What do you do when your better half doesn't want children?

1. 82

   dohn121posted 14 years ago

   I usually don't ask for advice here on HubPages when it comes to gender and relationships, but this is a special situation: I'm seeing someone who DOES NOT WANT CHILDREN. Obviously, I do want to have children, but this has been a topic of discussion between the two of us for some time now.  She herself did not have a very good childhood (I think that her decision on the matter has a lot to with it) and claims that she doesn't want to have the responsibility of raising children.  She doesn't feel confident in the role of a mother...
   
   I on the other hand, have helped raise my nephew and during my summers in college and high school was a camp counselor.  I enjoyed every minute of it.  I learned a very long time ago that I wanted to have children.
   
   So here's the $64,000 question: What do I do?  I'm over the moon for her and the feeling is reciprocal, but she doesn't want children   This has really been bothering me as of late.
   
   Your thoughts?

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      wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      End it.
      
      
      Sorry to be blunt, but don't wind up where I am.
      My ex said no at first, but when we got serious he started saying "maybe" or "later, when we're ready".
      Then 14 years later he ended the marriage. So here's me, with no hope of children.
      
      I didn't mean that to sound whiny, but I did mean it to sound dead serious.
      If you want them and she doesn't, your best hope is that she would like to remain your friend after you break it off.
      

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         dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks for the response.  I really hope that it doesn't have to come to that.  I've always been told that marriage is not a "reform school."  If ever we do get married, I'm going to have to suck up to the fact that she doesn't want children and live with it   One of the things that I want to do is to try to better understand her decision in the matter. 
         
         I'm sorry to hear about you and your husband by the way

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            wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            thanks dohn - but think about this.
            
            I decided to suck it up myself. I decided that a marriage to a guy that I was head over heels with, even without children, would be enough keep me happy.
            Would you be willing to take a risk like I did?
            
            
            You're a thoughtful guy, and I know you won't make a light decision.
            Whatever you do, be happy

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               wavegirl22posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               d-
               i do believe that jen knows what she is talking about. . its different for a man . .your clock isnt ticking. . so you dont feel the pressure of that. . but  if you want kids .. that is something that is not to be sacrificed .. somewhere along the way . .on a day or days that you are not so crazy about one another. (you know those days come and go). . .. resentment may play a part. .  .. this isnt like a decision on where to live or something that one can make such a sacrifice. . having kids goes to the bare bone of your existence . .

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   2. 69

      yenajeonposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Hi Dohn,
      Trust me as my cousin has been in this exact situation. If you stay with her in the hopes that she'll change her mind about children, it'll be an awful situation.
      1. She might eventually due to guilt or just wanting to make you happy, have those children with you.
      2. She'll will in someway regret her decision, because it was a decision pushed or forced upon her and resent maybe you and even your children.
      
      The other scenario is that she will never give in and one of the two of you will have to give up.
      
      I think it's best to assume no one will change. Its now up to you to decide if she is enough for you that when you're 65 you will be happy with your choice and won't regret one bit that you didn't have children and grandchildren!
      
      Hope you figure things out
      Yena

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      livewithrichardposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I've been where you are Dohn and I know all too well how frustrating it can be. If you truly love this girl then you have to accept her decision and resolve yourself with the idea that you may never be a dad.  I know this is a whole lot easier said than done because it's what I had to do in my last relationship which eventually died because of it.
      
      A couple years ago I reconnected with my high school girlfriend who was recently divorced with 3 kids of her own. We discussed having children of our own but I was resolute with my previous decisions knowing full well that that boat had sank. I'm 41 and perfectly content being a step dad.
      
      My best advice for you if you need children to enrich your life is to choose a career path that involves children. Become a professional story teller or start your own summer camp. Either of those will allow you the time to pursue your other desire of becoming a published author and you get the added benefit of being a role model for young children.

