Dangerous Medical Quackery Hubs Should Be Deleted

Pseudo-medical quackery scams have been around forever...
Pseudo-medical quackery scams have been around forever...

We live in an era which prides itself on being able to state anything we want, anywhere we want, and I wholeheartedly support that policy. After all, restriction of the freedom of speech is invariably the first step towards tyranny and totalitarian oppression. As long as we can say whatever we want for or against the government, its policies, and darn near anything else we can think of, we know that we live in an open and free society.

However, there are some limits to that free speech that have clearly been upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court through the centuries. Free speech finds its legal and ethical limits in, say, promoting child pornography, supporting racist lynchings, or divulging instructions for nuclear bombmaking. After all, those are activities that are clearly deleterious to the public welfare and have no place in a modern, democratic society.

It has been often stated that First Amendment rights to freedom of speech fall short of shouting FIRE in a crowded theatre. That is the essence of the First Amendment. Say whatever you want, but make sure that what you say doesn't hurt or kill anyone else.

That is why I was absolutely gobsmacked at seeing this Hub on the list of Best Hubs with a score of 100:

MY CANCER WAS CURED FOR $35 WITH NO MEDICAL TREATMENT

I don't know the author Chuck Kinsey, and had never previously read anything he has written, so kindly spare me the accusations that I am motivated of some sort of weird vendetta. But I cannot possibly sit by as a Hubber and see this platform being utilized for such blatant violations of the First Amendment.

Yes, Mr. Kinsey, with all due respect to your personal story, I have to clearly and irrevocably state that your Hub violates First Amendment legislation as the statements included within it could possibly hurt or even kill other people.

Both I and the First Amendment have absolutely no problem with the statements that you believe that your prayer was instrumental in your cancer remission. That is a matter of personal belief and you are more than free, and welcome, in stating that your belief system is strong enough to cause such a biological miracle.

However, you have stepped waaaaaaaaaaaaay over the line with statements that you have cured your cancer with 14 peppers and 28 cloves of garlic and 14 tablespoons of cod liver oil. I'm aware that you link to another Hub by another author which outlines this procedure, and they are as guilty as you are of willfully publishing medical information that has no basis in clinical evidence. I personally believe that HubPages should not be the platform which disseminates such dangerous and even lethal medical quackery.

Your high HubScore has exposed a great number of readers who ordinarily would never have seen your Hub. Much to the chagrin of intelligent Hubbers everywhere, it is evident in a quick read of the comments that you've managed to suck in an inordinate number of otherwise sane individuals into supporting your completely medically-unsubstantiated claims.

I'm extremely happy that your cancer is in remission and wish you a long and healthy life. However, claiming that it was a habanero tincture that did it and encouraging other people who are also facing critical cancers to follow suit (possibly ignoring their physicians' advice on the real therapies which do have clinical evidence to support them) is criminal and could lead to the premature death of innocent individuals.

You have clearly stated in your Hub that you encourage this process for anyone who has cancer. As a religious individual you could save yourself from the weight on your conscience that you might lead to the death of one of your readers by deleting this Hub today.

My readers may also want to learn that Mr. Kinsey is slamming me on his Hub while deleting any comment I make there which he does not like. I have invited him repeatedly to limit his commenting onto this Hub where at least both he and I can be assured of fair treatment and not editing to make one or the other "look good." But then again, what can I possibly expect of an individual with such sorely limited intellect...

NOTE IN FEB 2010: THAT HUB HAS BEEN DELETED. THANK GOODNESS! ONE LESS QUACK PREYING ON CANCER PATIENTS WITH SNAKE OIL PSEUDO-REMEDIES!!!!!

More by this Author


Comments 121 comments

Christa Dovel profile image

Christa Dovel 7 years ago from The Rocky Mountains, North America

I have not read the particular hub you sited, but as someone who knows numerous people who have 'cured' their own cancer by herbal/dietary means, I see no problem with people sharing their stories. Cancer is a huge money maker and most people are lazy. They want someone else to take care of their problems, especially medical ones. If he is using the proper disclaimers, i.e. "These statements have not been approved by the FDA." "Consult with your doctor before proceeding with any new dietary program." etc... I do not see any reason he should not publish his story, and link to the how to's of it.

