Divine Intervention Contradicts Free Will?

1. 65

   Make Moneyposted 14 years ago

   

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   My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

   Love wonders though, what if one who has freewill asks for help from love and love says...
   
   “you are free to help yourself as I cannot intervene and go against your freewill.”
   
   This is a hard thing.
   Love would help if it could, but cannot violate your freewill.
   
   Love wonders why freewill is more important than love. If it really is.

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   wordscribe41posted 14 years ago

   Just insert "God" in place of love, right, my friend?

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      My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Love is not a title nor does it need one.

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         Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Just a question My Friend Shiyloh.  I thought I remembered reading in the Old Testament one time that the coming Messiah was then referred to Shiyloh, but now I can't find where I read it.  Maybe it was just in a commentary of some sort, I don't know.  Are you referring to Jesus the Messiah when you speak of your friend Shiyloh?

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            wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Gotta be:  Genesis 49:10-11. Until Shiloh Come
            "Therefore, Messiah would be Shiloh the King, bringing Salvation, Justice, and Judgment."

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4. 65

   Make Moneyposted 14 years ago

   Right.  Thanks wordscribe.

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5. 65

   Make Moneyposted 14 years ago

     Looks like love has conquered this discussion.

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   wordscribe41posted 14 years ago

   Love and hugs to all. 

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      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ty, much love back.

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      Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Right back at ya

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Love to all!

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7. 65

   Make Moneyposted 14 years ago

   And back to you wordscribe.
   
   Holy cow, Mark should be here for all the lovin that's going around.

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      My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Love says that thus far Mark has not argued with love here.

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         earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Your idea of love maybe. Mark is very loving here, he is trying to save the religionists from believing a lot of waffle! he is not hypocritical, espousing love and handing out hate as love from yet another religious tome!
         You god botherers had better be right about the god you chose out of the hundreds that are out there!
         
           "I have wiped out many nations, devastating their fortress walls and towers.  Their cities are now deserted; their streets are in silent ruin.  There are no survivors to even tell what happened.  I thought, 'Surely they will have reverence for me now!  Surely they will listen to my warnings, so I won't need to strike again.'  But no; however much I punish them, they continue their evil practices from dawn till dusk and dusk till dawn."  So now the LORD says: "Be patient; the time is coming soon when I will stand up and accuse these evil nations.  For it is my decision to gather together the kingdoms of the earth and pour out my fiercest anger and fury on them.  All the earth will be devoured by the fire of my jealousy.  "On that day I will purify the lips of all people, so that everyone will be able to worship the LORD together.  My scattered people who live beyond the rivers of Ethiopia will come to present their offerings.   (Zephaniah 3:6-10 NLT)
         
         Nasty, spoilt little god!

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8. 59

   My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

   Love is speaking only love here sir.
   You have read the hubs.
   You asked others to read them to understand where love is coming from.
   If love has offended you, please state how sir.

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      earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You are obviously a religionist, otherwise, why signal Mark out? There is nothing but hate and fear coming from the religionists, Mark has promoted neither!

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      1. 59

         My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Love merely replied to Mike, if you read it Earnest, it was only saying that perhaps Mark saw it and found it to be loving Earnest.
         That is all that was meant in love.
         No malice.
         
         Love is not a religion, nor am I speaking of one Earnest.
         Love is being spoken here sir.

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            earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            You wrote Mark, not Mike.

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               My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I wrote in reply to Mike if you read it sir.
               Mike mentioned Mark 1st and I made a positive comment back sir.

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                  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Positive comment? What about what you said about Mark?

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                     My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Which is what sir?
                     I said he did not argue...as in give opposition, find fault.
                     Mike said:
                     "Make  Money wrote:
                     
                     And back to you wordscribe. smile
                     
                     Holy cow, Mark should be here for all the lovin that's going around."
                     
                     The reply was:
                     "Love says that thus far Mark has not argued with love here."

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                        earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        OK Syhylo, I finally get it! Thanks, apologies. I thought you were saying that Mark did not argue using love, that is how I read it. You mean he did not argue with you. A little confusing!

