The voting on our hubs by our fellow hubbers

1. 74

   Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

   I would like to suggest a change in the voting system on hubs.
   I would like for it to remain possible to vote up another's hub, but I'd like to see the ability of voting it down removed.
   
   Some people are petty and childish, I feel that the ability to afflict damage on anothers work via negative voting, should be left to objective personel. Voting in the positive would not damage anyones work therefore I believe that ability should remain.
   
   The simple fact that one would not recieve positive votes for substandard work and would recieve positive votes for above standard work would still accoplish the same thing, while eliminating the ability of the childish, petty negative emotions humans are plagued by.
   
   Any consideration would be appreciated,
   Mikel G Roberts, an Ex-Professional Killer.

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   1. 0

      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      HubPages should either disable it or post the name and IP of the person rating it down or flagging it. i mean, they do it in comments.
      
      as illustrated in your other thread, you got mad at Cagsil and assumed he was the rogue flagger, meanwhile the person who really did it isn't going to come forward, because they are a coward who would rather hide behind HubPages' skirts, which is
      exactly why they should know that if they are going to do things like this, it will be there for all the see, in which case they would think twice.
      
      i hope they consider everyone's thoughts.

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      1. 74

         Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         No Cags got mad at me. He said a ridiculous statement and I quote "there are not levels of evil" meaning that all evil is the same (punching someone is as bad(evil) as being a child molester) and I said WHATEVER
         stressing how ridiculous that statement was. and He got mad.

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   2. 86

      Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Voting down doesn't "afflict damage" on anothers' work in any significant way.  It would have an effect on the Hub's score but that's really irrelevant to anything else but your ego - it's totally irrelevant outside HubPages.
      
      There is a big difference between the voting buttons and flagging.  And even flagging doesn't automatically do anything - if a Hubber flags a Hub, nothing happens until the Hub team reviews the flag and decides whether it's justified or not.
      
      So if your Hub is officially flagged by HubPages, don't blame another Hubber - blame the Hubteam.

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      1. 73

         livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Get rid of it if it is irrelevant.  We only need the flagging system anyway.

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         1. 74

            Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            And those of us 'in it' for the writing are in it for our egos....'cause I sure ain't making any money

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   3. 0

      B.C. BOUTIQUEposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I do agree, very much so. If a person, for whatever reason, decides they do not like any one of us, they can and will ruin our work. It is a sad world we live in, I could never dislike anyone's freedom of speech or writings. I base a person on who they are,heart - soul - spirit, and you can never judge anyone by this online ( unless you really get to know them )
      
      I believe this is a wonderful site full of very talented and good people, yes..we do have a few bad seeds, but you have that everywhere in our world.
      
      Always think before "disliking" anyone's work..is it the person or the topic, or your personal beliefs ( which we ALL are ENTITLED TO OUR OWN )..please be kind and if a topic truely bothers you in any way, just ignore it..it may be there for any number of reasons, and that hub of writings could help another out.
      
      Peace and Love to all, Kerry

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      1. 86

         Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         BC, how can an individual ruin our work?   You can only vote once on a Hub - if it's a good Hub and others are also voting, one little vote isn't going to make any difference. 
         
         If you're worried about flagging - again, flagging does nothing except bring your Hub to the attention of the HP team, who won't take any action unless they feel there's something genuinely wrong with it.

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   4. 68

      IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I think you have a very good idea here.  However, I just learned that the hub rating system does not mean anything and we should not worry about it at all.

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      1. 74

         Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         If what you say is true, (that it serves no purpose at all) then why have it?
         
         I say delete the ability to down vote hubs, even if it does absolutely no damage to down vote a hub.
         
         Not having a vote down button would give me a little piece of mind, and keeping the 'up' vote allows for positive reinforcement...
         
         constructive criticism can be sent via comments, that way the author can choose to read and delete if they wish.

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         1. 68

            IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Gosh I don't know, but I just posted a forum topic on hubpage rating.  I was worried that since I receive mostly outside traffic to my hubs, that I was having concerns with my rating.  I was told not to worry about it.  Read for yourself.  http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/34029 So if it has no bearing, I'm with you "delete the ability".

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            1. 74

               Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               It just takes up server space.

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               1. 68

                  IntimatEvolutionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I guess so.

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               2. 58

                  twuxedoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Totally agree, its been a learning Day my French girlfriend couldn't apparently spell per se.

