Fourth Way

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coyjayposted 14 years ago
Is anyone on this forum interested in the Fourth Way? I have been a student of this system for over thirty years. All of my knowledge of the system comes from reading its authors. I have never attended a Fourth Way school. However, I have put to practice the teachings.

What I'd like to do is present my interpretation of the Fourth Way and discuss it with readers of this forum to clarify my thinking on the system.

This system holds that man is a psychological animal as much a physical one. In order to understand ourselves, we must understand our psychology, or how our machine works.

Man has many misconceptions about himself. First of all, he thinks that he has one unchanging "I." In reality he has not one, but hundreds of different "I"s. He generally thinks that he has one brain, the thinking center, when in reality he has three brains or centers that control his behavior, the thinking center, the emotional center, and the moving-instinctive center. He thinks that he is awake, fully aware of himself. But, really he exists at the second level of consciousness, waking sleep. He thinks that he can do but, because of his lack of awareness, he can only react to external stimuli.

Most important, we do not Remember Ourselves. To Remember Yourself, you must be aware of yourself here and now. When we think about it, we are aware of ourselves for a moment or two, but then we become identified and lose the here and now.

The system shows that man has tremendous unknown powers, and because they are unknown, we function at a fraction of our true potential.

What do you think?

When I stop to think about it, the most important part of the system, to me, is the emphasis on the Miraculous. To get into the Unknown, you have to go beyond the limitations of time-space into the invisible world of the cosmos.

Krishnamurti teaches that our lives are governed by thought, and that thought can never discover the unknown. All thought is based on the senses and memory. And you can never find the unknown in the past. The Unknown exists in the invisible world that gives birth to the visible; the Unknown always was and always is. You can only enter it when you stop all the chatter.

Because the Otherness is beyond time-thought-space, no one else can tell you how to find it. You have to discover for your self, and the way that you do this is to begin checking out your machine in light of what the work teaches.

How does your machine work? Are you so identified with your imaginary picture of your self that you dare not observe your every day actions in relationship to the world you live in, keeping the Work in mind?

Maurice Nicoll, one of the teachers in the Work calls the Fourth Way Esoteric Christianity.

Hide
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Out thinking cells are not only located in the brain but also in the spinal cord.
  Man is known to be in a dream like or sleep like state and enlightenment wakes him up to the reality of god or his real self.
  
  Yes all thoughts all desires must stop in order to know the unknown and one needs to meditate and find it for himself.
  There are two famous Krishnamurti's U.G.Krishnamurti and J.Krishnamurti, can you please let us know who you are talking about.
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok thanks both are known as great masters in India.
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Anti-Valentineposted 14 years ago
This could have been a hub, surely. It's quite long.
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Can I leave it on the forum, and still use it as a hub?
  
  Thanks,
  Coyjay
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course you can !! But make it a hub. More people could read it then
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I will make it a hub.
  
  Thank you,
  
  Coyjay
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Paragliderposted 14 years ago
Lots of interesting ideas. I certainly agree that we function at far less than our potential. We are, if you like, lazy when not uncomfortable. I'm not fully convinced, though, that the mind has any power beyond thought and feeling. If we disallow physical movement of the body (including the tongue and eyes) can the mind achieve anything external? Anything that can be observed to have occurred by a third party? I'd like to be convinced.

I do not for one minute deny that by stilling the thoughts, by meditating, we can arrive at a different state of consciousness. But how can we know that this is not simply another feeling, another product of the brain? How can we know that we have 'really' contacted something external (unknowable)? Maybe we have simply allowed a few dormant neurons to waken up.

It's also worth mentioning that your Fourth Way has been brought to us by thought, action, and a great deal of hard science and technology.

But as I began - yours was a most interesting post. Thanks
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Sorry I haven't replied sooner, but I am new to Hubpages. O.K. let's look at the emotional center. Thought are influenced by emotions but they are not the same as emotions. If you observe yourself, you will find that your emotions come from a different place from your thoughts and can stop thoughts. Emotions are of course different from movement. The emotional center often disrupt movement as when you are driving to the basket and are afraid that you will miss your shot.
  
  At any rate, thanks for your comments.
  
  Coyjay
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phonereversetraceposted 14 years ago
I enjoyed your post and like your explanation of the Fourth Way (of which I had never heard before).

