alternate arrangement for hubbers without adsense publisher account

1. 58

   bond008posted 15 years ago

   I have an idea  for Hubpages to look into and implement if does not involve complications. More and more adsense publisher accounts are being disabled and top hubbers are being targetted. HP may come out of it unaffected if it considers to place its own publisher ID for 100% impressions for hubbers who don't have a adsense account and share earnings in 40:60 ratio. HP may find solutions for related issues like sharing profits etc. In this way hubbers without adsense a/c may earn same amount of money. Even in existing arrangements HP shares a/c with individual hubbers. HP may pay hubbers  thru paypal etc as being done by squidoo. In this way HP may avoid the loss it has to incur due to shift of top hubbers from hubpages because today or tomorrow these hubbers will shift their hubs to some other sites.

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   1. 0

      terrygposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      You've been here for four weeks and have two hubs. When you come to realise that you will not make money here or get traffic to your hub you will leave just like everyone else has.

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      1. 58

         bond008posted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Dear terry, keep an eye how much traffic is attracted by my hubs. Yesterday I have published my two hubs and look at my hub and hubber score.

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         1. 0

            terrygposted 15 years agoin reply to this

            Exactly what I just said.

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2. 63

   Mishaposted 15 years ago

   not interested

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   1. 58

      patnamohanposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      why you say like this??

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      1. 63

         Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

         Because I am not interested in any form of redistributing money. It is a sure way to corruption and failure. I don't want this happen to Hubpages.
         
         All my life experience tells me the current system is the best possible, and I am interested in Hubpages sticking to it

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3. 85

   Rik Ravadoposted 15 years ago

   Surely accounts are disabled for a reason - why should HubPages take on the risk of itself being banned from AdSense? The reason why we each have our own AdSense account is so we are responsible individually for what we write and obeying the terms of use etc.
   
   Therefore I'm with Misha.

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   1. 60

      sukkranposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      yes you are correct, i am also with Misha
      sukkran

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4. 58

   bond008posted 15 years ago

   Are you so selfish? This may help hubbers who don't have publisher a/c and for HP to protect its interests in long run. This suggestion is not for your consideration. Thanks for "not interested" stand.

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5. 72

   relacheposted 15 years ago

   In the last two years, HubPages has made it pretty clear that they don't want to have to administrate earnings and payouts, so it's highly unlikely they are going to change the system they are running.
   
   Especially since HubPages runs on a staff of about three (according to Maddie).

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6. 63

   rancidTasteposted 15 years ago

   I think its not a constructive idea.

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7. 83

   jimmythejockposted 15 years ago

   No way dude, why would people want to lose money? why with over 650 hubs would I want some of my share of the google earnings to go to you with only 2 hubs.
   DREAM ON

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   1. 58

      bond008posted 15 years agoin reply to this

      It appears that you misunderstood me. I am not asking to share your money. I referred to hubbers who don't have an adsense A/C. Whatever they would earn its their share with HP from the income generated by their hubs and not from income from other's hubs.

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8. 73

   Maddie Ruudposted 15 years ago

   For many reasons, we're not going to switch the structure of our revenue program at this time.  As Relache pointed out above, the amount of labor involved isn't practical for our small staff.  Also, the way things are set up right now avoids disputes over earnings, and as Rik said above, it encourages users to take responsibility for their own content.
   
   Thanks for the suggestion, though.  We'll keep it in mind.

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9. 59

   EpicTreeHouseposted 15 years ago

   One thing I would like to see HubPages do though is instead of having the capstone program, have a program in which if you earned X amount for Y months straight and had Z visitors from W referal sites that you'd get N% increase in ad share for the next month.  Ultimately, this would encourage others to write more. The capstone program doesn't appeal to me, although, I understand their desire for a focus on Amazon and Ebay links as it brings them in more money.   I don't want to write multiple articles on the many parts of a particular topic.  For example, I could write 15 - 20 articles on apartments, but if I focused in and wrote about corporate apartments I'd increase my average CPC from around 20cents to around $4.00.

