Christianity: People Don't Send Themselves to Hell, God Sends Them.

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Fairbearposted 14 years ago
This looks like a good time to point out yet another glaring contradiction that is currently riding under the surface in this thread.

On one hand, Christians talk about God wanting people to choose Him freely rather than forcing them to choose Him.

But on the other hand they talk about God making the consequences of not choosing Him so horrible and painful that no one in their right mind who knew about them would dare not choose God.

This contradicts. God wants people to choose Him freely, and then He tries to scare them into choosing Him?

I wouldn't want anyone to choose me just because they were afraid of the alternative. That wouldn't be a choice for me. That would merely be a choice against the alternative. It wouldn't be genuine.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You would think so right????
  And yet, even knowing of those consequences man still CHOOSES the consequence!
  
  And the opposite choices to that consequence are freedom, everlasting life, an eternity without pain, without auffering, without death, without illness or grief, without pain, without evil, without liars, without murderers and thieves, without ugliness, lving only with perfect beauty, living for all of eternity in a perfection so glorious man cannot even imagine it!
  
  To believe in that choice, to believe in the one who has created all of that for us? WOW what a hard choice to make there! LOL
  
  yep not genuine at all to accept and believe in Him. LOL LOL LOL
  
  You really think all come to believe based on the consequence, but fail to point out the reward!
  If you only had the consequence, there would be no choice!
  
  Our faith, our love for God comes not from fear of any consequence for it is by that faith we are free from it. Rather our love, our faith comes from the reward He promises. A life with Him in all its perfection.
  We love God, because He first loved us so much that even in all of our sin, all of hatred, all of our lust and greed, He loved us so very much he prepared a place for us in Heaven. That to gain access all that is required is for us to believe in Him, to love Him, to accept His pardon, His grace, His forgiveness.
  
  Now what on earth could be sooooo wrong or not genuine about believing in Him for that reason?
  
  Knowing and admitting that You do not know better than He. That you are a sinner and guilty of those crimes. And that even in all of that God sees you coming to Him. He asks for you to believe and accept His reward.
  Is that so hard a choice for you to make?
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How convenient for you to change keys now, when not too long ago you were making the case for choosing God based on fear of the consequences. You even start this post off on that note and then shift to describing all the good things about choosing God.
  
  If you're asking me personally why I don't choose to be a Christian, I'll tell you. It's like this:
  
  I see a group of people who call themselves Christians.
  I see a book called the Bible, which, for all I can tell, is just an elaborate work of fiction.
  That's all I see when I think about Christianity.
  I see no God, no sin, no Jesus, no Heaven or Hell, and I see no problem.
  So I'm just being true to myself and calling it how I see it.
  I guess if you want to call my being true to myself a choice against God, then have it your way. But I'm only being myself. I'm only being honest with myself. I look into myself to see if I believe in what you believe in, and I find that I simply do not. It's not a choice to me. It's just the way it is. In order for me to be a Christian, I would have to make an effort to convince myself that it is true. To me, that would be deceiving myself. I naturally don't believe it, and that's what I go with --my natural self. I didn't choose who I am. I just am me. And that's all I care to be.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Count me on the "not in his right mind" crowd. And the very contradictions you point out are the things that caused me to study religion for so long before coming to the conclusion that it's all claptrap.
  
  As to the "free choice" question Christian legislation wants you to have a free choice; between prison and what they deem lawful. Even if what "they" deem lawful flies directly in the face of "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion..."
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes, I agree with this. I would like to add that
  without the fear of a god made hell/satan the religionist has nowhere to go with his fear, as he has no delusional good that can save him from anything, so up comes the fear of death again. The teaching of religion always has fear of the deity enforced in it's tomes. The psychology of religiosity guarantees it!
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There's something truly sad about a threat of eternal damnation to get people to do the 'right thing.'
  
  Guess I had better upbringing. The golden rule being my primary guide. "Do to others as you would have done to you." A truly simple thing to remember and apply to everyday life.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  
  "Do unto others" may not be too good if you applied it to say Count Sade, or some of the extremists here! You never know what some people would think was ok to have done to them!
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Those are not the choices
  The choices are life or death, heaven or hell
  God made a place for us in Heaven just as much as he created hell
  
  It is a reward or punishment system. God is willing to reward and is just in his punishment.
  
  You don't want to accept and believe that is your choice.
  
  I like other believers have died to self. We turned away from sin knowing that we are guilty of it. We believe for many reasons. We did not start to believe out of fear alone, but out of the important part of the message we recieved, which was not hell, but the gift of life, salvation through His son.
  
  The fact is, you and others can twist your interpretation of Gods laws, of sin, of God Himself. And just as you deny Him now, so He will deny you then. There are no excuses for you in your disbelief.
  You can argue these points with God someday. You I am sure will try to excuse yourself out of the mess you may find yourself in with Him.
  But remember this
  EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue will confess That Jesus Christ is LORD!
  
  But you go ahead and believe in yourself right now if you are so willing. Try to convince God Himself that it is YOU who can save yourself, your soul. Try to reason your way with Him how that is even possible, considering that Jesus was the sacrifice for your sin, being pure and sinless. Are you then going to be able to PROVE that you are pure and sinless? I think not.
  
  I am done with this conversation now. I grow tired of it.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Try to convince God Himself that it is YOU who can save yourself, your soul.
  Its is you who can save your soul by meditating .
  There are many masters who sacrificed themselves for truth and not only Jesus.Please read about other religions and prophets to expand your knowledge.
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You say that but, somehow I don't believe you actually mean it.
  
  That is your choice and I DO respect it. However, I have heard all the proselytizing I care to and grow quite tired of the biblical language and particularly tired of the superior tone it's delivered in.
  
  This is what I mean. I twist nothing. But many of the Christians I encounter, who claim to live in the word of god, twist that very word to suit themselves.
  
  Just because you've had a jacked-up life doesn't mean that I have. Tend to your own messes. Stop assuming that I myself am a mess. It's highly insulting of you to assume so much when you know so little. It is particularly galling that you insist that it's your way or the highway. Your superior tone is telling. It tells me you have a great deal more "house-cleaning to do before you've earned the right to tell me or anyone else how to keep their house. It's not just your way or the highway. Deal with it.
  