However, I think it's important to acknowledge the contradiction in this approach to self realization. The Fourth Way "path" recognizes that truth is beyond thought, time and space. Thus to experience truth one must stop trying to categorize and conceptualize and THINK one's way there!

The only way forward is truly to stop thinking. Silence the mind and release all attachments and desires. Surrender, and go within.
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, Silence plays an important role in Fourth Way teaching. One practice of the Fourth Way is Self Remembering which is emptying one's self of One's Self. Krisnamurti says that one can only get in touch with the Otherness through Silence.
  
  Coyjay
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I believe that social and economic ideologies and religion ignore the bio-chemical roots of our illness mental and physical.

It is the self replicating DNA, dirty and selfish genes that have no interest in our well being that cause our malaise.

Until we rewrite the vertebrate genome and genetically reprogram, we will always suffer the same human condition that wreaks havoc in our bodies and minds, the consequences of which are our world as it is today.
It could take 10 years or more to complete, but unfortunately for us, we would rather destroy each other before then.
The problem will be, that it may take mankind another 150 years to get past religiosity and other beliefs which are currently set in concrete by fear of death to move aside to allow this to take place.
And I do realize my belief will make me about as popular as doggy doo, but someone needs to make a move! We use near nothing of our minds now, and I see little else that can change that. Operating out of the "lizard brain" response though fight or flight is not a very sophisticated way to run a planet!
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Any replies? I may have to find a more suitable forum like science I guess.
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  phonereversetraceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It doesn't matter. Life will go on no matter what people try to do.
  
  No need to worry, or struggle against, it or try to improve it. It is going to go where it is going no matter how hard you try to change it.
  
  Better to bring your mind to stillness and relax into the flow.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I have been "relaxed into the flow" for more years than you have lived young man! The desire to share information is not an addiction, take it easy!
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but even as we are we can through super effort make our selves more conscious of our selves and our world. I have been practicing Fourth Way concepts for over twenty years now, and I still function far below the level of man awake. But, at least I recognize my sleep now.
  
  Coyjay
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
The mind of Messiah is the ONLY mind that can deliver you from evil.

To have ones mind transformed to think as he did and do as he did is the path to righteous.

I am NOT talking about being like half of the people who say they know him either.

Just read what he taught and do it, simple.

Find one fault with what he taught and present it right here and I do NOT mean your paraphrase of it either. Quote it and cite it and then tell me what you find fault with it about.
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And, where will we read what He taught?
  
  Coyjay
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
Messiah was NOT and is NOT subject to a single physical law.

He commanded the waves, walked on the water and raised the dead.

Even raised Himself for that matter because death holds no power over one like THE SON OF MAN.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
OK now seriously. Any real thoughts?
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
Doing miracles was NOTHING for Messiah, it was normal, he was not subject to fear and doubt. He had dominion over all things in this realm. He did more miracles than any other to have set foot on the planet.

THIS WAS NOT as you say "the emphasis" for him.

Miracles can be done by liars, big deal !!!

His emphasis was on THE TRUTH of what he taught.

Understanding of all the time, space, motion and physical laws was elementary to him.

People are the ones "amazed" with this stuff and they want to know how to do it WITHOUT knowing Messiah.

Like I said....Liars can do these things....they are called lying signs and wonders.
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, but can you go beyond time-space and actually witness the Miraculous yourself?
  
  Coyjay
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  My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My friend says:
  Love can do anything as it is not bound by anything in this realm or any other realm.
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  coyjayposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said we must love our enemies. As we are, we cannot even love our friends.
  
  Coyjay
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  Sybil Marieposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said "love your neighbor as yourself" The problem may be that so many of us do not love ourselves, that is to say we do not accept ourselves as we are at this moment, in this time, shortcomings and all. When we begin to move into acceptance of ourselves, we begin to love others as well,if that makes sense.
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  My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My friend says:
  Did you understand the answer?
  
  Love says to your reply:
  If one cannot love ones friends or enemies, why then talk about a 4th way.
  Without love, all is idle and in vain and profits you nothing.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
YeH Yeh! all who do not follow your particular sky fairy are all moronic! Sick of hearing it.So your still sticking to the story that your god made the whole thing happen? Good for you!
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Funny you say that...you keep reading it.
  