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      Lissieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

      Which in  nutshell is the fundamental conflict between making money and writing what you want

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10. 59

    EpicTreeHouseposted 15 years ago

    Lissie,
    
    It doesn't have to be.  I want to make money, that is my goal.  I don't care what I write about, however, I want long term money making potential.  For example, I found a keyword related to coffee that pays $5.  Why should I write an article on keywords related to coffee that are only going to pay 30 cents.  It's a waste of time for me to write 10+ articles for the $40 dollars.  Hubpages and I make more money if I target, promote, and focus on money making pages vs filler pages. That's why hubpages could use my system to reward those that write a lot and those that earn a lot.  Obviously, the details aren't completely flushed out yet, but potentially there could be a cap on it saying you can't have more than X% payout if you haven't published Y articles.  I think this system would reward those that are earning hubpages a lot of money and promote the making of money instead of the making of filler hubs, which aren't as profitable for hubpages.

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11. 79

    Uninvited Writerposted 15 years ago

    I like it the way it is now. I want to earn on my content, not on what I wrote before or what keywords I have to use to make the most money. That's how some of us differ...I care about what I write about. I understand using keywords and I do, but that is never going to be the complete basis of my writing. Yes, I may earn less that someone else but at least I will have writing that I will be proud of.

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12. 59

    EpicTreeHouseposted 15 years ago

    Like I said it before you wouldn't be adversely affected.  For example, if you continue to write the way you do, you can be proud of your writing and perhaps you would earn a little extra.  The basic idea is to provide a program that rewards those that write a lot or earn a lot.  You could have a multiplier and basically do something like...
    
    If you've been a member for at least three months and published X articles, with this months income being greater than than your three month average and an increase in traffic by Y% then you get a certain percentage bump the following month based on the previous stats.  If you didn't hit it then you don't get the percentage bump.  So anyone who doesn't necessarily qualify doesn't loose money, but those who do get a bump.  This would be more advantageous to those of us who do publish with a focus on money or to those who are working to improve their hub pages and Google rankings.
    
    So essentially, Uninvited Writer you would be unaffected, but others would be more inclined to write to make more money, which ultimately puts more money in hub pages pockets.  They can still keep the capstone program in place to encourage the creation of 'hub webs' that cross link each other.

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13. STAFF

    pauldeedsposted 15 years ago

    Our goal is always to give more back to the authors that contribute to HubPages -- but we must also consider the administrative cost of making direct payments or giving different authors different impression shares.  There is a certain simplicity and fairness to everyone getting the same 60%.  So far, we've chosen to keep that the same, and invest most of our energy into improving the site.   But that doesn't mean we won't change the payout system at some point in the future.

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    1. 80

       sunstreeksposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Paul, or Maddie, or anyone else on hubpages team. I have a question. Some background first. When I was writing at Epinions.com, in the beginning the payout was fabulous.. 10 to 15 cents per page view.. Then it changed to pennies per page view, it didn't bring home the bacon, but it was nice. Then they threw out paying per page view and it became some secret formula that changed earnings from substancial, to absurd. My residual earnings there now are under a buck a month, I just cashed out for under $11 and my last previos cash out was back in nov 2007 despite writing 170+ reviews and articles there and have 180,000+ page views. Soooo...
       
       What are the chances Hubpages would ever change the earnings ratio for the payout system of to negatively affect good hubbers?

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       1. STAFF

          pauldeedsposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Our current system couldn't be more fair -- you earn 60% of what your hubs earn.  A system that is based on a traffic source and location, and subject matter measurement, no matter how sophisticated the analysis gets, will never be as equitable.
          
          If we ever did convert to a model where we collect all the revenue and then pay it out to authors, the total pool of dollars paid out would most likely be a bit larger than under the current system (since we'd be at higher tiers for ebay and amazon, and might be able to negotiate favorable terms with other advertisers), but no matter how hard we tried to be fair there would be winners and losers, and people that thought they were winning or losing even if they weren't.  For that reason, I don't think we'd make a switch like that unless we could grow the pool significantly at the same time, so that there were mostly winners.