  Once again a superior tone that you've not earned. How amusing.
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  mohitmisraposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very nice LiamBean This guy has no idea about god.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're taking the consequence out of context. God also commands us to love, and love is not motivated by the cowering, shaking in our boots kind of fear.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You're right to say that love is a motivation. That means I already love without being commanded to.
  
  And why, pray tell, should I follow God's command to love?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because you'll live better in this life and the next, enable others to do likewise, and there's no good reason why you shouldn't. Like I said before, the rules were put in place for our own good.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Does the "love" require us to continue to listen to the same thing over (and over [and over]) again?
  
  I think not.
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Mishaposted 14 years ago
I love Santa!....
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  Eaglekiwiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You been good Misha, ahem
  
  He only comes to good lil boys n girls
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My Friend Shiylohposted 14 years ago
Mercy wonders
if you spend your lifetime giving love to all
will you find yourself in "hell"
when you return to dust ?
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sandra rinckposted 14 years ago
People don't send people to heaven either...
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atomswifeyposted 14 years ago
To LiamBean:

Me: You don't want to accept and believe that is your choice.

You: You say that but, somehow I don't believe you actually mean it.

Me: No I do mean it, is it not your choice? Of course it is thats the whole point of the topic

Me: I like other believers have died to self. We turned away from sin knowing that we are guilty of it. We believe for many reasons. We did not start to believe out of fear alone, but out of the important part of the message we recieved, which was not hell, but the gift of life, salvation through His son.

You: That is your choice and I DO respect it. However, I have heard all the proselytizing I care to and grow quite tired of the biblical language and particularly tired of the superior tone it's delivered in.

Me: Did you mean in your "tone" to sound surperior there? I did not in any way meant to "sound" lol superior to anyone. I was using my life, my belief system as an example that just as you and other nonbelievers I am a sinner, I am guilty. The difference between the two of us is I along with other believers have made that choice to die to ourselves. Not that we do not sin ever, we do, but that we have chosen to not do what it is in our will to do but God's. Does that make us superior or better than you, the nobeliever? No. It makes us equal in sin BUT I would say better off than you in the long run of things as they pertain to Gods law, Gods judgement etc.

Me: The fact is, you and others can twist your interpretation of Gods laws, of sin, of God Himself. And just as you deny Him now, so He will deny you then. There are no excuses for you in your disbelief.

You: This is what I mean. I twist nothing. But many of the Christians I encounter, who claim to live in the word of god, twist that very word to suit themselves.

If you have encountered Christians that have done that, I feel that to be wrong.
The scriptures stand on their own. They are what they are. And no manner of twisting is going to divert from the truth it holds. Regardless of who it is that is attmepting to twist it.

And as far as you "not twisting anything"? I think you do and are in this very forum.
You take the scriptures and twist them to mean something they do not. You have taken the scriptures and twisted them to make a case against God. How is that not twisting anything?

You can argue these points with God someday. You I am sure will try to excuse yourself out of the mess you may find yourself in with Him.
But remember this EVERY knee will bow, and EVERY tongue will confess That Jesus Christ is LORD!

Me: But you go ahead and believe in yourself right now if you are so willing. Try to convince God Himself that it is YOU who can save yourself, your soul. Try to reason your way with Him how that is even possible, considering that Jesus was the sacrifice for your sin, being pure and sinless. Are you then going to be able to PROVE that you are pure and sinless? I think not.

You: Just because you've had a jacked-up life doesn't mean that I have. Tend to your own messes. Stop assuming that I myself am a mess. It's highly insulting of you to assume so much when you know so little. It is particularly galling that you insist that it's your way or the highway. Your superior tone is telling. It tells me you have a great deal more "house-cleaning to do before you've earned the right to tell me or anyone else how to keep their house. It's not just your way or the highway. Deal with it.

The mess I was refering to was the mess you would have created with God, if you do not accept Him, His laws etc.!
I have not had a "jacked up life" as you put it. I love the life God gave me.

But here we see that you have twisted and do twist even my words. I cannot see your life, I do not have to know you either to know that you are a nonbeliever. That alone makes you vulnerable to a mess with God.

But you are choosing not see that because of your disbelief, your pride.
You feel that I somehow attacked you there. But I did not, you came on the defensive to try to excuse yourself and draw attention to me and my life which you as well are not privey to.

It does not take rocket science to see that in your own words you write you are nonbeliever. Again, that does cause a mess where God and His laws are concerned.

You feel somehow that you are above the standard God has set. That you can not possibly be "a mess" with Him. That your life could not possibly have been made a mess through your disbelief, simply because you have chosen not believe. But the truth is, regardless of what you believe now, someday you will realize the error you have made there and too you will see the mess that you have created in your disbelief.

And this not as you put it "my way or the highway". It is Gods way or the highway! You will not stand before me or any other believer in that place of judgement, you will stand in front of God!

If you really read and did not twist what I wrote there you will see that I said " excuse yourself out of the mess you may find yourself in with Him." With who? HIM! and I even went so far as to put it in the context of "YOU MAY or in other words, MIGHT". As we all have the ability to choose to believe. Even you though now you doubt and disbelieve may one day prior to that judgement, accept and believe.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  snipped because it's so wasteful to quote that entire thing
  
  I thought you'd "grown tired" of this conversation.
  
  Sheesh!
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Fairbearposted 14 years ago
atomswifey:

I thought you said you were done with this conversation.

I guess you didn't mean it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  She does lie a lot. I understand that is a christian moral value....... From god. Like it says in the bible. Lying is OK if it is for their own good..........
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Since they are automatically and perpetually forgiven one sees a lot of this sort of thing.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  God knows when people are sincerely repentant and when they're just abusing the privilege of forgiveness.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A lot of us know it too.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It does not say that in the Bible. If you see something wrong with lying, why do it yourself? That only makes you a hypocrite.
  
  If you think you're so much better than the rest of us, it would help your case to act like it.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOLOL
  
  I am just doing as you guys keep asking me to. Make your mind up - are you doing unto others or not? I am all confused.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm not laughing at you. I'm not mocking you, and I try to avoid deception. Unlike someone who tells outright lies and then complains when he thinks anyone else is being less than honest. I'm even bothering to try to be nice to you because that's exactly how I wish you'd treat me.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are fooling yourself. All I am doing is offering you a mirror, but you are pretending it is a window.
  