  If you are sick and you ralph....do you put it back in your mouth?
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What a stupid childish comment.
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earnestshubposted 14 years ago
I believe that social and economic ideologies and religion ignore the bio-chemical roots of our illness mental and physical.
Any thoughts?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I believe in blaming it all on biochemistry and genetics, you ignore the amazing power of human free will. No matter how genetically "perfect" we may engineer our species into becoming, there will still be evil simply because that's what some people choose.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How does a creature that is defined like this.....
  
  "biochemical roots of our illness mental and physical."
  
  "Attempt" to change mankind by.....
  
  "rewrite(ing) the vertebrate genome and genetically reprogram, we will always suffer the same human condition that wreaks havoc in our bodies and minds, the consequences of which are our world as it is today."
  
  If mankind is as you say he is, then tries to do what you say, it is the same as retard working on another retard to make him a genius.
  
  Can the government fix the politicians or vice versa?
  Can something genetically IMPERFECT engineer a PERFECT man?
  Try to get even Paraglider to buy that one and he will tell you he'd rather believe in God because that would be easier to do
  
  The problem dear Earnest is in the BLOOD of mankind and it CANNOT be fixed By mankind, his problem is in his blood where his life is located.
  
  The solution is NOT man!
  The best scientists in the world CANNOT concoct a potion to fix himself or you.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I do not agree, I believe all humans to be evil and good, as we all are a part of humanity.I think the human condition is self evident.
  I don't see a choice in evil, the way our primitive brain works, the only choices we have are circumstantial. I would not like to be a child in many parts of the world right now, and as a parent of such a child my choices could be very limited in protecting my family. If starving I would feed my children by stealing if must be. I am as bad as the worst, as good as the best and the more I become conscious of what I am the more empathetic I can become.
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
"your particular sky fairy are all moronic! Sick of hearing it."

"OK now seriously. Any real thoughts?" (you assume I am NOT serious?)

You were saying Earnest???
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Go back read again.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You said what I believed was moronic and you say I am childish?
  
  You are the one sick about hearing me, so do not read it then.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That is twice you have deliberately or otherwise misquoted me.
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
Well then why do you not say it exactly how you mean it?

And why do you not stop responding to me....

you cannot stand me and you still talk?

Is that NOT "moronic?"
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
Earnest? What does your last name mean?
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Stillness and relax into the flow...so new age ! and not at all useful for people that work 8 hs a day or have to study more than 12 to get a title before 25
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhh young grass hopper
  
  First off, I am NOT a "new age" practitioner so what I am going to say does NOT come from said belief system.
  
  One can do all of his work and study and take care of a family and drive on overcrowded freeways and eat and deal with ones boss and coworkers and etc...While they ARE in perfect peace and stillness, having a relaxed calm demeanor all the day long. If one moves away from the aforementioned behaviors for a moment or 7...all one must do is return to THE PEACE that surpasses all understanding (I know Him) and carry on.
  
  Maybe if you learned this you would NOT throw anymore TANTRUMS ???
  
  One can be the owner of a company or even commander of 100,000 men and do this..... External circumstances NOT withstanding.
  
  Personally I NEVER say "I am doing OK 'under' the circumstances."
  
  I put circumstances where they belong and that is UNDER my foot.
  
  I do NOT and CANNOT "control all things"...anymore than a General in a war can but...I CAN control my thoughts, feelings, emotions and most of all my spirit.
  
  I love a certain quote that comes from a book you do NOT believe in Tantrum and it goes like this my dear man.
  
  "He that controls his spirit is greater that he who conquers a city"
  
  P.S. Getting a "title" before one is 25 is NOT as important as one controlling ones spirit.
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  phonereversetraceposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Haha! You are exactly the type of person I was addressing.
  
  Relaxing into the flow is of IMMENSE help to you! You think you can't work 8 hours a day or study for 12 hours a day without relaxing, breathing, and focusing on the moment?
  
  I work all day and do just that.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Amen!!!
  
  Hope you read what I told him too.
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
To Earnest:

I apologize to you sir, I missed a word in your quote when reading it and this was the cause for the misunderstanding on my part. Very sorry.

I work on the computer usually from 10am until 12pm everyday (breaks included) so missing a word can happen. Please forgive.

As you have said many times in so many words and if you do NOT feel this way then correct it.
"I have NO time for you and your nonsense, I do NOT believe in God and do NOT want His opinion or yours"

You have also said many times in forums that I am in, "I am outta here!...no time etc..." Well then again, why do you come back only to argue with me? Crazy men do this just like someone who has 2 minds.

