Is Conspiracy Theory reading a hobby for you, or a search for Facts?

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   Specialkizzaposted 14 years ago

   I ask this question to all readers and myself. I ask that everyone who frequents this topic to please reply. Feel free to elaborate and converse. Thank You.
   
   Its both for me. I can't remember when I felt more passionate about something. I'm from NYC and a vet, so these theories, especially 911 really hit home for me. It all started when someone gave me a copy of the 911 conspiracy theory documentary "loose change". I recall people saying that 911 was strange from day one. Then a hush fell upon mainstream media. Then they couldn't hold back the barrage and nothing has been proven till this day. Just theories. No Oli North type outcome. I forgot what he did. I see he has a couple of T.V. shows or specials, saw some of one today. I just recently started following the whole conspiracy theory buzz. I might even be getting addicted. There are so many. The Illuminati to me takes the cake. The History channel and educational channels like that is what I usually watched anyway, now they are flooded with theories of this and that. You rarely heard of most of them years ago. And boom! Here they are. As much as you can handle. Why? It makes you keep asking because there are so many, and they intertwine. I try to break it down to a simple premise. I'll leave with this. Why?

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      Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      My contact with conspiracy theories is pretty much confined to the HubPages forums and Hubs. I get my information from a variety of published sources that follow journalistic standards and ethics such as verifying the information in their articles before publication.

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         Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Thanks Mr. Deeds. Care to share some of your published sources that feature some of these topics.

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            Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I,ve read the NY Times nearly every day since 1955 or thereabouts. Others: The Nation, Harpers, The NY Review of Books,Washington Spectator, Wall Street Journal, Detroit News and Free Press, Science Times, MetroTimes, Mother Jones, Slate, Huffington Post, Common Dreams.com, Lew Rockwell.com and others. I'm mostly retired and have plenty of time to read. I'm not a fan of conspiracy theories.

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         EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Have you ever read what Noam Chomsky has to say about the mainstream media (even the quality media)?
         
         http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?ti … anda_Model
         
         and (longer):
         
         http://www.medialens.org/articles/the_a … omsky.html*
         
         The weird thing is that while I disagree with many of Prof. Chomsky's political views (his left-wing bias stops him from seeing the full picture), I think in a lot of ways, he's spot on with regards to the media.  Certainly the British media anyway.
         
         
         
         *"Yet Chomsky's whole point-as is well-known to all who have read his books-is that thought control in democratic societies does not happen through totalitarian, Big Brother-style mechanisms but is the result of a filtering process empowered by economic and political power operating in a free market system - there is no design, no conspiracy. Through a complex and subtle process, certain ideas and ways of looking at the world are promoted and come to find their way into our heads. This is a sort of negative thought control - we are controlled as much by what is not there, as by what is. It is not that we are prevented from choosing business-unfriendly facts and ideas, we just never encounter them and so assume they do not exist. Children are not forced to choose from a wide range of careers within the one corporate system; they are not deliberately brainwashed into believing that this is freedom. They are convinced that they are making a free choice because society functions in such a way that they are unaware of alternatives. Moreover, they are unaware that they are unaware, so that the options confronting them seem to be 'just how life is'. As Chomsky has pointed out many times, this is way beyond Orwell, who wrote about crude, Soviet-style propaganda and whose understanding of the possibilities of non-conspiratorial, democratic thought control was limited in the extreme."
         
         and
         
         "What Marr "doesn't get" is that the propaganda model does not depend on self-censorship, but on a system of filtering maintained by the ability of power to introduce bias by marginalizing alternatives, providing incentives to conform and costs for failure to conform, and by the innate human tendency to rationalize inconsistencies."

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            saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I was trying to ask this question in forum a while ago, but maybe I worded it incorrectly... the use of the psychiatric and military for what you might call programming, but programming of the masses, not just a few.
            
            Or maybe it is when you step out of the norm that you learn a few things and take a step or two back and practise your breathing ... so you dont beleive everything thats in front of you.

