US people will be poorer soon...

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   Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

   The world has enough food to feed everyone...
   
   We ,me ,you ,them , why we just dont wanna share

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      free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      If all the money in the world is divided among all the people in the world.... would that solve the problem of poverty ?

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         nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Obviously not. It would just create runaway inflation.

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            free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            True..... Rich and poor are always going to be there !

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   Rhianni32posted 14 years ago

   I work in a call center in the quality control department. I get paid $17.50/hr. My counterparts in India doing on phone work get paid $2.50/hr. They can hire 4 people and a manager to oversee them and still save more money then me.
   
   Whats worse is that we are still consuming and buying those items made overseas but we are not returning the money into our own system. Instead of buying an American made shoe that pays for an American factory that gives American's jobs it goes overseas. What goes around comes around and those American factory workers now are unable to buy the product others make or the service others offer and now suffer more are at risk.
   
   Dividends are great. I love em and invest heavily myself in DRIP companies. But how does £2646 pay the mortgage and grocery bills? How can you buy more shares when your job is shipped overseas and you have to take a lower paying job... or go back to college to learn a new skillset.
   
   Please note I am not anti foreign or anti immigrant. The outsourced workers in other countries have families to support too. It would be silly for them to pass up a job.

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      free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thats what I meant...

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   Virgomanposted 14 years ago

   US is very Strong Country . USA Future is look like Secure

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      ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you for your incredible insight, you should write a hub about it.

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         Leta Sposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Pretty much sums up the argument from a certain contingent, Ryan.
         
         lololololo

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      rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Pretty profound claims, care to elaborate?

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      free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      You look great..... You sound very much Engrish !

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   pgrundyposted 14 years ago

   Actually the middle class is shrinking and people who make less than $100K per year are more likely at this point to experience downward mobility.
   
   As of the latest U.S. census info available, only 18% of all households in the U.S. earned (what is considered to be) a middle class income of $50K-$75K per year. The median income fell to $50K in 2008--down $2,000 in just that one year, and has been stagnant for the ten preceding years. Meanwhile, the percentage of people statistically earning a 'middle class wage' has shrunk.
   
   Over 50% of households earn less than $50K per year and the number of people living at the poverty level in the U.S. saw its greatest increase in decades this year.
   
   It's nice to keep repeating these myths about upward mobility and the rich, but there's little evidence any of them are true.

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      nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      There's an old saying: figures lie and liars figure. The feds have a vested interest in raising the poverty level. Income earned by a household is a red herring for obvious reasons that I trust will you will expand upon in your next post.
      
      Income is stagnant because taxes skyrocket and unfunded mandates cripple state governments, forcing them to increase taxes and fees to maintain current service levels. Government payrolls have increased dramatically in the past 10 years, as I'm sure you know.

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      free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I could not ever agree better !

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         rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Boy the truth hurts doesn't it.  The short term thinking of American business is setting itself up for a big fall. 
         When they get the prices down to a point that totally brings in the greatest profits imagnible there will be nobody able to buy it left.
         This whole thing reminds me of the fairy tale about the Emporers New Clothes. All the people went along with the story because of the hope of favor with the higher ups and fear of exposing his folly would cause something bad to happen.  Well I guess the time is now to tell the truth and try to fix it.

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            Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Oh please. It's not only American businesses that can be accused of short-term thinking.  We have engaged in it as well. We are the people who don't save much remember? We all thought that the good times were going to continue, why else do we buy on credit and houses with mortgages that we can't afford. We all buy on sale and the cheaper the better.  If we paid a living wage instead of buying from the Chinese, we wouldn't have been able to afford the stuff that we did.  If we're going to point fingers, let's not forget our own responsibility in all this.

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               nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               If you don't earn a living wage, work more hours. It's not the government's fault.

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                  Aya Katzposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  You don't have to work more. You could just spend less.

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                  rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Ah yes the American Dream if youcan't earn a living wage the way the economy is set up work more hours.  It's good to be king!

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               rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I agree with you about the American consumer being just as much a short term thinker as business.  But the rush to send the jobs overseas was like cutting their noses off despite their face.  If you take the jobs away and leave a service oriented job base that pays much less than a skilled labor job who will be left to buy the goods being offered.  Kind of like a chicken and the egg scenario.
               