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2. 61

   tantrumposted 14 years ago

   I think what it has to change is, that one should know who's the hubber flagging up or down.

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   1. 58

      twuxedoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree 100% If they have the Balls then they should be happy to carry their convictions.
      Sadly they obviously don't Kind of person that ya wouldn'twant at ya Barby.

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3. 63

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   Shh, don't tell anybody, but negative votes are not taken too seriously by the hub ranking system, exactly for the reasons you mentioned.

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   1. 0

      shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      oh wise guru... he speaketh with peace on tongue.  hehehe  Thanks for that... I didnt know!

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4. 66

   Ivorwenposted 14 years ago

   Considering a visit can improve the score on the hub, I like the down button.  I have only used it when I was very, very sorry I had entered the hub, but could see no reason to flag it.
   
   That may sound rude, but I did not my visit to count for anything.

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5. 67

   blondepoetposted 14 years ago

   I agree Mike 100%
   I have mentioned this a long time ago in the forum, and I have seen many people ask for it.
   I don't see any point for having it whatsoever. I believe if someone does not like a hub, best policy is just not read it.
   I think it can be used against a Hubber, for many wrong reasons, jealousy, clash of personalities etc.I would like to think people don't use it.
   It only does more damage than good to the poor Hubber.
   I vote please remove it too.
   P.s also what if in some-one's eyes it is not up to par, or it goes against their opinions and hits the down button, where as in fact to someone else it is a gem. I only ever hit the up don't want to drag anyone else down.

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   1. 61

      tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I agree with you.
      but in the case they don't remove it, it would be good to know who's flagging our hub down. That way people would think twice before doing it.

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      1. 67

         blondepoetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I am someone who loves to know all the ins and outs. Sure I would love to know too Tantrum.

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6. 67

   blondepoetposted 14 years ago

   Oops meant to say to everyone "Good morning".

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7. 63

   Mishaposted 14 years ago

   Morning Deb Read my post above

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   1. 67

      blondepoetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Oh wow I am relieved. I just said a lot of something for nothing LMAO

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8. 63

   darksideposted 14 years ago

   Leave it.
   
   It has little effect and it gives pathetic people a purpose in life if they wish to misuse and abuse it.

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   1. 67

      blondepoetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It is nice to know that if pathetic people are going around using it thinking it is doing major damage, and its not......lol I find it quite funny now

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      1. 61

         tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         

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   2. 59

      TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Sorry, I didn't even read all of the thread yet but darkside, this is great!

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   3. 0

      Ghost32posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      What Darkside said.

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9. 61

   tantrumposted 14 years ago

   But in this case it seems it worked.
   Or if not we have to assume HP flags hubs without reading them.

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10. 60

    mel22posted 14 years ago

    second the notion of Mikel regardless if hub doesnt take serious or not.. maybe a scale 1-10 with the top and bottom hedged off a percentage for overly happy people who give auto 10's no matter what and hedge the bottom to take off votes that are in anger, then divide and take an average.. will never happen though. deeds told me in a post that people only use 10 for the most part and ,to not take it seriously....which left me with the question... why even be able to vote then... i think hubpage integrity is lost without a fair voting system.. I thought it was to prevent spammers but if not whats the point! and also thought added to author score for participation which i guess they don't want.

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    1. 63

       Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Do you copy?

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11. 63

    Mishaposted 14 years ago

    Tant, flag and down vote are different.
    
    Down vote goes into automated hub ranking system and may slightly affect the score of the hub.
    
    Flag puts the hub into the queue for manual review by staff.
    
    Hope this clarifies the issue for everybody, but considering the number of times I have to come back to this I do not hold my breath...

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    1. 61

       tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I know that. But then this hub in question  has been flagged wrongly by HP.
       the question is, when they manually have to flag, do they read the content of the hub ?
       Why was this hub flagged for?

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       1. 74

          Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          "Mis-leading Title" But that is on the other forum post thread not this one...this one is about taking away the ability to vote negatively on another hubbers hub.

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          1. 61

             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I read that hub, because of the title. and I was sure it had to do with soldiers or professional secret services. And My assumption was correct. I can't see anything wrong in the title.
             maybe i'm stupid !
             

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       2. 63

          Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Helloooo? Flagging is done BY A USER. And all it does, it puts a hub into the line for review by staff. STAFF DO NOT DO FLAGGING, staff manually reviews flagged hubs. Come on Tant, it's not THAT hard to grasp.