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               EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               The thing that made me stop believing everything that was put in front of me was 911.  The follow-up to that - the push for war in Iraq - was just *too* glib. 
               
               I don't think we'll ever get to the bottom of whether 911 was an inside job.  To be honest, I think it's pointless to speculate about it.  But I was very suspicious about the way it was used to to get people to support war in the Middle East.

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         mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Do you find the need to cross-reference the sources you currently access, Mr. Deeds? Or do extra fact-checking?
         
         I'm just wondering because I'm pretty wary of most common news sources.

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      Dog On A Missionposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I research facts that interest me.
      
      I have a particular interest in the emerging police state in my country (Britain) and the march towards totalitarianism around the world.
      
      So yes, I subscribe to the Infowars channel on youtube!

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   aka-djposted 14 years ago

   Neither a hobby, nor a search. I just find it fascinating, especially in light of Biblical Prophecy and Eschatology. This opens the door to countless conjectures and theories. I listen to all, absorb as much as possible and try to make the connection(s).
   But, ultimately, I wait and see, how it pans out.
   I have many thoughts of my own, but I am mostly discuss it with close confidants.
   As long as we have secrecy, politics, commerce etc, there will be conspiracies, (real and imagined). Not to mention propaganda and misinformation.
   Its all entertaining in the very least. I'm not at all surprised you are getting addicted.

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      Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks aka. I think my addiction stems from the connections I have made based on personal experience. I used to do puzzles with my grandma when I was kid. I was on the Math and Academic challenge teams in junior high and HS, and specialized in the logic questions. Like when they would feed you a long question and the answer would be like 1 or 2.
      I'm hooked.

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   wrenfrost56posted 14 years ago

   I do enjoy indulging in the odd conspiracy theory from time to time, partly because they are so fascinating, partly just out of curiosity and part fun. However most of the time I have to say they usually leave me with more questions then answers.

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      Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks wren. They are truely fun! Do most of your questions start with how or why?

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   IzzyMposted 14 years ago

   If I even heard the words 'Conspiracy Theory' I'd mentally switch off, until I read 'The True Story of the Bilderberg Group' by Daniel Estulin.
   Now I'm ready to question the reality and truth of any and every news story, including 9/11.

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      Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      There was a tv special on that group as well. The ol' follow the money approach. I haven't studied Bilderberg enough. Thanks for the reminder.

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   Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago

   Has anyone else thought of this:
   
   We all know that the earthquake in Chile actually changed the position of the worlds axis affecting time.
   
   What did the bombing of the moon do to the axis of the moon?
   
   Did the gravitational pull of the moon change after being bombed?
   
   If it did could the change in the moon have any effect on earthquakes on this planet?

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      Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Arthur, you may have just started another conspiracy theory! We'll have to call you "moonbeam!" :-)

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         Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I think its a good one too.  I still am unsure exactly why we declared war on the moon.   To find water?  to what ends?

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            Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Ummm....when did we bomb the moon?

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               Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

               Last June.
               
               http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic … on-2009-06

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                  Kathryn LJposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                  Wow, I missed that one.  Didn't have TV at the time but even so.........  What else have I missed?  My sister keeps banging on about the end of the world in 2012, is there a link I wonder?

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      Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      The fact that people who watch the news or follow current events missed this says alot. I didn't hear about this. Understandable. Thanks Arthur.

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      Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      I wouldn't call it a BOMB! It was more like a high speed projectile traveling fast enough to punch a hole in the bottom of a moon crater. Why use the word bomb?

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         Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2009/10/0 … 11038.html
         
         Because the headlines say "NASA to Bomb the moon"

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            Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            I read an article about it, and they used the word Bomb. I'm just saying, in my opinion the word bomb, did not, and should not have been used to describe what was done on the moon. How will young people associate the two, even if it was a search for water. I'll tell you what the association might be. Its okay to bomb the moon, so what else is acceptable to do. Just my opinion. Strange choice of words in todays sensitive society.

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      mythbusterposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Have you looked for the information you seek? Or did these questions just recently start coming to you?

