what does everyone think of Open Source?
95- mtsi1098
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some examples of Open Source are software/utilities that do not enforce funds such as OpenOffice an alternative to MS Office
some others:
gaim for IM...
songbird for MPS and music...
92- Anti-Valentine
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I use GiMP instead of Photoshop, and I'm happy with it. I've got other open source or freeware programs too.
Generally, if I can find something for free that can do everything that a paid-for product can do, then I'll go with the freeware option.
I do have some commercial products though, like Microsoft Office.I think opensource is a wonderful concept and very useful. I personally think that it is the future of software revolution. The years where source code was hidden and program flaws were shunned and took years to address them has finally ended. Now i can write a software knowing that in about a week i can possibly see my program improved by someone else and that will give me a chance to learn through it.
state institutions are using ubuntu and other linuxes as OS in france.
mysql becomes a DBMS used to store sensitive information, as reliable as oracle, for a minimum cost.
The concept of open source is wining allright.As others have mentioned, Open Source Software is by all means a viable and thriving sector of software.
It's also far more reliable and secure than the nay-sayers give it credit. For example, the leading web server software, Apache, is Open Source and has proven to be more secure out of the box than the second-leading web server software, Microsoft IIS.
One thing I especially like about Open Source Software is that it has the power to break Microsoft's veritable monopoly in the software industry. For example, in the 90s, Microsoft strong-armed Netscape out of business and nearly drove Apple out, as well. They were able to do this because their rivals at the time were also for-profit, money-based companies. Since Microsoft had more money to throw around, they won. Then came Mozilla with the Firefox browser (as Firefox) in 2004. Because Firefox was Open Source, and the Mozilla Foundation not-for-profit, Microsoft didn't have the power to strong-arm them out of existence with money like they did with Netscape and Apple. That, in turn, allowed for other browser makers, such as Opera and later Apple with Safari, to thrive again in the mainstream.
Eclipse is an open source development environment, originally designed to develop Java programs, it's also versatile enough to use for web development and other languages.
As others have mentioned, Gaim (now known as Pidgin) is a popular IM client, similar to Trillian (multi-protocol).
Here are some more for people to try (with their proprietary counterparts), that are currently available on Windows:
Open Office -> MS Office
Gimp -> Photoshop
Inkscape -> Illustrator
Mozilla Thunderbird -> Outlook
SumatraPDF -> Adobe Reader
VirtualBox -> VMWare (Virtual PC software)
VLC (VideoLAN Player) -> Windows Media Player (specifically, the video portion)
90- ledefensetech
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Cirdon wrote:
As others have mentioned, Open Source Software is by all means a viable and thriving sector of software.
It's also far more reliable and secure than the nay-sayers give it credit. For example, the leading web server software, Apache, is Open Source and has proven to be more secure out of the box than the second-leading web server software, Microsoft IIS.
One thing I especially like about Open Source Software is that it has the power to break Microsoft's veritable monopoly in the software industry. For example, in the 90s, Microsoft strong-armed Netscape out of business and nearly drove Apple out, as well. They were able to do this because their rivals at the time were also for-profit, money-based companies. Since Microsoft had more money to throw around, they won. Then came Mozilla with the Firefox browser (as Firefox) in 2004. Because Firefox was Open Source, and the Mozilla Foundation not-for-profit, Microsoft didn't have the power to strong-arm them out of existence with money like they did with Netscape and Apple. That, in turn, allowed for other browser makers, such as Opera and later Apple with Safari, to thrive again in the mainstream.
Eclipse is an open source development environment, originally designed to develop Java programs, it's also versatile enough to use for web development and other languages.
As others have mentioned, Gaim (now known as Pidgin) is a popular IM client, similar to Trillian (multi-protocol).
