dinamars wrote:

RFox wrote:

I agree with Misha that truly spiritual people will have a wide open mind.

I do think so too. Unfortunately there is only few people in this world having such character, and usually these people I know let themselves to remain "unknown"...

dina

That is true.

And Jenny: I'll definitely read that book. I'm surprised I haven't already. I have always believed that It's people's fear of death and wanting to live forever in some form that is the driving force behind decisions.

Imagine a scale which runs all the way from the dogmatically religious at one end (a score of +10) to the dogmatically atheist at the other (a score of -10).  By dogmatic, I mean they won't consider any other view but their own.

You'll find lots of people at the +10 end, but virtually no one at the -10 end.

That's what religious fundamentalists can't understand.  They are very closed-minded at their end of the scale, so they assume those at the other end of the scale must be the same.  However, all atheists are willing to be converted, if they can be shown proof that God exists.  Certainly, they will argue (sometimes vehemently) against his existence when faced with unproven claims and poor logic - but their minds are not closed.

True religion, if you will...  embraces all people.

I also believe, that true religion teaches love, tolerance, peace and understanding.  From my own personal experience with religion - there is no need to argue about who is right or who is wrong.

Each one of us, has personal beliefs about life.  Whether they spring from religious teachings or philosophy...  all should be respected. 

For me, I always enjoy not only sharing what I believe, but also understanding that which others believe.

I think that the problems begin, when one person insist upon being right in conversation with another having different opinions.  It is much better to discuss religion, from the perspective of a teacher or student.

Just share and allow others to form their own opinions.  When people feel threatened and need to defend what they believe - problems will arise.  Religion is not coercive, but more...  enticing.

I really appreciate those who allow me to share what I believe.  I think this is so respectful.  I always hope others will share with me, knowing that I too learn much from them.

HP is a great example.  I have learned so much from many others of different faiths, which have added to what I already believe...  It is awesome!

Anytime a person becomes aggressive or offensive - I will turn and walk the other way. 

Religion, for me - is to form bonds, not to burn bridges with.  At least not the religion that has blessed my life.

Great thread.

tDMg
LdsNana-AskMormon
Kathryn

Open mindedness is also relative.  I have seen some people who claim to be spiritual and open minded judgemental towards people that are not more "open minded" like them.  For instance, some people will tell a highly religious person that they are not open minded if they are not open to living with someone before marriage.  I think open mindedness is a highly relative.  Basically, being open minded means you try to understand why everyone thinks the way they do and try not to judge them.  Also, using sweet and kind words is a big part of being open minded.  You never jump to a conclusion and feel someone's interpretation is more reactionary than yours, etc, etc.

I consider myself spiritual, but probably wouldn't describe myself as religious. Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I pray? Yes, sometimes it is all that keeps me going. But I have no desire to be associated with 'religion'.

Humans are the problem with religion. Religion teaches love and acceptance. Anytime people get involved, it always comes down to a power struggle, greed, and other nasty human vices. I quit attending church a long time ago because of this very reason. I would love to find a church with loving, accepting people, but I'm not holding my breath.

SweetiePie wrote:

...being open minded means you try to understand why everyone thinks the way they do and try not to judge them. 

Exactly.  An open-minded person is happy to enter into friendly debate about their views or beliefs and expects others to do likewise.  Closed-minded people think a debate has to have an outcome - someone has to "win" by having their view prevail.  An open-minded person is prepared to agree to disagree.

Angela Harris wrote:

I consider myself spiritual, but probably wouldn't describe myself as religious. Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I pray? Yes, sometimes it is all that keeps me going. But I have no desire to be associated with 'religion'.

Humans are the problem with religion. Religion teaches love and acceptance. Anytime people get involved, it always comes down to a power struggle, greed, and other nasty human vices. I quit attending church a long time ago because of this very reason. I would love to find a church with loving, accepting people, but I'm not holding my breath.

A close friend of mine thought she had found just that, until she was sexually abused by one of the senior members of the congregation and had the temerity to complain ....

Hi Hooksey

That sometimes seems so such a difficult thing to answer.  Often I think its because we loose sight of the fact that we are all God's children.  I am a highly religious person and one of our Articles of Faith says We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. (11th Article of Faith)

Often I feel it is because of intolerance and ignorance that people become nasty when trying to defend their beliefs.  If any faith promotes and encourages their congregations to improve themselves, develop faith, encourages service to others and to practice tolerance then it can only be of benefit no matter what faith it is.