That is why I got as you say "childish" and told you "if you are sick of something and puke it out, do you then put it back in your mouth?"
Now if that is NOT logical reasoning, but "childish"...well OK.

Even one Eric Graudins has told you to ignore me and you cannot, after you said you CAN to him, he challenged you to just bail out!!!

I think you are just beyond self control when it comes to making up your mind with a decision and then doing it and you most likely do it in other parts of your life.

If you say something, DO IT...very simple. If you fail to do it, then tell others you failed, do not just move on to the next thing "you are going to do"
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
First of all i'm no grasshopper to you, my dear God. 2nd, if u created the world (which I think not) you should know about human flaws not achieving going with that kind of flow,but going with the flow (or flaw) of stupidity. 3rd. A man who conquers a city is successful in winning a war. A man that conquers his spirit, is succesful losing some wars. Think about that God. You're a Hell of a Spirit !
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  OK man....the term grass hopper was a friendly term that comes from an old TV show called "Kung Fu"....sorry if I hurt your feelings. Tantrum is better, fits your character. I mean, you picked it out.
  
  Mankind thinks the way he thinks because he chooses to, not from thinking like I do.
  
  A man who rules his spirit and conquers the city has both.
  A man who only conquers a city and has no rule over this spirit will loose it to another who shall conquer him.
  
  Ruling your spirit is MUCH harder that winning a war. Winning a war means that the war is over, the war of ruling your spirit starts again every time you wake up.
  
  Like I said....The one GREATER is he that rules his spirit.
  A lot of Generals have won wars who had NO control over the spirit.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
ElElyione wrote
The solution is NOT man! big_smile
The best scientists in the world CANNOT concoct a potion to fix himself or you.

Of course not! Your creation is full of FLAWS! nobody can fix that!
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course it has flaws, mankind made a choice to NOT follow instructions and has blamed everyone from me the the devil to the woman to the dog, the cat, the bad hair, the government, the mommy, the daddy, the ice cream man and blah, blah, blah.....blabber blabber whine and snivel piss and moan and bellyache to no end.
  
  I created all things and when I was done I said it was "VERY GOOD"
  
  What mankind did after that is on him.
  
  Just like if someone gave you something to be in charge of Tantrum, given enough time...YOU WOULD SCREW IT ALL UP
  
  You know what is strange. I told mankind that they could eat from ANY tree in the garden....except for only ONE...and you know what, they said...NO, we will do as we please and never mind that we have dozens to choose from....WE WANT WHAT WE WANT and that is why we are in charge!!!
  
  Still goes on today Tantrum....
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
1- I do NOT want and do NOT have anything to do with "religiosity"!
Religion and the religiousness that I see going on makes me RALPH !!!

I simply LOVE God my Father and follow what Messiah taught, simple.
I add NOTHING to it and take NOTHING away from it.

2- I have ABSOLUTELY NO fear of death, in fact I laugh at it !!!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And I thought I was talking to God ! So ur only his sun?? And you follow a Messiah?? And ur saying ur not a fraid of death?? that makes u 2 human, just as the man that's behind the avatar, or I have 2 say the 2 men ?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And what about this ???
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can speak for me and I can speak for Him if He gives me the words.
  
  Very simple...just like you can speak for yourself or you can speak for your father if he tells you to say something FOR him tantrum.
  
  is this to logical for you dear man?
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Why did u put that f...ng tree in the first place ?! you're a sado-maso type of God and very soft n the head.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Mockery will get you mockery.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Like I said...you had the CHOICE to CHOSE!!!
  
  Would you rather i take away the freedom to choose....or would you cry about that too???
  
  I gave you plenty of trees but YOU wanted the only one I told you not to touch and you all still do it today don't you now?
  
  I bet if someone tells you not to touch something you will do it to prove you can....this is the way of mankind.
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You shoul have known better then. It's ur own creation, you God of All Errors ! So long old chap!
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here you are again, saying one thing and doing another....go to BED!!!
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Let's recall the story about Cain and Able shall we?
  I have a point so please read it OK?
  
  God spoke to Cain: "Why this tantrum? (see you are in the bible) Why the sulking? If you do well, won't you be accepted? And if you don't do well, sin is lying in wait for you, ready to pounce; it's out to get you, you've got to master it."
  