Now I am going to go read that article.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I wholeheartedly support any form of cancer treatment that is effective even in the slightest sense, but I do have a HUGE problem when people are able to promote "therapies" which have not a single shred of medical clinical evidence. It's snake oil pure and simple, which invariably acts on convincing impressionable patients into neglecting or even abandoning the approved course of treatment which can make them better and instead squander their very lives ingesting nothing but mere "natural" placebos. Disclaimers do nothing in these cases to dissuading these desperate people. I have to reiterate that IMHO, HubPages is not the platform for this kind of lethal quackery.


fortunerep profile image

fortunerep 7 years ago from North Carolina

Hal,

you should write for the New York Times or something with your own commentary, love it

dori


AEvans profile image

AEvans 7 years ago from SomeWhere Out There

I read it and have to say, I was a little shocked however that hub could be opened up for a lawsuit if someone tries it and dies. He is only providing his testimony however I find it hard to believe, in fact I don't believe it at all. He did not provide any supporting evidence that he had cancer, nor that it was diagnosed as cancer. One would think that that he would have back up docs to support his facts. :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

fortunerep: Thanks! I'd love nothing better than to write for the NYT, at least my column would displace some of the hapless hack bozos they are paying now! :)

AEvans: You're 100% correct. The liabilities that Mr. Kinsey and the other Hubbers are exposing themselves to are onerous. They could possibly face court judgments of millions of dollars. If Mr. Kinsey gets taken to the poorhouse is not so much my concern, but the liabilities that HubPages could theoretically be facing in situations such as this certainly do concern me. Some wiseass lawyer could feasibly build a case stating that HubPages through its "no interference" publishing policies allowed these lethal statements to be disseminated and shut the site down forever. Let's keep in mind that HubPages is now in the top 200 of all the websites in the USA and therefore is a HUGE TARGET for unscrupulous attorneys who want to make a name for themselves. This is a highly troubling factor that all Hubbers should be aware of.


Christa Dovel profile image

Christa Dovel 7 years ago from The Rocky Mountains, North America

I just read the article, and saw no unreasonable claims.

I have done quite a bit of study on all of the ingredients that he claims to have used, (prior to today) and all are highly recommended for a wide variety of aliments. They are far more than placebos, and there is quite a bit of proof to their usefulness in maintaining a healthy life.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Christa Dovel, I can certainly respect your viewpoint, (although I disagree with the "no unreasonable claims") but in absolutely no medical literature you will find on MedLine is there any clinical evidence of habaneros, cod liver oil, or garlic being directly responsible for cancer remission. Healthy life is one thing. Curing cancer is a whole different matter. Mr. Kinsey's hub is grievous and potentially injurious quackery.


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

So Hal according to your above statement everyone should get chemo and cnacer treatment from a physician whom relies on the pharmaceutical industry. Go HIDE, hide everything that is good--you sound like those flipped out over zealous fundies. Knowledge is power, don't you know that?

What if he is right and you are wrong--what if? So he gets some people who his treatment has not cured--doesn't make it worse for him. Everything does not work on everyone---it's all in the mind.

Leave him be and I have read his hub and all the comments that he has made as an update of his progress. I bet you haven't just by the way you put in down.

Enough said!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Lady Guinevere: I have read every word on that Hub page. I believe 100% in the scientific method and as an individual who has been published in medical peer reviewed journals I believe 100% in medical clinical peer reviewed evidence. (However, I do believe that medicine could look at therapies in a more holistic fashion while still maintaining strict clinical research standards, but that's a whole 'nother discussion.) Everything else is hogwash. And Mr. Kinsey's Hub is firmly in the hogwash category. And potentially lethal hogwash at that.