Here are some more for people to try (with their proprietary counterparts), that are currently available on Windows:
Open Office -> MS Office
Gimp -> Photoshop
Inkscape -> Illustrator
Mozilla Thunderbird -> Outlook
SumatraPDF -> Adobe Reader
VirtualBox -> VMWare (Virtual PC software)
VLC (VideoLAN Player) -> Windows Media Player (specifically, the video portion)Microsoft didn't strong arm anyone. More people chose to use Microsoft products than any other. Instead of complaining, Netscape should have done what they later wound up dong and created a better web browser than Microsoft. IE is still packaged with Windows but there are a lot of people, like me, who use Firefox. Apple screwed themselves by keeping all of their architecture proprietary and not opening it up like IBM did. That's why you see PC clones and not Mac clones. Because of that, economies of scale lowered the cost of PC's much more than Macs, so more people used PC's than Macs. It's all very easy to understand. That's why those companies had more money to throw around than Apple, they made stuff people actually wanted to buy and did it inexpensively.
It has to do with how useful people find things and how inexpensive things are.
93- sunforged
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...in the age of torrents, almost everything seems to have the major draw of open source ...free
But, jesting aside, big fan of the open source movements
VLC is hands down the best media player out there
I love customizing my install of Linux on the netbook
GIMP is a very sleek photo editing software (
but isnt a true alternative to photoshop!)
Open Office is fantastic and is also a tight little program on the netbook, easily a third of the size of its MS counterpart
92- Jeffrey Neal
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sunforged wrote:
...in the age of torrents, almost everything seems to have the major draw of open source ...free
But, jesting aside, big fan of the open source movements
VLC is hands down the best media player out there
I love customizing my install of Linux on the netbook
GIMP is a very sleek photo editing software (
but isnt a true alternative to photoshop!)
Open Office is fantastic and is also a tight little program on the netbook, easily a third of the size of its MS counterpartI'm using GIMP right now for a hub I'm working on, and I use OpenOffice exclusively. I have played with VLC a little also.
Have you seen this? http://portableapps.com/
I have it loaded on a thumb drive and it has OpenOffice as well as a nice collection of open source gadgets. Great for when I'm with friends trying to show them some ideas, and they don't use OpenOffice.- larry_lion
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i will like you to contact me at my mail at abiodun_oore@yahoo.com
- larry_lion
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i will like you to contact me at my mail at abiodun_oore@yahoo.com
94- GreenMathDr
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I use Open Office but I already had a copy of MS Office. Since I do a fair amount of math I prefer Open Office because they allow you to use the math symbols. I'm sure MS Office has that capability but Open Office has it right there and I don't have to search for a special option. I also use Fire Fox. Some of the others mentioned previously I was unfamiliar with but I am checking them out. In the past I have avoided these free programs bu they've come along way and they are as useful as the paid ones.
ledefensetech wrote:
Microsoft didn't strong arm anyone. More people chose to use Microsoft products than any other. Instead of complaining, Netscape should have done what they later wound up dong and created a better web browser than Microsoft. IE is still packaged with Windows but there are a lot of people, like me, who use Firefox. Apple screwed themselves by keeping all of their architecture proprietary and not opening it up like IBM did. That's why you see PC clones and not Mac clones. Because of that, economies of scale lowered the cost of PC's much more than Macs, so more people used PC's than Macs. It's all very easy to understand. That's why those companies had more money to throw around than Apple, they made stuff people actually wanted to buy and did it inexpensively.
It has to do with how useful people find things and how inexpensive things are.The US DOJ disagrees with you that Microsoft didn't strong-arm Netscape and Apple out. In fact, Sun Microsystems, AOL Time Warner, Opera, and many others have also filed antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft for their anti-competitive behavior. Internet Explorer itself was created with the sole purpose of destroying Netscape Navigator, that's also the reason that it was intricately part of the operating systems. This is also why IE stagnated with IE6 until Firefox came into the picture and became a real threat to Microsoft's browser monopoly (Microsoft didn't announce IE7 until a year after Firefox came out, when it became clear that it had a good chance at taking market share from IE).