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   4. 0

      cosetteposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      will she ever want children? she may be at a point in her life where she just thinks she doesn't want children, but people change. if it were me i would say i really want children someday, just so she knows i intend to have them someday. children deserve to be wanted by BOTH parents. if you're asking should you stay with her well you are over the Moon, which is wonderful. give it time. as her love deepens, and as she sees you interacting with children, she'll come around. good luck Dohn.
      
      
      p.s. when my son was born and they brought him to me, all screeching because they swaddled him, which he hated, i heard that wail coming down the hall and i was all wanting to run in the other direction as much as i wanted him, because i was scared! the full responsibility of raising a child to 18 (and beyond) was terrifying. i thought omg i'm responsible for this little guy forever. but his pediatrician put him in my arms and talked to me and i told her i was scared and was afraid i wouldn't be able to be a good parent and she smiled and gave me a hug, saying 'those are the best mommies' and she was right. tell your moonchild that, it will make her feel better. love, cosette

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         Sally's Troveposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         dohn, you are faced with a difficult decision, but a decision it is. It has nothing to do with your putting your efforts into changing the way your intended thinks or wishing that things were different.  She has said what she means.  And now you have to deal with it.
         
         It's up to you to trade, because it is a trade, your desire for children for a life with this woman you love.  Can you do that... do you want to do that?
         
         I've known too many who thought, going into marriage with this exact issue between them, well, he or she will change. It doesn't work that way.  Perhaps the couple does have a child, but then the child pays the price, because father or mother did not want this child. Even though father and mother agreed rationally that the child was to be loved and nurtured, once it arrived, there is always a lingering resentment by the one who did not want children.
         
         There's another side of this, and that's the self-hate that the one who wants a child inflicts upon him/her self.  This spouse is hurting not only because a child is not in the offing (or because a child has been born but there is not the commitment from the other parent), but because this hurting spouse is wondering why she/he made this decision to begin with.
         
         When we look at the person to marry, love can be blind. It's a juggling of desire and reality. Love does not conquer all, unless the love is selfless and does not depend on the actions of another.
         
         Best wishes to you.

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   wavegirl22posted 14 years ago

   understanding that you are crazy for one another .. . in the here and now. .  still does not move me one iota to tell you it will all be ok. . . there is nothing more amazing than having a child. . .and if one of you doesnt want one .. what kind of future is there. . I wish I had wiser words for you here my friend. . but I dont. . all i can tell you is there isnt anything more special then having kids. . and I think (no i take that back I Know   .. you will be one of the all time ever amazing dads . .

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      DO NOT  have kids on purpose w/ someone who doesnt want them....

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         wavegirl22posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         i wasnt telling him to have kids with someone who doesnt want them  .

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            Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            oh...i was trying to agree with you. sorry....

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               wavegirl22posted 14 years agoin reply to this

               sorry back  .i thought .. well it doesnt matter. . obviously me you and jen are on the same page when it comes to this . .

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                  wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  
                  I knew what you meant Justine. But then when I read wave's reply, I got confused...
                  
                  OK let's straighten this out.
                  
                  Dohn, count all three of our votes the same

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                     Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     want me to be a dragon again? 

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                  dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  I TOTALLY understand what both of you guys are saying and I really do appreciate all of your advice.  It pains me to think of the following:
                  
                  1) Not having children
                  
                  2) Not being with her
                  
                  I really must be in love if I'm willing to make such a sacrifice This really stinks...

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                     Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     
                     xo
                     your strong, wich suck sometimes....but you will be ok...

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                     wyanjenposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     Yes it does.
                     
                     Don't forget to factor in your hormones. Or should I say, factor them out.
                     
                     You will be able to find companionship throughout your life. But, there is a time limit for children.
                     I don't envy your choice my friend. Maybe if you step back from it for a bit, the right answer will come to you.
                     
                     With that, I'm gone.

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                        dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        I really like this idea as well.  Time should certainly be a factor.  Thank you again, I mean that

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                  Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  :
                  Same page...yes
                  only I need to shut up now. 
                  Dhon.....Ill have to come back when I can explain proper.
                  You are an amazing man. Dont sell yourself short. And in no way do I mean insult to the woman you love, perhaps this situation merely requires patience? But at some point patience becomes.....slavery?.....only you know the difference.
                  and realization/acceptance hurts, I know.

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                  1. 82

                     dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                     You are definitely qualified when it comes to giving sound advice, DM.  No apologies are needed, my friend
                     
                     She told me that maybe I have to "move on."
                     
                     My response?  I told her to tell ME that the two of us have "no shot" of ever being together...
                     
                     But she refuses to.  Crazy, huh? She doesn't want to lose me either.

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                        Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

                        of all nights for me to be drunk.....
                        
