College Education vs. Individual Education

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   marinealways24posted 14 years ago

   I have been called illiterate and corrected on punctuation many times. I have been told to go to college. I have been given many book suggestions by the college educated who believe I am ignorant because they have a better title than me.
   
   
   Tell me why your degree is smarter than me.
   
   I don't like to read books, so this should be a pretty simple task for the elite minded.
   
   Which is better, a college education or an individual education? Why?

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      Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I am very glad I got a college education. However, just because someone has a degree does not necessarily mean they are smarter than anyone who hasn't got one. I used to work at a university library, I have had to deal with more idiots that you can imagine The PhD students were the worst
      
      I can't understand anyone not liking to read books, but that is just me, books are my life. However, if you don't that is fine. I'm sure you have had many life experience that those who went to college don't have.

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         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I have ADD. I get bored with books easily because they take so long to read. I believe I could learn more argueing on here or researching an hour than I could reading a 3 day book. I wish everyone understood that a title isn't everything as you do. Thank You.

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            rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I guess it would depend. a degree can help you. if you have trouble with books, but would like a degree, have you thought about trying online courses? it could be the way to go for you.
            a degree doesn't mean someone is smarter, only perhaps in the way they use it once they have it. with this job market it's tough even for those with degrees.

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      ediggityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Individual education can be just as effective as formal education.  However, discipline and understanding are key to actually being able to apply the information learned.  When you individually educate yourself there may be many subjects that you can't fully grasp, because you have no teacher.  Additionally, informal education will more than likely make you a jack of all trades, and master of none.  Unless you really focus on one specific area.  I would have never been able to self educate myself with the technical classes I took, but classes like business, politics, history etc.. could have been done individually.  In the long run college just wants your $$, but it's worth it.  There are also plenty of degrees that don't require you to read copious amounts of books.  You would probably read no more than you already do on here.

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         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hello edigitty. Great points as well. When I look at some subjects on my own like math/science, they sometimes look like a foreign language. It would be more beneficial to have a teacher on some subjects for in depth learning. On the other hand, when I do learn on my own, I remember the information because I had to do all of the work myself.

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            ediggityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            This is a great point.  Math and science usually require a strong foundation of knowledge, because they build on each other in the advanced stages.  I say usually, because there are some very gifted people who don't require much guidance at all.

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      video lostposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Both are important but both lack one or another thing in them.

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         Mark Knowlesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         LOL

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      Lady_Eposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      In the UK, a University Education is much higher than a College Education.
      
      I personally think, having a degree doesn't necessarily make people smarter than those who don't have one. Infact, there are lots of successful Millionaires out there who don't have a University degree, but really have their heads screwed on well.
      
      Having said that, its important that everyone has a basic education. i.e the basics of maths and english.  A report/study was produced recently in the UK and it showed that some Adults could not read or write. A literacy problem - the government is currently assisting with the issue.

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         A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         "A report was produced recently in the UK and it showed that some Adults could not read or write. A literacy problem"
         
         Uhhhh, was a study done also?

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            Lady_Eposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Cheers Texan

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               A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I mean they could have just asked me, I would have told them there were illiterate people in the world. I would have done it for free.

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                  Lady_Eposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You have a good heart Texan...

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                     A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     I am a good guy, thanks for noticing.

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I am not college educated for financial reasons but I do read a lot and pay attention to current events.  I do believe you can be exposed to a great many different ideas and opinions by going to college.  Do I think a college education is better?  I believe it lies with the individual and their enthusiasm.

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      ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If you're going to college you're probably better off getting a liberal arts degree.  Then you're exposed to a wide variety of subjects which you can then choose to educate yourself more about.  Unfortunately our colleges and universities are ridden with closet communists so rather than teach in an objective manner, they slant things to their own political ends.  We may want to rethink the whole tenure thing.
      
      To answer your question explicitly, both are essential.  College for the foundation and individual education to find the truth of things.

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         Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Yeah, those theology phd's and priests were a real hotbed of communism...
         
         Do you have a source for that?

