Learning as I go - and flagged for overly promotional.

1. 0

   TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago

   K, so I need some feedback to learn the ropes.
   
   I created a cell phone Hub with all text and Amazon capsules.
   No links in any of the text.
   
   Then at the very bottom, I added an rss feed to the Amazon
   cell phone page.
   
   Which part is "overly promotional" - is it the amazon capsules on each text capsule
   OR, was it the rss feed of Amazon items? (which were the only outside links I had).
   
   Thanks!

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2. 72

   relacheposted 16 years ago

   From A Moderator’s Mouth: Overly Promotional Hubs

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   1. 71

      Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I knew that hub would come in handy.  Just in time!
      
      Tiffany, I hope you'll review the common problems I've laid out in that hub anyway, for information's sake, but in this case, it's the affiliate RSS feed.  Replace it with some Amazon capsules, and you'll be fine.

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3. 0

   TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago

   Thanks so much Maddie!
   
   I figured as much, so I deleted it.
   
   I wish I could borrow your brain temporarily so I could amass this vast insight and then give it back. LOL
   Tiff

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   1. 71

      Maddie Ruudposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Would that mean I get a share of the royalties on your next ebook?
      
      I kid, I kid.  I'll be writing more of those "Moderator's Mouth" hubs, since they seem to be useful to the community.

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4. 72

   Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

   Tiff,
   
   Sometimes you can anticipate these things, if you apply logic.
   
   HubPages makes its money by sharing revenue with you.
   
   This sharing is based on allocating a percentage of page impressions to your affiliate/Adsense codes, and a percentage of page impressions to HubPages' affiliate/Adsense codes. And if you were referred in by another Hubber, that other Hubber will get a percentage of impressions, too.
   
   The mechanism HubPages uses to divide the impressions is built into the code in the revenue capsules.
   
   If you do ANYTHING to make revenue from a page outside the revenue capsules, which are clearly marked AS the revenue capsules, you are cheating HubPages of its percentage of the revenue you make  - and yet, you are making that money using resources that HubPages is paying for.
   
   That's hardly fair, is it?
   
   But it's reasonably easy to work out whether you are doing it, too. Revenue comes from revenue capsules, period.
   
   Outbound links to other sites where you can make revenue are banned, for the same reason, UNLESS you give HubPages something valuable (original and exclusive content) in exchange for links from HubPages to your money sites. And the rate of exchange is one (1) Hub of unique and exclusive content for each two (2) commercial links.
   
   Finally, of course, there is writing style. You may not put a live link to your money site, but if you rave about how wonderful it is and then include "mysite (dot) com" in the text ... well, really, that is fairly obviously promotional, too. Rabid sales letters tend to be quickly flagged and removed.
   
   So here's the "overly promotional" checklist:
   
   1. Am I making revenue only through revenue capsules?
   2. Am I providing original and exclusive content in exchange for not more than two commercial links?
   3. Am I writing good quality, useful, magazine-style content?
   
   Check all three and you will never have a problem with being overly promotional.
   
   Jenny

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      embitcaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Just to add to Jenny's great post, when it comes to outside links, patterns across hubs are looked at as well as what is in each individual hub. So you can also transgress the rules by linking to the same commercial sites over and over again.
      
      I'm not sure what percentage of a Hubber's hubs would trigger a penalty, but let's assume that if you have 100 hubs and all of those hubs share links to the same two commercial domains, there will probably be a penalty applied.  I'm sure Maddie can come in and confirm, but I believe that's how it works.

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5. 0

   TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago

   Thanks, Jenny!
   
   Well it's such a hard thing to get used to coming from Squidoo, where marketing all over is allowed. Just have to retrain my brain for Hub Pages.
   
   I guess I wish there was something that said, "oops! You can't do that!" when I did something wrong. lol. I figured since I did a whole Hub of text with no links, that one rss feed to some money links would be allowed. But now I know so I don't have to make the same mistake again!
   