Gypsy Willow profile image

Gypsy Willow 7 years ago from Lake Tahoe Nevada USA , Wales UK and Taupo New Zealand

I agree with you Hal. There are quite few "medical" hubs that cause me to wonder. Your statement needs to be said before someone gets hurt


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Gypsy Willow, the last thing HubPages (or anyone else) would need is to get dragged through the courts because some deluded cancer patient stopped the chemo and started habanero and garlic therapy because they read it here. Not only could a very convincing case be made that the patient would still be alive if they had kept up their conventional therapy, but how could ANY of us live with the fact that our UTTER STUPIDITY cost the life of an innocent person whose only guilt was to believe our BLATHER?


Misha profile image

Misha 7 years ago from DC Area

LOL Like begets like Hal, doesn't it? Good luck fighting furious LG, but frankly you caused it yourself :D


RVDaniels profile image

RVDaniels 7 years ago from Athens, GA

I will never doubt God but I do doubt the curative power of any homeopathic medicines. They are mostly water, after all.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Misha: I might have no choice but to challenge LG to a duel on the field of onions at sunrise! :) As you well know, my friend, I've taken on the most rabid of commenters and I can usually beat them into submission with (gasp) facts. LG's POV on this issue is so outrageously new age wacky gobbledigook that I'll have as much trouble swatting it away as I would a fly. :)

RVDaniels: I also am completely firm in my belief that ultimate faith can cure anything and I have stated that Mr. Kinsey is well within his constitutional and legal rights to state that. The problem is when we get into the habanero etc. nonsense. Homeopathy IS all water, especially the higher "potencies." It just goes to prove that P.T. Barnum was right! :)


surfzen 7 years ago

Hi, It's me, Chuck,

Please let me know where you would like me to send copies of my before and after Biopsy along with my most recent blood tests. No problem. I just communicated with Mr. Don Imus' physician who is monitoring his results with the peppers too. As announced on June 6, 2009 Mr. Imus is being treated by two renowned urologists. The one I wrote is Aaron Katz MD, Columbia Presbyterian University Medical. Mr. Imus on that show told Bob Shieffer of Face the Nation that the habaneros were working well and his numbers were moving toward normal. He will have all my data. Yes even Dr. Jonas Salk who created the polio vaccine had many detractors for years. It is understandable. IMHO one day, physicians will be prescribing a capsule that will contain 350,000 scoville heat units of capsaicin blended with the equivalent of 2 garlic cloves marketed by Searle or Pfizer for a cost similar to the Flomax I am now taking that is about $600 for a 90 day supply. After my cancer disappeared he prescribed it just in case. He told me that anyone with children of adult age, who has a parent with cancer should also be on the drug per a memorandum he received this past spring...Check it out.

Let me point out that the American Cancer Society in their projections for 2009 which we are now in the 7th month, tells us that 1,500,000 American men and women will contract cancer this year and that another 500,00 already cancer victims will die before December 31, 2009. The less than 2000 people that have seen my hub page are a drop in the bucket compared to that. But guess what. Everything I have stated in my hub is true.

Long live skeptics, they keep things on the straight and narrow.

Chuck you may e mail me at chuckinsey@gmail. com anytime


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

For yours and anyone elses information:

Hal, according to HP Rules:

"Who owns the content that I post on HubPages? The content is entirely yours. We simply provide the technology to support it. You may add a Creative Commons license to your work if you feel it’s necessary."

HP is not responsible for anything incurred of any writer's work on Hubpages. So you have nothing to worry about in your little world.

You wanted to take this to your hub, but you brought it here and here is where it will be finished and so it is. I noticed that you have not approved Chuck's comment as of yet and it has been up for a bit. What's up with that?


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

New Age is in that Bible mister,

http://hubpages.com/forum/topic/16965


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

surfzen: Thank you for commenting. I appreciate your realistic and measured tone, although I do wonder why a Christian would choose zen as part of his Hub name, but that's none of my business.