The ruling was that Netscape couldn't compete because a) IE was already installed on all PCs (a big deal in the days of 16k modems), b) IE was unnecessarily bound to the operating system and functioned in ways that Netscape couldn't make Navigator work (Active Desktop) and couldn't be removed, and c) Microsoft required OEMs to license and install IE on all their computers that had Windows installed on them, as part of the agreement to license Windows to preinstall on computer (which the OEMs didn't have another option at this point, as Microsoft's monopoly made it a commercial necessity for OEMs to install Windows). As a web browser was and is considered a different software piece separate from the operating system, this was seen as an anti-competitive move by Microsoft, and was also seen as working to maintain the monopoly that Microsoft enjoyed. It would have been a completely different matter had Microsoft developed IE and posted it on its website as a free download, or just included it in it's "Plus!" packages, which were purchased separately from the base operating system.
Also, while Netscape Corp did start the Mozilla project and initially developed the Gecko rendering engine, they pulled out of it before Firefox was developed (Mozilla Suite is essentially a continuation of Navigator, but it should be noted that it is not built from Navigator's code or engines, Firefox was created as a response to Mozilla Suite's bloatedness and are, therefore, two totally different projects, Navigator 9 is also removed from its Navigator predecessors in that it's based off of Firefox 2, and therefore does not contain any of the original Netscape code), when Netscape was acquired by AOL. The Netscape name finally died completely when AOL filed a suit against Microsoft and part of Microsoft's settlement was to allow AOL to distribute IE royalty-free for seven years. When Time Warner took over, they officially disbanded Netscape completely. The Mozilla Foundation was launched after AOL dramatically scaled back its involvement with the Mozilla Organization (which operated separately from Netscape, even though it was a subsidiary). The Mozilla Foundation was/is its own entity.
Now, I do agree that Apple didn't do itself any favors by not opening up its architecture the way IBM did, and it did come back to bite them for most of the 90s. However, that also proved to be their strength in coming back to the market, as it provided high-quality parts that proved to be superior to IBM-clones for such things as video and animation production. That's beside the point, though. In regards to price, though, the Quadra, Centris, and Perfomis lines were actually cheaper than comparably-specced IBM clones, but were perceived to be more expensive due to poor marketing. So no doubt, Apple shot itself in the foot. However, the DOJ still ruled that Microsoft's porting of IE to Apple's OS and Sun Microsystems' OS were moved designed to keep non-IE browsers from gaining any foothold, anywhere. I do stand correct, though, that Microsoft officially strong-armed Apple out (although it should be noted that Apple did attempt to file a suit against Microsoft because Microsoft clearly modeled the Windows UI off of the Apple one, but since the original Apple design was based off an unlicensed GUI design/concept and the DOJ ruled that you can't copyright an idea, which in part why Microsoft still blantantly continues to model their UIs off of Apple's UIs).- 90
- ledefensetech
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Cirdon wrote:
The US DOJ disagrees with you that Microsoft didn't strong-arm Netscape and Apple out. In fact, Sun Microsystems, AOL Time Warner, Opera, and many others have also filed antitrust lawsuits against Microsoft for their anti-competitive behavior. Internet Explorer itself was created with the sole purpose of destroying Netscape Navigator, that's also the reason that it was intricately part of the operating systems. This is also why IE stagnated with IE6 until Firefox came into the picture and became a real threat to Microsoft's browser monopoly (Microsoft didn't announce IE7 until a year after Firefox came out, when it became clear that it had a good chance at taking market share from IE).
The ruling was that Netscape couldn't compete because a) IE was already installed on all PCs (a big deal in the days of 16k modems), b) IE was unnecessarily bound to the operating system and functioned in ways that Netscape couldn't make Navigator work (Active Desktop) and couldn't be removed, and c) Microsoft required OEMs to license and install IE on all their computers that had Windows installed on them, as part of the agreement to license Windows to preinstall on computer (which the OEMs didn't have another option at this point, as Microsoft's monopoly made it a commercial necessity for OEMs to install Windows). As a web browser was and is considered a different software piece separate from the operating system, this was seen as an anti-competitive move by Microsoft, and was also seen as working to maintain the monopoly that Microsoft enjoyed. It would have been a completely different matter had Microsoft developed IE and posted it on its website as a free download, or just included it in it's "Plus!" packages, which were purchased separately from the base operating system.