                        love hurts....  by nazareth:
                        
                        choices, man. Wich do you want more?
                        of course she doeent want to loose you.
                        Give it a week anyway..
                        

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      dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thank you Shari.  I've been telling her this all along.  She looks at children as a burden and I look at them as a blessing.  I love to spend time with my niece and nephews.  I look forward to every meeting with them.  I'd give my life for any one of them and that know it.  Wyajen's comment scares me silly...I don't want to "hope" for years and years that she changes her mind.
      
      Overall, I care so much about her that I'm willing to make such a sacrifice and NOT have children.  But it's against my wishes...
      
      I do believe that I would be a good dad!  Thank you <3

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         wavegirl22posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         o . .not a good dad . .you will be a great dad. . i know that deep in my heart and soul .. .

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            dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Thank you, sweetie

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   Justine76posted 14 years ago

   Geez.....your only question now? i have reeeeeel good answers but cant type due to BEER and my Wii
   
   AHHHHHHHHHHH
   
   honestly, are kids..for you..a 'make or break' deal?

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   1. 82

      dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks, DM.  Yeah, for now that is   I may be willing to make a sacrifice   I just wish that she make the same sacrifice in turn to be with me

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         Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

         
         I cant type what I mean to say tonight
         
         read my hubs and your comments to me....
         just like Cosette.....take your own advice.  xo

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4. 66

   Ivorwenposted 14 years ago

   I firmly believe that the dreams of two people have to be compatible, before a marriage will really work.  If the dreams are not compatible, I think there will be resentment, in the long run. 
   
   For me, having children was very important.  I would not have married anyone who did not share my views on this subject.  I looked for a man who would make a good father - someone who also loved children. 
   
   From my own experience, the first man who proposed to me was headed to the marines.  It was his life long dream.  I did not want to be a military wife, so turned him down.  He offered to give up his dreams, and follow mine, but I don't think either of us would ever have been truly happy.  He is now happily married, and so am I.  We both have what we really wanted out of life, but not with each other.
   
   I'm sorry that you are in such a tough situation.  I personally would decide whether raising a family or the girl is more important, not just for today, but for the next 30+ years.  You know your heart.

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      Justine76posted 14 years agoin reply to this

          shes right
      omg
      ive been dealing with this question for weeks with other people I know....how odd
      Dohn, i have no clue about this girl. But you cant fix people, and they cant fix you.

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      dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Gosh, what can I say?  Both wyanjen and Ivorwen gave such good, sound advice--probably better advice than I expected. It really does scare me to think years down the road whether or not I'm going to regret not having children.  14+ years can disappear in a blink of an eye...Her and I are on the brink of ending it all because of our contrasting views on having and raising children.  I really don't want to lose her.  I feel as if I've waited my entire life for her
      
      I do know my heart (unfortunately).

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5. 64

   mintinfoposted 14 years ago

   I don't know how long you and your partner have been together but I think you should push the issue further when the time is right. She might give in later down the line.

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      dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      This is also good advice...She broke up with her last boyfriend due to him pestering her about the issue   Maybe I should learn from HIS mistake?
      
      Thanks for the advice

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6. 78

   Mighty Momposted 14 years ago

   Hi Dohn,
   Talk about a conundrum!
   I agree that having compatible goals for the relationship (more than in the here and now) is essential for marriage. Don't know what your religious persuasion is, but getting some prenuptual counseling might be a good idea.
   I can't even begin to tell you the regret (and resentment) you will feel down the line if you stifle such a huge part of yourself.
   When all your friends are engaging in 'firsts' with their kids -- kindergarten, soccer goals, lost teeth, etc, etc. -- you will be on the sidelines. Is that what you want?
   Now, it could be that your lady's biological clock simply hasn't started ticking yet. When that little time bomb goes off it's pretty hard to resist (hence the perpetuation of the human species).
   Good luck. I guess the best thing to do is continue to keep the lines of communication open. And remember, marriage is all about COMPROMISE...
   MM

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      dohn121posted 14 years agoin reply to this

      It's great to hear from you, MM.  Now that you mentioned it, seeing my friends with their children whilst attending their get-togethers, birthdays and the like would really give me a feeling of resentment, not to mention regret.  If the two of us do get married, I can only hope that she'll change her mind (at this point, having just one child--boy or girl--would be fine by me).  Prenuptial counseling sounds very mature and I'm all for that.
      