  Tell me - do you believe every word in the bible?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not your interpretation. And funny thing about that mirror- I still can see right through it.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh Mark. You've just whipped out the "loaded question." Awesome!!!
  
  I have my ready reference to Deuteronomy handy.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL - This one will avoid that question - because like all the others - she just takes the bits she likes and conveniently wishes away the bits she does not.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes I suppose a pot could call a kettle black Mark.
  
  I think rather though it is you who take bits of scripture and conveniently wishes away the parts you do not like, or do not fit into your world.
  
  The Bible was and is inspired by the Holy Spirit and yes every word of it!
  There is no deception or lies contained in it, because it is ALL truth and honesty.
  
  For anyone to take it apart and dissect it to come up with any other conclusion, they are only then deceiving and or lying to themselves.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Big difference - I think your scripture is garbage. She claims to live by it. See the difference?
  
  And lets face it - it is garbage. And you are behaving in a non christian manner. Which means you think it is garbage also. Oh well. This is called "lying."
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  how am I since you seem to be somewhat of an expert on Christian behavior, but how have I behaved in a manner which reflects one opposed to being a Christian?
  
  How if in your belief that I have would anyone conclude that as lying?
  
  And the Bible is not garbage as you state! like I pointed out, every word in the Bible was inspired by the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit would not inspire anyone to write quote on qoute, garbage!
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Jesus said to turn the other cheek. You are slapping away. See the problem? You don't follow this garbage - so you are going to burn in hell for all eternity.
  
  So - if you don't follow it - how do you expect us poor unbelievers to?
  
  Garbage. Every word in that book is garbage. And you think so too - or you would be following what it says. This is called "lying."
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  How am I slapping you Mark?
  How are you slapping me?
  lol
  Please
  You there are trying to put blame for your own disbelief on me? LOL
  
  The word of God states we are to be lights in this world. We are to engage with nonbelievers in conversation and be a witness for the truth.
  
  If you take the words of scripture and call them garbage, you doing that is not because I have reflected it that way to you. It is because of your own personal rejection of it that you call it that.
  
  I state and quote the scriptures as they are written, in that there is no lie.
  I state the truth to you and others and you reject it. You can call it what you want Mark, I will not be held accountable for that.
  
  Do I or have I stated ever that you have to believe in what I believe? No.
  I state you either believe in what GOD says or you don't. Very simple. I state you have a choice to believe in What God has said, and then change your belief system, or you will face the consequences of not doing that, according to What GOD said.
  
  I did not write the rule book Mark. And I admit to not following it all the time. I do sin. I have said so many many times on here. That is not any way reflective of being deceptive or lying.
  
  But in following the words and teachings in the Bible we learn that even though, WE are yet sinners, even though, We sin against God, He loves us and wants to forgive us. I know that in my belief in following the teaching s of the Bible, I can go to Him and ask for that forgiveness and He gives it freely. I also have stated many many times, that it is not for I or me alone that this is the case, it is for ALL.
  
  If you or anyone else for that matter to reject that forgiveness, to turn away from His grace, to live apart from His mercy and His love, then you or someone who chooses those things, will suffer the consequences if you do not change your system of beliefs and come into the knowledge of truth.
  
  Upon believing, and this is where thuis whole topic gets off track, but if those who are willing to change and are forgiven, then their reward for this great. Even greater than the consequence of hell.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  LOL
  
  I will add some space just to annoy you as I know that you think that is annoying.
  
  I must admit - I am surprised at your incredible ignorance.
  
  Not that I am slapping you.
  
  I am merely telling you the truth in a loving manner.
  
  Are you still too ignorant to
  
  understand?
  
  Did your parents keep you out of school to teach you this garbage?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Telling the truth in a loving manner rather precludes being deliberately annoying.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You would think so wouldn't you.
  
  Odd that.
  
  Just not getting the mirror analogy are you?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I get it plenty well. And you've made it plenty clear you find a lot of people's posts annoying. We may be in agreement regarding more than a few posts. However, you just admitted to what I'd been suspecting for a little while now, deliberately trying to annoy people. I don't think believers share their views, no matter how disagreeable they may be or how grating their manners might be, to deliberately annoy you or anyone.
  
  This goes for you as much as for me and others. The qualities humans are quickest to criticize in others are often our very own worst traits.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So far off the mark that it's the best joke I've heard all week.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh my, but you aren't the least bit judgmental are you?
  
  I don't recall Mark quoting scripture. Did you quote scripture Mark? Shame on you. Don't you know heathens and pagans are restricted from quoting scripture? LOL LOL LOL LOL
  
  That is an opinion. Unfortunately many theologians with doctorates in the subject disagree with your opinion.
  
  That's your opinion. Opinion is not truth.
  
  Again with the absolutes. THIS is what I mean by a superior tone in what you write.
  
  By the way, it was I, Liambean that you said you were done having a discussion with. Not Fairbear.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I get that, but the subject on the conversation changed now didn't it???
  And though I grew tired of that conversation with you, though it is true that I grew very tired of the debate with you, I then chose to re-engage in the other subject in which you attempted to slander my character by claiming that I was acting through my tone as though I were superior.
  
  That is not truth, that is a lie. I am not nor do I calim to be superior to anyone!
  
  And how is it, that in claiming the truth about the Word of God being inspired by Holy Spirit, am I in tone reflecting superiority?
  
  It was inspired by the Holy Spirit. And thus, being that it was, those that would choose to think, state, or believe otheriwse are lying to themselves concerning it.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Bull-excrement!
  
  Your refusal to admit any other possibility.
  
  Prove it.
  
  That's an opinion; not a fact.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And how is it, that in claiming the truth about the Word of God being inspired by Holy Spirit, am I in tone reflecting superiority?
  
  Your refusal to admit any other possibility.
  
  There is no other possibility, period.
  If that sounds superior I think then one would have to look up the definition of that word
  superior: of high or superior quality or performance
  The Bible is of high quality and performance
  Its words are awe inspiring
  Even enough to change the hearts and minds of millions and millions of people throughout the entire world.
  So superior is it to any other book that man has yet to prove it being otherwise.
  