I am no longer in the business of medical research, but there are countless graduate students and professional researchers that would jump at the chance of publishing some "revolutionary" findings in the field of oncology. I'm sure that Dr. Katz would be a superlative source to direct you as to the best way of utilizing your data as substantiation in a proper clinical test. Dr. Soren Lehmann's capsaicin oncological study at UCLA, my alma mater, is in culture and as of today's date no in vivo results have ever been published. There are a myriad substances which are effective in vitro but fail to have any effect at all in vivo and again, as of today's date, capsaicin falls squarely within that group. I wholeheartedly encourage research into capsaicin but at this time the prevailing medical opinion is that it is no different from any large number of substances which are believed by some to be effective against various diseases, but lack the proper medical clinical results.

You state that "everything I have stated in my hub is true." I do not deny your belief in your "truth" and I am not calling you a liar. However, I am pointing out that the "truth" you state has absolutely not one iota of clinically acceptable medical evidence at this time. It may be true at some point in the future, but then again, so could the future bring confirmation that cucumber juice cures HIV-AIDS.

Lady Guinevere: I do congratulate you. You've managed to get on my last nerve, and that's something that very few commenters have been able to achieve in over two years of online sparring here on HubPages. Am I allowed to go to lunch, or do I have to ask your permission for that? I do have a life outside of HubPages... perhaps you don't... but that's your problem.

That HubPages disclaimer is good but is no different than the one you'll find on any other pay writing site. Websites are shut down all the time due to illegal content, disclaimer or not.

New Age in the Bible, huh? OK, bring me a statement from a Vatican curia member that they support New Age theology as coherent with Christian beliefs I'll buy you your own hospital and the entire country's supply of habaneros, cod liver oil and garlic so you can CURE THE WORLD!

DUH!


Lady Guinevere profile image

Lady Guinevere 7 years ago from West Virginia

I am not going to bring you anything from any Catholic person. That is up to you to find for yourself.

I am asslo not going to debate about when you post comments or not. That is your problem, not mine.

You seem to want a fight with me, but I am not giving in. Sorry, not going to happen and It may be a good thing that I hit your last nerve..maybe it will get you to think with your brain. He doesn't have any ilegal content. Hey, maybe you should work for hubpages. Have you applied......

I don't want anything that you have to offer.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I did want to add one statement in response to surfzen's last comment on his Hub: Cancers go into remission for a wide variety of reasons in a wide variety of patients. There are many thousands of case studies in the medical literature for remission which does not have a specific "therapeutic" cause. If I started eating Tootsie Rolls and then a few weeks later went into remission, I would be expected to claim that Tootsie Rolls cure cancer, unfortunately there is at this time no clinical data to show that either Tootsie Rolls or capsaicin cure anything but hunger. Your reasoning is profoundly flawed and cannot be supported with any medical credibility.

As for Lady Guinevere, stick to the topic or I'll simply stop publishing your asinine comments. What do you have to say about the topic? I maintain surfzen's is a DANGEROUS MEDICAL QUACKERY HUB. I'll be more than happy to debate you on that subject. The rest of your ankle-biting comments are puerile and pointless.


ethel smith profile image

ethel smith 7 years ago from Kingston-Upon-Hull

The trouble is that people who are ill with life threatening illnesses get desperate. I would hate to think that something I had written was taken as a matter of fact. We all know some people who beat the odds but that does not mean everyone will. If a hub was to encourage someone to turn away from conventional treatment willy nilly it is dangerous.

Is there anything in this hub which substantiates the claims?


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

ethel smith, if you are asking whether there is anything in my Hub or in surfzen's Hub which substantiate the claims that the "tincture" does anything to cure cancer in humans, the answer is a completely resounding NO. Not even the tiniest, most insignificant shred of clinical evidence. We might as well be dealing about curing cancer with jelly beans.


lrohner profile image

lrohner 7 years ago from USA

I've seen my share of good doctors, and I've seen my share of whack-jobs. I've had treatments (not for cancer) that have worked, and others that haven't. But I would hever, ever, publish any public work touting any treatment for anything without first advising people to seek medical advice. If a cancer patient doesn't want radiation or chemo, fine. But at least by seeing a doctor they are making a truly informed choice. Good work, Hal.