      You give such good advice, MM.  Thank you so much!
      
      In case your wondering, the girl in question is in my avatar

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7. 67

   trish1048posted 14 years ago

   hi dohn,
   
   It sounds to me that this woman not only does not want children, but will never want them.  While you believe she is 'the one' for you, trust me, there are many more 'the ones' out there.
   Do not spend your life regretting your decision.  As others have said, how will you feel when you're out and about and you see families everywhere with their children, while you stand there and stare wistfully at the joy you see, with tears running down your face because you compromised your heart.
   I was fortunate and had 'the one', along with two children.  He was my first true love.  Sadly, as you may or may not know, I lost him at the tender age of 36.  If he and I had put child-bearing on hold, I would never have had my children.
   Raising children is a full time life-long committment, as I'm sure you're well aware.
   In the past almost a quarter of a century since I lost my hubby, I have found a true love, but at this stage of my life we cannot and will not ever be a couple.  This is ok.
   If you give in to her wishes, I agree with the others, eventually resentment will come into play.  This would be like me finding someone, and he is perfect except that he feels the need to lie upon occasion.  But, other than that, he is perfect in every way.  Well, I could stay with him with a mistaken belief that it's not that often, it's only a white lie, and I could compromise.  NOT.  The worst mistake a person could make, in my opinion, is going into a relationship thinking either the person will change, or you can change them.  Trust me on this one, I've been there, done that, and it does not work.  Pretty much, what you see is what you get.  I've learned this lesson the hard way.  Some things are so ingrained in someone that no matter whether you move the moon and the stars, the heavens and earth, that person simply cannot change.  It is part of who they are, and that's ok, but it doesn't make them the right one.  I've been in several relationships where I glossed things over, totally overlooked other things, and had I paid attention to my gut, I would have been better off a lot sooner.  Instead, I ended up thinking what the hell just happened there?  Had I paid attention, I would have seen it coming.
   While I know the decision to end what you believe to be the perfect relationship is difficult, and will no doubt pain you should you decide to move on, you will get through it and no doubt, with no regrets.  You will come to learn and believe in your heart of hearts that you did the right thing.  Also, you will feel better if you let her move on to find someone who shares her desire for never having children.  In the long run, you will both be much happier.
   Depending on where you are in life, you need to weigh out all the options.  The best advice I can offer is follow your heart.  While it's nice to want to compromise, do not do it at the expense of your true heart.
   
   Good luck dohn, I wish you the best.

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8. 81

   Princessaposted 14 years ago

   If you can wait dohn121, do it.  Wait until she is ready for it. Do not press her into it.  My husband waited more than 6 years before I felt I was ready to raise a family.
   
   If you cannot wait (for whatever reasons) I would advice you to work on your feelings towards her.  There are plenty of couples who can have children but do not want them and they are very happy.  But if having children is an absolut must for you, maybe looking for another girl would be a better option.

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9. 48

   Purple Perlposted 14 years ago

   I am sorry about your predicament, dohn121!
   Children are a blessing, and I agree with Mighty mom and Princessa!
   If your lady friend is obsessed with losing her figure, you could adopt a child-there are soo many waiting to be!
   If she thinks she will not make a good mom , she is not ready to be adaptable or does not have patience.
   I know of so many moms including myself,who do not know whether we will make good moms, but God made us to be the ones to bear a child after a pregnancy of 9 months during which time we are prepared mentally & physically for the delivery and all pains of childbirth are forgotten when you see & hold your bundle of joy for the very first time.It pays to be spiritually strong as well.
   If she has had a bad childhood, it is possible that it may rub off on her kids and that is what she is scared of- let her see a psychiatrist for counselling.
   I do not mean to be rude, but those are hard facts for why some women generally put off or refuse to have kids. Marriage & kids go hand in hand as the bonds are strengthened and giving birth & then, watching your kids grow is something you can cherish together.
   By the way, a woman can safely conceive upto age 36.
   
   All the very best!

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10. 68

    torimariposted 14 years ago

    For ME, it would be a godsend as I don't want my own children.
    
    For you, like others suggested, is it a deal breaker?
    
    Don't marry her until you are both on the same page about kids as it seems important with you, whether you not wanting them, or she finally wanting them.
    
    If her not wanting children is more than not wanting a mother role, like fear of giving birth or just not wanting to the problems that go with pregnancy, ask her if she'd be up for adoption?
    
