How much does science really know?
69- sooner than later
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I am very greatful for science. I enjoy our advances in the medical fields, engineering, technology and so on but I feel evolution science is failing. I was a firm believer for over 30 years. Many have tried to bring meat to the table a few times from both sides. What I would like to do is talk in an intillectual maner about the Creator and about Evolution. It will include biblical quotes on our side- and hopefully scientific evidence from your side.
Rules;
1. No trolls
2. No insults from either side.
3. No hit and run comments.
4. Make this one as clean and factual as possible.
5. Respect the "enemy"- we are all brothers and sisters in mankind by religion or evolution.
6. Start by apologizing to those you have insulted.
Proof God exists commences now.
73- thetruthhurts2009
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sooner than later wrote:
I am very greatful for science. I enjoy our advances in the medical fields, engineering, technology and so on but I feel evolution science is failing. I was a firm believer for over 30 years. Many have tried to bring meat to the table a few times from both sides. What I would like to do is talk in an intillectual maner about the Creator and about Evolution. It will include biblical quotes on our side- and hopefully scientific evidence from your side.
Rules;
1. No trolls
2. No insults from either side.
3. No hit and run comments.
4. Make this one as clean and factual as possible.
5. Respect the "enemy"- we are all brothers and sisters in mankind by religion or evolution.
6. Start by apologizing to those you have insulted.
Proof God exists commences now.
I hope this works.
- 69
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Rule # 6.
Cagsil, Earnest, Evolution Guy, Scott, Tantrum, Marine, Maximus, and many others that I may have offended- I apologize for taking some discussions to the bottom through insult.
If you will, please join me in this new discussion. - 69
- sooner than later
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Starting from the beginning. Earth, space and the matter within- does the big bang theory work?
I say no. I feel that while there are many arguable stances on both sides, Creation makes more sense. The issues that I have encountered contradictory to creation are; 'the amount of light years' that stars are from the earth require many years of existance for us to see them.
I agree that the stars are many more light years away than I feel the earth is old. But there is a scientific flaw about light speed that is known, but now talked about. Light speed has curvature in time vrs speed on a scientific chart. So, even our light year "facts" are extremely inacurate. Light speed is faster at the beginning, not to mention the fact that these light sorces were probably a lot closer to earth @ creation or the big boom alike.
My belief, God is a complete Creator. When He made the Garden of Eden and the Animals, they were already complete. The bird was made ready to lay the egg and the tree was made with fruit and seed. When He made the earth and the heavens and our ability to see the stars- it was made complete. 
93- Scott.Life
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I'm not really sure exactly what you're asking for here, as I believe that science and faith( I did not say religion or the church) can exist in compliment to each other as many of the scientific discoveries of the last century only increase my faith in a higher purpose or existence. Moving beyond that I don't see where this is going to solve much as whatever proofs either side believe they have will not be accepted by the other as proven by the last two weeks of forum threads. I think all of our time would be better spent living life and trying to discover our individual places and purposes rather then debating something no one will have conclusive evidence of either way until death.
Sooner there is no need to apologize to me for representing your opinion or belief I have known where you stood from the beginning and knowingly engaged you regardless, things get heated on here and people say things they shouldn't enough said. It does not detract me from my beliefs or in living my life.Religious circles embraced the idea of an expanding universe because for the universe to be expanding, then at some point in the past it had to originate from a single point, called a SINGULARITY.
The concept of the BB did not originate with Edwin Hubble but was proposed by a Catholic Monk, Georges Lemaître in 1927.
The Big Bang not only proposes a god, but it MANDATES a god who CREATED the singularity from nothing, and expanded by the graceful hand of god.
Creation means "ex nihilo" (out of nothing) and fits the Big Bang model perfectly. This is why the Catholic church was completely behind it from the get go.- 69
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Scott.Life wrote:
I'm not really sure exactly what you're asking for here, as I believe that science and faith( I did not say religion or the church) can exist in compliment to each other as many of the scientific discoveries of the last century only increase my faith in a higher purpose or existence. Moving beyond that I don't see where this is going to solve much as whatever proofs either side believe they have will not be accepted by the other as proven by the last two weeks of forum threads. I think all of our time would be better spent living life and trying to discover our individual places and purposes rather then debating something no one will have conclusive evidence of either way until death.