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            Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            He-he, good shot Susan

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            ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Sure, even theology Ph.D.'s have their pet Communist projects:
            
            http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberation_theology
            
            Banning legos because it teaches the evils of private property:
            
            http://www.rethinkingschools.org/archiv … o212.shtml
            
            You're right, that's a daycare and not a school, but wait:
            
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Clq-HDIDipg
            
            People talk back:
            
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DYoE8DfBEQI
            
            For a scholarly treatment:
            
            http://ase.tufts.edu/polsci/faculty/por … Lownds.pdf
            
            What I found interesting bout that paper was the author's obvious distaste for his findings, but to his credit he reported them fairly.  One thing I don't agree with is his take on the environment.  It's not the environment, but the lack of questioning that is the problem.  I do like how he talked about one weakness of his argument being that the questions dealt with self prescribed orientation, not concrete orientation.  People saying what they are rather than doing what they are, in other words.
            
            Finally, another scholarly source, on that has it's antecedents in pre-1960's time:
            
            http://www.heritage.org/dataconvert/pdf/hl0277.pdf

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      elliot.dunnposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      i'm currently working on get a BA in English Literature. i was reading some of the autobiography of Benjamin Franklin.  he did a lot of work in establishing libraries in pre-Revolutionary america. he, ever the scientist, found that the more people read, the greater educated they were so that even the poorest through books could rival the intellect of the elite.
      
      one of the smartest people i know never finished his degree so i don't think that you to have a degree to be educated. but you definitely have to read...

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         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         
         Hello Elliot. I do agree with reading, simply not long books that takes me days or weeks to read. I believe it is a much wider range of learning when you can get various thoughts on a subject compared to just 1 thought of the book writer. I do agree that all reading contributes to learning.

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      prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Theories you learned from college education or from books is valuable. Theories can be can be verified by lifes experiences.Sometimes we need to read books so that we can still widen our horizon and enrich knowledge. It doesnt mean thogh that you are ignorant etc.if you didnt go to collge or dont want to read any books. Our society just place a high regard to those who are college educated and those who read books.....

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         prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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      LiamBeanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      First, do not confuse ignorance with stupidity. They are not the same thing. Ignorance is a lack of knowledge. Stupidity is the inability to learn. They are vastly different things.
      
      That you've been offered books indicates that those that offered them do not think you are stupid. If they thought that a book would be pointless. In a way it's a complement.
      
      As to punctuation, this is a problem for even the most literate. Some authors I know of completely avoid some sentence structures simply so they do not have to worry about "proper" punctuation.
      
      So you don't like to read books. I cannot relate that that. I've loved to read as long as I can remember.
      
      It is an acquired skill though.
      
      But to answer your question they (a college or individual education) are equally important. And in a way, even the college educated are self-educated. It's entirely possible to sit in class and not learn one thing.

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         marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Hello Liam. You gave me a great perspective to look at rather than seeing it as an insult about the book suggestions. Thanks for adding.

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            prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            it really depends on you, if you want  a career which is based on college degree (diploma),then go for it....but if you want something else whcich doesnt require college degree then just go on....
            
            wrong punctuation or if you lack time to read books etc...are not the basis of how knowledgeable you are....
            
            usually experiential things complemented by a theory is good,,,,but experience is still the best teacher...

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               marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I agree. Experience is the best teacher, however that is flawed as well. I'm sure you and I have met numerous older people that believed their experience has served them well. Needless to say, this is not always true. Some rely on experience when they have no experience. Some can rely on experience their entire lives never understanding self-awareness.

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                  prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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       korirkoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       First what is individual education?Is it some you learn from others,from life experience or from the few years of school.For me i think they are both equal to the fact that they both apply to 2 different aspect of the individual.

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes, both are individual learning when you pick the question apart. Both take self motivation. I guess I am referring to individual learning as self-teaching and college education as being taught.

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       Mike Dennisposted 14 years agoin reply to this

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       positivtinkinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       leaning becomes fun if it has no condition attarched to it. what you learn on your own makes you unique when you stand out to speak or address people.

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       positivtinkinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       leaning becomes fun if it has no condition attarched to it. what you learn on your own makes you unique when you stand out to speak or address people.

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       dahoglundposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       It does depend on the individual. I got a degree that I am proud of but it probably never did me any practical good. On the other hand, I have a son who dropped out after a few months ane he is able to do all sorts of things that I can't do.

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   For me I did go to college, partialy because I wanted to and partialy because my parents wanted me to.
   