Also, while Netscape Corp did start the Mozilla project and initially developed the Gecko rendering engine, they pulled out of it before Firefox was developed (Mozilla Suite is essentially a continuation of Navigator, but it should be noted that it is not built from Navigator's code or engines, Firefox was created as a response to Mozilla Suite's bloatedness and are, therefore, two totally different projects, Navigator 9 is also removed from its Navigator predecessors in that it's based off of Firefox 2, and therefore does not contain any of the original Netscape code), when Netscape was acquired by AOL. The Netscape name finally died completely when AOL filed a suit against Microsoft and part of Microsoft's settlement was to allow AOL to distribute IE royalty-free for seven years. When Time Warner took over, they officially disbanded Netscape completely. The Mozilla Foundation was launched after AOL dramatically scaled back its involvement with the Mozilla Organization (which operated separately from Netscape, even though it was a subsidiary). The Mozilla Foundation was/is its own entity.
Now, I do agree that Apple didn't do itself any favors by not opening up its architecture the way IBM did, and it did come back to bite them for most of the 90s. However, that also proved to be their strength in coming back to the market, as it provided high-quality parts that proved to be superior to IBM-clones for such things as video and animation production. That's beside the point, though. In regards to price, though, the Quadra, Centris, and Perfomis lines were actually cheaper than comparably-specced IBM clones, but were perceived to be more expensive due to poor marketing. So no doubt, Apple shot itself in the foot. However, the DOJ still ruled that Microsoft's porting of IE to Apple's OS and Sun Microsystems' OS were moved designed to keep non-IE browsers from gaining any foothold, anywhere. I do stand correct, though, that Microsoft officially strong-armed Apple out (although it should be noted that Apple did attempt to file a suit against Microsoft because Microsoft clearly modeled the Windows UI off of the Apple one, but since the original Apple design was based off an unlicensed GUI design/concept and the DOJ ruled that you can't copyright an idea, which in part why Microsoft still blantantly continues to model their UIs off of Apple's UIs).Of course the DOJ does, but the DOJ has a very long history of using the anti-trust acts to make things worse for the average American, not better.
http://mises.org/store/Antitrust-and-Mo … -P296.aspx
http://mises.org/story/436 - 95
- mtsi1098
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Anti-Valentine wrote:
I use GiMP instead of Photoshop, and I'm happy with it. I've got other open source or freeware programs too.
Generally, if I can find something for free that can do everything that a paid-for product can do, then I'll go with the freeware option.
I do have some commercial products though, like Microsoft Office.Yes I use this myself...
- 95
- mtsi1098
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soUPERMan wrote:
I think opensource is a wonderful concept and very useful. I personally think that it is the future of software revolution. The years where source code was hidden and program flaws were shunned and took years to address them has finally ended. Now i can write a software knowing that in about a week i can possibly see my program improved by someone else and that will give me a chance to learn through it.
A similar thing happend in one of my hubs - a reader made a design improvement to a possible invention...thanks
- 95
- mtsi1098
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Cirdon wrote:
As others have mentioned, Open Source Software is by all means a viable and thriving sector of software.
It's also far more reliable and secure than the nay-sayers give it credit. For example, the leading web server software, Apache, is Open Source and has proven to be more secure out of the box than the second-leading web server software, Microsoft IIS.
One thing I especially like about Open Source Software is that it has the power to break Microsoft's veritable monopoly in the software industry. For example, in the 90s, Microsoft strong-armed Netscape out of business and nearly drove Apple out, as well. They were able to do this because their rivals at the time were also for-profit, money-based companies. Since Microsoft had more money to throw around, they won. Then came Mozilla with the Firefox browser (as Firefox) in 2004. Because Firefox was Open Source, and the Mozilla Foundation not-for-profit, Microsoft didn't have the power to strong-arm them out of existence with money like they did with Netscape and Apple. That, in turn, allowed for other browser makers, such as Opera and later Apple with Safari, to thrive again in the mainstream.
Eclipse is an open source development environment, originally designed to develop Java programs, it's also versatile enough to use for web development and other languages.
As others have mentioned, Gaim (now known as Pidgin) is a popular IM client, similar to Trillian (multi-protocol).