  By no other means did it come to be than that of inspiration through the Holy Spirit.
  The men who wrote the books of and the men who compiled its books were driven to do so by the Holy Spirit.
  It is the Word of God.
  
  It was given to us ALL
  So then, how am I quoting passages from it, being that it was given to us all, showing superiority of myself?
  
  I think rather it is you who show superiority in your comments about it.
  Look at another definition of superior:
  not subject to or influenced by; "overcome by a superior opponent"; "trust magnates who felt themselves superior to law"
  
  And do you not think, you thinking yourselves superior to the laws of God which are written within the pages of it, are being not superior?
  
  To challenge the Bible which is Holy, is to do just that, being of the mindset that you really know better than it.
  To call it garbage and the like.
  (not that I am stating YOU said that about it) But one who shares your beliefs did.
  
  Now here, I am showing you the examples and demonstrating where I believe you were in your tone were behaving in a superior manner.
  This is my opinion mind you, so that I am not taken out of context again,
  based on what you have written.
  
  But now I am leaving this topic as I have a doctors appointment.
  I will probably talk to you all later at some point.
  
  God bless!
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Out of context.
  
  Now THAT sounds superior.
  
  They are inspiring to you; not to me.
  
  As does Islam.
  
  At best that's a questionable statement and a matter of opinion; not fact.
  
  That's an opinion and in no way can be proven as fact.
  
  You missed the point...again.
  
  Well of course you do. You have nothing else to fall back on than to accuse me of the very thing you are doing.
  
  How about this one.
  "Superior: showing a consciousness or feeling of being better than or above others."
  
  That's the definition I'm thinking of. Guess you didn't get that far down the list huh?
  
  If I believed any of that crap you'd have a point. I don't. So you don't have a point. Get it?
  
  Preachy clap-trap.
  
  I don't presume to know what Mr. Knowles believes. I'm not so full of myself to imagine that I can based on the few short words he's posted here. But since you are "superior" I guess you have some insight that the rest of us lack.
  
  You missed.
  
  I didn't take you out of context. You are full of opinions that you state as truth, yet you cannot provide proof that anything you assert to be true is indeed true.
  
  I could write a book, make is sound mystical, and, if found, two thousand years later, have my own following. Not that it would make a bit of difference to me that many years later.
  
  Getting a new brain perhaps?
  
  I'm sure you'll take up the pulpit as soon as humanly possible.
  
  Please stop hurling insults at me.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said I was done having the conversation and or debate with fairbear. I was directing my response to her. That isw obvious as I quoted her.
  
  And how can you say that I have lied even once Mark?!
  Yet alone to accuse me of lying a lot!
  
  To lie one must state something which is inaccurate, a false hood, misleading etc.
  I have not stated anything which is any of that.
  You show me how and where you come to that conclusion.
  
  just because you do not believe what I have stated does not make any of what I stated a lie, misleading, inaccurate, or false!
  
  So again, I ask you, where is it that I have lied, even once.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually, when you said that, you were responding to LiamBean. Not me.
  
  Oh, and I'm not "her" I'm a "he"
  
  not that you had any way of telling
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I apologize for saying it was you fairbear.
  And no I did not know you are male neither more than the one who claimed me as being a HE.
  
  But the topic for this conversation remains the same, I have not lied or been misleading to anyone.
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
I have answered you. Hell is permanent estrangement from God, from love, from goodness, from happiness. Everything else is details that could be completely symbolic. It's the separation from God, love, and every other good thing that's as bad as it can get and, in my opinion, makes a symbolic lake of fire seem tolerable by comparison.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok, let me try something else. I know you know what I'm asking you, but you're still avoiding a direct answer.
  
  Answer this please:
  
  Is Hell unbearable?
  
  yes or no?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I think it's a silly question. Exactly what would or should anyone find bearable about eternal separation from all goodness? Of course it's unbearable.
  
  But some people may choose it anyway.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look Mark, Hell is total darkness no light. No light to see or read by, no light to see beauty or love, no light to think just darkness, no light to inspire, no light to give hope, no light to recognize a friend. Why would you sacrifice all that is good for pride? C'mon repent! Then you can observe and write about life from the other side of the street. A whole new perspective! In fact you could be the first to defend and attack your own positions!
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  All those flames provide no light at all? Interesting. One can "burn" in hell, but not see what's burning them? Wow! Whodathunkit.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  They're dark flames, you know, the black kind.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ok thank you for finally answering me in your round-about way. So, God made Hell unbearable.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yes He did.
  He also made the the opposing choice, GRAND and even greater than the unbearable hell.
  
  One would think as options and choices are concerned, one would opt for door 2(heaven) as opposed to 1(hell) there huh?
  
  I wrote a hub concerning heaven and hell and what the Bible says concerning both.
  You should take a look sometime, maybe?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's a rather large leap in logic. God did not intend for Hell to be unbearable for people, but to keep all evil contained. God does not even intend people to go there at all. If you choose to go there, you make your own eternity unbearable.
  
  When a farmer burns a field, it's to burn the chaff, the detritus left over after the harvest and the gleaning. Good crops don't get burned.
  
  Now if some person were silly enough to walk through the fire on purpose, what do you think would happen? Does that mean that the farmer set the fire intending to hurt anyone?
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Here you go again acting like God plays no part in people going to Hell. As if they just wander into it all on their lonesome.
  
  We've been round and round about this, and you've already conceded that God plays a role in people going to Hell. He set the conditions by which people go there!!!!! It was His design.
  
  So now you're saying again that God made a mistake. He wanted His creation to turn out one way, but oops! it didn't quite work out how He intended.
  
  People didn't just accidentally start going to Hell. God designed it that way. Nothing in the natural order of things occurs outside of God's design.
  
  Again. He could have dispensed with people in any way He wanted, but He specifically chose to send people to Hell for their sins.
  
  I will never tire of pointing this out to you. No matter how many times you ignore it or try to glaze it over.
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  sneakorocksolidposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Look hairybear, God doesn't want anyone to go to hell he loves us and wants us to love him and be with him. He sent out invitations didn't you get one? I'll put in a good word for you, ok?
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atomswifeyposted 14 years ago
mark said:
Did your parents keep you out of school to teach you this garbage?