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                           My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Misunderstandings are cleared up with love.
                           Yes?
                           Love is patient.

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                              wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              I like you, My Friend Shiyloh.  Love IS patient, no doubt. 

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                                 My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 I know I am NOT patient, love is, I can but only yield, get out of the way.
                                 I know myself all to well.
                                 It has not been easy to understand love.
                                 It is like a press.

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                                    marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    I would argue to say you don't know yourself as well as you think you do. I think you know your friend better than you know yourself.

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                                       My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                       I will speak of what I know about myself.
                                       I can be selfish.
                                       I can be mean,angry, ruthless, apathetic and unreasonable.
                                       I can be unsympathetic, lazy, careless, rude, disrespectful, quick tempered.
                                       I can be insincere, show no compassion, beat the tar out of people.
                                       I can be unforgiving, unloving and merciless.
                                       I can be right at home in prison.
                                       I can be happy in a 5th and a 6 pack a day!
                                       
                                       I can be all of these and more, much, much more!!!
                                       Just like the house I grew up in.
                                       Just like the family and relatives I come from with an average of 4 divorces per adult.
                                       One of them had 7 and was dead at 47!
                                       
                                       When I act, walk and behave in love, I am none of these.
                                       I think I know myself and my friend, I would rather be in love.
                                       I can do what I want or I can do things in love and out of love.
                                       
                                       This is why I choose to LOVE ABOVE ALL.

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                                       1. 59

                                          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                          Not all need to rely on a "friend" to teach love. Some of us learn it on our own. Your religious agenda is clearly shown. Do you think you are slick? You use "shiyloh" and speak in 3rd person as love, do you think you convince people that you are a prophet or you just trying to convert people to religion?
                                          
                                          
                                          Why did it take Shiloh to teach you love? Are you incapable of individual learning?

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                                             My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                             If my friend is love, then let love be my friend sir.
                                             All friends have a name.
                                             I have learned love from love, I do not understand why this offends you.
                                             It is from experience, the experience of love in my life.
                                             I have no religion to sell or push. I do not use the word.
                                             I only seek love.
                                             You can seek what you wish as well.

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                                             1. 59

                                                marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                lol Please say that Shiyloh is not religion related?

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                                                   My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                                   It is NOT...like I said, not at ALL!!!
                                                   Shiyloh is not religion related.

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   My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

   Love has love for all those here Earnest.

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10. 61

    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    My friend tantrum says
    
    

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11. 60

    Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

    "No, I am not anything, I have no title, nor will you put one on me because I do not receive it. "
    
    Didn't Prince try this once - like he was an "it" or something????

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       My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Love is speaking only of love.
       No title needed.
       Love is an action, not an it.

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12. 59

    XTASISposted 14 years ago

    I see you're having a hard time with the phony love guy  LOL!!

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I think he's having a harder time with himself. lol Gotta love wannabe prophets.

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          XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I'm sure he does !! he's very dumb LOL !

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I just think he's trapped in belief. What else besides religion would make someone write in 3rd person speaking as love?

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                XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                schizofrenia

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   I don't think his love has worked on you either. He's not a very convincing love prophet.

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13. 81

    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    I always have a problem speaking to the third person.
    The reference coming from the other than self "love" is a bit disturbing to me.
    The only reference I can bring to mind is a mother saying "Your mother said" to a child. It is a bit weird.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       lol just a "bit" weird? I think it's robotic trapped in belief. I also think he writes in 3rd person to add confusion. If someone says something about him, he has an out, love. He is scared to speak as himself.

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          earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Now that's a thought!

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             lol I added more. thanks

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                earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                read that!

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          My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Love has no fear, nor do I sir.
          Fear is given no quarter in my life.
          Even in war.

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Interesting that after I wrote my last comment, you continue writing in 3rd person as love. Point proved.

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                My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                If it causes you to "SEE" the "POINT" more clearly and focus on the message and NOT the messenger, then please insert "I, me, myself or Shiyloh" wherever you find "Love" written sir. Or whatever other word you see fit to give you understanding.
                