   That's what it's all about! Learning as I go........
   tiff

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6. 72

   Inspirepubposted 16 years ago

   You can see why all Hubber shudder in collective horror at the idea of someone writing a book to attract marketers to HubPages, can't you?
   
   We're all busy enough flagging spammers as it is ...
   
   Jenny

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7. 57

   Jeff Cposted 16 years ago

   Jenny,
   
   I just wanted to thank you for clarifying HubPages anti-marketing stance. I knew there was a reason I had put off trying to learn HubPages guess I now know why. So all of you shuddering Hubbers now have one less marketer to be concerned with.
   
   Seems strange to me though that a site that is so anti-marketing and anti-money making promotes itself as a way to earn extra money in order to attract new members.
   
   ~Jeff C.

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      embitcaposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Jeff,
      
      Hubpages isn't anti-marketing so much as it is anti selfish marketing. Hubpages provides a way for people to earn extra money with three different affiliate programs -- Adsense, Ebay and Amazon. They provide hosting and tools in exchange for a share of pageviews and the opportunity to share in the revenue.
      
      It is a mutually beneficial arrangement with substantial benefit to the Hubber. I believe we get 60% of pageviews if I remember correctly and Hubpages gets 40% -- this is far superior to Squidoo's 50/50 commission share after expenses. But cutting Hubpages out of the opportunity to share in pageviews/revenue for Ebay and Amazon is selfish. Plain and simple.
      
      As far as for other types of marketing, you are welcome to participate in that if you want to -- with two commercial links in a hub --  as long as you also provide something of value to Hubpages -- original and useful content.  I have several hubs that promote outside vendors that are not part of Hubpages revenue sharing arrangement, but for each of those hubs I have content that can only be found on Hubpages and I also have revenue sharing capsules so there are opportunities for Hubpages to earn there as well. It's really not that difficult to avoid being a leech who doesn't share and I think the advantages are obvious. Tiffany mentioned them in her e-book preview.

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      1. STAFF

         pauldeedsposted 16 years agoin reply to this

         This is a spot on.  Maddie covered the things that she looks for when moderating very well in her hub.
         
         However, if you prefer a more philosophical approach, think about it like this.  HubPages is collective.  We don't like it when people try and take out significantly more than they contribute.  There are lots of ways you can take, for instance:
         
         1) linking out excessively or to sites of dubious value, especially if you aren't contributing any links in
         2) creating unoriginal content
         3) monetizing your content primarily outside of the HubPages ecosystem
         4) damaging HubPages reputation by exploiting other sites,for instance through excessive social bookmarking or content theft
         5) creating a lot extra work for our already overworked staff, usually by violating our rules in some way.
         
         Conversely there are lots of ways to contribute:
         
         1) creating original high quality hubs
         2) participating in the community through requests, commenting, and the forums
         3) helping to promote other Hubber's high quality content in appropriate ways
         4) helping us police detrimental activity though thumbing, flagging, etc.
         5) bringing good new members into the community.
         
         Our rules are intended to reward positive contributions and punish negative contributions.  The rules are what guide our actions, but ultimately we are going to do whatever we have to do to protect the community.  To that end, simply following the letter of our laws will not guarantee your good standing, if at the same time you grossly violate the spirit behind them.

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            TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

            Thanks, Paul! I agree with the spirit of the community, putting in as much (if not more) than you take out, etc. I promote this with Squidoo, too. I teach people to write quality content, participate in SquidU, visit other people's lenses, and add some modules like Amazon for instance, that help Squidoo make money.
            
            I do not disagree with ANYthing Hub Pages has listed on that contribution list. The problem here arises in that people assume I'm not because I'm writing an eBook about it. I know that 99% of eBooks are ...um, spammy/scammy? Mine are not. Seth even blogged about my success on Squidoo on one of his lenses. I hope to bring in lots of quality Hubbers (or whatever you call them) and take Hubbers who are currently floundering, violating TOS, and creating more work for Maddie, etc., and turn them around to learn what makes a quality Hub account.
            