Sooner there is no need to apologize to me for representing your opinion or belief I have known where you stood from the beginning and knowingly engaged you regardless, things get heated on here and people say things they shouldn't enough said. It does not detract me from my beliefs or in living my life.Honestly, I am looking for a conversion. To say that nobody might change their mind would not be acurate, but who knows. I did. I knew creation science and evolution science- so for me it was a matter of evidence. Some people don't know both sides of the spectrum- I guess that is what I am looking for. I just don't know if many will look alternate evidence.
fatfist wrote:
Religious circles embraced the idea of an expanding universe because for the universe to be expanding, then at some point in the past it had to originate from a single point, called a SINGULARITY.
The concept of the BB did not originate with Edwin Hubble but was proposed by a Catholic Monk, Georges Lemaître in 1927.
The Big Bang not only proposes a god, but it MANDATES a god who CREATED the singularity from nothing, and expanded by the graceful hand of god.
Creation means "ex nihilo" (out of nothing) and fits the Big Bang model perfectly. This is why the Catholic church was completely behind it from the get go.
I've heard people interpret the singularity not as a creation of god, but as god itself.
- 69
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fatfist wrote:
Religious circles embraced the idea of an expanding universe because for the universe to be expanding, then at some point in the past it had to originate from a single point, called a SINGULARITY.
The concept of the BB did not originate with Edwin Hubble but was proposed by a Catholic Monk, Georges Lemaître in 1927.
The Big Bang not only proposes a god, but it MANDATES a god who CREATED the singularity from nothing, and expanded by the graceful hand of god.
Creation means "ex nihilo" (out of nothing) and fits the Big Bang model perfectly. This is why the Catholic church was completely behind it from the get go.
Fat fist,
I do agree with you, but the Big Bang Theory that is taught in our school systems has nothing to do with a Creator. The purpose of much science is to exclude the idea.
How God made this from nothing is beyond you, me and science.
I can think of 200 more unexplainable issues that stump scientists and believers.
Believers, aren't you glad that your God is beyond comprehesion. This is exciting really. I've never known why the Big Bang theory was seen as proof against God, seems like you said, totally compatible. But now I've read (just looked, couldn't find it, thought it was in the latest Science or Science News) that the Big Bang theory is losing ground.
Also, how are things supposed to have arisen from the primordial soup and just start reacting and being alive?
I completely disagree that our earth being perfect for human life has any relevance - we evolved the way we did according to the conditions. If conditions had been different, we would be a different form of life.sooner than later wrote:
Fat fist,
I do agree with you, but the Big Bang Theory that is taught in our school systems has nothing to do with a Creator. The purpose of much science is to exclude the idea.Yes they exclude it, but only for the sake of mixing religion & science. The BB is only supported by religious zealots from the establishment of mathematical physics. The BB is a mathematical model that is irrationally applied to the explanation of reality being created. It is shocking to see that it is taught as a "factual event" and people speak of it as matter of fact.
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fatfist wrote:
sooner than later wrote:
Fat fist,
I do agree with you, but the Big Bang Theory that is taught in our school systems has nothing to do with a Creator. The purpose of much science is to exclude the idea.Yes they exclude it, but only for the sake of mixing religion & science. The BB is only supported by religious zealots from the establishment of mathematical physics. The BB is a mathematical model that is irrationally applied to the explanation of reality being created. It is shocking to see that it is taught as a "factual event" and people speak of it as matter of fact.
Indeed. The most interesting words you said are "taught as a 'factual event'". I am not surprised by the religious institutions mentioned that hold this theory either.
Ex Nihilo does fit my perception of Gods hand for involvement. - 93
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TMinut wrote:
I've never known why the Big Bang theory was seen as proof against God, seems like you said, totally compatible. But now I've read (just looked, couldn't find it, thought it was in the latest Science or Science News) that the Big Bang theory is losing ground.
Also, how are things supposed to have arisen from the primordial soup and just start reacting and being alive?
I completely disagree that our earth being perfect for human life has any relevance - we evolved the way we did according to the conditions. If conditions had been different, we would be a different form of life.Since this conversation is lagging I will add this little bit I read last night. Physicist that were investigating the impact of asteroids on the moon and earth came across an interesting side effect. When nitrogen, carbon, and oxygen are present in rock or the atmosphere in their simplest forms and subjected to the intense heat and pressure of an impact they form basic Amino Acids on their own, but the absence of any one of these elements precludes that formation. makes you wonder?