Inspirepub wrote:

Angela Harris wrote:

I consider myself spiritual, but probably wouldn't describe myself as religious. Do I believe in God? Yes. Do I pray? Yes, sometimes it is all that keeps me going. But I have no desire to be associated with 'religion'.

Humans are the problem with religion. Religion teaches love and acceptance. Anytime people get involved, it always comes down to a power struggle, greed, and other nasty human vices. I quit attending church a long time ago because of this very reason. I would love to find a church with loving, accepting people, but I'm not holding my breath.

A close friend of mine thought she had found just that, until she was sexually abused by one of the senior members of the congregation and had the temerity to complain ....

Wow, Inspirepub, that is so sad. I really sympathize with your friend. I can't say that I'm surprised, though. I've heard similar stories from churchgoers. And just like many rape cases, the victims had fingers pointed at them and the abusers were protected. I hope that your friend doesn't lose her faith because of it.

This is not to say that I believe that ALL churches are terrible. It is just that I've yet to find a church where I felt the members were sincere. And it's just not worth the effort to me anymore. I'll learn about God on my own, thank you.

As a matter of fact, I'll elaborate one step further. If I meet someone and the first thing that comes out of their mouth is how religious they are, I get out of there fast. In my experience, these are the very people that will put a knife in your back, gossip, and screw you out of money quicker than anyone. I'll choose any of my friends that like to party and haven't set foot in a church for years anyday. (And I'm not much of a partyer.)

Again, these are MY personal and business experiences. I know one person that is an avid churchgoer that I think is truly sincere. But she doesn't try to convince me how religious she is every other sentence, either.

(I have a feeling I am going to regret this post.)

Karen and Lesley wrote:

Hi Hooksey

That sometimes seems so such a difficult thing to answer.  Often I think its because we loose sight of the fact that we are all God's children.  I am a highly religious person and one of our Articles of Faith says We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. (11th Article of Faith)

Often I feel it is because of intolerance and ignorance that people become nasty when trying to defend their beliefs.  If any faith promotes and encourages their congregations to improve themselves, develop faith, encourages service to others and to practice tolerance then it can only be of benefit no matter what faith it is.

Hi Karen and Leslie (?)

I too am Mormon, which is obvious.  LOL  Thanks for your comment.  I agree with what you have said here.  Mormonism teaches these wonderful principles for which I am so grateful.  I can't imagine considering or calling myself "religious" and not practicing these very basic tenets of Christianity.

Angela - I am so sorry that these are the experiences that you have had... but, you are right - this is more the common experience of many.  Therefore, "religion" is often given a bad name, in His Name, which is horrible IMHO.

I hope to leave a better taste in your mouth.  LOL

Kathryn

LdsNana-AskMormon wrote:

Angela - I am so sorry that these are the experiences that you have had... but, you are right - this is more the common experience of many.  Therefore, "religion" is often given a bad name, in His Name, which is horrible IMHO.

I hope to leave a better taste in your mouth.  LOL

Kathryn

Kathryn,
I hope I didn't offend you or anyone else. I am aware that many people attend church regularly who are truly sincere. Just it has been my experience that those that are always wanting to announce it to the world seem to have something to hide or to prove. I know that not all people that are eager to talk about religion are that way. If I thought so, I would be just as closed minded as most religious zealots. I'm just saying that it sets my warning signals off.

You, dear Kathryn, seem like a very loving, sincere, and accepting religious person. I would like to find a church filled with people like you.

I hope true religious people cann't be narrow minded whatever religion they embrace.All the religions have such things common to teach their followers.

Inspirepub wrote:

Hooksey wrote:

It pains me to see so many highly religious people spew hate towards other religions and viewpoints. Isn't a main aspect of every religion having goodwill towards others. Most major religions do not condon hatred, but for some reason religious debates always spark the evil in people. For example, I just asked my girlfriend who is Catholic, what makes your religion perfect, and every other one "pointless". My question came after a comment she made about Catholism being the only religion that makes sense. How can people be so closed minded and ignorant?

Does anyone have any input? Thank you...