            I can only do this through learning, and the faq page isn't enough and visiting all the countless hub explanation pages isn't what these people are willing to do.  What they ARE willing to do is pay for someone else to compile (and I don't mean plagiarize) all of the tips, rules, and insight into one place - an eBook.
            
            I was wishing someone could seriousl explain the difference in why that Hub isn't considered overly promotional, though. Based on that tos sentence, it seems to be - so it's not only me who's confused, but a whole host of individuals.

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   2. 0

      TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Jeff!
      
      I understand your feelings, but I implore you to stay and go with it. I am marketing about this site, but even I understand why they shudder. It's not because of what you or I do with it - it's what the spammers do.
      
      Kind of similar to how spammers ruined Squidoo with redirects using the iframe, so now none of us can use an opt in form or audio on our lenses. That sucked! But...it's natural for them to see the wave of marketers and worry.
      
      I swear I'm on a mission to change the face of marketing. It's like having the plague or something - no one wants to stand next to you.
      tiff

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8. 0

   TiffanyDowposted 16 years ago

   Now see, I would have thought this Hub http://hubpages.com/hub/money-in-the-ba … ney-online was in the camp of being “overly promotional” because it appears to do what it says you can’t do in the FAQ:
   
   “Purely promotional offers and Hubs designed only to promote other sites or businesses are not allowed.”
   
   This is just a Hub for one thing – his affiliate link to another site or business.
   
   This is the stuff we’re all confused about.

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9. 84

   gamergirlposted 16 years ago

   Ohh, do me next, Tiffany!  Pick apart my hubs because I don't agree with your tactics or purpose here on Hubpages.
   
   Sheesh.. and I thought I had issues.

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   1. 0

      TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

      I think you might Have issues, that is.
      
      I dind't flag the poor guy, just trying to learn, that's all
      
      This thread is about things being overly promotional, so I wanted to know why
      this particular Hub is considered ok. It's a learning process
      
      But by the way, love how you admire Mark for flagging my cholesterol Hub on me
      but  it's not okay that I ask (without flagging) about this Hub. I know, I know...it's because
      I'm an eeeevvvviiiillllllll marketer. Patooey!
      
      Want me to hop up on the stake all you have to do is light the match?
      tiff

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10. 63

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    You can flag it, you have my permission
    
    And if you don't understand why community here did not consider it overly promotional, you have no business teaching other people WEB2.0 stuff. Blind leading blinds - for money

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    1. 0

       TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       I don't want to flag it. I'm here to learn. But thanks for your permission!
       
       I don't have any business teahcing other people this stuff until I know, which is why I ask.
       Right now, I'm partially blind. By the time I feel confident releasing the eBook, I won't be. But you don't like that - you'd prefer I do what other marketers do and just slap a "make money on hub pages" guide together without learning.
       
       I could do that! Just not my style

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11. 84

    gamergirlposted 16 years ago

    If you weren't trying to make money off of things that aren't yours to make money from.. your attitude would make me laugh.  But, since you're trying to mooch off of the success and community spirit of this site, I don't find your quips funny at all.
    
    You and your parrots can go home now, Tiff.

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12. 68

    Stacie Naczelnikposted 16 years ago

    The nice thing about flagging is that you can do it without anyone's permission.  And, nobody has to know that something was flagged, except the people at HP. 
    
    Flagging a hub doesn't not automatically make the hub in question a problem.  All it does is move it up in line to be checked (it was already in line to be checked because all hubs are).
    
    Tiffany, it is good that you are here trying to learn.  Do you have specific questions about the hub you mentioned?  If you could apply the "rules" to this hub with your questions, it would be easier to find answers.

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    1. 0

       TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Hi Stacie!
       
       Thanks that you understand I'm here trying to learn.
       