  Cain had words with his brother. They were out in the field; Cain came at Abel his brother and killed him.
  God said to Cain, "Where is Abel your brother?"
  
  He said, "How should I know? Am I his babysitter?" (typical denial)
  
  God said, "What have you done! The voice of your brother's blood is calling to me from the ground. From now on you'll get nothing but curses from this ground; you'll be driven from this ground that has opened its arms to receive the blood of your murdered brother. You'll farm this ground, but it will no longer give you its best. You'll be a homeless wanderer on Earth."
  
  Cain said to God, "My punishment is too much. I can't take it! You've thrown me off the land and I can never again face you. I'm a homeless wanderer on Earth and whoever finds me will kill me."
  
  God told him, "No. Anyone who kills Cain will pay for it seven times over." God put a mark on Cain to protect him so that no one who met him would kill him.
  
  Cain left the presence of God and lived in No-Man's-Land, east of Eden.
  
  See there, no tree, no serpent to tempt, nobody told him to do it either.
  
  We all have choices everyday Tantrum. Chose righteousness and stop blaming others.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
Ruling your spirit is MUCH harder that winning a war. Winning a war means that the war is over, the war of ruling your spirit starts again evry time you wake up.

So what's so funny? you're the funniest God I ever met.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
Tantrum ????

Are you saying that YOU CANNOT control and rule over your own spirit, soul and mind and thoughts BECAUSE you have so much to do?

What man...someone else going to do it FOR YOU?

And if THEY do NOT ..... you blame THEM?
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not saying that at all! you're losing it, God! If u were a god u wouldn't be asking... And I'm waiting 4 the answers 2 my questions above !
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then GO and rule your spirit and be on your way and DO NOT ask for my help because YOU DO NOT believe in me.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
I would b quoting my father, not saying i'm himself. That's psycho!! And that's what you are, 3 in 1! Not answering my questions yet....
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
I have NO FEAR of death because it has NO POWER over me!!!
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  tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Of course not, God! As u don't have any power over me! And you know I know, Who u are Goddy! I'm going 2 take a nap. Hope u find someone interested in this kind of arguments. I'm off. Bye !!
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ahhhhh....wrong again Tantrum!!!
  
  I hold the power of your life and your death in my hand.
  
  And when you wake up from your nap, should I choose to wake you from it, go and rule your spirit, it needs a lot of that.
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ElElyoneposted 14 years ago
Maybe a forum asking the question:

"How far is up?"
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L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years ago

I'm sorry, I saw this and couldn't resist...

I'm going to stop posting cats now.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Please write a hub on all the "CONTRADICTIONS" in the scriptures.
  Or just post them all in a forum.
  
  Regards
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No, I am not an athiest. Scripture can be taken as literal and metaphorical.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You said on your hub the scriptures had contradictions....prove it please:)
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not going to write hubs to demand and I refuse to get caught up in some philosophical debate online. I have said what I have to say...that is all.
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh OK...so if I said YOU are full of contradictions.
  
  Would you NOT ask for proof?
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No
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  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh I see...so you school house has NOT taught you that when you say something contradicts itself to be sure you can back up that statement?
  
  Seems like mummy and daddy have wasted a lot of money lad.
  
  Try it in the real world and be ready for a lot of ridicule and scorn and mockery. No doubt about it.
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  L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Firstly, my school is entirely free - it's a grammar school, not a private one (I still had to pass an exam to get in but it doesn't cost me a penny...it relies on natural talent not natural wealth).
  
  Secondly, I do not appreciate being talked down to for no other reason than you want to make youself look good.
  
  There are hundreds of places online where you can find the information you seek. I have neither the time available to post a hub on it, neither do I care that much about a passing comment which is accepted even by priests and men of the church. My parish priest did a sermon about how contradiction in the Bible is not an excuse to stop believing in God - if only because some of it can be taken as metaphorical and we can use our better judgement (provided by God since he made our every sinew) to work out what is expected of us. We are not acting as moral agents if we are simply following orders.
  
  Finally, just as a note to every zealot online, religious arguments are alright for supporting a belief in God (this is one thing I have learnt by being the only person who believes in God in my philosophy class) but the chances of you being able to convert someone is tiny. Most of the time it just irritates people and has the potential to turn them away.
  
  Ok, now I have said my piece.
  