How do you know Mark that it is garbage?
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  wordscribe41posted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Definitely kept her out of science classes! Knows not the first thing about it. Her bad.
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  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Because I had an education.
  
  I am sorry you did not - but - it is not too late. You are speaking about things you have absolutely no knowledge about - and that is clear.
  
  I am well versed in the bible and spent many years studying and reading it.
  
  This version you are talking about is garbage. Sorry.
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tantrumposted 14 years ago
So why was Hell created in the first place ?
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I'm guessing "hell" was created by people who want to threaten those that annoy them with something they themselves cannot deliver.
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  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  and I guess the same.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Keep on guessing then until you get it right
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Oh but you don't have a superior* attitude now do you?
  
  * showing a consciousness or feeling of being better than or above others
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Fairbearposted 14 years ago
Hell is nothing more than a theological defense mechanism.
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
It is the Christian teaching that Hell was created to keep evil and its agents out of Heaven.

Nobody wanders into Hell accidentally, no matter what C.S. Lewis speculated in The Screwtape Letters. And going to Hell is not a natural part of God's design, any more than any suffering caused by human choice is.

Did God make a mistake? Christian teaching says in one or two places that God expressed regret over making such sinful people. However, that's neither here nor there, as how God makes us does not absolve us of any responsibility for what we do to ourselves and others.

I also think things that happen as a result of our own decisions don't always follow strictly in "the natural order of things." They are things that happen by our own design, not God's. You don't want to go to Heaven, you don't go there, and it's your choice, not God's, who would prefer you chose differently.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  you're totally backpedalling. You've already conceded that God "throws people out of his kingdom." You can't make God a non-player in people going to Hell. You're trying so hard to, but it's impossible. Everything you're trumping up is non-biblical and contradictory to basic Christian theology.
  
  I've never tried to show that anything absolves people from their responsibility. You bring that up just to take the focus away from the actual point.
  
  God is the judge. He does the sentencing. He designed the punishment.
  
  You're also starting to contradict your own words. You started out saying that people going to Hell was just a natural consequence of people's decisions. Now you're backtracking and saying that it's unnatural. I could bring that post up if you'd like. It's one of the first things you said.
  
  You're just clearly playing games here. I almost suspect that you're just messing with me, because it's past the point of being ridiculous.
  
  The Bible repeatedly describes God as the judge who rewards and punishes the people. It's a basic element of Christian thought. You can't just erase it. You're redefining Christianity.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Convenient that you leave out other fundamentals of Christianity that conflict with your opinion that God is evil.
  
  The Bible describes God as a judge, yes. God is also loving, merciful, generous, and always right in executing justice, so in the unlikely event anyone goes to Hell, it's because they deserve it and refuse forgiveness.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  the opinion that God is evil is beside the point. I've said this a hundred times. It is only an opinion, and not a point I'm trying to make. You can't seem to separate it from the point. Which tells me something.
  
  My point is that God executes His justice. Period. Just like you said in this post. God plays a necessary role in people going to Hell. That's all.
  
  Now, if you want to say God is good and merciful and righteous, etc. etc. Fine! I won't argue with that. But just don't try to cover up the fact that He does the sentencing. He executes His justice.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The wgole point to everything Fairbear is that People choose to seperate themselves from Gods love and in doing that they recieve the opposite of it. It is an equal and opposite reaction to their actions!
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And if it is indeed perfect justice, as Christian teaching maintains, you are in no position to find any fault with God, so you don't really have any basis within Christian teaching for your opinion that God is evil.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I never said my opinion had a basis within Christian "teaching.' It has basis within Christian theology, which is something different. Christianity has a skeleton of elements that are immovable no matter what a particular sect of Christianity chooses to focus on or teach. Without that skeleton, Christianity dissolves. That skeleton is the theology that I base my opinion on.
  
  You can teach anything you want. Up is down. Left is right. Black is white. Etc. I am aware that Christianity teaches on one hand that God is the judge who rewards and punishes mankind, and on the other He is good and loving and righteous. This is Christian teaching.
  
  But to me, I see that the one hand outweighs and abrogates the other. I know that's not what Christianity teaches. It's just what I see when I look at it. That's why it is my opinion. It's my heart's conviction when I consider the elements.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But the two don't contradict each other. If love is unjust, it's not love, only arbitrary favoritism.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's exactly my basis. If it's arbitrary favoritism, then it can't be love.
  
  The difference between us is a matter of opinion.
  
  To me, if God loved everyone, then He would save everyone unconditionally. He would put everyone in a place where they could be happy and content after they die. No matter what that place was, or who the person was. To me, a loving God would never allow a soul to spend eternity in torment and agony.
  
  This is my opinion.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  So, if God loved everyone unconditionally, that would preclude what you describe. He'd behave in a singularly unjust and therefore unloving manner otherwise- and also force people into Heaven who don't want to be there. I think it's naive to assume that everyone wants to be happy for eternity.
  
  Loving unconditionally doesn't mean raising up a race of spoiled brats who always get their way and do whatever they want with no consequence. It does mean setting rules, boundaries, and consequences for when they're broken. Otherwise, it simply enables people to get away with behaving in an unloving manner toward each other. Does a loving parent just let an unrepentant child persist in doing what he or she wants- which could be tormenting innocent or repentant children- for eternity?
  
  Salvation has been offered to everyone. We just have to decide whether or not to accept it.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And this is your opinion. You think a loving God would send people to Hell. Very well. I don't agree.
  
  And I must be naive, 'cause I can't conceive of a person genuinely wanting to spend eternity in pain, suffering, and discontentment. And even if they did, wouldn't those then be the conditions in which the person was most content? It seems like a conceptual impossibility to me.
  
  I didn't say anything about Heaven. I just said that a loving God would put everyone in a place where they were most happy and content.
  