Hovalis profile image

Hovalis 7 years ago from Australia

If some clinical research could be done on the claims then it would solve a lot of problems. The problem is that funding is not likely to materialise for something that will not profit the pharmacutical companies. They will not eat into their profits, where treatment will give them more money than finding a cure!

If you've never heard the story about the cure for 80% of Peptic ulcers, look it up. Two doctors proved that it was caused by a bacteria, which could be cured by antibiotics. When the proposal for the clinical studies to prove that this was the case were presented to every one of these companies, they rejected it. Why? If you were to do your sums, by finding a cure, they would all use a great deal of money in Peptic ulcer treatments. Basically, one of their biggest income streams.

The two scientists eventually found a way to prove their claim, and went on to win the Nobel Prize for medicine. But if the Pharmaceutical companies had their way none of the research would ever have got out, or it would have remained forever bogged up in red tape. Here's a timeline from our friends at Wiki:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_peptic_ul...

The thing is that the same is likely to happen for any other disease which makes these companies money. What is really needed is a third, impartial body who will do the research without the need for profit. That's not likely to happen any time soon.


Patty 7 years ago

Weizmann Institute scientists have destroyed malignant tumors in mice using a chemical that occurs naturally in garlic.

Research also shows that Capsaicin and ginger has anti cancer activity, both in vitro and in vivo.

A google search will give you all the medical studies you need to prove the point.

You mention homeopathy in a derogatory tone, however 1- homeopathy has nothing to do with what we are talking about here.

2- Medline article on homeopathy indicates that Homeopathic remedies do have therapeutic action.

You call the protocol Chuck used as quackery and has no single shred of medical evidence but you obviously didn’t care if his claims may have some validity otherwise you could have found all those medical studies in 5 min as I did with google. All you seem to want to do is prevent people who have no hope to try a perfectly harmless and cheap way to potentially help save themselves from certain death. Do you own any pharmaceutical stocks by any chance? That would explain why you seem to be dead against effective natural therapies.

You said that you are concerned that someone will try this and die, but cancer victims usually get to a point when they are told that there is nothing else they can do, and to get their affairs in order. This means that they are already dead, so what harm can be done by eating some garlic and hot peppers?

In your reply to SurfZen, you wonder why a Christian would choose Zen as part of his Hub name. I wasn’t aware that it made a difference….Can only Christians use this protocol ? So if a Jew has cancer, it wouldn’t help him ?

You mention that cancers go into remission for a variety of causes. So what are the odds that Chuck’s cancer would have gone into remission ? I bet they aren’t very good.

By the way, I happen to like jelly beans. Would not surprise me if someday they do find anti cancer properties in them.

And another thing....I cured myself of ovarian cancer with completely natural remedies and therapies and stayed COMPLETELY away from chemo, drugs and radiation....so don't tell me it doesn't work. I'm living, breathing proof that natural therapies work.


Lissie profile image

Lissie 7 years ago from New Zealand

You make a good point Hal -which fewer and fewer non-scientifically trained people appear to understand - coincidence is not cause and effect! Humans appear programmed to wnata a readon for everything - hence the continued popularity of religon - but some stuff, good and bad, just happen, that this guy's cancer went into remission is great - but its got nothing to do with capscicums (much as I like the vegetable myself).


justmesuzanne profile image

justmesuzanne 7 years ago from Texas

Hmm..well...the author also says in all caps at the beginning of the second paragraph:

"CAUTION: ONE READER REMINDED ME THAT SOME PEOPLE MIGHT READ THIS AND STOP WHATEVER THERAPY THEY ARE DOING. DON'T DO THAT. STAY ON WHATEVER YOU ARE DOING."