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         Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         I only thought of it after hearing that the earthquake in Chile changed the position of the earths poles.  I wonder how big was the explosion on the moon as compared to the earthquake?

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      saltposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      interesting...

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   Mikel G Robertsposted 14 years ago

   Well that link pretty much says why they did it and to what ends...
   
   what were you trying to find out?
   
   {and it was in Oct. according to that article??}

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      Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Yeah it was in October Mikel.
      
      They bombed the south pole of the moon.  Did it change the axis of the moon?  What effect would that have on the planet earth?  Different gravitational pulls on our planet could change everything.

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         Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Maybe you should start a thread about this. The history and science channels are full of shows about changes in the earth and our galaxy that have only recently been detected with the new technology.

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   Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago

   I've just finished this book called the Shadow Elite. It taught me that before I listen to a pundit or expert from either the left, right or center, I have to know their complete resume and funding sources - as well as their spouses.
   
   The tangled web of influence in this society is at all levels. Like Ralph Deeds, I get my news and info from a variety of sources. None of which I trust anymore.
   
   Even book reviews are influenced by the parent company that owns the newspaper and the publishing company. Jeesh is nothing what it seems!
   
   So I guess Conspiracy Theories are a way of life for me.

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      Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Nelle.

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   Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years ago

   Conspiracy theories are interesting and a form of entertainment. Do I take them seriously? No, not really. After all, I'm Schizophrenic and have enough trouble separating the conspiracy theories in my head from reality.

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      Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

      Thanks Pani. Are you saying these theories hold a place in your subconcious? I think thats a hook for some people. They are fun and thought provoking. They are usually presented with a serious tone, which grabs you, especially if you're  skits like us. I have not been diagnosed with any mental issues, but I'm sure I've obtained some.

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         Pani Midnyte Odinposted 14 years agoin reply to this

         Actually, I'm saying I make up my own conspiracy theories Yes, the serious tone certainly grabs at you. And they are definitely fun to think about.

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            Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

            Oh, I think most of us do that.

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   manlypoetrymanposted 14 years ago

   On 9-11...I tend to think that where there is smoke there is fire. I would like to believe that it happened just as the media said it did. So, we can blame it all on Osama. I have read from both sides: the proof side that can state this is how it happened and the conspiracy question side. Personally thinking, I tend to think that the chances of such a full scale attack happening exactly like it did...when it did...with the degree of success that they were able to bring down both Towers...and hit our Pentagon...with out no response from us....Is stacking the odds way high in the favor of our enemy...but that's the first thought that comes to my mind. In other words...why was 9-11 so successful...that makes me suspicious...from the "get-go"!
   
   However, there was the famous variable known as the passengers of Flight 93...They sure decreased the success of the full scale attack. (God Bless those of Flight 93...and the families and friends that now miss loved ones because of this horrid event i.e.: All the Victims of 9-11)
   
   Here are questions off the top of my head...that I feel haven't been answered fully:
   
   1.Why did WTC # 7 fall down exactly like the Towers did exactly when they were ready for it to come down?
   2.Were the Towers scheduled to have asbestos removed or weren't they..."Yes" or "No"?
   3. Was our Military on stand-by on practice drills on this day...and if that is a coincindence...then what is the probabilty rate for such a coincindence occurring?
   4. Is there any truth to the fact that firemen heard explosions coming from the basement before one of the Towers fell?
   5. Is the hole in the Pentagon an exact result of a passenger plane crashing into it...and is the debris field also equal to that fact...to make such a conclusion? (because I've seen this question asked over and over again...without it ever going away).
   
   These are a few questions...right off the top of my head...that come to mind in regards to 9-11. With the correct complete answers to these questions....Suffice it to say...I wouldn't have these questions anymore...up in the air. Can anyone give complete and accurate explanations for these 5 questions...?

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    Arthur Fontesposted 14 years ago

    manlypoetryman
    
    I also have another question concerning Flight 93.
    