                If you are bothered by it.

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   I'm bothered that you are probably elyelyone or whatever the hell the name was. You decided to take a different religious tactic when 1st person conversation failed you. So now you type as 3rd person as love. At least you are making progress, I guess.

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                      My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      I have no desire to argue with you friend.
                      I have been taught to love in many things and that is all I want.
                      I spent enough time working outside of love, I am done.

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                         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         I thought that love doesn't give up?
                         
                         Are you not elyelyone? Is Shiyloh not religious? I speak to 1st persons, not 3rd.

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                            My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Love does not give up, when I said "I am done"...I am done working outside of love.
                            I want to act in love in all I do is all.
                            To live outside myself and live in love, act lovingly. Always.

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                               marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                               So, elyelyone has given up, but love continues to love? Have I got it? Oh yeah, Shiyloh has nothing to do with religion. How's that? Do you feel the love?

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                                  My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                  I do not give up if I stay within love, I cannot fail in love.
                                  What is this elyowne?
                                  I wish you would stop the trying to label me.
                                  I am just talking about what I have learned about love in my life.
                                  Accept it or reject it.
                                  Religion is not love, only love is, and it is not merely a feeling.
                                  To do what is loving takes an action no matter how I feel.
                                  
                                  Perhaps I should be angry?
                                  Upset, bothered?
                                  And fall from a place of being in love?
                                  Been there and done that.

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                                     marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                     I commend you for loving instead of hating, I simply disagree with the 3rd person preaching. I like how you spelled "elyowne", you admitted thats who you were by spelling it like that. Not as slick as you thought you were. Much luck to you and your love quest.

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                                        My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                        Quite frankly I do not care how to spell it and I took a guess after you wrote it, a typo is that big a deal to you to draw some conclusion that I am something I am not, you assume to much.
                                        If you are bent on finding fault with me, then go ahead.
                                        You and others have spelled Shiyloh wrong about 58 times, do I care?
                                        Get over it sir.
                                        Thank you.

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   I think you are missing the point. I'm not bothered by love, I am bothered by you preaching love. Your 3rd person conversation does not bring out my love, it is quite irritating. Do you enjoy speaking to 3rd persons? Be yourself and stop trying to be Shiyloh.

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                      My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Shall I rather preach hate? Fear? Lying?
                      I think not.
                      
                      If I had a friend named George and he taught me things, would I not say, "my friend George says ....________________________"
                      
                      Like one would quote somebody else?
                      
                      I am for the last time sir, I am not love and I am not Shiyloh, that is the name of my friend, no big deal.
                      But if it offends you that much, I can talk about me all day long.

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14. 59

    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    Shiyloh and love have nothing to do with religion.
    Not one thing...Nothing.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I like how you swerved around the question.

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    Perhaps some day you will understand those things that made you think and stop finding fault.
    You did not reply and that's fine.

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    earnestshubposted 14 years ago

    That would be out of character for love! You explained your position previously as I recall. I spelt it wrong at least once, sorry about that!
    The third person is difficult for me too as I have said. Nothing wrong with the message, but it's a bit like an interjection from an unknowable entity. No hard feelings here, you did say why you put yourself in the background.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Psychopath is showing    Freaky

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       My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thank you sir, I have no hard feeling either.
       I tried to explain and you understood, not all can.
       I will speak for myself if it's that offensive to the man.
       
       Maybe I should say "I learned this love I speak of from a man who wrote this book I bought at Joe's book's in the dusty used collection?"

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Is your book not the bible?

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             My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I say love is not a book.
             Action is not a book.

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    If I were working for a company and someone said "the boss says pick up your tools"...I do not tell him..."you are acting like the boss"..."you think you are the boss"...
    
    No, I just know he is speaking what the boss told him.
    
    So if I say "love says_______"
    "Love does_____________"
    "Love would___________"
    
    I mean nothing else so don't think that I think I am "it" !