   But truthfully college isn't for everyone. My brother is now going to college which I am so happy for because he was tired of the jobs he kep getting and was very intersted in getting a job as a massage therapist.
   
   But again college isn't for everyone. I say that it depeends on the individual which is better. So if you don't want to read or go to college then Marine that is up to you hun. for yuo Individual education is best for you. Don't listen to others, Marine listen to YOURSELF!
   
   And I hope I wasn't one of the ones who corrected you. was I?

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Nope you wasn't the one. I'm not going to college. lol
      I support anyone that betters their learning. I just want to make a point that degrees are only titles. I want the college educated to tell me I am ignorant and why so I can prove them wrong. I think more can be learned on the internet than can be learned in college.

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         Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         And it's not as boring as it would be sitting in a classroom and having to TALK in front of people. *gasp* so hated that..that is why I want to take ONLINE classes LMAO

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   thranaxposted 14 years ago

   The world revolves around credentials and discrimination, apparent or not, which means in society a college education is better. To an individual or someone who needs something done, a personal education could be sufficient if thrown under the right circumstances.
   
   ~thranax~

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is the problem. Everyone thinks in money and titles. The better the title, usually the more money.

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         thranaxposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Ah, but how does that point of view confront being over qualified? If everyone wants people to work for them that are "Superior" to the others, then why does over-qualification occur? Its not a one way viewpoint. If your smart, really smart and don't have a title or paper to prove it, then the only way to prove it is to DO IT. Think of the top bloggers with no college or anything, just an idea and they did it. Now there top experts for some reason..go figure.
         
         ~thranax~

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            marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Great points you made. I think the term over-qualified is just an out for employers to say they don't want to pay what the applicant will probably expect in salary. Also if a manager is scared the "over-qualified" employee will take his job. A simple out not to hire the person.

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   Oh and I forgot to add I do want to go back to school not necessarily for a degree if I can get one that's fine but mostly I want to go back to strengthen myself and my writing skills and craft.
   
   lol UW I had to laugh at your comment about PhD students being the wrose...wish I could have seen that.

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   Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

   I am also glad I went to college because I had a terrible time at high school and dropped out after grade 10. I took my college prep course and ended up graduating from college with honours. I definitely flourished in college so it was the right thing for me.

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I'm glad you accomplished furthering yourself. I always get sleepy when I sit in a classroom. lol

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         Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Try studying library science

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            marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ah, makes me sleepy just reading it on here without the classroom. lol

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   zadrobiposted 14 years ago

   The two dumbest people I've ever met were the valedictorians of their class. Obtaining a college degree doesn't change who you are, just what you know. I know a lot about anatomy because I'm studying to go into medicine but that doesn't make me smarter than anyone, just more knowledgable on the subject.

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Excellent to hear. You sound smart to me if that means anything. Being humble is a huge step. I think you have that one down. Much luck to you.
      
      
      This thread was supposed to be for the arrogant! You guy's are too humble. lol

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      prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      it doesnt matter if you are college educated or you just self study. Being smart and knowledgeable are quite different things,(but you can be both), even if you dont go to college. Getting college education is important for those who choose to specialize and if you want a job which requires a degree, otherwise you can enjoy what you choose to do

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   Colebabieposted 14 years ago

   I think both are important depending on the person. I love going to college and think I'm a better person because of my experience. But I have met people that are knowledgeable and amazing that never attended college (or graduated high school).

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank You for adding Cole. Great thoughts. I agree with anyone that furthers themselves and doesn't get wrapped up in the arrogance of titles.

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         Colebabieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I've learned so much the past four years. Most of it not in the classroom.

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   Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

   ooops lol sorry marine...we can TRY to be arragont but it'll be hard for me to pretend that lmao

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Ah, it's alright. You be nice and let the arrogant be arrogant. I like you the way you are.

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         Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thank you Oh if you hadn't noticed I changed my picture because someone said that the other one was distracting with the kitchen stuff behind it lol so I changed to this one.

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   Star Witnessposted 14 years ago

   Let's face it, there are idiots in academia, just as there are idiots outside the ivory tower.  I don't think this is asking the right question, personally.  EDUCATION isn't what is important, learning and being interested in learning, culture, and experiences, and being able to use that knowledge and those abilities IS.
   
