailments spilling oil or train  fires ,have there been in America in say , the last forty years or so ?  Don't lose sight of the big picture and  you won't go blind staring at the oil spot .  No wonder  environmentalist's can't gain any credibility ;   It's always about screaming FIRE in a  public place.
   
   This spill amounts to less than ten tanker carloads , Enviro's , try to keep your panties from bunching up.

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      Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

      So what is the 'big picture'? I just see environmental degradation. As rightwingers, of course, that is of no concern for your crowd.
      -----
      "The last Keystone leak occurred in April of 2016, when the company reported a spill of 187 gallons. That number was later revised to 17,000 gallons and took two months to clean up."
      ----------
      A description or excerpt from the New Yorker explains the extent of an earlier spill and the relative time involved in cleaning up, yet you can so easily dismiss 210,000 gallons as the proverbial 'drop in the bucket'?

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         ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         For one , if you were as tuned into  environmental , jobsite safety issues as you were political correctness , you would know that in America  the industrial , energy ,manufacturing  and pipeline transportation industries have  never been cleaner .  Two,    that the pipeline transportation record is even better than the nations railroad and transport truck transportation safety records .
         
         And that's not right or left politics , that's just fact......but don't let facts keep a good environmentalist activist  from arguing  politics.  You will win the oil spill #  argument every time IF  trains and trucks and their terminals are allowed to be part of the equation !
         
         Get some facts not protest signs .
         
         Happy Turkey Day !

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            Credence2posted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Happy turkey day to you.
            
            Where do you get your minimizing statistics, from The Canadian firm responsible? How about documenting your sources outside of Fox News that minimize the effect of the spill?
            
            Although, I am not from Missouri, I need to have you show me.

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               ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               I wouldn't really trust a Canadian statistic ,  Look at released NTSB records , federal OSHA ,  trucking safety , Look at EPS standards for even coal  burning ,  And then look at the "roadmaps " for pipelines all across the US  ,   we have to believe something besides the agenda of your anti-environmentalist's .

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         Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I never understood why the R's thought this was such a great deal. It's dirty oil which needs to get from Canada to Mexico, so it has to pass through the U.S. We aren't going to use it (and shouldn't, we should be trying more alternative sources of energy). Plus this project will only provide jobs for a few weeks at most in little towns. R's are usually against jobs that are short like that because they attract day laborers. There was never a chance of good jobs coming out of this dumb idea, only more environmental disasters.

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            ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            Maybe it was your "day laborers " who caused the leak , better build that wall soon !
            Environmental Alarmist's like yourself have got to learn to look at the overall safety pictures of transporting energy resources in or around America.    Maybe another Exxon Valdez or Deep Horizon is what you need to to realize  that  there are other alternatives to wind towers on a calm day or solar farms in a long winter ?
            Alternative power ;
            What would you do shut down General Motors if the sun don't shine , close the Walmarts on a windless  afternoon ?   WE all have to look at the big picture without the rose colored sunglasses of Green Peace .

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               Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

               That didn't even make sense. Why are you blaming environmental disasters on me? Wind farms are located in windy areas. Day laborers work hard for less than minimum wage. My point was that this pipeline was touted as being a big jobs producer, when it would only provide jobs for several days in each area. Why don't you check more sources than Fox News before you say such things?
               
               Scientists (look it up, you apparently never heard of them) are finding new ways to store alternative energy and develop them. Companies which damage the land and water should be shut down, or at least be given dates by which they need to clean up their act. Oh wait, we had regulations like that until your beloved Trump reversed them. And Walmart only sells products made in China. What happened to Make America Great Again?
               
               Back in 1978, when I excitedly bought my first new car, the second day it wouldn't start. This led to a week of returning it to the dealer. Finally we found it was because of the defective Exxon gas in it, which was watered down gas which kept freezing in my gas tank. My husband was using gasohol in the 1970's, and although it didn't catch on for many reasons, we always tried to respect the environment. Even then cars got at least 40+ mpg on a tank of gas. Now people with one child think they need an SUV which hogs up the roads, parking lots and wastes energy.
               
               As usual, you want to take the world back 100 years rather than move forward to make progress, before there is no clean land left. Or any clean water. I don't have rose colored glasses, you allow yourself to be brainwashed by unintelligent people, who are selfish and don't care about each other or the future of this country. I hope you don't have children or grandchildren. I pity you.

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   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   Oh Jean , time to  absorb some facts ,  Look at the NTSB facts on transporting oil by train through the heart of cities near you ! That eighteen wheeler beside you and the grand kids on the highway ,   the pipelines safe ,   the exhaust coming from 18 wheeler trucks and diesel trains - is effecting your brain.     I know one thing - you had no vehicle back then that got 40 MPG except your Vespa , maybe .
   
   You blame all this on Trump and he's been in office for what 10 months ?  I think you not only need a new fact book but that you better throw away those old farmers almanacs .'"Taking the world back 100" years is your job ,   keep those  diesels running on retread tires , smoking down the highway ,   going into rivers when they sideswipe each other,
   
   Look up that  oil train wreck in Quebec  a few years ago and ask the people who lost an entire town how they feel about oil trains ,   they may not think trains are that efficient .   Jobs  : one man in an eighteen wheeler , two or three on a train isn't a very good jobs program !

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      Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      You are totally getting off topic. I blame Trump for loosening regulations on the biggest polluters.

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         Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         I have never driven a Vespa. Again, I don't drive a smoking diesel truck either, and in NJ drivers who do are pulled aside and ticketed. Why is this my fault?
         