    Was there technology available in 2001 that would allow passengers to use their cell phones while in flight?

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       manlypoetrymanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Arthur: You're right...I've heard that one come up recently as well...good question. Who can give accurate reply "for" or "against" the cell phone technology capabilities of Sept. 2001? Another good question!...??

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          Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Seems like the answer to this question would be easy to find. Try asking a pilot, air traffic controller, flight attendant.

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             Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             http://physics911.net/cellphoneflight93
             
             I do not know the validity of these claims.

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    Alya roseposted 14 years ago

    9/11 at times does seem strange even before the black box was said to have been recovered in the dead of night....but personally when I think on it it could go both ways.

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    SparklingJewelposted 14 years ago

    conspiracy theory, fact or fiction...? How can any one person know about most things, because most things are only the perspective of the reader or the writer, an accumulation of their individual life experiences, cultural experiences, genetics, etc...
    even scientists know that their deductions are truly only theory, and after you have studied the mysteries of the worlds original religions and oldest philosophies, etc. you would see even more clearly how minute of a perspective we have on our perceived "human reality"

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    Specialkizzaposted 14 years ago

    Thanks SparklingJewel.

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    JeanMeriamposted 14 years ago

    I do some reading and it's a bit of both. Some make sense and some seem to really be stretching it.
    
    I take most of them with a grain of salt though as I have found many have just as much of an agenda as the people and organisations they hold their theories about.
    
    Info Wars would have to be one of the worst of them. They seem to want to incite anger and hatred where there is nothing and no intelligence is allowed. They want their readers to perceive things they want it perceived. Who knows why? I guess it keeps them popular. Months ago they had a post about the Toronto police searching 6000 homes for evidence of a missing girl. Oh my the police state coming to Canada. And yes they had it half right. The police announced they were going to search 6000 homes in the apartment area and houses where the girl disappeared. The police then gave it a day or two and searched all the dumpsters in the area. Fairly obvious what the police tactic was. I tried to post a forum post of what actually happened, but it was declined. I now have no trust for that site. I think there are enough things in the world going wrong without inciting anger with half-truths. That kind of garbage just takes away from the real problems.

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    Divas4Truthposted 14 years ago

    I first started researching conspiracy theories because my boyfriend at the time was into them.  It was really hard to deal with the truth in them and I found myself wanting to shut my ears off.  Any time that I took a break, I found myself coming back because they are so interesting.  So in a way, truth-seeking is a hobby while still being a search for the facts for me.  Plus, some of the things people say are out there and it can be really fun to see what new ideas they come up with. I couldn't imagine living my life as a "sheep" and believing everything that is spoon-fed to me by the media.

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       Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks for the response. Most people admit to a sense of enjoyment.

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    andromidaposted 14 years ago

    Conspiracy theory sometimes give many clues what might happen in future. More or less, it helps to learn about how real bad people can be-develops kind of awareness.I never thought incident like 911 might be considered as a conspiracy theory,but when i learned about operation Northwoods then i realized how real bad people can be.

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    thisisoliposted 14 years ago

    I sometimes read up on them as a hobby, I find the 9/11 conspiracies particularly interesting. However I wouldn't say I was looking for the truth, there is too much cloudiness in any conspiracy to really know what the actual truth is.

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       Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Aint that the truth.

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    Nelle Hoxieposted 14 years ago

    I'm actually spending this year reading all about conspiracy theories - large and small. Anything can become a conspiracy it seems. No matter how much information is out there, one little crust of of missing data, becomes a government coverup and the tip of an iceberg to a massive plot to destroy the American way of life.
    
    If I start to have trouble sleeping, I'll need to stop. I can see where some people would.
    
    Feel free to recommend some books.

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       Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       The Unseen Hand   A. Ralph Epperson
       
       
       And the Truth Shall Set You Free: The 21st Century Edition by David Icke
       
       
       Both excellent and thought provoking books.