   This sort of learning can come through a college education, certainly, but learning on your own through different avenues is just as important.  Eventually, everyone has to...those with initiative towards anything are the ones who are successful (what ever success means to you).
   
   I would not trade what I learned from formal schooling--OR what I learned on my own for the world.  Both have value...  That being said, for a number of other reasons beyond pure learning (career issues), obtaining a college degree is a good idea.

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      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Great thoughts you added as well. I don't really have anything to disagree with. I also believe learning mostly comes from self motivation. It takes motivation for both college and individual learning.

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    Aquaposted 14 years ago

    I went to college right after high school. Unfortunately, I wasn't ready and it showed in my attendance and grades. I dropped out, joined the workforce and had a pretty good career as a paralegal and in human resources. However, now I have decided to return to college to finish my degree. I'm finally at a place where I *want* to be there. Also, like it or not, you *will* be judged by others on your educational level - especially in certain professions. I know that I was passed up for promotions because I did not have a degree. I got tired of being chronically "underemployed" so going back to school made sense for me. The irony is that now I'm at a point in life where I'm not too worried about a "career". I'm returning to school because I genuinely want to be there.
    
    Also, I agree with some of the comments here. Some of the most educated people I know, completely lack common sense. I think you need to have both common sense and a good education. That being said, I also agree that college is not a good fit for everyone.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Great thoughts and points you added. I agree with you, me/others will/are judged on our title. This is what our society teaches. The bigger/better the title, usually the bigger/better the paycheck. Almost like the main motivation is to get a bigger title and paycheck. Is this what society breeds? I have a lot of respect for your motivation to continually further yourself. Thank You for adding.

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    marinealways24posted 14 years ago

    Thanks to all. I will catch up to the comments tomorrow. GN

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    Colebabieposted 14 years ago

    Good night!

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    Crazdwriterposted 14 years ago

    good night marine was fun chatting with you today!

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    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    In my experience I found that people having post-grad education ON AVERAGE have wider knowledge, better understanding of how things work, and more open mind.
    
    That said, I met a few people without even high school who beat the majority of post grads on all accounts.

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       Star Witnessposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You, a proponent of post graduate education, Misha?  How shocking, from what I've seen on this forum.

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          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I think you misinterpreted me. I never said I am against formal education per se. However I am against everything 1. mandatory and 2. government run. Which essentially puts government run and regulated education into the group of things I am against.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hello, Good to see you Misha. Thanks for adding.

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    Kaabiposted 14 years ago

    I think that college opens a lot of doors, but in reality, there are a lot of people out there without degrees who could be doing jobs better than those with degrees, but they just can't get the job because they do not have the degree.

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    A Texanposted 14 years ago

    I've been to a College football game, does that count?

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    emievilposted 14 years ago

    Personally, I would have wanted to have more of the latter and less of the former. Unfortunately, I think we place too much emphasis on degrees here. A college education here is fine if you want to get in a job but in the long run...experience and street-smarts will really spell the difference between success and failure. Just my 2-cents worth

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    Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

    I learned from the school of hard knocks
    
    Like Marine, I have ADD and in the 60's and 70's it wasn't identified yet - I was just a dumb kid who couldn't get all the multiplication facts right, and math is no easier now.  Reading, however, was my escape.  It took me out of the world I lived.  I also wrote a lot, my way
    
    I did do better in college, but due to financial situations and later in life, babies, I never finished, but I flourished in the English and Journalism classes I took.
    
    I am a common sense person, always have been, always will be and it simply works for me. I think it was one gift I was born with.
    
    Do I ever feel dumb, absolutely.  When I use to go to business functions with my husband, most of the wives worked outside the home and many were/are politically active, I didn't have much to talk about with them then or now.
    
    I'm proud my daughter and son have my husbands intellectual genes.

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    Uninvited Writerposted 14 years ago

    Well, what I found that when I studied in college and when I took a few courses at University that it taught me to think for myself, regardless of what the teachers/professors personally believed.

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       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       So true !
       you don't find the truth in college, you find it in life.College is not essential for the foundation and individual education to find the truth of things.   Your experience does that.
       College teaches you, whatever you choose to learn. Professors and teachers are human beings with their own personal beliefs, just like you.