  Luke.
  reply report
  61
  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well gee whizzzzz dear lad, you had time to write all of that and NOT post one single contradiction?
  
  Do you even know of any?
  
  Who cares what your priest said!!!
  
  And you posted that your are only 17 years old, so you do not belong on hub pages dear boy...that is in violation of rule #3 when signing up.
  
  And if you are going to call someone a "zealot"...then don't cry when they "talk down to you" dear boy....you are sounding like you ware panties.
  reply report
  0
  L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Right, you are really starting to annoy me...here is one...
  
  GEN 7:2 Of every clean beast thou shalt take to thee by sevens, the male and his female: and of beasts that are not clean by two, the male and his female.
  
  GEN 7:8 Of clean beasts, and of beasts that are not clean, and of fowls, and of every thing that creepeth upon the earth, (GEN 7:9) There went in two and two unto Noah into the ark, the male and the female, as God had commanded Noah.
  
  Seven or two?
  
  Happy now?
  
  Geesh
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  61
  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  "Right, you are really starting to annoy me..."
  
  So do I need to be concerned ???
  
  Is this all you have?
  
  The first verse is what it says 7 pairs of clean animals and 1 pair of not clean.
  
  The second verse is the same term dear boy, it means pairs, 2 is a pair, in the Hebrew it is pairs, pairs of sevens and another single pair.
  
  "Seven or two?
  
  Happy now?
  
  Geesh"
  
  And I was happy before now.
  reply report
  60
  Vladimir Uhriposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  61
  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You left out this part.
  
  "Right, you are really starting to annoy me..."
  
  So do I need to be concerned ???
  
  Is this all you have?
  
  The first verse is what it says 7 pairs of clean animals and 1 pair of not clean.
  
  The second verse is the same term dear boy, it means pairs, 2 is a pair, in the Hebrew it is pairs, pairs of sevens and another single pair.
  
  "Seven or two?
  
  Happy now?
  
  Geesh"
  
  And I was happy before now.
  report
2. 63
  kmackey32posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  hahahaha I love it.
  reply report
  81
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and helpful!
  reply report
61
goodfriendiamposted 14 years ago
This was a good forum started, but it has been taken over again. See, I know within myself that God does not work this way. He said to go into the world and teach those who wanted to be taught, not shove it down my throat. or any one elses throat for that matter. I thank God that I do believe. But I feel sorry for those, that have to listen to what comes out of your mouth. But I guess it does say, that it is not what you eat that defiles a man, but what comes out. Now you may email me all you like. But if you (ElElyone) do email me one more time, I will file a complaint with hub pages for harassment, and maybe they will take you off. But you won't get a reply from me. I came in here to talk about something with substance, and you messed that up. shame on you.
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0
L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years ago
I sound a bit like a zealot myself in the middle bit. I assure people this is only used to support my point against irrationality as an argument; please consider it critical thinking and not a religious lecture.
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0
L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years ago
Oh yeah, and for the record rants take alot less effort than finding proof (etc)...

You forget, I'm English, I'm naturally moody and constantly ranting

Also, the reason it doesn't matter that it contradicts itself is because it is a small fact which isn't important, it doesn't matter if it is two or seven, truth is it's what it stands for which matters. Religious or not.
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1. 61
  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am a Welshman.....so what is your point ???
  
  I do NOT make it an excuse for my actions, men do NOT make excuses, boys do.
  reply report
0
L. Andrew Marrposted 14 years ago
Well I am a boy so I shall use that excuse thank you.
reply report
1. 61
  ElElyoneposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And you posted that your are only 17 years old, so you do not belong on hub pages dear boy...that is in violation of rule #3 when signing up.
  reply report
65
coyjayposted 14 years ago
My Friend

In order to love you must be conscious. And man as he is is not conscious. we must make super effort to become conscious then we can begin to love.

Coyjay
reply report
1. 58
  My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My friend says:
  One need but yield to love and be conscience of love.
  It is love that make you even hear your conscience.
  To you, how is man not conscience?
  reply report
66
Make Moneyposted 14 years ago
Does uuummmmmmmm mean 'I don't know'?
reply report
1. 60
  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Meditate Mike, you have nice knowledge of the Holy Bible but will understand the Light that Jesus spoke off only be meditating and not reading.
  You will become the Light and understand the meaning of "I am the light, God and son of god."
  
  "When thy eye be single" Jesus
  reply report

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