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       wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       So, if I've figured you and this out, Love means God (or whatever God you believe in), so your God speaks to you, right?

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          My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Love speaks to everyone.
          The question is, do we listen to love.
          Love does have a voice.

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Do you not realize that you are blasphemy for speaking of love through what you have been taught by the bible and not admitting that you learned from the bible? What do you think love and God would say about that?

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                My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Blasphemy:
                blasphemous language expressing disrespect for something sacred.
                
                Disrespect love, no, I love and respect love.
                Love is learned through, pain, suffering, hardship, faith, individual experiences, endurance, family, friends, relatives, strangers, coworkers, marriage, children, encountering the unknown, overcoming fear and doubt, hope, patience, other people showing love to you and many other ways.
                
                If you look for love you can find it.
                Every situation has an opportunity to act with love in it.
                
                Looking at all things through the eyes of love is a learning process that takes time and patience until those eyes become keenly aware of love.

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Your blasphemy is failure to admit that you learn and teach from the bible. I believe your very idea of love comes from the bible, if not solely. You still deny this?

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                      My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      I told you where I learned love from and as an individual I learned it.
                      If some of it lines up with a book that talks about love, fine.
                      Some 30 years ago I asked love to teach me as I did not know it coming from the family background I told you about. Love did teach me.
                      
                      I am amazed that you being an individual, one that refuses titles and wrote a hub about it, are trying to put one on me with a vengeance!
                      I cannot make you believe me. Nor do I have to either.
                      
                      By the way, when you answer the question I asked you that you could not understand, and said you'd get back to me on it because it made you think as you'd never considered it before, and get a grasp on the statements in that post, then we can talk further.

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                         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         lol a vengeance? Not quite. I'm just asking you to tell the truth. Love hasn't made you find truth yet obviously. I haven't forgotten about the question. So the bible didn't have any influence teaching you love? How can you expect others to conversate with you when you don't show honesty? You call the bible just a "book" that your ideas line up with. Is it not blasphemy referring to the bible as "just a book that talks about love"? Why not refer to it as a "book that talks about hate"?

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18. 61

    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    I think we need an ambulance here !! Paramedics, please !!

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    Hi everybody !! ....and goodbye !!

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       lol that was quick

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I don't like psychopats! Calling ambulances, paramedics and all that ! I pass

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    Love has a will also, and with love will intervene for the sake of the love it has for a loved one.
    The intervention of love can be refused as well and often is because love is not understood.
    If love is refused, then the refuser is free to go their way and help themselves and lost no freedom.
    
    If one with freewill asked love for intervention and love said no, I cannot do that as it would violate your freewill, you can use freewill and individualism to intervene on your behalf, because as you say, "freewill should not be intervened with"
    
    What to do?
    
    Love has me baffled too.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Who do you ask for love when you have no one? I'm really looking forward to what you throw at me on this one. lol

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          My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Good looking boy in the picture.
          
          Come now Marine....why are you laughing? Is that the best reply you have?
          1-your question and laughing is not sincere and not asked in love.
          
          2-you did not address the statements
          
          3-you did not answer the question
          
          Do you have no one who loves you?
          
          I think not Marine....if that was the case....did you drive them all away because you rejected their love?
          
          And if all the people who said they loved you but abandoned you, you still would have love. People are not love, love in and of itself is love and if you have love it can never forsake you.
          
          Again.....where is a real reply to what was posted?
          
          Glad the birth went ok !!!

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Honerable comment, thank you. My new love if you will. lol Said it for you.
             
             I am just posing some theoretical questions to see your answer. There is nothing wrong with that is there? Why see it as a test? Why not see it as a conversation?

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                My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Your need to laugh at what is being seriously written would test any patience.
                But that is why it is called patience and a virtue.
                I wonder if you are learning anything here?
                Maybe so.
                
                You must admit that you have tried to be a bit contentious perhaps?
                I have many conversations with folks if they are sincere.
                Otherwise I have no time for them.
                Others are genuine and teachable.

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   What is wrong with lol'ing? Love makes me lol. Isn't it supposed to make you happy?
                   