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          1. 74

             Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Does that mean that as soon as a user 'flags' a hub it is unpublished?

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             1. 63

                Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                No. If the hub was unpublished, that means it has been reviewed by staff and found to be in violation. If this is the case, contact them by email (team at hubpages dot com) and work with them to achieve mutually satisfactory results.

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          2. 61

             tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             When HP say to you ,your hub is flagged, who did it ?
             When they manually review, they flag it.
             It's that so difficult to grasp?
             Or are the hubbers who send the e-mail to you, telling you so ?

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             1. 63

                Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Flagged? User
                When they manually review, they either clear the flag, or unpublish.

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    2. 69

       Cagsilposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       

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12. 74

    Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

    @ BlondePoet   nice article/interview of Lyrics
    My Compliments

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    1. 0

       lyricsingrayposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       hey, thanks.  she did an amazing job that hot chick

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       1. 74

          Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I have some new found respect for that 'hot chic' as well... and i'm not talking about BP...

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    2. 67

       blondepoetposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks heaps Mike have a great day.

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13. 0

    Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago

    Mike don't worry about the rating system. I had a guy hounding me for a while, leaving comments that I was a substandard hubber, ranking my hubs down and leaving a comment that he was doing so. I just ignored him and deleted his comments.
    
    My hubber score and hubscores didn't fall and my sales continued. Eventually he stopped, because he decided that I wasn't near as bad as the Indian photo hubs. Go figure.
    
    The only change I've made is that I try to remember to make it so that I have to approve comments before they appear.

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    1. 60

       mel22posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Actually that person was me Nelle, because at the time I was new  ( and still fairly new to hubpages) and didn't understand the difference between overlypromotional and commercial. however I was not doing that out of anger but thought I was flagging for an actual violation. After I realized overlyporomotional meant something different with excessive linking , I aplogized. I was not able to take back ,the down rank on the hubs i (wrongly) questioned for (obverlypromotonal)content. The content was actually commercial. But that reiterates the point of hedging off a cetain percentage of low and high votes b4 dividing and calculating. If I could take back those votes I would but I can't...as far as the Bollywood hubs I will still flag those if there are only 3 pictures and no words because that does not constitute an article , IMO - Hope that clears that up since I did not explain through the e-mail apology! Mikel, i still second the notion about hub ranking.

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    2. 58

       twuxedoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I took a look at your Stuff after reading this, Seems you only write Review type Stuff.
       So I don't understand why people would have a Criticism, its not writing per cest.

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          darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          And it's not "writing per cest" but "writing per se". I wouldn't offer to help anyone with their punctuation when you clearly need help with your spelling.

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             shazwellynposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             DS... I still cant spell masterbation or is it mastercation? hehehe

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          2. 58

             twuxedoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             I'm Greek not French, you strike me as someone thats always around doing the corrections, prefer to be a lone educator.
             No argument from me, you were not being addressed.

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             1. 0

                Deborah Sextonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                I have relatives that are Greek and we go there once a year. First we stay in Athens then we go out to the Villa next to Zaharos on the beach.

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                   twuxedoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Idyllic, yet I love Oz these days

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14. 61

    tantrumposted 14 years ago

    Once I had a hub flagged for poor content. wasn't unpublished. they sent an e-mail to me telling me so. and that the next time I was going to be banned.

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    1. 63

       Mishaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Well, I guess they did you a favor, or they don't unpublish for minor violations (the ones they deem minor).
       This does not change the fact that flagging is done by a user, not by staff.

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       1. 61

          tantrumposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          OK
          As I received that e-mail once, I thought they flag as well. My bad !

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15. 0

    cosetteposted 14 years ago

    oh haha
    
    sorry about that. in any case, someone got mad at someone and someone erroneously assumed something about someone because someone's hub was flagged. i agree with BP, some people do it out of jealousy, and i also agree with DS, they are pathetic. i would just like to see who these pathetic souls are.

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    1. 74

       Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I did not erroneously assume anything as it turned out, cags was later caught in the lie and I know it was him...

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       1. 86

          Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          As I just said, even if Cagsil did vote your Hub down or flag it, you would never know.  The ONLY people who can put an official flag on your Hub is the HubPages team, and they judge all reports by Hubbers on their merits before taking any action.