Then he goes on to explain that he told his doctor what he was doing, and the doctor said it couldn't hurt, go ahead.

I think he's pretty well covered his bases.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

First of all, I'm replying exclusively on my Hub so that I don't get accused of trying to scare up traffic for this Hub... yeah, that fraction of a penny of Adsense revenue would certainly go a long way towards paying for my new Bentley. :)

Secondly in reply to Mr. Kinsey who on his Hub has listed me the abstract of Dr. Lehmann's study which I have already read the full text on, BTW.

CHUCK, DUDE...

WHAT PART OF:

IN VITRO DOES NOT MEAN A DAMN THING DO YOU NOT UNDERSTAND?

I can kill cancer cells in vitro with anything I've got under the kitchen sink. Ever throw some bleach on mammalian cells? It's fun! I could do the same with Drano, ammonia, Lysol, or even a nice squeeze of lemon juice!

Do you have ANY idea how many thousands upon thousands of in vitro studies have NEVER EVER EVER had any verification in living tissues? And of the ones that have and have progressed to studies in mice how many thousands upon thousands of these studies have NEVER EVER EVER had any verification in living humans?

YOU CAN'T JUST TURN TO THE LAST PAGE OF WAR AND PEACE AND SAY YOU'VE READ THE BOOK. JUST LIKE YOU CAN'T JUST GO FROM ONE LITTLE IN VITRO STUDY AND CLAIM YOU'VE CURED CANCER!

Dude, you don't have a CLUE about medical research...

AND THAT IS WHAT MAKES YOUR HUB SO DANGEROUS.

Ironher: Thanks! Again, I have no problem with anyone trying anything, and if you want to eat habaneros, that's just fine with me. I have some in the fridge and I'm going to make my special tomatillo salsa tonight that would singe the paint off a battleship. But when desperate and easily influenced cancer patients read pure unadulterated crap which leads them to believe that a scotch bonnet is going to cure their cancer, they might be stupid enough to believe it and cease the treatment which their physician has prescribed. What happens if this individual dies and the cause is their suspension of their medical treatment? Megalawsuit, without even considering the shocking loss of a life!

Hovalis: Clinical research on this has been done and continues to be done. The UCLA study was very interesting. I trust that further work will be done. But you can't just short circuit the process and start promoting a substance with claims that it CURES CANCER unless you have hard clinical evidence. I'm aware of the peptic ulcer case, but I am also well acquainted with various high ranking individuals in the NIH and I can assure you that they are constantly reviewing every word that gets published in the journals and whenever anything and I mean ANYTHING pops up that their review panels determine is even remotely feasible, they jump on it with wads of government cash.

Patty: "Research also shows that Capsaicin and ginger has anti cancer activity, both in vitro and in vivo."

HEY!

STOP PULLING STATEMENTS OUT OF YOUR BUTT!

THAT IS A COMPLETE AND UTTER LIE AND COMPLETELY INDICATIVE OF THE PROFOUNDLY EVIL MISSTATEMENTS AND WHOPPING OUTRIGHT FABRICATIONS WHICH I'M TRYING TO STAMP OUT OF THIS WEBSITE.

GIVE ME THE PEER REVIEWED JOURNAL REFERENCES OR ADMIT YOU'RE A FILTHY. REPUGNANT LIAR.

OMG! WHAT A PILE OF CRAP! SOME MANIACS JUST HAVE NO SHAME.

I'm not even going to waste my time discussing the rest of your deranged and lunatic and comments.

Now shut up and crawl back from under the slimy rock you surfaced from.