    Good luck. :]

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11. 62

    prettydarkhorseposted 14 years ago

    Hi Dohn, it is indeed a big predicament, as I know you really love children and I know you will be a good dad. If neither one of you can budge, you’ll both have a very, very hard decision to make about whether you should stay together. I have a feeling you can understand her, but for how long?
    
    It’s hard to leave a good loving relationship Dohn, but it’s even harder to live your whole life feeling bitter about being in a lifestyle --not having children--
    
    Give time for it.. maybe counseling will help --- (I really dont know what else to say because I really love children)
    
    I wish you well Dohn.and hoping she changed her mind, hmm a good little son and daughter--good writer like you--hehe

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12. 61

    Lady_Eposted 14 years ago

    How about having young nephews/nieces over for a day or so every so often? You all have a fun day out. She might start to enjoy the time and have a change of mind.
    
    Counselling is another thing - it could be that she is seeing something from just one point of view and needs a change of mind set?
    
    Getting some friends/family to have a talk with her?
    
    At least try some things to see how you can get her to come round. Very tricky situ - I personally wouldn't want to marry someone who doesn't want kids but my Love for them would look for a way round it. I really hope it works out well.
    Best Wishes

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13. 62

    Anathposted 14 years ago

    I understand her.  Having children is not every women's priority.  I can think of many reason why not to have them.  Just because we are women and can bear children doesn't mean that we want them or we must have them.  No one should be forced to do it in the name of love.  A love that requests such a big sacrifice is not love anymore.
    
    Good luck and all the best to both of you.

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14. 66

    Flightkeeperposted 14 years ago

    Hi dohn, I just wanted to put in my 2 cents.  It's obvious you love kids.  If it's very important to you and she doesn't change her mind, it could eventually sour your feelings towards her. Just a thought.
    
    Depending on how old she is, she may change her mind later on and still have the kids, she looks young so it could happen.  You just never know.
    
    I don't know if I was helpful.  But it's a tough situation and I feel for you.  Hope you find a solution, whether it's temporary or permanent that both of you can work out.

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    manlypoetrymanposted 14 years ago

    Fast Forward your life....20 years...and try to see what that would be like with no kids...No college tuitions to worry about...no proms...no birthday parties...no grand-kids down the road...no weddings...no teaching lil' junior how to drive...no taking the little kids fishing/camping...no family vacations, etc. As compared to: relationships change with kids...there would be less financial struggling on a middle family income (As an average...not sure how rich you are )...more time for yourself...and the couple...more freedom...less trips to the dentist, soccer fields, doctor, PTA meetings, etc...more time to do personal things...travel, hobbies, career, etc. You see where I'm going with this...!?
    
    Just a few examples...but I'm sure you get the drift...of this!
    
    Picture yourself...and your life...twenty years from now...and what your life will be like...and what you want it to be like...there is your answer!

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    caravalhophotoposted 14 years ago

    Don't forsake your own happiness in the hopes another will feel that void...it wont happen.  Better that you find a spouse that has the same wants as you...otherwise you will become bitter later and regret the choice you make today.

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    KCC Big Countryposted 14 years ago

    What a tough situation to be in, Dohn.  I think it would be a good exercise to sit down and honestly ask yourself what you like/love about your girlfriend.  Then, ask yourself if there could be anyone else out there for you that possesses those same qualities.  Of course there is!  No matter how special this girl is and no matter how much you love her, you are certainly capable of loving someone else.
    
    The last thing you want is for her to give in and have kids only to resent them and take it out on them.  That would kill you.  You want a companion who adores kids like you do who sees them as a joy to be around and an honor and a blessing to have them in your life.
    
    As a friend, I'd recommend that you end the relationship.

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    MissEposted 14 years ago

    It seems like everyone is basically saying the say thing here, and I'm going to have to agree.  I would have never married a man who didn't want to have children.  There are a lot of opinions about love.  My opinion is writtien perfetly by Stephenie Meyer.  Totally weird, I know, but it's not a quote from her books, just a comment she made.
    