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       Crazdwriterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Ain't that the truth...funny thing was all the professors and teachers liked me even though they showed that they didn't really like others lol I wasn't a butt kisser either hehehe

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       Aquaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       One of the great things about college is that it teaches critical thinking skills. What a concept!

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       rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I so agree with you. critical thinking was not taught K-12, it wasn't until I entered college that I started truly thinking and dissecting information on my own. I didn't have to believe it because it was being taught, the way it was presented gave us freedom to find out for ourselves or ponder on subjects that were closed tightly before. of course, there's subjects like math that are basically black and white, it either works or it doesn't but there are different ways to get to the correct answer.
       
       where does it say anywhere in life that we have to believe something because it's taught? that's why there's so many brainwashed adults and children walking the earth.

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          rebekahELLEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          oops, please excuse my grammatical errors... 'there are not there's'   

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       ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Likewise, but you have to admit, we are both strong willed people and there are plenty of people out there who just go along to get along.  That's the problem. 
       
       Hell one of my favorite teachers was a liberal, but she was very good at accommodating others' viewpoints and taking advantage of what they brought to the table.  Which was a great example to us of keeping an open mind because you never know where good ideas may come from.

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          Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          True. I also entered college when I was in my almost mid 20's, I had worked a little before then. I'm sure that helped that I didn't go right from high school.

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             ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             My sister is 10 years younger than I and went to college straight out of high school.  I went the community college to university route, which helped me I think, but she went straight into university.  Her teachers pounded liberal ideology into her and her classmates' heads, even when the subject was nothing related to that ideology. 
             
             Why, for example, does a theatre teacher have to expound on the legality of the Iraq war during his instruction time?  Shouldn't that be covered in a current events, political science or history class?  I don't know how the left works where you live, but in the US, they attempt to use intimidation, lies and spin to shout down those who have differing viewpoints. 
             
             Look at Rush and the NFL thing.  It's a disgrace that something like that can happen in contemporary America.  I don't particularly like Rush, but he has the right to buy whatever they hell he wants to, so long as it's legal.  That's how the radical Left plays ball and that's not how we are supposed to do things in the US.

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                Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Come on, you know radicals on both sides do that. And the Rush thing I think is ridiculous. If he has the money he can buy whatever he wants.

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                   Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Actually he can't. The other NFL owners can veto him. ... Sports leagues act under special legislation in the US that exempts them from anti-trust legislation. Now do I have to drag you out of here. Don't make me come to Kitchner young lady....

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                      Uninvited Writerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Ahem...this is not the politics or the religion forum

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                         Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Oh, it just feels like it. You guys can turn anything into a liberal vs. conservative debate. The guy just wants to know if he should go to college or not! Well have a good time. I've got yoga class and a meditation lesson waiting for me.

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                            ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Libertarian vs collectivist, thank you very  much. 
                            
                            I think we both answered his question, I know I did.  OK, find.  OP when deciding to go to school, just keep in mind Carl Sagan's Baloney Detection Kit, especially the parts about finding independent sources for information and arguments from "authority" carrying little weight:
                            
                            http://www.heritage.org/dataconvert/pdf/hl0277.pdf

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                   ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Apparently you can't buy an NFL team.  Just because radicals on both sides do it, that doesn't make it right.

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                marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Another problem with having one teacher for a subject. Compare a classroom to hubpages forum. You can speak with and debate many college educated on any given study and get multiple ideas compared to 1 teachers idea in the classroom.

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                marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I'm glad you mentioned Limbaugh. I drive a lot during the day for my job and tune into conservative radio at times. I will give Limbaugh credit for inspiring individual thought. Whether you agree or disagree, he inspires you to think. Where he is confused is that he believes he is an individual when he follows a group religious belief. That is a whole different thread. Where Limbaugh is wrong is that he creates separatism with his ideas, he dosn't have self awareness to understand using them to form unity. Also to his credit, he has little to no college education and he is a multi-millionaire if not billionaire with millions of followers who think he is a genius messiah. Granted, he comes from a wealthy well educated family of lawyers, so he wasn't exactly screwed from the beginning as he would like some to believe.

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                   ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   How can you be an individualist and support unity?  I'm an individualist.  If someone wants to believe something, great.  What they think doesn't impact me until and unless they try to force their point of view, way of life, what have you on me.  I don't see Rush as doing that. 
                   