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          1. 80

             sunstreeksposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Thanks Paul for responding. Personally, I prefer the way it is now, but I'm game for anything as long as my earnings vs. hubpages earnings for my written content is fair.
             
             I agree that for hosting, maintaining the site, killer PR, and everything else Hubpages offers to the hubber, that 40% of the impressions is more then fair for Hubpages to keep in the company, and 60% to me for creating the content .
             
             Thanks for giving me a bit of confidence that hubpages will not change the system unless it is still profitably beneficial for the hubber.

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             1. 59

                EpicTreeHouseposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                SunStreeks,
                
                I want to add a bit of reassurance.  The reason why I think other sites changed their payout system was because they had an unsustainable business model. They were paying 10-15 cents a pageview, but this wasn't how much they were making so they had to cut it down some.
                
                Now, obviously, Paul isn't open to the idea at all.  If he was then he'd realise he doesn't have to redo the system.  All he has to do is display the ads more frequently for major publishers....say...
                
                If you have 20 hubs and a score of 80+ 62%
                If you have 100 hubs and score of 85+ 67%
                If you have 200 hubs and a score of 90+ and X amounts of hits 75%
                If you have 300 hubs and a score of 95+ and Y amounts of hits and Z traffic 85%
                If you ahve 350 Hhubs and a score of 95+ and y amounts of traffic and w traffic 90%
                
                You could also include forum posts, but I see that as a more social aspect of it than anything else.
                
                You would never get less than 60%, but this would help promote those that are involved.

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                   Mark Knowlesposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                   Sounds like a recipe for multiple arguments to me. The current system is nice and simple. And it is easy enough to check for yourself.
                   
                   Plus - it gives hubpages a strong incentive to do their best to promote themselves and also to do the best job possible of optimizing the ads.
                   
                   10% ? Maybe not such an incentive. Plus it gives them an incentive to keep the bigger publishers hubscore down. Think of the wonderful arguments we could have
                   
                   Look through the forum threads. There are more than enough people who do not believe they are getting a fair crack of the whip already. And feel their hubberscore is artificially kept low. Imagine if you had 3 days at 62%, a week at 67%, ten days at 75% and the rest of the month at 60%? How on earth would anyone be able to keep track of things?
                   
                   Doesn't have to redo the system At best they would have to employ a new staff member just to deal with the arguments.

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                   1. 59

                      EpicTreeHouseposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                      Mark,
                      
                      To answer some of your questions.  Your percentage would be set at the beginning of the month and then you'd be set at that for the whole month, with a new percentage at the beginning of each month.  All they would have to change is the the weight on the random function they are using to display ads. Those that thought they weren't being treated fair would leave.  That's not such a bad thing, less complainers around.  I don't foresee any additional administrative costs that would require hiring another person.  This system would also replace the capstone system or offered in addition to it.  If it replaced it, I bet it would cut down on administrative costs. 
                      
                      Marisa Wright,
                      
                      I agree I don't think there should be administratively made decision's on payouts.  It should be kept to a formula that can be verified and tracked.  This would be a rather simple formula that would set your weight in the random function they were using.  There would be no argument as you should be able to independently be able to verify the numbers.

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    2. 58

       bond008posted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Thanks paul, I appreciate your response. Nothing can be changed overnight but one has to change with the time. I gave this suggestion for welfare of hubbers (without adsense A/C) and HP.  Whatever has happened to some top hubbers may happen to anyone.

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       1. 63

          Mishaposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          Now when you keep pushing this, I change my stance. Now I am firmly against your "idea". Paul and Maddie, please record my vote.

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          1. 58

             bond008posted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Neither Misa nor Bond is the authority. Ultimately HP is the final authority to decide taking into consideration all pros and cons. Thanks for vote against it.