    "First of all, let me say that I do believe in true love. But I also deeply believe in the complexity, variety, and downright insanity of love. A lucky person loves hundreds of people in their lives, all in different ways, family love, friendship love, romantic love, all in so many shades and depths. I don't think you lose your ability—or right—to have true love by loving more than one person. In part, this is true because you never love two people the same way. Another part is that, if you're lucky, you learn to love better with practice. The bottom line is that you have to choose who you are going to commit to—that's the foundation of true love, not a lack of other options."
    
    I don't believe there is one person out there who you are "meant" to love, but I do believe that when you choose to love someone, you have to make that choice everyday for the rest of your life.  Are you willing to make the choice to love her everyday for the rest of your life even if she doesn't want children?  When your friends are having baby showers, birthday parties, father's day, etc... will you be able to sit back and say that all of the love and oppotunites that come with having children doesn't matter, because I love her.  I you can, go forward.  If not, I think you should move along.  You probably will never love someone exactly the way you love her again, but you will find love, and it may even be a deeper more meaningful love because you both love children.  Follow your feelings, and make a choice based on both how you feel and what you REALLY want.  Somethings feelings and what you really want can be conflicting.  That's one of the hard things about life I guess.  Good luck!

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    TLMinutposted 14 years ago

    My baby brother is doing this right now, his girlfriend of fourteen or so years left. They were always totally in love with each other but the baby question was always there too. They never married because of it.
    
    Now my brother is 36 and telling all of my boys to "find a girlfriend and get her pregnant as soon as you can or you'll end up like me." (I had to talk to my boys, two already have kids but the two youngest don't and shouldn't yet - to be fair he didn't tell that to my 15 year old - but then told me he will when he's 16!)
    
    It can be a VERY big deal if being "Dad" is a major part of you. But what would happen if you or a different wife who DOES want kids can't have them?

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20. 82

    dohn121posted 14 years ago

    Wow.  Thanks all of you for the reply!  Everyone single one of you guys gave such good advice in the matter.  This is exactly why I posted this, to get different viewpoints.  Seriously, you guys really are a blessing.
    
    @trish1048-Thank you so much for your input.  Maybe I needed to hear this (which I thought was absolutely fabulous by the way):
    
    I've learned this lesson the hard way.  Some things are so ingrained in someone that no matter whether you move the moon and the stars, the heavens and earth, that person simply cannot change.
    
    @princessa-Thank you, princessa.  Sadly, you may be right.  Her and I discussed this at length with heavy hearts by neither of us are willing to give each other up--Not for the world.
    
    @Purple Perl-Thank you for the advice.  Yes, she did mention the burden of stretch marks and losing her figure!  There is technology to cure that these days.  But she told me flat out that she doesn't want to bare children NOR raise them.  I think her decision in much more serious than I'm aware of   I may have to do a little more digging.
    
    @livewithrichard-You know, you give some of the best advice.  Perhaps opening up a summer camp is in the cards.  I thought of exactly that for years now.  I also once had hopes of coaching Pop Warner football or little league.  Thank you so much.  I'm going to have to think about this one.
    
    @torimari-Yes, thank you!  One of problems is that she doesn't want to responsibility of being a parent.  I tried quelling this attitude with the fact that I'd raise our child on my own if need be, but that would of course be wrong for the child (God, I sound like Bill Cosby).  I think this burden outweighs the burden of her giving birth...Phew, this is not easy.
    
    @prettydarkhorse-Gosh, thank you, Maita.  We're still a couple of years away from taking our vows.  I've known her for almost two years now and have witnessed her maturity first-hand.  We still have time.  The one thing that we are sure of is that we love one another, so that certainly is a beginning
    
    @lady_E-Thank you so much, Elena.  Yes, I love my niece and nephews very much and pretty soon they'll be teenagers I think that would be a good idea, however.  We should take one of them one day and just go to an amusement park.  Maybe that will strip her of her "kid-armor"
    
    @Anath-Thank you so much for that! You're one of the first that sided with my GF.  It's good to hear your thoughts from her POV.  One of the things (that I think) is that she doesn't want the responsibility whereas I welcome it.  No, I don't want to turn her into a baby factory--ones enough.  But at the same time, I really do respect her wishes in the matter.  Only she knows her heart.  Again, thank you!
    
    @flightkeeper-Yes, I was thinking just that.  Her mother ran off when she was only eleven and so she still is fighting with some demons over that.  To me, her fear of having to undergo the very same thing with her daughter or son proves that this won't be repeated!  I look at it as the perfect way to redemption.  Her compassion for others might just be the reason why we should have children.  Thank you so much for that!
    