                   I'm curious as to how you'd react to something that happened in Washington:  http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/co … 01808.html
                   
                   So who is more of a danger to society.  Rush, who runs a talk show, or what I like to call eco-terrorists who destroy people's property, drive spikes into trees to kill loggers and try to blow up power lines.  Sure, Rush is religious but he doesn't try to burn people at the stake or send atheists to reeducation camps, he just wants to be able to express his beliefs in public without being looked upon like a freak.  While I don't share many of his beliefs, he should be free to express himself as he sees fit, he's not hurting anyone, not like the eco-terrorists.
                   
                   Heh, the Limbaugh group is a pretty big law firm around here.  Sure he had help, but isn't that the sort of thing we want for our kids.  Would you use any wealth you managed to accumulate during your lifetime to help you kids get a start in life?

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                      marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      ledefense, from your comments, I get the feeling you believe I have a liberal philosophy. You couldn't be more far off. lol
                      
                      When you ask who is a danger to our society noting his as just a "talk show host", I believe this understates Limbaugh's power. Limbaugh has millions of dedicated listeners and followers that would go to war for him. He knows this. He understands how to play off of his followers emotions. I believe he abuses this power.
                      
                      
                      If he is an individualist, how have a grouped religious belief? A grouped belief contradicts being an individual. Yet, he is an acclaimed individual that runs "conservative studies" education which is a grouped belief.
                      
                      If you are thinking i'm dogging rush to protect Obama, again, far off. I disagree with all politicians. All are corrupt and overpaid. When money is the main motivation for politics, it only breeds corruption. The politicians as always are about the dollar, not the people.
                      
                      I'm not knocking him for having a wealthy family. I'm knocking him for downplaying he has a wealthy family. I have heard him say he comes from nothing many times. A rich family is far from nothing.
                      
                      
                      As far as Limbaugh saying "God" so much in his speaking, I think uses this to capture his followers. Most are emotionally tied into God, what better way to get follwers behind you than to constantly quote God?  I wouldn't be surprised if Limbaugh completely disagrees with the bible and simply quotes God to capture followers.

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          prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Yes youre definitely correct on that, every idea is worthy, it is up to the person to try to come up with what is the best idea, at best everybody learn something from a comment out here and there...

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             ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             No, you misunderstand.  Every idea is not worthy.  What I meant was that you should not ignore good ideas just because of the source of those ideas.  That's not quite the same thing as saying every idea is worthy.  Some ideas, quite frankly, are insane.

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                Aya Katzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Ledefensetech, good answer!

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                Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Come on, LDT, you know that everything you read on the internet is true

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                   ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Especially the things that contradict each other, I know. 

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                      Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      Especially those!
                      
                      Back on topic - I enjoyed college/university and learned many things. I am still learning, many years later, through practical experience.
                      
                      On the other side of the coin, my best friend is a builder and is one of the finest philosophers you could hope to meet.
                      
                      I guess that it is whatever suits - as long as you strive to learn, rather than watch 24/7 reality TV, then all is well with the world
                      
                      LDT: Carl Sagan - sadly missed. I use the baloney detection kit on a daily basis!

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                         ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         I like to use Sagan as an example of someone who epitomized the phrase "Do as I say and not as I do".  It's interesting to note he used his "authority" to convince people of the validity of nuclear winter, knowing full well his methods were flawed.  Instead he argued that the dire threat posed by global thermonuclear war was such that he was justified in compromising his scientific integrity.  I disagree with that idea.  There were ways to portray the aftermath of a nuclear war that would have dwarfed anything Sagan came up with.  After a nuclear war, I'm not sure who'd I'd envy more, the living or the dead.

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                            Sufidreamerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            Not sure what you are saying, LDT - I read that paper many years ago, and have just refreshed my memory. The paper was perfectly reasonable and followed the scientific method - it used the limited information available at the time concerning atmospheric science.
                            
                            Sadly, much of the criticism leveled at the research group was way off base - attacking the theory without offering any alternative. There is a whole background to that particular story, much more than meets the eye - for some scientific disciplines, politics is an inherent part of the process, for better or for worse. As for your last point - there were lots of films depicting the potential effects of nuclear war, so I am not sure what you are trying to get at
                            
                            In addition, you have taken this one small point and concentrated upon it - you should read about his efforts to bring science and religion together and stop the antagonism. In light of the current divisive debates, he is sorely missed

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                marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Everyone has a different idea of insane. What sounds insane to you might not sound insane to me. So if you decided something sounded insane to you, would it be unworthy for someone else to hear? If Limbaugh sounded logical to you and insane to me, should I not listen to him? A proven that everyone's word is worthy, insane or sane.