               Another thing you have to consider is that to save money you have to have something left over to save.  Have you checked the cost of energy lately and the produce which is transported by fuel burning and harvesting machinery?
               The housing industry is in the dumps and how long has the war cry for affordable housing been mentioned?
               Will you begin paying up to three to four times the price for an American made product over a Chinese one?
               
               Your point of living according to our means is a good one but how much lower do you suggest it should get before we are living like the slaves we employ in China to make our goods?

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                  Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  That is a copout. I know it's a copout because we all have a lot of stuff and most of it is not necessary for living.  Everyone mostly eats out and no one bakes or cooks at home.  If you looked at your budget there are things you can cut.  If your mortgage or rent is too high then you shouldn't be living there because you can't afford it.  If you like living there and want to keep living there then you made your choice to work more hours or get another person to split the bills with you.

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                     rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Well you are certainly entitled to your opinion. I am glad you have a lot of stuff and I am glad you don't have to sell it to survive. I think you have some type of personal experience with regards to this either through friends or observations which may not be fully realized.  Taken the current situation as an example there are more resturants and entertainment businesses going out of business due to exactly what you suggest.  People are eating out less and going to fewer movies and vacationing less.  Yet there is more unemployment and foreclosures happening everyday.  No one is hiring even at jobs that anyone could get in the past.

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                        Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        Precisely, which is why when things are good you should still be spending less than you're earning.  Our parents knew what they were talking about when they say to save for a rainy day. The good times just as the bad times will come back.  There's an ebb and flow to things.

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                           rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           I do understand the saving concept, believe me I do.  But that is not the topic and I do believe saving more than you earn even with a lousy job is still going to make you poorer as the topic states.

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                              Flightkeeperposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              So are you saying that the US will be poorer permanently? Because I don't believe that. I see this whole thing in the economy as one big massive correction.

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                                 rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 I don't know about permanently but there are indicators with the loss of jobs and switching of the dollar to the euro to trade with we are in for some tough times.  Anything can happen and yes tighten your belts but this is going to be a wild ride and I don't know what we can do to stop it.
                                 
                                 Wars have worked in the past maybe some more war will help us out of it again.  Nothing like a good war to bring prosperity. Of course I jest.

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                                 Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 It will not be a short term project. Obama has plenty of time to screw ting up further with his advisors help. The second and third tier advisors are now being found out, so much for transparency. Most are Communist's and Marxist's. Not my words, theirs. Just like Van Jones.
                                 
                                 These people advise our fearless leader leading us farter away from recovery.

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                                 Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                 It will not be a short term project. Obama has plenty of time to screw ting up further with his advisors help. The second and third tier advisors are now being found out, so much for transparency. Most are Communist's and Marxist's. Not my words, theirs. Just like Van Jones.
                                 
                                 These people advise our fearless leader leading us farter away from recovery.

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                                    rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                                    Harvey I am being sincere as I ask this but what would you suggest he do.  I know that thw people surrounding him should go but what specifically would you suggest?

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                           Harvey Stelmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           What, a person with common sense! From your pic, I'm old enough to be your dad or your.............. Man I'm old! When did people stop saving money for the future, why did running up credit cards be the way to live and what could anyone possibly be thinking by putting under 5% down on a house? I used to think we Americans were smart.

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               free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It is really interesting note that when something good is referred people wants to be known by their country...... but when something is wrong, people blame govt., the rich, the poor, outsourcing.... this and that... and they themselves don't want to associate themselves with that country !
               
               If people accept achievements of their country... then they should accept the failures also...
               
               Everybody wants a share of success, but nobody wants to take the share of blame !

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               ledefensetechposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It's actually the system.  Inflation penalizes people for saving and rewards them for spending.  If you want to encourage saving and a sustainable recovery, you need to get rid of inflation.  People bought things with credit because they certainly weren't making any more money than their parents and grandparents.  In fact, real wages have been in decline for decades now.  We've just gotten to the point where we can no longer afford to get any more debt.  Now we have a choice.  Admit Keynes was wrong and get rid of our central bank, or go totally Communist, which we all know is a failure.