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       Specialkizzaposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Take it easy Nelle Hoxie. I guess you already know how it feels to get stuck on a puzzle. I get more stuck on motives. I recommend books about quantum physics, psychology, neurology, hypnotism, and ancient history. Books that give the history of these topics are what I seek. I wouldn't recommned reading too many opinions. I live in real rural america. Charlotte is about 2 hours away.  The libraries are not nearly large enough. Their books are new, and so on.

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       EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'd try two of Antony Sutton's books (Wall Street and the Bolshevik Revolution and Wall Street and the Rise of Hitler - the titles should give you an idea of the subject matter LOL). Best of all, they're in various places on the Internet, for free.
       
       He also wrote other, more woo-woo, stuff about the Skull & Bones but I wasn't impressed with that - you were expected to take far too much on trust.

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       sannyasinmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       Try
       
       "The Global Conspiracy (and how to end it)" by David Icke
       
       It's all in there, and its all well researched.

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          EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          Aaaargh, I hate David Icke.  From what I've read about him on the web, it seems that he's mixed some quite plausible beliefs (global elite wanting more control over everything) with some out-and-out gibberish (what's up with those stupid alien lizards?) to form a really strange philosophy - one that most people will automatically dismiss without attempting to sort the wheat from the chaff, leaving him with a hardcore of devotees who will always remain a minority.

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             sannyasinmanposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             But have you actually READ the book?
             
             Please don't shoot the messenger before you read the message. If you read the book and then decide that you don't want to believe what it says, that's fine. But read it first.
             
             It is challenging stuff, but if you read the book with an open mind, it is quite likely that you will never see the world in the same way again, even if you don't accept everything he says.

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                EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                Admittedly no, I haven't read the book - just a few bits and pieces from Icke's web site and comments from Amazon readers.  I have to admit I'm having a hard time getting past the lizards LOL.

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                   Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   "And The Truth Shall Set you Free" 
                   
                   No lizards LOL.
                   
                   Just a different view of history.

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       Ralph Deedsposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       I'm currently reading "The Israel Lobby and U.S. Foreign Policy" by John J. Mearsheimer and Stephen M. Walt. It's a very interesting book. They assign a greater role to the Israel lobby as a significant cause of Bush's decision to invade Iraq than I previously believed.

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    saltposted 14 years ago

    It would seem there is a grain of truth in many aspects of conspiracy theories, ... the left newspapers are generally good for news we dont get in the mainstream for about 6 months. Yet, when you find real information that does not fit the left and right them against us profile, even the left doesnt print it.
    
    The american free press are good and interesting, their shots of a plane in 911 with missiles attached was intriguing. Were the photos real?
    
    I met a couple of american military in Byron Bay of all places in Australia and one told me about the videos from the pentagon crash being removed and how from his training the damage was that of a missile not a plane.
    
    The next question to ask or look for feasible answers, as I dont know the truth about the above, ... but I know if you ask enough questions eventually you get an idea of what might be happening...
    
    So, the next set of questions are to ask who are behind our governments? Who do we really work for? Who do our politicians really work for? Are they our representatives, or actors on a stage to make sure we never see the stage manager.

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    Jonathan Jancoposted 14 years ago

    As a fiction writer, I find conspiracy theories very helpful for obtaining material

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    sannyasinmanposted 14 years ago

    Almost everyone who laughs and ridicules David Icke has never read any of his books. Its all based on hearsay and snippets taken out of context.
    
    Why not be brave, read the book, and then make up your own mind, instead of following the jeering crowd of sheeples? 
    
    Then, if you disagree, you at least have a valid reason.
    
    David Icke of all people would respect your right to have a different opinion, and to be allowed to voice that opinion, without being personally ridiculed, attacked, or made fun of.
    
    It is what used to be known as Freedom of Expression, and it is being eroded more each day, all around the world. If you read the book you will understand why.