  People do what they want to do regardless of their religion. I used to work in a prison, and trust me, there were lots of Christian murderers and rapists in there. Their belief in God didn't change their behavior. And it's the same with people who don't believe in God. People who are unloving are unloving regardless of any eternal consequences they may perceive. And the same applies for people who are loving. They don't need cosmic discipline in order to behave in a loving manner. You may not think I am loving based on my activity on this site, but believe it or not, I am. And I behave that way simply because of my own natural tendencies. As I've mentioned to you before.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not a bad one. Let me take this further. If god is all powerful why not implant in everyone's mind the devotion and homage he expects? Why not create conditions that make it impossible for people to die of starvation, suffer from drug addiction (didn't he create opium and methamphetamine?), treat each other like dirt, and die in war.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But it is love. He is love.
  And he has offered salvation to everyone! He has saved everyone. Jesus already died for all of our sins. There is salvation in that. That was God showing His awesome love for us. He sacrificed Himself for us!
  
  But those who choose to seperate from that love, turn away from that salvation, are not saved!
  1 Corinthians 13 states all about what love is and in that as we know God is love then it too describes God.
  Those who choose to turn away from love/God they are then according to scripture, nothing.
  
  OK, God offers us salvation because of His love for us, we even exist at all because of his love, and it is for ALL of us, if we accept it, we are saved.
  If we don't then what? We are not.
  Simple
  
  And too, what makes you think YOU deserve to live with God forever in perfection??
  You state there well if God loved us all he would etc...
  He would what?
  What makes you so deserving of being with God forever in paradise?
  
  Do you think you or any of us for that matter really deserve something like that???
  No way!!
  God is perfect as is His kingdom, are you?
  Is anyone???
  
  So what makes you think you deserve to live forever there with Him for all eternity?
  
  The answer to that is very simple as well, WE DON'T!!!
  
  None of us really deserve that kind of awesome gift!
  
  But there are those who are willing to accept that gift, humblely. In all humility knowing we do not deserve it. We graciously accept this gift from God.
  
  There are those however who shove it back in His face. These are the ones who are not humble, but prideful, arrogant, every thing that is contrary to love.
  
  They do not accept the gift of salvation and instead turn back into their sin.
  Those people who were already not deserving of any gift from God, just as I and other believers are not deserving, those people reject that gift and thus have chosen their own fate!
  
  God does not OWE anyone anything! Whether He loves us or not!
  We are saved because of His love and grace
  We exist because of His love and grace
  We go to hell as a result of us not loving Him back, throwing those gifts He gave to us back at Him. period.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  This is where you and I differ. I have much better self esteem than you do.
  
  I do think I deserve to spend eternity in happiness and bliss.
  I'm sorry you don't.
  
  I suppose you're one of those humble, gracious people you speak of? Wow, you're SO humble!
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are exactly right!
  SELF ESTEEM
  Your pride
  
  So tell me oh perfect one
  What is that you have done to deserve it?
  What can you say as an answer to that?
  Because you are good? According to who? By what standard do you judge yourself on that? and there to poses that problem, You Judging yourself! LOL
  
  No I know where I stand as being merely human. A sinner. Lost without God. I thank Him for His mercy! I thank Him for His Grace! I thank Him every single day for that!
  Not that I am in any way shape or form deserving of that! Nor are you! Being Humble in all that is humility and sacrificing my "SELF" to become HIS!
  
  That is where the truth lies. And that is where we differ the most!
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Tell me some more about how humble you are. It's impressive to hear about it. I wish I was that humble so I could tell people how humble I am and how proud they are in comparison.
  
  Self esteem and pride are not the same thing. But I do have pride as well. I'm not as humble as you.
  
  Why do I deserve eternal happiness and bliss?
  
  I don't know really. I just do. I always have. I was born that way. I didn't have to do anything for it.
  
  I think you deserve it too.
  
  considering how humble you are. lol!
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You do not think it arrogant to assume you derserving of an eternity with God it all its perfectness?
  And you feel you deserve it, because you, uhm,.. you were born?
  Yeah not a bit of pride or arrogance in that satement at all...you are right, I apologize oh perfect one
  
  And uhm, ok
  I know where I stand as being merely human. A sinner. Lost without God. I thank Him for His mercy! I thank Him for His Grace! I thank Him every single day for that!
  Not that I am in any way shape or form deserving of that!(Note this is where the humility is) Being of the mind and heart to freely admit, openly admit that not one of us is deserving.
  Being Humble in all that is humility(Jesus) and sacrificing my "SELF" to become HIS!
  
  yeah uh, guess you could construed that as me telling you how humble I am????
  whatever
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yeah, I think I deserve it simply because I was born. Simply because I exist. And I think you deserve it too. And so does everyone.
  
  Oh, so was I mistaken? You aren't one of those humble and gracious people who humbled themselves to accept God's gift? I thought you were. Sorry, my bad.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  The humbleness comes from knowing that we are not deserving. That God in all that He is, is perfect. That his Kingdom is perfect. And to deserve something so grand as to be with Him in all that perfection, we do not deserve, but that He is gracious to forgive to allow us to be there with Him.
  It is His grace that is perfect.
  It is He that is perfect.
  And how is that one can assert they are deserving of something which is so perfect, when they are born into sin? Being covered and so completely dirty with it?
  
  Yes God does not hold that sin accountable to those newly born nor does He of children who are not yet aware of Him or that grace. They are not accountable.
  
  But you who are now very accountable and at the age of accountability are accountable and still have stored up your sin carried it with you all your life thus far.
  
  Knowing that, being aware of that, being aware of Him and His laws are now not deserving whatsoever in recieving that perfection.
  
  Being humble before God and admitting where you have gone wrong in your disbelief, your sins is where you find forgiveness for them. In that and through that faith and acknowledgment, admittance God then sees fit to allow you not the gift of paradise, but the gift of His grace!
  
  It is because of that gift (grace) we are allowed to live with Him forever in paradise.
  Grace is given freely to anyone who accepts it.
  Who are the ones who accept it?
  Those who freely admit they NEED it.
  How does one come to Needing it?
  By the realization that we are not born worthy of it. And too the realization, that a lifetime of doubt and disbelief/sin has been stored up. Making you even more then, not deserving/worthy.
  