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16. 0

    cosetteposted 14 years ago

    oh dear.
    
    well, the only point i want to make is to repeat my quest for HP to either eliminate the rate down option or reveal the person doing the rating down, (or flagging). i mean, why should their identity be protected?

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       livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       LOL I can't believe you just asked that. j/k

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    2. 86

       Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Because there have been some nasty and vindictive people on HubPages who have written bad Hubs and deserve to be reported - you wouldn't want people to be scared to report them for fear of reprisals, would you?

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       1. 0

          cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          well actually, they could privately email the HubTeam if someone is writing some hub so horrific that it deserves intervention. i haven't been here as long as you so maybe i don't know just how nasty and vindictive some people can be, but i do know that when someone's hubs get ranked down or flagged and coincidentally they happen to have some forum skirmish with someone, they automatuclaly assume that is the person who did the deed.
          
          also, i read some hubs that i think are bad or even inflammatory but i leave them be, and i'll tell you why - because the writer is expressing themselves and even if i don't agree with them, like one hub bashing non-believers, they have a right to say it as long as it doesn't violate HubPages' rules.
          
          i hope i am making sense. i am just getting over a bad cold so i am a little fuzzy at the moment.

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          1. 86

             Marisa Wrightposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Cosette, changing the system so you had to email instead of flag wouldn't make any difference - the person flagged would still know that it's possible for a Hubber to report them, it's just a different mechanism.
             
             The biggest problem is this persistent misconception that a Hubber flagging your Hub causes damage - it doesn't. All it does is bring something to the HubPages team's attention a bit earlier than they'd find it on their own. 
             
             If it doesn't violate the rules, they'll do nothing.  If it does violate the rules, then the writer of the Hub should be grateful - because HubPages rules reflect Adsense's rules. It's better to get unpublished by Hubpages than get banned by Adsense, so Hubbers should quit getting their knickers in a knot and start thinking of the HubPages flagging system as an early warning mechanism which actually protects them!

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             1. 0

                cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                people DO that? 'k, that is really tacky. if the only way a person's hubs get rated up is because they ask their buddies to do it, it doesn't speak very well for them or their writing. well, whatever.
                
                
                
                
                
                oh good. that's good to hear!
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                not me. i don't roll that way. when someone messes with me in a mean way and shows what they are really all about, i ignore them completely. that's all they deserve.
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                tres chic
                
                (i hate when people spell it "per say". aiee!)
                
                
                
                
                
                
                
                i agree that it can work as a warning mechanism. i pay careful attention to auto messages i get from HP saying 'your hub is in danger of being too short' or something, because i really do want to do the right thing. i personally don't get my knickers in a knot. sometimes i will have a pretty good new hub and all of a sudden it will go, say, from a 61 rating to 49 and i know there's nothing wrong with it but i don't dwell on why it might be dropping. if someone is out there flagging it, they sure must think a lot of me to spend their valuable time clicking my buttons. the onliest reason i want to see who these people are is to perhaps deter them from malicious flagging so innocent people don't get accused. but people are going to think whatever they want to, so what can you do.
                
                i've learned something here from this thread - one, malicious flaggers can only do it once and two, it doesn't have any real impact on our overall scores, so that's good - thanks. now hopefully some of these people who go around accusing some mysterious rogue hubber of single-handedly toppling their little hub empire will be advised to just write better content

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                1. 74

                   Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Unless they have 400 'Sock Puppet' account profiles, then they can do it 400 times....and they can probably write a small program to cause their vote from any 1 profile to send a vote from all 400 profiles, which means it is easy for them to do.

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                      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      seriously? FOUR HUNDRED SOCK PUPPETS? who is that sick?
                      
                      it seems to me HubPages would be aware of someone that weird.

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                      1. 74

                         Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Aware or not if their rules state you can have as many sock puppets as you want....

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                         Dame Scribeposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         I 2nd that e-motion! love your honesty, lol

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             AdsenseStrategiesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Yes, your voice sounds nasally

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    3. 58

       twuxedoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       They remind me of perverts, they get name suppression for the sake of their Victims, No we should know who pushes the button, be iot the Team or whatever member. Tongue in Cheek then we could rapidly retaliate. I guess thats the reason, we are not able to know. But then how many of us are small minded enough to retaliate?.

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17. 55

    yoshi97posted 14 years ago

    I would assume that the voting up or down is done by the 'one person - one vote' method, whereas they track who voted what to keep someone from spamming the down button on someone's hub.
    