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Excellent thought and point as usual. To make a generalization, I believe our society places ridiculous faith and importance on a persons title and salary in confusion of knowledge.

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             Paradise7posted 14 years agoin reply to this

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                marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Thank You Paradise. I appreciate that. I always enjoy a 3rd person perspective in learning self awareness. Great thoughts you added of how some use titles to do their fighting.

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          marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Another good point as usual. But, what does our society teach? To listen to everyone, or to take someone word as more credible based on their title and salary? Would the average person in our society believe me "Trailor park educated", or Obama, "The messiah Harvard president"? Everyone knows the answer. This is what society teaches. Society view overall is based on titles and public speaking, this is why Obama is president.

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    ixwaposted 14 years ago

    In life, before we go to college, we acquire vast experiences and knowledge flung our way. College is within the same knowledge/life stream. We enter into the river of life's flow, then we get to learn street smartness and life's hard knocks and lessons. Whenever we chose to go into college, we are not empty cans that need to be filled, we flow with life's academic sphere in the river of life. This then is like jumping into the river of life, turning around, going against the current, and meanwhile collecting all you can handle and then you can off ramp where time alloted is delineated. You come from life, go into a classroom with the experience of life you have garnered up to the point you enter the classroom. It is in the classroom room where you can compare and contrast and upgrade some things you have learnt in life, and add on the new ones you get in the classroom. Critical thinking, from life experiences, is the handmaiden of enlightenment, soaked in from learning..

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    ixwaposted 14 years ago

    A lot of people have been educated into ignorance. Ignorance is not an excuse in this country. Anyway, some people are made stupid by education, and others end-up not being able to think without being one-dimensional. Education is Freedom.

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    Mike Dennisposted 14 years ago

    Hello my friend,
    
    EDUCATION is very individualized.   Formal.  Etc.  Depends on what you are looking for and what approach you are taking.
    
    You, are so BRIGHT and SMART that FORMAL EDUCATION may HAVE nothing to offer you.
    
    You may  BEYOND IT.
    
    You probably are.
    
    Keep sharing your hubs/articles and thoughts.  I LOVE THEM.
    
    MIchael
    
    with many formal degrees BUT KNOW THAT MANY PH.D  PHONEMENA DUMBELLS encircle the planet.

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thank You Mike! I appreciate that, very encouraging. From seeing your profile, I don't think they come any more motivated as yourself. I'm not sure why, but I am bored with things we already know about ourselves and our education. I am more entertained with the unknowns. I guess this would be considered philosophy in college? I also enjoy picking apart the mind. These things aren't getting me paid without a degree, however i'm not content with knowing nothing. What are your thoughts on individual knowledge of psycology. I believe much if not more can be learned in the psycology field simply by analyzing individual thought. I also like to run experiments when I meet people online/in person to see the different reactions to analyze how they work. Do you think the psycology field can be understood by analyzing thought, with no formal college?

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    prziloczekposted 14 years ago

    College?
    Why go?
    You end up in debt. Even with an MA, you are probably in the dole queue in England or, even if you do get a job, your immediate boss will be someone who left school at the age of 16. I am afraid that Philosophy/Tudor History/ French Literature of the early Renaissance is not that appreciated in hamburger flipping. In the UK there are a LOT more trainee hairdressers than there are hairs.
    Better to carve out a career at 16.
    If you want to be a professional, though, you have to go to College. You won't earn much, but you could have a nice life.
    Otherwise - go for it and try and get to the top of your trade by 30 years old!

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       
       
       Hello prziloczek. This is one of my main disagreements for going to college. I think motivation for learning should be learning. Not a title, paycheck, and "nice life". I do agree though, a better title and paycheck does usually = a nicer/easier life.

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    zadrobiposted 14 years ago

    You can get a lot out of college, especially if you go to one as big as mine-- 30,000 plus. But this isn't about the "college experience" so I'm trying hard not to digress-- forgive me.
    