  Now before you or anyone else jumps on me about being born "not worthy" Let me again explain:
  God does not hold babies or children accountable. They do not have this knowledge either way. Not knowing they are then still not worthy, as they are born into sin, but God gives to them the gift of His grace anyway should they come to Him while yet so young and so not held accountable.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I've heard many definitions of HELL. I like the one that describes hell as being the absence of the presence God. And God certainly has the right and privilege to not enjoy anyone's company that he chooses. I guess that would make everything GODS fault.. ?????
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atomswifeyposted 14 years ago
If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing.

And who is God? God is LOVE
If you have not Love, you are nothing. Period.
When a person chooses to seperate themselves from this love, God's love, God Himself who is love, that person has now become nothing.

Hell in all of its interpretations is a place for that nothing. God says in His word, he has prepared a place for us as well as those who have seperated themselves from Him, from His love.

Those that choose to love God as is the first commandment, the most important one, they as an equal and opposite reaction to that action of love, are then kept in the promises of what God in loving them has prepared for them as well.

A place of peace
A place of joy
A place of contentment
A place free from burdens
A place of everlasting promise
Free from sin
Free from Death
Free from illness
incapsuled in total beauty and perfection.

Loving God is not just blind faith!
It is seeing with the spiritual eyes that God gave each of us. It is hearing Gods voice admist the turmoil and chaos of life.
It is knowing who you are in Christ, In Gods love and wanting to be a part of that forever.

If you do not want to be a part of that, it is your choice.
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Valerie Fposted 14 years ago
Fairbear, I believe you are confusing unconditional love with unconditional acceptance. Would you accept a family member into your home who is unrepentant of bullying, beating, or otherwise abusing your children, who you know is determined to not let go of such behavior?

I wouldn't. That doesn't mean I love the family member any less. But it is for the good of those in my home that I keep evil out to the best of my limited human ability. To welcome an unrepentantly evil person into my home would actually be less loving to the people within.

That's right. I do believe that God originally created Hell to keep others from making a Hell out of Heaven.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Very good points Valerie!
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  My reasons for thinking God is evil have nothing to do with Heaven and everything to do with the nature of Hell.
  
  Instead of Hell, God could've created a second Heaven for all the "bad" people. That way they wouldn't be able to hurt the "good" people, but they would still get to be happy.
  
  Whatever. The point is He could have done anything. But He chose to send the "bad" people to a place of pain, suffering, and torment for all eternity. He didn't have to do that.
  
  That's why I think He's evil. Understand?
  
  If he loved everyone, He wouldn't deliberately put anyone through an eternity of Hell. There's no love in that.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  But he doesn't deliberately send anyone to Hell. Understand? The options are presented to us. We know the consequences. If we choose them, that's our responsibility and not God's.
  
  And who says God specifically made Hell a literal lake of fire? I don't believe it. Separation from God, from love, from goodness is torment enough. Even if it were a place of literal fire and brimstone rather than a place where we're stuck with our sins, who says God made it that way? We don't need God's help making any place Hellish.
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I said nothing about responsibility. And you've already admitted that God does send people to Hell. I'll find it and repost it for you if you say otherwise.
  
  Whether or not the fire in Hell is literal or figurative, it's still fire. That is the most dominant feature found in any biblical description of Hell. They used the word "fire" to describe that Hell is unspeakably painful. Whether that's physical or spiritual doesn't matter. Are you now trying minimize Hell's intensity?
  
  Why can't you just accept that I have an opinion that's different from yours? I don't mind that your opinion differs from mine. The topic of this thread has been settled between you and I. Again, I'll pull it up and show you if you want.
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I can accept that you have an opinion that's different. But I cannot honestly claim that your opinion of Christian teaching on this matter is sound. You have presented not just one, but a couple of misconceptions or perhaps misrepresentations of Christian teaching. Your opinion stands on premises that aren't true, and you have ignored aspects of Christian teaching- such as free will- that are considered much more important just to reiterate the same baseless opinion that God's at fault for decisions we've made.
  
  If you go around claiming someone is evil, why would you want to be included at any party of theirs anyway? That strikes me as a bit... irrational.
  
  As for God taking a day off, who are we to determine how long a day is to an infinite being?
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  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Did you miss the umpteen times I explained that I'm not making a statement about Christian teachings?
  
  Do I really need to explain that again?
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  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Ah, but you did make a statement on Christian teachings- that Christianity can't really mean what it teaches about God being loving if there is even such a thing as Hell, and such.
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Fairbearposted 14 years ago
Atomswifey:

Thanks for the sermon.

That's all good and fine.

You go on thinking you're a dirty despicable sinner who has graciously humbled yourself, and I'll go on knowing I am a beautiful, blameless, perfect creature who deserves nothing less than the best there is in this life and in whatever life there is after this one.
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Actually she seems to think she is our collective savior. And I for one am tired of the sermons.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Then don't read them
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stop posting them. You know, don't you, that what you are doing is a form of spam?
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It is not spam at all. atomswifey has the right to post about religion all he wants in this Religion forum. On the contrary LiamBean you are kind of off topic which goes against the HubPages TOS.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  And thank you Make Money But I am a she lol its ok
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  Make Moneyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Your welcome. And sorry.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  SPAM???
  Are you kidding me??? LOL
  The whole point of the forum is to express ourselves, our beliefs, and talk about theology, religion, etc. And that includes whether you like it or not, Christian faith as well.
  
  Why do I not post them?
  Because there is a little thing like the freedom of religious expression.
  
  Spam is an issue about consent, not content so I guess we would all be spamming then huh?
  
  But then again, uhm , no as we have consent from the site itself in forming the forums
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  When your posts take up an entire page. Yes, spam.
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  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  spam is not based on content and is not even meant to be applied to forums.
  It is a luncheon meat, best served in a sandwhich after it has been fried up, or at least thats what I have been told, don't really touch the stuff myself.
  
  This is wayyyy off topic though Liambean which is breaking forum rules.
  So I will end with this:
  God loves you
  Search your heart and you will find Him
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  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  See? This isn't spam because it's short, to the point, and doesn't take up an entire page.
  
  I'm not breaking forum rules in pointing out that most of your posts are spamlike, if not genuine spam.
  
  I do hope you realize that once your posts reach a certain word length, the likelyhood that anyone will read them drops off very sharply.
  