It's all fully explained in Becker's 1970s classic book, "The Denial of Death".

Well worth a read.

It explains the psychological processes underlying the "us and them" mentality and the apparently counterproductive desire some people have to sacrifiice their lives for a symbol like a cross or a flag - when we were supposedly trying to survive first and foremost.

I haven't read the book, but I've long had the idea that "us versus them" is at the root of most of humanity's problems.  Religion can be the worst expression of that (other ideologies not being far behind--like the need to save democracy from communism).  When Group A believes that its absolutely right, all other groups must be wrong.  Suddenly a doctrine that was based on love and redemption becomes something taught at sword point. 

It's not the religion's fault but rather the fault of *some* of its followers.  Going back to the original poster's comment about his Catholic girlfriend...nearly everything I've learned about accepting myself, faults and all, and letting others be who they are, I learned from a Catholic.  He is passionate about his faith and unbelievably conservative, yet he loves me like a daughter despite my being about as opposite as possible in religion, politics, and just about everything else.  There are way too many examples of religious extremists from the major religions.  But there are also some very kind, gentle people who follow the same faiths without turning them into something unpleasant.

Hooksey wrote:

It pains me to see so many highly religious people spew hate towards other religions and viewpoints. Isn't a main aspect of every religion having goodwill towards others. Most major religions do not condon hatred, but for some reason religious debates always spark the evil in people. For example, I just asked my girlfriend who is Catholic, what makes your religion perfect, and every other one "pointless". My question came after a comment she made about Catholism being the only religion that makes sense. How can people be so closed minded and ignorant?

Does anyone have any input? Thank you...

well first of all religion has been getting people killed for ages.. People want their god to better then other religion gods.. It all goes back to humans being ignorant and dumb...  we are a race(human) that has already proved the bible wrong! whats wrong with you all? Now ive said before if you are scared to die and want something more to ease you on your death bed, have faith... the  truth is i could pick up an iron man comic 10,000 yrs from now and say that was our god..  there is no proof of a god!  Ever!!!   only stories about a god...

   If more people cared about people  rather then the "holy" bible the world would prolly be alot better( i cant prove it)... but no one can dissprove it...

catholism makes sense???  yeah rather then you read the bible, the priest read it for you so you get his interpretation..

They celebrate christmas with gifts(btw i was raised roman catholic, and did some bible studying of my own) if they read jeremiah 10 they might have to rethink that whole holiday...

of course that is my interpretation..

just do right in your life my brother... and remember faith never hurt anybody in the end..
its good to have faith and something to look foward to in the afterlife....


just not for me.....im gonna sacrifice myself inn the end for everything  we've killed as human beings(as a whole).....

Hooksey wrote:

Mark Who???

That's funny.

I suppose he knows by now.

The reason why people become overly religious is because they are not open-minded. That's why they become fanatics.

Those religious people who don't go overboard are open-minded, though.

I consider myself a religious person. I try to lead a virtuous life, play by the rules most of the time (although I do get a fiendish delight out of challenging rules advanced by those who are somewhere to the right of Atilla the Hun) and yet I am also left of center politically. I go to church on Sunday and my kids say bedtime prayers with me.

All that said, I also have a fairly healthy amount of contempt for people who make overt displays of how much holier they are than me. You know the people I'm talking about. They're the ones who have to get down on their knees when receiving holy communion, even though NO ONE else is doing it.

I recall a scriptural reading where Jesus taught us the proper way to pray. He was quite specific that when you are fasting, do not wear long faces so people will know you are fasting, and think well of you because you are so damned holy! So in my book, the people who sit at the back of the church and follow along with the priest are every bit as holy as the people in the front row who want to make for damned sure that everyone sees them and their family up there.

Ummm, not sure how this answers original question?

Yeah, I guess I did get off the topic a bit. The point I was trying to make is that in my book, a liberal person is open-minded, whereas a conservative person tries to maintain the status quo. I'm politically liberal on most points, but I still think of myself as a religious person, so I do think it is possible to be open-minded and religious at the same time. I probably didn't come off sounding terribly tollerant after my last post. If not, excuse me. I've had kind of a long day, and I think it's time my head found a pillow.

Peace....

Jim Henry

Thanks Jim, now I see your point Does not mean I agree to it, though