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   rhamsonposted 14 years ago

   nicomp do you have any actual experience at this or are you just passing on the propoganda you have been made to swallow by your compatriots?
   
   Have you ever ben involved in buying a business or licsensing a product? The experience may raise your understanding of the amount of power and influence these big business buddies and entrepenuers wield.

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      nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I've been self-employed for 20 years. I call on customers, bid on projects, sign contracts, issue invoices, collect on accounts, buy my own health insurance, and sell products. I hire and I fire.
      
      I pay self-employment tax. I file a Schedule C. I've been a partner in start-ups that succeeded and start-ups that crashed and burned.
      
      Three cheers for the power that Big Business Buddies have. They took the risks and they deserve the rewards. I wish I was one of them.
      
      I am guessing, but I would bet money that you're more jealous than anything. You tell yourself that you don't want to be a Nasty Rich Person and you've built in an excuse for never getting there. Beyond that I can't fathom a reason for being so bitter over a class of people.

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         ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe he feels that humans should not be seperated and labelled by a 'class'?

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            nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            No, you're wrong on that point. He vilifies the rich, thereby labeling them as a class. I celebrate the rich, so I am guilty of labeling as well, I guess.
            
            Let me say this. I know rich people. I know billionaires and millionaires. I've stayed a their houses and socialized with them. I know their warts and their strengths on a personal level.
            
            They are just like us.
            
            Don't hate them or begrudge them their success. It'll only make you bitter and small. You can't build yourself up by tearing them down.

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               tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You've just invalidated the entire raison d'etre of the democrat party.

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                  nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Bingo. Class warfare is the stock-in-trade of Obama and his party.

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               rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               You are the one that started throwing around labels not I

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                  nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Uncle.

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            tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Then maybe everyone should stop doing that.

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               nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Good point. I think John Lennon suggested that.

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                  ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  John Lennon sang a song called 'Working Class Heroes' and made millions becoming some sort of spokesperson for the working classes. What he did not shout about was his upper middle class upbringing and his expensive private education. Lennon was a hypocrite.

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                     tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Shoulda been sent to a reeducation camp in the countryside! That woulda learned 'im!

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                        nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I was referring to "Imagine" myself.
                        
                        Lennon used to make me sick when he went on TV wearing olive drab to protest the war. Puke.

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                           ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                           Really? I wasn't alive, but it would have made me sick when an American pyscho shot him.

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                              A Texanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Britain has no psychos?

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                              nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                              Really.

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         rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         You really are off the mark but let me ease your mind.  I am not going to hate you because you claim to be of a class that I don't believe exists. Your assumptions as to my impetus to engage you in this topic precluded you from getting the point.
         
         Maybe this is a little clearer for you.  Unbridled capitalism has raped this country of its industries and standard of living.  Long gone is the American dream because of the amount of work to be applied to earn the same wage.  Your claim to move on and get for yourself that which you please is taking people from their homes and families to be able to make ends meet and not further their cause on down the road.
         
         Maybe you deserve what you have earned through good old fashioned elbow grease I don't know.  But the exodus of jobs and industry from this country was not done to help the middle class or the poor or trickle down wealth for those below.  It was done to increase profits and as a by product enslave people of other countries to do our stolen jobs.
         
         What if you made the best and cheapest product on the market and no one could still afford to buy it?
         
         If you think that is a good thing then I suggest you still don't get it.

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            tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Let me ask, do you ever expect to have a discussion that involves any meaningful exchange when you engage in extreme hyperbole like that? You have to realize you can only be speaking to the small minority who hold similarly extreme views.In which case, what's the point?

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               rhamsonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I keep trying to find more people to keep up.  Wanna join the discussion with out the attacks and definitions of what people are instead of what they are saying?
               
               The "point" if you wish it explained is that I find a great many people "on the right" if you will who engage in talking AT people instead of TO people.  Are you included in this group with your comments about the "liberal" and "left" comments many of your compatriots label different opinions.
               
               I happen to be very moderate but your judging me with the term minority places me in a box that is dealt with how you deal with people in that so called minority.
               