                   Love does not lose patience, Love is not always taught. Love is not always sincere. Love is not always genuine. To answer your question, I am always learning.

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                      My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      The patience of love in not inexhaustible, patience is not something endless.
                      
                      Depending on ones understanding of love it can be quite enormous in patience though.
                      Love has boundaries and knows when to say "thus far and that is it"
                      Love has no patience for someone who attacks ones wife for instance, or your new boy.
                      No patience for wrong doing done on purpose to harm a friend. No patience for someone beating an old lady to take her purse.....get the point yes?
                      
                      You are talking about a love that is a lower form of love when you say...
                      "not always sincere".....not always genuine"....I am not speaking about wishey washey love that is emotionally tossed to and fro by circumstances.
                      
                      Maybe you can understand it this way. "Never leave a man behind"
                      I find it strange that you cannot get your head around a love like I am talking about having known and lived by Semper Fidelis.
                      
                      Can I make it any more clear ?
                      Love is ALWAYS FAITHFUL.....a loyalty so fierce it is unquenchable !!
                      
                      What do you mean "love is not always taught?"
                      Do you mean not teachable or not taught from one person to another, be clear.
                      
                      I laugh very often, but not in a mocking sort of way or belittling manner.
                      I do not laugh at trashy nasty disgusting things.
                      Pure humor is great.
                      
                      Genuine love can be nothing but genuine or it is not at all.
                      Sincere love too, if not sincere love, it is false love and that will be manifested soon enough.
                      
                      You have plenty to think about and I should not continue until you can answer the question and understand the statements that "made you think"
                      Otherwise nothing else will clear. The way you talk, you sound pretty young.

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                         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         lol You say I sound young? I haven't said anything. I would say that you write young. You write in a lecturing manner. You don't wish to conversate, you wish to lecture. Do you know everything? I think not. Maybe you would learn if you stopped believing you know all when you don't know love. You obviously don't understand love when you refuse to write any negatives of love.

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    You seem to think that if you have no person around, then you have no love to ask.
    
    This thought is shallow and does not know love.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Ok...How about someone that has no one to give or teach love? Love is not always learned without being taught.

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          My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Are you asking about a person who has nobody to teach them love?
          Nobody to give them love, show them love?
          
          Remember that love is a teacher and teaches those who seek it out.
          
          When the student is ready, the teacher appears.
          
          and not before then.

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    Love utters nothing in vain.
    So when you hear love, it remains forever with you.
    Love does have a voice, a sound, a tone.
    
    Silence is music ~ go study it.
    
    ~ Shiyloh ~

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Did shiyloh teach you that? What have you learned on your own? Seems like all you have is lecturing quotes from shiyloh. I don't think shiyloh taught you unconditional love when your love has conditions of patience. lol

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    Love is a two~edged sword.

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    Love can tell you are not yet 30 and have raised no children.

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       wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Once again, your love with conditions has lied to you.

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    Love is a teacher to those who can learn.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       More 3rd person lectures. Are you back to writing in tongue? Has the divine intervention of love took over your fingers?

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    My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago

    To quote The Marine:
    
    "Ok, I can't prove it wrong or right that love is divine intervention without contradicting free will. I like the idea though, made me think. I will get back to you on my idea on this."

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       To answer your question, neither hate or love is divine intervention unless there are physical actions of a divine hand. Love or hate without action is not intervention. So, there is no free will to contradict because no physical actions are taken.

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    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    I hope everyone is having a divine day!

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       rednckwmnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       AWWW!!!!!!! I have been away sort of. SO your baby was born? Sorry I am late, but CONGRATS!!!!! I see your first baby is doing well wiht the addition? I hope you are having a perfectly logical and happy day.

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Very Nice, Thank You!. Yep, the St. is his 2nd mom.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hi marine!! How's the baby doing ?? And what's his name ??

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Hello tantrum, He is great. His name is Braylon. TY for asking. You have a son as well right?