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14. 75

    hassamposted 15 years ago

    May be direct payout by hubpages won't be very effective. I previously pointed out that people here at hubpages people mostly earn through contextual ads. So if adsense is banning accounts then hubpages can provide some alternative like: msn ads, clicksor, bidvertiser etc . There are simply many altenatives. Currently earnings through Kontera is extremely low due to their low eCPM, even the revenue capsules of Amazon and ebay don't earn a penny. So what is left for people here at hubpages?

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15. 83

    jimmythejockposted 15 years ago

    You still have Ebay Amazon and Kontera to earn from and others probably will be added by the hub team in the future, putting all of your eggs in one basket is silly, relying on Google for an income is silly as bannings are common place, I have four sources of income from this site if I lost any one of them it wouldn't be the end of the world as I know it because I would still have the other 3 sources....JIMMY

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16. 86

    Marisa Wrightposted 15 years ago

    I vote against any arrangement where HubPages has to administer the payments.
    
    For one thing, they would ultimately have to pay less, because their administrative overheads would increase.
    
    For another, we'd end up in the kind of arguments that go on at Helium and other paying sites where the formula is complicated.
    
    There are many possible revenue capsules - so far we have Adsense, Kontera, eBay and Amazon.  There are others - the best solution would be for HubPages to add more choices, which I'm sure they will do as they progress.

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17. 82

    SweetiePieposted 15 years ago

    The current system is fine the way it is.  Why change it?!

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18. 76

    Lissieposted 15 years ago

    Have you ever tried making money at Squidoo? Their method is obscure but they only distribute money AFTER expenses and favour authors with higher ranked lenses: so you have to spend all your time promoting the lenses within the community.  Which is a waste of time from an sEO point of view.
    I love HP simple transparent system.  Its not without its issues: most/all of us have our adsense accounts smartpriced and I feel sorry for those who have innocently lost their adsense accounts but otherwise its a pretty good system and Ive not seen better on the net
    
    BTW they are one of the few sites which do not discriminate against non-US authors

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       Shirley Andersonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

       Lissie, forgive my ignorance, but what is 'smartpriced'?

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       1. 76

          Lissieposted 15 years agoin reply to this

          
          If you as a publisher send a lot of clicks thru on Adsense which don't convert well for the publisher (who is paying for that click) then Google reduces the amount that they are paying you  And they don't just affect your pricing on one site but on all your sites.  Its not forever: weekly seems the likely timeframe: but I've heard stories of people getting smart priced on ONE page on e blog which takes their overall Adsense payout down by 30-40%
          
          The trouble with hubpages is that sometimes the ads aren't well optimized for your content (the well known sexy indian girls ads) - so if someone clicks thru on those on a hub for say Christmas decorations they probably won't convert as a customer and if it happens too much the whole adsense ID ie your's gets priced for the week. 
          
          I don't know for sure and no one does: this is not in the fAQ on Adsense: it just happens to be enough people who make BIG money (thousands/week) on Adsense to know that it exists.

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             Shirley Andersonposted 15 years agoin reply to this

             Okay, so they put on irrelevant ads and we suffer because of it.  Sheesh!
             
             It's good to be Google, I guess.
             
             Thx for explaining to me, Lissie, appreciate it.

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             1. 73

                Maddie Ruudposted 15 years agoin reply to this

                Fortunately, the more you get traffic, the faster Google places relevant ads on your page, so the number of people who are actually exposed to irrelevant ads, on a page that potentially could make you money, is rather small.

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19. 70

    Em Writesposted 15 years ago

    I've been on hubpages for a few weeks now and love it. It's nice to have a forum to be able to write about what I want to write about, and have people who want to read it. The whopping $11.72 that I've earned at Adsense is gravy.
    
    I'm curious, though... do we have any idea why some people are being rejected for Adsense accounts? The whole sign-up process seemed pretty straightforward to me.

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20. 58

    patnamohanposted 15 years ago

    

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