               If you wish to "discuss" a topic in a open frame of mind I am all for it but if you don't I am left to describing your distortions and inadequasies to carry the subject matter.  If I don't know something about the subject at hand I will certainly acquiesce.
               
               I hope you will join the conversation as your input is important.

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                  tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Does "keep up" mean "agree with you"? How can any real dialog start from such a premise?

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                  tksenseiposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Do you honestly think your comments about "capitalism raping this country" and global trade "enslaving" people, etc. is moderate?! Really?

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   Aya Katzposted 14 years ago

   Poor people used to regularly employ other people who were even poorer than they. The reason poor people no longer offer others jobs is that you can't just offer wages. You have to provide benefits, and only institutional employers and very, very wealthy people can afford that.

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   Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

   Curry just means gravy ,so some native tribe probably invented it orginally

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   zampanoposted 14 years ago

   don't let yourself be carried away.
   Lonnon and the others did their part very well.
   Have you ever heard about a revolution that was not conducted or inspired by a middle or upper class person ?
   In respect to that Lennon and his generation did a lot to change the world. And somehow it has changed.
   
   You speak about economy and finance like a well informed technician.
   When the upper node of this thread spoke about impoverishment
   he invoked reasons to which you have logically reacted.
   Your writing was most interesting and I've learned some with it.
   But I think the man is right. We're going to get poorer and poorer, maybe not because of the reasons invoked but because of other reasons this logic is no longer suitable to deal with.
   This is a feeling, no particular logic to comfort it.
   Something tells me we must "think different".
   So, I tell you.

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   Eaglekiwiposted 14 years ago

   Maybe ,but its relevant to how people think of their own contries being the greatest ,best in the world is all.
   
   Almost everyone thinks that about where they are from, so from that point of view its very relevant!
   
   In answer to the OP US people are already poorer than they ever used to be -thats just a fact.
   
   
   Oh yea Ive never beento a sewer ,but I know it stinks.

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      nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I've never been to a sewer either but I will give you one benchmark of a successful country...
      
      We have fat poor people.

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         free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thatz the coolest thing !
         
         Just like Richie Rich... The poor little Rich Boy !

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            nicompposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            And yet.... your avatar is the US currency symbol.

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               free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               I do not question the success of US currency! If anyone gives it to me, I do not mind accepting them...
               
               But being successful does not always mean being right or fair!
               
               A rich person is not necessarily always successful because his product is the best, but it can also be because his opponent may not be having enough cash to promote his product.
               
               It is just the absolute truth that the rich and poor definitely are not competing from a level playground.

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    free4indiaposted 14 years ago

    Many people seem to hit at me here trying to put me down... Please do not get personal...
    
    Guys let me tell you this.....
    
    I am NOT against outsourcing from US or UK! In fact I make a living out of it because I get my work from US and UK!
    
    However, my view is about the US people who are having trouble and I feel it is unfair especially in a rich successful country!
    
    See freelance sites like Elance and Odesk even smaller companies are outsourcing their regular administrative and data entry work.....
    
    For those favoring rich people and globalization.... they will  feel the heat only when their business is taken over by some other country......
    
    For example many Indian companies have taken over US and UK companies.
    
    http://blog.taragana.com/n/indian-firms … obs-90377/
    
    http://www.thaindian.com/newsportal/bus … 34828.html
    
    http://www.voanews.com/english/archive/ … -voa37.cfm
    
    Jaguar Cars Ltd., better known simply as Jaguar (pronounced [ˈdʒæɡjuːər]) is a British luxury car manufacturer, headquartered in Coventry, England. It has been a wholly-owned subsidiary of the Indian company Tata Motors Ltd. since March 2008 and is operated as part of the Jaguar Land Rover business.[2]

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       ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes and look where Indians have taken Jaguar, they are begging for UK government handouts to keep the business running. In other words, they bought a dud company. Indians may own Jaguar, but they sure aren't making a profit from it at the moment. Jaguar is being subsidised by the British taxpayer, so that is hardly a sign of Indias strength. Come back when you can support your own businesses, and you will have a point. British telecom own half of Mahindra & Mahindra. A truly British company, Rolls Royce, supplies the Indian military with more moneys worth of goods than Jaguar turns over in a year. I still cannot see your point, welcome to globalisation and capitalism India, but please understand that globalisation is exactly what it suggests it is..... 'Global'. Investment in foreign businesses has been commonplace for centuries. Saudi Arabians own a huge stake in Microsoft, that has not made America poorer. Congratulations on your first steps out of deprivation and dirt, please understand that a country coming out of the third world does not necessarily drag another country into it.