88- Make Money
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sooner than later wrote:
Scott.Life wrote:
I'm not really sure exactly what you're asking for here, as I believe that science and faith( I did not say religion or the church) can exist in compliment to each other as many of the scientific discoveries of the last century only increase my faith in a higher purpose or existence. Moving beyond that I don't see where this is going to solve much as whatever proofs either side believe they have will not be accepted by the other as proven by the last two weeks of forum threads. I think all of our time would be better spent living life and trying to discover our individual places and purposes rather then debating something no one will have conclusive evidence of either way until death.
Sooner there is no need to apologize to me for representing your opinion or belief I have known where you stood from the beginning and knowingly engaged you regardless, things get heated on here and people say things they shouldn't enough said. It does not detract me from my beliefs or in living my life.Honestly, I am looking for a conversion. To say that nobody might change their mind would not be acurate, but who knows. I did. I knew creation science and evolution science- so for me it was a matter of evidence. Some people don't know both sides of the spectrum- I guess that is what I am looking for. I just don't know if many will look alternate evidence.
Okay I believe in God now. Who's next.
75- sneakorocksolid
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Dear liberals, gays, atheists, abortionists, petas, one world governmenters, womens rights advocates, welfare recipients, race baiters, muslums, europeans, whale kissers, grazers, tree huggers, enviromentalists, peaceniks, politically correctors, agnostics, college students and all other free thinking radicals I'm sorry you got pissed off at me. I really do love you all(at a distance) and want to be your friend!
Is that ok?- 93
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sneakorocksolid wrote:
Dear liberals, gays, atheists, abortionists, petas, one world governmenters, womens rights advocates, welfare recipients, race baiters, muslums, europeans, whale kissers, grazers, tree huggers, enviromentalists, peaceniks, politically correctors, agnostics, college students and all other free thinking radicals I'm sorry you got pissed off at me. I really do love you all(at a distance) and want to be your friend!
Is that ok?Wow that's quite a list I didn't realize how active you were in the forums Sneako, everyone is out for you.
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Scott.Life wrote:
sneakorocksolid wrote:
Dear liberals, gays, atheists, abortionists, petas, one world governmenters, womens rights advocates, welfare recipients, race baiters, muslums, europeans, whale kissers, grazers, tree huggers, enviromentalists, peaceniks, politically correctors, agnostics, college students and all other free thinking radicals I'm sorry you got pissed off at me. I really do love you all(at a distance) and want to be your friend!
Is that ok?Wow that's quite a list I didn't realize how active you were in the forums Sneako, everyone is out for you.
All that and after I started bathing weekly too!
- 93
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sneakorocksolid wrote:
Scott.Life wrote:
sneakorocksolid wrote:
Dear liberals, gays, atheists, abortionists, petas, one world governmenters, womens rights advocates, welfare recipients, race baiters, muslums, europeans, whale kissers, grazers, tree huggers, enviromentalists, peaceniks, politically correctors, agnostics, college students and all other free thinking radicals I'm sorry you got pissed off at me. I really do love you all(at a distance) and want to be your friend!
Is that ok?Wow that's quite a list I didn't realize how active you were in the forums Sneako, everyone is out for you.
All that and after I started bathing weekly too!
Well at least you're working towards a compromise then, if we can get you to twice weekly I think we can even get some of these on your list to apologize back.
- 75
- sneakorocksolid
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Scott.Life wrote:
sneakorocksolid wrote:
Scott.Life wrote:
Wow that's quite a list I didn't realize how active you were in the forums Sneako, everyone is out for you.
All that and after I started bathing weekly too!
Well at least you're working towards a compromise then, if we can get you to twice weekly I think we can even get some of these on your list to apologize back.
You really think it's that important? Is Axe a shower substitute?
- 93
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sneakorocksolid wrote:
Scott.Life wrote:
sneakorocksolid wrote:
All that and after I started bathing weekly too!Well at least you're working towards a compromise then, if we can get you to twice weekly I think we can even get some of these on your list to apologize back.
You really think it's that important? Is Axe a shower substitute?
Well the commercials say its popular with the ladies what could it hurt