       I thought I did list why, so let me try again:
       
       The hub in question is just promoting a single business using his affiliate link to the site. So I read in the FAQ, where it says, "Purely promotional offers and Hubs designed only to promote other sites or businesses are not allowed.”
       
       This seems to me like it IS a purely promotional offer designed to promote another site. He has no ebay or amazon capsules in there, so ther'es no revenue sharing other than the adsense.
       
       So it's okay to write a product review only with an affiliate link and no other revenue capsules?
       Please help me understand, because I'm seriously confused about it. lol

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13. 63

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Tiff, I told you in another thread why exactly I have a problem with what you are doing. If you didn't get it - you didn't get it. You will get it later, after you run into this same problem in a number of other sites

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    1. 0

       TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Oh I get it - just don't agree with you.

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14. 63

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Oh, that's exactly what I meant I had no doubt you read it and understood what I was saying

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       TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       OMG! We agree on something.

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15. 63

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Tiff, it does not brake any rule. It was written to share with friends, not to promote to prospective customers.
    
    If you don't feel the difference - nobody can help you...

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    1. 0

       TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       No, I don't, but I like that you're mentoring me
       
       You say it's to share with friends, but not to promote to prospective customers, but then
       why the affiliate link? I'm not being a nag here, just seriously wondering so I know what breaks tos and what doesn't.
       
       So for instance - let's say I believe in a product called "Social Networking on Squidoo" (okay it's mine) - Can I create a whole Hub about how great this product is and then at the end include a link to my eBook?
       
       Or, could I do the same for someone else's product, such as Wealthy Affiliate University?  I would think that would be shunned big time, right?
       
       If you were just sharing with friends, you wouldn't have had an affiliate link hoping to profit from it, is my point...so this is ok, or no? I'm hoping yes!

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16. 57

    Mark Knowlesposted 16 years ago

    Misha - she's not going to get it. She has already ignored the comment Paul just made and didn't get that either.
    
    I offered to teach her for $1,000 - perhaps you could do it for $999.99 ?

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       TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       Oh, a discount! Now you're talking!

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          Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

          LOL
          
          At least you have a sense of humor.
          
          That's worth a lot. You are missing a key point though. All right $999.97 - no lower!

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             TiffanyDowposted 16 years agoin reply to this

             Hey I have to. $997.97. Gosh I only have $997.96.

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                Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

                Done. As soon as I get the money, I will fill you in.
                
                I am outta here too.
                
                Ciao.

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17. 63

    Mishaposted 16 years ago

    Mark,
    
    I wouldn't even get into this - and I didn't until I saw Jenny's comment. Obviously Jenny was sure something could be done here - so I chimed in, too... Looks like Jenny was mistaken, though...
    
    Tiff,
    
    If you don't understand the difference between friends and prospects, you probably have more serious issues than just not getting web2 stuff. And I can sell my information myself, I don't need a middle-woman, so that's about it for mentoring...
    
    Good luck, I'm outta here...

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18. 57

    Jeff Cposted 16 years ago

    Hey Tiff,
    
    At the risk of getting shunned (Though it probably won't be as bad as you are seeing I am not writing an ebook lol) I have to agree with you. I guess I just don't get it either
    
    I have now read that hub 4 times and just don't see how it is not a promotional peace. In fact it looks very close to an e-mail I sent to my list promoting Pay-Per-Play back when they debuted. All I can think of is that the reason this is considered "written to share with friends" and not a promotional article is because Misha has 357 fans to share it with and we don't.
    
    I still would like it if someone would answer the question about writing a review. If I write a review for a product and then put my affiliate link (as long as I let the readers know it is an affiliate link) is this allowed or is it overly promotional?
    
    ~Jeff C.
    
    P.S. Tiff I can't wait to read your HubPages ebook

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       Mark Knowlesposted 16 years agoin reply to this

       And you said you didn't get it.

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