    If that's the case (which I believe it is) then angering one hubber will have no effect, unless they are the only hubber that chooses to read your hubs - either way you're already boned on that one.
    
    Of course, if you made enemies of many at the same time that might work against you - but anyone that is making the whole neighborhood mad could possibly use a bit of humility at that point.
    
    Regardless, if this is how it works, it would prevent a hub from suffering unless a lot of people found it offensive or unworthy - in which case the score deserves to drop.
    
    
    And as far as flagging and banning goes ... I've been told that the Hubpage staff follows an 'enlighten me' approach, whereas they don't react to something unless it is pointed out to them or it falls out under their nose. After all, the staff have better things to do than to nose around looking for problem children when they have 800,000 hubbers willing to do the kob for them.
    
    As for showing the IPs of those who rate down hubs ... not going to happen. People (as a rule) rate things more honestly when they know their identity is withheld. If you show who rated hubs down you would cause a lot of hubbers to stop rating hubs - out of fear of reprisal.
    
    The only reason IPs are shown for comments (in my opinion) is because negative comments have an impact on hubs and the staff DOES want people to think before posting them ... as hubpages makes money off of these hubs just like we do. As such, I think they want to prevent bad comment storming on their pages.
    
    And Mikel ... I'm not sure, but I think the title of the hub you wrote might have been a problem as it could easily have been misconstrued as being about a hitman ... and such a hub would violate the Google TOS.
    
    Again, I could be wrong, but I think that might have been the thought process that went into flagging it and taking it down.
    
    No problem ... change the title to something like 'My time as a sharpshooter for the Marines' (or something like that) and then you can use your original title for your first header in your hub, as by then you have make it clear that it is a military hub you are writing. I'm not positive it will do the trick, but my bones tell me it will - and these old bones rarely lie.

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       Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       what a lousy title that would be.... but I understand your point.

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          yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          hahaha!!! If I had come up with a great title I woulda used it myself.

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18. 0

    cosetteposted 14 years ago

    really. they can only do it once? once per session or once per IP? if once per IP is the case, then that seems ok...

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    1. 55

       yoshi97posted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I believe it would be once per IP ... which would also prevent your friends from pumping your hub up the hubscore ladder through multiple voting
       
       Only Paul can say for sure ... but I'm certain such a protection exists.

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       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       If you mean voting then it's once per registered profile.

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19. 66

    Ivorwenposted 14 years ago

    Well said Marisa.

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    1. 74

       Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Very, I hearitly agree

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20. 67

    Michael Willisposted 14 years ago

    If the up and down rating stays, then a compromise could be that when a hub is rated down then a reason should be given and the hub team looks at it and if the hub is not fairly rated, then the one who rated it down be penalized.
    I have seen a site that does this and it discourages people from just down rating others work for wrong reasons. 
    As one person said earlier that she didn't want her visit to a hub to count for anything to help the hub if she didn't like it, a very short hit on the hub I don't think will take that hub to a top rating here on hubpages. It takes more than that. If I don't like the hub I enter, I leave, period! There may be others who do like it or find it informative to them. If the hub deserves to be flagged, then flag it and let the hub team do their jobs.

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    1. 63

       darksideposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       That sounds like a full time job for one or more people.
       
       Voting is a matter of personal taste. It's not something that should be policed. I'm sure that there are measures in place to stop abuse, but I can't see a small team like HubPages wanting to pay for extra employees to do a job of small consequence.

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21. 62

    Wayne Orvisburgposted 14 years ago

    Can I vote down on this form post?

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22. 48

    watchfulIposted 14 years ago

    Considering, you have yet to write anything yourself.
    I would hardly rate you a person that is capable of Critiqueing, the capabilities of a fellow Hubbers writing.
    As for your "Reviews" comment, who on earth calls that type of Propoganda writing.
    Write something yourself and maybe, just maybe someone will listen to you.
    Otherwise MOVE ALONG.

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       twuxedoposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Nah, I haven't written a Hub yet, I am going to, perhaps I could start by helping you with your punctuation.

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          watchfulIposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I would prefer, that you did not.

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23. 75

    cheaptrickposted 14 years ago

    Here goes the Internet Hub Pages retard again.
    I had not a clue that folks could vote your Hubs up or down..
    Tantrum mentioned not knowing who voted.That's kind of scary.

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24. 74

    Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

    I have been to Athens, it doesn't get much more beautiful than that...

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