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       EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

       From Wikipedia:
       
       "According to British writer David Icke, 5 to 12-foot (1.5 - 3.7 m) tall, blood-drinking, shape-shifting reptilian humanoids from the Alpha Draconis star system, now hiding in underground bases in Hollow Earth, are the force behind a worldwide conspiracy directed at humanity.  He claims that the reptilians maintain their control through the generation of fear and negative emotion, which is food to these entities, by manufacturing conflicts, primarily wars. He contends that most of the world's leaders are in fact related to these reptilians.  Icke's theories now have supporters in 47 countries and he frequently gives lectures to crowds of 2,500 or more.  American writer Vicki Santillano ranked the notion that "Reptilian humanoids control all of us" as the 10th most popular conspiracy theory."
       
       Assuming the above is an accurate representation of Icke's views, I'd like to pose a question to you and Arthur: do you believe this?

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          Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

          
          
          Absolutely not.  I have read Icke's lizard books and find them entertaining but that is all.
          
          I do enjoy reading different views of history.
          Epperson "The Unseen Hand" is one of the best.
          
          A History of the American People
          ~ Paul M. Johnson

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             EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

             Phew - my initial impression of you as a rational person has remained intact.
             
             OK, so I've got to ask this: why do you think that Icke would conflate a plausible albeit unproven belief (global elite attempting control of the masses) with a totally loony-tunes one, i.e. alien shape shifting lizards living in underground bunkers?
             
             
             
             
             I'll check these out - thanks.

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                Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                EmpressFelicity
                
                The Icke book I recommended is well sourced for facts.  I have also checked out some of the statements in the book through other sources.

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                   EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                   Yeah, but you haven't answered my question.  Why the lizards?  I mean, why tack an extremely way-out-there belief onto his other, more plausible stuff?
                   
                   Unless I'm reading too much into it and the man's just bonkers.

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                      Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                      
                      
                      I think it must have started with following the bloodlines of world leaders.  It seems you can do a six degrees of seperation thing that would tie all leaders to the same bloodline.
                      
                      ex, Obama is cousins with Bush and Cheney.
                      
                      http://www.factcheck.org/askfactcheck/a … usins.html

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                         EmpressFelicityposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                         Yeah, but... you only need to go back about 400 years and you find that we're pretty much all related to each other. 
                         
                         It's why the idea of finding one's genealogy does my head in - I mean, why bother?

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                            Arthur Fontesposted 14 years agoin reply to this

                            I know it seems silly.  The book is still an entertaining read.
                            
                            Kind of like the movie "The Matrix" which Icke also alludes to.

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    sannyasinmanposted 14 years ago

    David Icke is not a novelist. His books are not entertainment. He has been researching the truth and reality behind what we are “told to believe” for over 20 years. He has written many books revealing his well documented research; he quotes many, many witness accounts. He quotes many other writers, and historical and official documents which support his findings. Its all in the book read it!! Most, if not all, of the so called “conspiracy theories” are dealt with in over 600 pages.
    
    A lot of what he says is hard to accept. I myself had a completely closed mind to all of this until a few years ago. I too rejected it all completely. Now I think differently. There is just too much evidence and too much consistency in what is happening all around the world for it to be coincidence.  And if you can keep an open mind, what he says makes sense.
    
    Most people hear about the blood drinking reptilians, laugh out loud, and subsequently dismiss everything he says as rubbish. I keep an open mind about this aspect of what he says, although he provides many witnesses who support this.  He writes about this simply because this is what he has found in his research. Because he believes it is true, and he produces a lot of evidence to support it.  And he knew he would be ridiculed the world over, but he still wrote about it. In my book, that is called courage and conviction, and I respect him for it. Also, if you hear him speak, he is one of the most ordinary, down-to-earth people you will ever meet, and far more believable than any politician.
    
    Again, you might not like what he says, but he is not crazy. Read the book and refute the evidence if you can.
    "The David Icke Guide to the Global Conspiracy (and how to end it)"

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    sannyasinmanposted 14 years ago

    Oh, and a quote from the front cover:
    
    "Our society is run by insane people for insane objectives. I think we're being run by maniacs for maniacal ends and I think I'm liable to be put away as insane for expressing that. That's what's insane about it" - John Lennon

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