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          free4indiaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          You have been trying to put me down or trying to prove British are better than Indians or even British are better than US.  I wish you understand that I am not here to compete with Britain or you.
          
          I would like to remind you we are talking about the bad impact of outsourcing on ordinary people (not economy in general) especially US or UK and even I gave you reference on the article I wrote.
          
          But here in your words.....
          
          "Yes and look where Indians have taken Jaguar, they are begging for UK government handouts to keep the business running. In other words, they bought a dud company. Indians may own Jaguar, but they sure aren't making a profit from it at the moment. Jaguar is being subsidised by the British taxpayer, so that is hardly a sign of India's strength."
          
          Now here you say that Jaguar has been screwed up...... and they are not making profit...
          
          that means the people who are working for the company are getting screwed..... either without jobs or less pay..... now assuming that the fault is with the 'stupid' Indians...... that goes against your talk about the good of globalization....
          
          Either you have to agree British screwed up before Indians took over or you have to say Indian screwed it up.  If Indians screwed it up then you have to agree it is the impact of globalization... If it is not impact of globalization then it means the British screwed it up before Indians took over.....

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             ryankettposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Neither the Indians or the British screwed it up, the global financial system screwed it up. Starting in America, before creeping its way through the 10 largest developed economies. The whole auto industry is dead, surely you know about GM. The Indians currently own a loss making business, before that the British owned a loss making business, its not about me trying to compete with India. My point is that, no matter how nice Jaguar cars are and how prestigious the brand, owning a loss making company is nothing to write home about no matter where it is located or who owns it. Bigger loss making companies have been sold for $1 before, but normally to people who promise to meet its liabilities. All I am saying is that your example, of Indians owning Jaguar, is not a great one. So yes, indeed, it is the result of globalisation. I dont deny that. And yes, jobs have been lost at Jaguar, in fact jobs have been lost in car companies globally..... but the nationality of the ownership is irrelevant to that. I have to say that seeing Indian investment is actually a positive thing, investment into any country is a positive thing.

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    rebekahELLEposted 14 years ago

    although I don't agree with the OP's post, I have found this thread to be quite interesting to read and it's nice to read some decent thought processes here in the forums.   
    
    there's a lot we can do to increase income and as flightkeeper said, not all of it has to do with actual work or producing an income, it has to do with common sense and constraint and not giving in to advertising to have the latest technology, cars, etc. Americans need to save more wisely. the recession is like hitting the reset button.

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    Jane@CMposted 14 years ago

    The second largest military contractor is letting another 70% of its workforce go in San Jose, CA. A possible 5,000 in Texas.  They let my hubby and 300 others go in August, because the Army canceled their contract & the Pres. wants to cut back on Military spending.
    
    I know a woman out east who travels to India once every six months to train people for their company's call center.

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    BestAmericanArtsposted 14 years ago

    The key to restarting America’s economic engine is on Main Street, not Wall Street. We need to create real American jobs. American consumer purchases drive two-thirds of the US economy. How you choose to spend your money really matters. Imported goods are flooding the shelves of even small retailers like gift shops and galleries. American artisans create beautiful jewelry, pottery and glass. You can grow our economy and support American artisans by seeking out local gift shops and online galleries selling the best in American arts. Let's make this the year of the American gift.
    
    A couple great resources for American made goods include, http://www.digusout.com and http://www.bestamericanarts.com

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    tobey100posted 14 years ago

    I put all my money in cardboard.  Once we all become streetfolk I'm gonna be a wealthy man.

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    A Texanposted 14 years ago

    Put two boxes side by side and you got a duplex!

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