         I had a Nissan Sentra (then called Datsun in 1978) that got MORE than 40 mpg back then, but it matters that I did mostly highway driving at the time. Driving where you do a lot of local errands uses more gas, as you have to start and stop the car often. My husband's (then BF) Toyota Landcruiser (different than the bigger ones now, it was smaller and a jeep) also got about the same. That was the reality of driving during the oil embargo of the late 1970's, when we could only gas up every other day. But nobody was stupid enough to buy gas guzzling vehicles for many years after that. I seem to be older than you and lived through this, that's why many people in my age group buy Nissans, Toyotas, and Subarus. You get more gas mileage, good for your budget, and contribute to less dependency of foreign oil.
         
         If Americans made vehicles up to the standards of the ones in the 1970's, we would need less gas from other countries. Unfortunately, people who care about the environment, dependency on terrorist countries, and live on a sensible budget,have to buy foreign cars to get those things from a vehicle.. Don't tell me what I remember from my own life experience.
         
         But people that are younger don't know cars were made that didn't pollute so much and really used a lot less gas. Sadly, people from then forgot, or younger ones are impressed by hearing they can get 23 mpg on a ridiculously large SUV that uses more oil and continues our dependency on foreign oil.
         
         We could be focused on better trains besides Amtrack if there was some kind of infrastructure bill. I think that's something we could all get together on.

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   ahorsebackposted 6 years ago

   If you want to talk efficiency in  MPG's ,  then lets post the national speed limit again to 55 MPH   instead of today's  85 that everyone does .  THAT is why you got anywhere near 40 mpg's ,  the forty mpg today would get  60 MPG , if and only  if people slowed down again , I blame that on younger ,less caring , generations. Cars in the sixties and seventies polluted way more than today , did you mention that ? No. Don't tell me people today are more  energy conscious , thats a lie - They may know more but contribute less envirenmentaly .
   
   Don't forget , I was there too in the seventies .Remember $3 .00 limits on purchases of gas on odd days according to number plates ?
   Waste is the biggest part of today's blatant  energy sucking lifestyles . Look at the waste in restaurants, schools , college's , appt. buildings. 
   
   Want to be a tree hugger today ? At least  look at the numbers in some sense of reality !
   
   AS a side not ;      NO ONE IS FREE OF POLLUTING GUILT
   
   One , Dartmouth College , one of the  now  premiere liberal Ivy League Colleges in the USA , is right now realizing that they will spend $27 Million dollars to clean up their medical , science waste dumping site  that is polluting TODAY'S drinking water supplies .   AND I'll bet that that becomes a federal Superfund Sight  that you and I pay for in taxes .
   
   Two , Across the river in Vermont a once bustling battery mfg and storage sight is
   being sued  state and federally for drinking water pollution for contamination's to drinking water  to several towns ,  My point , No one , not even the precious  battery companies for solar batteries  is free of pollution . 
   
   It's nice  to worry and fuss over oil spills on the ground that you can actually see and photo ,  But , what lies beneath this superficial attitude of so called environmentalist's , we need to open our eye's to the realities and the best solutions to all pollution  ,including how best to transport our oil .

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      Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

      I'm a careful driver, and do recall when the speed limits were lowered, it was a good idea, especially in an overpopulated state like mine. I was talking about the oil embargo of 1979, and about how we could only gas up our cars every other day, according to the even/odd system of license plates. If you worked far from home, I did, an hour, and had a social life, it was hard. It did make roads safer though. I don't like driving as much as I used to, as everyone is going 85 and more and it's so dangerous.
      
      I didn't know your age, so it must be similar to mine if you recall this. My car did not pollute, smaller, fuel efficient cars are not the ones driving down the highway spewing black smoke. I want to blame the younger generation, but everyone since Aristotle has done that.
      
      I never said today people are more energy conscious, especially the ones driving the large gas gusslers.
      
      I don't disagree with anything you say here. And I admit to being a treehugger. But I live the lifestyle. I reuse the same supermarket bags and have for the last 15 years. I get involved in my local gov't. when my town is getting overdeveloped, it causes flooding and is usually poorly planned. The waste drives me crazy too. I mulch my property and don't use chemicals on my garden.
      
      Nobody is free of guilt here. But large companies are being given a free pass to pollute, especially when Trump rolled back environmental regulations on the biggest polluting ones. I still also believe we can get together and solve some of these issues. It shouldn't be that difficult.

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         ahorsebackposted 6 years agoin reply to this

         You are right Jean , we have to  ALL  focus on the future .    I know you are a responsible  user of our resources , I'm 63  and have been recycling since 1985 or so , I ask anyone under  fifty , how long before they  have that record?      We live in a fast world Jean and it needs to slow down ,    one of the worst wasters of natural resources   I  am led to understand , is cell phones . the kinds of minerals going into them is scary , African  open pit , slave labor mineral mining . Now , what's with that ?
         
         Polluters today aren't as bad  in general , there are just more of them [us ],  My understanding  anyway.  But I have read where these newer pipelines are not only safer but more efficient ,  let's check that out ?    It does non of us any good to listen to Hollywood on pollution however ,  with their Lear -jets flying around  promoting a cleaner world and making movies with pyrotecnics  , high tech Cadillac  Escalades  and twenty million dollar , eight thousand square foot , foot-prints of  homes mean nothing at all in promoting  conservation .
         
         We all must think globally and act locally , I can't wait until everyone gets that . Most of us , I fear , do not !

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            Jean Bakulaposted 6 years agoin reply to this

            We have to preach it until people listen. Unfortunately, people don't put a lot of thought into what or why they use the products they buy, or foods they eat. They don't research anything, nobody reads anymore. I also would be happy if life would slow down. Remember when you got a phone call, and nobody got offended if you didn't answer for a day or two? I can't stand seeing everyone out for dinner together and all of them are looking at their cell phone instead of talking and enjoying each other. I'm 62, maybe I'm getting crabby? Nice chat. Take care.

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