    @manlypoetryman-I really like your take on the matter.  I see myself with regret   Regret of not having a child to pass on what I've learned in life, of not passing on my legacy, of not seeing grandchildren who will remain on this world long after I'm gone...Thank you, for that.  You really helped me see this situation clearly.
    
    @caravalhophoto-I might just have to do that   Thank you so much for your advice.  Nothing ever is easy, is it?
    
    @KCC Big Country-You just may have hit the nail on the head   Obviously, that would be the last resort.  Her and I really do love one another.  My eldest brother's wife and my eldest sister are both both undergoing in vitro, which is not cheap--b/t $13,000 and $16,000 last I checked.  They're both in their 40's and each have one child but would like another.  My family is kid-friendly...We spoil the crap out of each and everyone of them.  Rayna needs to know this.  I think the both of us need to spend some time with my niece and nephews.  We may be going back to Disney World in the Spring so who knows.  Maybe I'll get her to come along   You are a friend, KCC Big Country.  I appreciate your advice as I know that it's of the best of intentions.
    
    Thank you all of you for your advice.  I'm now seeing this from every different angle.

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       Anathposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       You are welcome.  I just understand her because I think the same about children.  I am not prepared to give up my figure or my hectic life style to become a child minder and neither would I like to bring a child to this world when I am not going to care about him.  Not everyone has maternal instincts and not having it doesn't make us a bad person, it is just a choice like any other in life.

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          EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I've never wanted children either.  Part of the reason for this is that like your GF, I too was estranged from one of my parents at a young age.  I didn't want to end up putting a child in the same position and transmitting the same issues down to another generation.  Plus I don't "gel" with children particularly (I can get on with some of them as individuals but I completely lack any urge to actually be a mother).

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    NewYorkerposted 14 years ago

    My friend made little holes in the tip of the condom each time and she ended up pregnant.. You might try that. If she's on birth control pills, MAKE her forget 2 days in a row and have sex with her. Just convince her she won't get pregnant.
    
    Yes, I know I'm advising you to lie, but you want your kid, right?
    
    Everything changes the second they're pregnant. The second you knock them up, they go crazy for kids.

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       EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Either you've got your tongue firmly wedged in your cheek... or you're giving this advice in all seriousness.  In which case, I'm sorry but it's the crappest piece of advice I've ever seen on this forum!

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    TLMinutposted 14 years ago

    Okay, NY, your profile doesn't show it but ARE YOU MY BROTHER?
    That sounds like him using sarcasm to show his true feelings but covering who he is.
    
    Besides, it isn't always true. I've known women who didn't want kids, did anyway and never should have. There are also too many women who think they want kids and then discover they never should have. Having children is a major undertaking, life changing, life-ruining for someone who doesn't want them. It's hard enough for people who love and adore children and all the issues that come with them.

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       NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Excuse me?
       
       Low life sarcasm?
       
       Show my true feelings but hiding who I really am?
       
       Care to elaborate?

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          TLMinutposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          I took the offensive word out, sorry.
          The specific words you used "knock them up" and advising lying, that's why I phrased it that way.
          
          Cover who you really are just referred to if my brother spoke that way, it would be to hide who he is because he doesn't normally talk like that. Though I've heard almost exactly this from him. That's how he feels now.

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             NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Well, I have no idea if I'm your brother, I do have an older brother, and you might well be him.
             
             And the lying part was just a joke. It's a well known fact that married couples and those who are in serious relationship often end up with lying a lot to each other.
             
             No serious advice going on there. Except the part with making holes in the tip of the condom.

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    TLMinutposted 14 years ago

    Do you have an older sister?
    
    Married couples lying to each other a lot is a well-known fact? Horrible thought to contemplate.
    
    I'm worried about the idea of someone getting pregnant when they are so adamantly against it, I've seen too many of those and it's not what a child needs - a reluctant, resentful parent. And for the OP, not having children when kids are such a big part of his life and identity sounds like a recipe for disaster.

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       NewYorkerposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Yes, I have an older sister. Are you a Los Angeles Police Officer? If so, you are my sister.
       
       You're right. You're absolutely right. I didn't think of this part. I'm supposed to be a mental health professional but I can't give out advice on an Internet forum, lol.

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