Here are some more for people to try (with their proprietary counterparts), that are currently available on Windows:
Open Office -> MS Office
Gimp -> Photoshop
Inkscape -> Illustrator
Mozilla Thunderbird -> Outlook
SumatraPDF -> Adobe Reader
VirtualBox -> VMWare (Virtual PC software)
VLC (VideoLAN Player) -> Windows Media Player (specifically, the video portion)good examples...thanks
- 95
- mtsi1098
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sunforged wrote:
...in the age of torrents, almost everything seems to have the major draw of open source ...free
But, jesting aside, big fan of the open source movements
VLC is hands down the best media player out there
I love customizing my install of Linux on the netbook
GIMP is a very sleek photo editing software (
but isnt a true alternative to photoshop!)
Open Office is fantastic and is also a tight little program on the netbook, easily a third of the size of its MS counterpartsongbird is a good music player...thanks
- 95
- mtsi1098
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Jeffrey Neal wrote:
sunforged wrote:
...in the age of torrents, almost everything seems to have the major draw of open source ...free
But, jesting aside, big fan of the open source movements
VLC is hands down the best media player out there
I love customizing my install of Linux on the netbook
GIMP is a very sleek photo editing software (
but isnt a true alternative to photoshop!)
Open Office is fantastic and is also a tight little program on the netbook, easily a third of the size of its MS counterpartI'm using GIMP right now for a hub I'm working on, and I use OpenOffice exclusively. I have played with VLC a little also.
Have you seen this? http://portableapps.com/
I have it loaded on a thumb drive and it has OpenOffice as well as a nice collection of open source gadgets. Great for when I'm with friends trying to show them some ideas, and they don't use OpenOffice.thanks for the link...I will check it out
ledefensetech wrote:
Of course the DOJ does, but the DOJ has a very long history of using the anti-trust acts to make things worse for the average American, not better.
http://mises.org/store/Antitrust-and-Mo … -P296.aspx
http://mises.org/story/436You might want to consider reading the case, since it seems you haven't. If you had, you would have read where a) Microsoft possesses monopoly power (80%+ market share is considered a monopoly, and at that time Microsoft enjoyed 90% market share), and b) Microsoft actually went to Netscape to try to talk them into not competing after concluding that it would "be very hard to increase browser share on the merits of IE 4 alone. It will be more important to leverage the OS asset to make people use IE instead of Navigator."
It's a textbook case of anti-competitive behavior, plain and simple, as was the case against ATI and nVidia a few months ago (who were busted for using their oligopoly for inflating prices).- 90
- ledefensetech
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Cirdon wrote:
You might want to consider reading the case, since it seems you haven't. If you had, you would have read where a) Microsoft possesses monopoly power (80%+ market share is considered a monopoly, and at that time Microsoft enjoyed 90% market share), and b) Microsoft actually went to Netscape to try to talk them into not competing after concluding that it would "be very hard to increase browser share on the merits of IE 4 alone. It will be more important to leverage the OS asset to make people use IE instead of Navigator."
It's a textbook case of anti-competitive behavior, plain and simple, as was the case against ATI and nVidia a few months ago (who were busted for using their oligopoly for inflating prices).Why bother reading the case, it's more of the same. Anti-trust has been used since the beginning of the century by the losers in a marketplace to slam the winners. If what you say is true then why has Firefox taken off? IE is still loaded with the Windows operating system, so what's the difference? At the time Microsoft was trying to be all things to all people. Remember Yahoo and the internet portal phenomenon?
What Microsoft forgot was that they were known for Operating Systems and that's their core business. Remember Windows 2000, or God help us, Windows ME? They focused on their core business in time for XP and forgot it again for Vista. By all accounts they seem to have hit it out of the park with Windows 7. There is nothing keeping people from using alternatives. That is why Microsoft is not a monopoly.
Your comparison with video card manufacturers might hold more weight if people were charged for IE or Firefox, people aren't browsers are free. You also missed the makers of computer memory, they got busted for the same practice a few years ago. That's called a cartel and they don't last very long in a free market because, well, people sue.
If IE captured 90% of the marketplace then that must mean that there were no better alternatives out there. Netscape couldn't compete and they deserved to fail.