    College in my opinion is the same as working out. You want to be fit and look good, but it's hard to be motivated to go to the gym every week, at least 3-4 times. If you have a trainer or friends that you meet with at certain times during the week then you have extra motivation and support to get you in shape.
    Bare with me..
    
    A college degree is the same way. You want to learn and be more knowledgable but it's hard to give so much effort when you don't have to. So, in theory, teachers are the friends that help us toward our goals and force us to give the effort that we wouldn't have been motivated to without the classroom setting and the grades that we need to maintain.
    
    I read A LOT and always am learning something new in my spare time, but I would never have come anywhere close to where I am today--- would never have learned Spanish, etc., without being forced to use at least some of my potential.
    A college is an EXPENSIVE motivator that helps kick you in the pants to learn and strive toward what you want to be and do (at least for me).

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hello great points Zad. A question to add. What if you learned how to be the trainer yourself? Would you still need a trainer?

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          zadrobiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Sorry I forgot to quote

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    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    Hi marine !

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       marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Hello tantrum! Causing any chaos today? lol

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          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Well this is me. if that is not enough chaos

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             marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

             The picture is you? I thought you were a man? You never cause too much chaos. Just enough.

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                tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Yes I opened a post in hangout : introducing myself. Go and check

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                   marinealways24posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   I did. I called you a tricky devil. lol

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                      prettydarkhorseposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      i think i lost my reply to you while ago marine, i just thought that in terms of experience, it really is helpful (in terms of decisions pertaining to values etc),
                      
                      in an academic setting all they do is trying to debunk the latest accepted theory and they will put forward a new one, a new knowledge sis created...
                      
                      apply theory to experience plus ask some advice from elders, thats the best way to learn.....

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    zadrobiposted 14 years ago

    There are many people capable of teaching themselves... I've taught myself a lot of things: guitar, writing skills, morals, etymology, music theory, fitness, history...
    
    I would never disagree that people are capable of teaching themselves matters of academia and necessity.. I am meaning to agree with you wholeheartedly.
    I think that most of the time what it boils down to is motivation instead of ability.
    
    If I dropped out of school and taught myself everything... went and took the MCAT(medical college admission test) and did well on it... then it might change someones opinion... but one thing school does is take everything you need to know and organizes it. I would have trouble just figuring out what I needed to learn, let alone learn it all on top of that effort.
    
    A degree says that you've been taught everything that you will need to know for a certain profession and makes it easy for people to know what you will know and what you won't... but there are also tests for that too... like the MCAT, the BAR, etc. So, in theory, you CAN skip school and the degree and succeed in todays world if you just pass the accreditation exams.

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       repstrydieflyposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I agree with you completely, you have to have motivation for self-learning and College. College goes more into detail with what they teach, and if you pay attention well enough you could easily teach that class when you are done. But it also could insert too much information into your mind to where you forget about the main points. While self-learning is where you can open your mind to many different things at once, and receive the main points out of everything you learned, and maybe be able to tie them all together to find out other things. You can also just focus on your main interests, and in College you get a lot of unwanted information. A plus about College is that it will give you a degree that will take you far in life, but the downfall is you have to spend 4 years of you life just to be a master in just one position.
       
       So, all in all, it really just depends on what you are trying to do with your life.

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    Aya Katzposted 14 years ago

    External pressure may get you to study, but it takes internal motivation to actually learn.

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    zadrobiposted 14 years ago

    That's what I just said...

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    torimariposted 14 years ago

    I have my degree in English BA, and though I'm sure I may have read many classics, analyzed and appreciated books some would just read and be done with...really, my experience in life has made me smarter than my education.
    
    My education has given me other skills, but my dad didn't go to college and makes good money as a computer technician. We live in a nice neighborhood and a lot of people own their own companies, and never went to college.
    
    Yes, my degree and education may help me out in many things and open doors. I didn't go four years for nothing, but it doesn't give me an ego. I think individual is just as important...I have plenty to learn.
    
    I am rightfully proud of my degree, but that is because I worked so hard for it. That's not to say, people haven't worked hard educating their selves in whatever they do in life.

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    Sexy jontyposted 14 years ago

    Both the education are important ......
    college education provide you with degree which is proof of your education taken.
    
    Whereas individual education is one which provide us with the real world experiences .....

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