  If you feel I'm in error by all means let the hugpages "police" know about it. I'll be quite happy to give them my impression of your posts.
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Make Moneyposted 14 years ago
Oh Fairbear your contradictions are just too "in your face". It's clear you are starting your threads just to argue with Christians. To prove my point I will copy and paste a quote of yours from this other thread that you started. I had to copy and paste because the thread was closed but you can find your post and my reply to you on this page,
http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/21163?page=9

Your quote

My reply to you

If you "don't believe that people come back to life after they die" then you don't believe in heaven or hell. If you don't believe in heaven or hell then why would you start a thread titled "Christianity: People Don't Send Themselves to Hell, God Sends Them" unless it was for the sole purpose of arguing with Christians? You are not looking for answers at all Fairbear. Clearly you are just starting your threads to argue with Christians. A complete waste of time.
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Jeramiposted 14 years ago
I'm having a party and you do not behave, and won't get along with any of the other guest , you do not get to stay at the party. Absence to the party can be described as HELL.
It is kinda like that
And you should say I don't wanta be there if I have to act like them
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getitriteposted 14 years ago
This whole ongoing debate is insane-and sad. Why the hell did God just leave us here like this, with no real, TRUE answers to anything?
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  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  What is TRUE?
  
  Do you have true answers?
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2. 80
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  There are answers to a lot of things, but there is no god involved in any of them.
  reply report
  60
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Are you typing in your pajamas again?
  reply report
  80
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Not me, it's lunchtime! You are mistaken. Not unusual.
  reply report
  60
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Good to see you too
  
  When does 1+1=1 ?
  reply report
  80
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  No doubt like your other little life "puzzle".... Whatever you want it to!
  reply report
  60
  quietnessandtrustposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Answer is:
  When you are married.
  reply report
3. 80
  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  That's the Deist philosophy. God created everything and then left.
  reply report
  60
  Valerie Fposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Even Judaeo-Christian teaching allows for the possibility that God took "a day" off.
  reply report
  80
  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  A day off is not the same as leaving and not coming back.
  reply report
  57
  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  It says he rested, not the same thing as a day off. And how do you know He left? And as far as coming back?
  We will see that day.
  
  I love this poem by a little girl who had visions at the age of 4, of God. She was born to atheist parents and is a child prodigy. She paints magnificent oil paintings. www.akiane.com
  
  I urge you all to visit this site its amazing and read this poem she has on the home page, I think it answers the question some have on Gods "silence".
  reply report
  80
  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Apparently you aren't following the thread of the discussion.
  
  getitrite made a statement about "god just leaving us here like this."
  
  I explained that's the deist view of god.
  
  ValarieF said "Even Judaeo-Christian teaching allows for the possibility that God took "a day" off." and I pointed out that taking a day off is not the same as leaving for good.
  
  Do I really need to summarize what others are saying...HERE?
  
  You do not seem to be the least bit interested in discussion, but seem to be taking this thread as a means of preaching without having to actually participate.
  
  In other words SPAM!
  reply report
  57
  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Get over yourself Liambean and stop accusing me of such things!
  I have just as much right in posting here as you do!!!
  reply report
  59
  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  reply report
  59
  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I remember when I was younger and my children were fussing about nothing and I couldn't get them to shuditup, I took the day off to the bar ..... then I had to go back cause it was my responceability.... I did cause I said I would be there. Maybe God godda do that too.
  reply report
  59
  Jeramiposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Yea
  reply report
  80
  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stop spamming!
  reply report
  57
  atomswifeyposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Stick to topic!
  reply report
  80
  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You are not even following other posters on this topic and you tell me to stick to the topic?
  
  This is the topic.
  
  People Don't Send Themselves to Hell, God Sends Them.
  
  I am. You aren't. Get with it.
  reply report
60
quietnessandtrustposted 14 years ago
Blaming.....God.....the easy way to relief.....or rather...to illusions, delusions and contusions.
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59
Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago
It would seem to me that after reading hundreds of fairbears posting, that he is ever learning and not coming to the knowledge of the truth.

These kind enjoy the appearance of godliness, but deny the power thereof.

Not wanting to get to close so as to know the truth, the endlessly question it.

I would stop replying to him completely and for your own good.

It is a total waste of time, effort and energy!!

In other words, cease casting !!!
reply report
1. 80
  LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Considering that he started this discussion that's entirely up to him. And because he started this topic I'd have to say you are entirely welcome to opt out of this discussion. As the saying goes "don't let the door hit you in the arse as you leave."
  reply report
  59
  Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  As if I did not know that.
  Posted it because I can and there is no door.
  reply report
2. 57
  Fairbearposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I thought you and I were on good terms. I have no problem with you, what's your problem with me? What's with the degrading comments?
  reply report
73
Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
Im always taking the day off
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73
Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago
Some people believe we are already in hell,so expediants gonna make a huge killin
reply report
57
atomswifeyposted 14 years ago
I took a look at shauls topic and read it, no more comments from me in here to those he remarked about.

And all of them can shout for joy!
reply report
1. 59
  Shaul Steinposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  Well said.....wisdom speaks to the wise.
  reply report
66
Nickny79posted 14 years ago
These theological distinctions are over my head...
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71
getitriteposted 14 years ago
While this seems like a rational debate between everyone here, it is nothing but a forum for people to dig in and cling even harder to their beliefs-no matter how ludacris. Reason left this debate at the outset. Only a few people are actually reading and comprehending, clearly, what is being said.
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80
earnestshubposted 14 years ago
A rational discussion is only available to those who have something rational in their thinking. No chance of that with any extremist.
reply report
59
Shaul Steinposted 14 years ago
URGENT message to all believers at the link below.

Please read BEFORE you reply in here again.

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/21507
reply report
1. 80
  earnestshubposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  You have your orders! Obey now!!
  reply report
  57
  Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this
  I am getting confused now. First they say there is an invisible super being - then when we make fun of their silly beliefs they attack us until we agree - and when we don't do that they tell each other to run away from the discussion.
  
  What an odd religion.
  
  No wonder I cannot bring myself to believe in the sky fairy with the penchant for pretending to love some one and at the same time ensuring an eternity in pain for them.........
  
  I give daily thanks to people like dead dog guy here for reminding me how silly it all is though.
  reply report

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