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             daughter, Deborah, ;but she's not a newly born

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                marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Ok, thought I remembered you had a kid, couldn't remember boy or girl. No more diapers for you?

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                   tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     No, thank you I'm on an eternal holyday

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    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    I think I confused Shiyloh by answering his questions.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       He was born confused !  All that 'love' thing I wonder who loves him ?

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Shiloh of course. lol

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I wonder...Even Shyloh must be fed up !

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    itakinsposted 14 years ago

    urely 'Free Will' means we can make a choice, to accept or reject ie., ask God to intervene or not.I think God often works through other people eg., medicine ...we can choose to be helped or not by a doctor,God may be intervening through this doctor to heal/help us...so we opt to have or not to have treatment.I think God intervenes constantly in our lives through the people we meet etc., but He never takes free will from us.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       lol Intervention contradicts free will. Did you not read from the beginning of the thread?

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          If god intervenes, he's taking Free Will away from us. And sometimes doctors kill us. So where is God's help in there ?

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Can I answer for her?

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                tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                go ahead!

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   The doctor was working for satan!

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                      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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    itakinsposted 14 years ago

    Yes, I read the question ,thank you.
    We have a choice to accept or reject God's intervention in our lives..in which case we are using our free will.
    The point I was making was ,as you appear to have mis-understood,is that ,that choice may present itself in many different guises........ok? one being through people.
    It's just my opinion.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       No disrespect, did you not see where me and tantrum discussed your very question? What about those that are mentally retarded or handicapped and don't understand religion or bible? We covered this already.

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    itakinsposted 14 years ago

    Intervention does not contradict Free Will...... acceptance or rejection of that intervention is USE OF FREE WILL.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Any intervention contradicts free will, as it may mislead. If you believe in God ,You follow rules which make you behave  good, out of fear of damnation. Only free thinkers have free will, as they don't have to follow no one, nor anything.

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          sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          lol if that were true then we wouldn't have rapist, murderers, child molester etc... they would be too afraid but they aren't so it doesn't really work out.

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             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You don't understand free will. Maybe you don't have it ?  murderers, etc, They don't believe in god, maybe. Don't you think.? Or they just don't care. And that's free will. Even if you don't like the results.

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                sandra rinckposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                lol maybe you don't understand free will. ;P What does god have to do with it?  Anyone can say they believe but no one really does and if they do they still chose.  There is always a choice so divine intervention can be ignored if a person so pleases.   
                
                Personally on a macro level, I don't believe in total free will.  I didn't choose to be born I cannot choose death, so when it comes down to it the only real sense of divine intervention ultimately comes twice in any persons life time. 
                
                Everything in between is just a blurp.  Believe in what you will (pun intended) but even when you believe you have a choice in whether or not you can extended or end your life, you cannot.
                
                All you can do is chose which ideology makes you feel better about ensuing death.

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                   tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     You were talking about divine intervention,  so I reply accordingly. And for me no divine intervention twice in my lifetime. Not even once. I don't believe in God.

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             If there was divine intervention, why would we need human intervention? If divine intervention, why do we need prisons? Why wouldn't the rapist's, murderers, be ended by the divine?

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well Said.

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    itakinsposted 14 years ago

    No disrespect,but I didn't ask any question.I simply responded with my opinion on the subject of Free will and Divine Intervention

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    XTASISposted 14 years ago

    Divine intervention contradicts free will. Thanks I'm an atheist!

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       lol

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    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    I am nothing!

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       XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I don't know you, but I'm SOMETHING ! Definitely !

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          If all was an illusion, would we still be something or an illusion of something?
          
          Is definately an absolute?

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             XTASISposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               We are something while the illusion persists. When the illusion is gone...Who cares! Nobody is going to be there to see we are nothing

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                tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Agreeing !!
                Hi marine !!

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Hello There

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    Fairbearposted 14 years ago

    Divine intervention and free will cancel each other out.
    
    Neither exists.
    
    Both are simply concepts derived by extracting, diminishing, and dividing into two the true nature of reality. In this way, neither is an appropriate representation, and both are misleading.

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