Lissie: Thanks! There are countless millions of highly trained, experienced medical professionals working in the field of oncology, and some of the hapless, moronic bozo elementary school dropouts who call themselves Hubbers (shaming by association all of the wonderful, intelligent and ethical writers on this site) wander in from their Bingo game holding a bottle of panther piss that their Aunt Bertha said cured her cancer and they not only believe that idiocy, but start trying to convince others of that. Well, I'm going to keep calling their scams on this website as long as I have breath.

justmesuzanne: The only way he can cover his bases is to take his baseless Hub and delete it, then spend his energies getting his snake oil formula verified by proper, peer reviewed medical research. This kind of lethal lie does not belong on HubPages.


surfzen 7 years ago

Back in the day when I surfed every day, I had the opportunity to teach a few people how to stand up on a board and catch waves. It is not unlike flying except you get wet. A couple of fellows bought me a hat with surfzen on it kiddingly referring to me as the zen master. My wife bought me a license plate with Surfzen on it and she got one with Zensurf on it for the fun of it. I am a catholic she is a born again christian, I have a son and granddaughter who are jewish, two daughters who are christian. My first wife of 13 years was Jewish so that explains that. My now wife of 32 years is christian. I park right in front of my church every sunday morning and nobody wonders who or what I am. What is on your license plate Hal, HAL2000? I know this is serious business but that was a joke.

Chuck


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Chuck, please understand. The Zen thing was a joke. However, I'm not at all joking about the severe misstatements on your Hub and the necessity to delete them. You are placing yourself and this entire website in peril due to your actions. Please consider carefully.


Aya Katz profile image

Aya Katz 7 years ago from The Ozarks

Hal, I have no opinion one way or the other on the efficacy of the specific treatment the Hubber you mentioned recommends. I, do, however, firmly support his right to express his opinion. He can't hurt anybody by doing this. People have a right to look into any and all treatments and make up their own minds.


justmesuzanne profile image

justmesuzanne 7 years ago from Texas

He isn't trying to sell his idea. He is just telling about it. While there may not be clinical evidence for his specific idea being beneficial for treating cancer, there is lots of evidence for belief in one's choice of cure being beneficial for treating cancer.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Aya Katz and justmesuzanne: I appreciate your comments but please note that California (which is where HubPages is based) has some of the most stringent state laws with regards to practicing medicine without a license, and there are countless instances where website owners have been dragged through the courts for FAR LESS than is present on the two Hubs in question. This is not a case of expressing an opinion. According to the acknowledged applications of California law, this is practicing medicine without a license and IMHO IT ENDANGERS THE ONGOING OPERATIONS OF THIS WEBSITE, not just Chuck and Kelley who are adults and are responsible for their own actions.


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

Hi Hal,

Since you're providing legal opinions, could you chare with us where you are licensed to practice law?

Thanks.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

That is such an infantile, puerile, kindergarten recess comment, that I don't even deign to reply to it so that I won't "chare" the level of your utter and bald-faced stupidity. You've continued to embarrass yourself, but it proves that there are plenty of imbeciles out there if you are able to keep convincing them that hot peppers cure cancer. What's next? How about having sex with a child cures HIV-AIDS? Lots of people in Africa believe that, so why don't you take up that banner too? Then you can change your signature to: Together we can cure cancer and HIV-AIDS - one moron at a time. Have you absolutely no conscience, education, intellect and common sense, or were you lobotomized as a child?


Sandyspider profile image

Sandyspider 7 years ago from Wisconsin, USA

Miracles do happen. But I do believe in medicine first.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I've personally witnessed what can only be defined as miracles, and I have always attributed them to a higher power, one that I would never deny. That's not the case here, however. If Mr. Kinsey had restricted himself to attributing prayer for the remission, I would have wholeheartedly endorsed and supported him. That is a matter of faith and not medical science. But the ridiculous claims of garlic, cod liver oil, habaneros, etc. is just plain silly and dangerous to spread around on what is a top-ranked and massively read website such as HubPages.


RGraf profile image

RGraf 7 years ago from Wisconsin

Hal, I have to know. Did you anticipate such reactions? :)


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

Meanwhile, Maddy Mason left a message on my hub last night letting us know that her bone scan was completely clear of any cancer.

Her previous scans had shown cancer in many of her bones. Her blood work has varied from being high to a bit high. She's continuing to follow the recipe.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

RGraf, actually I thought that they would see the error of their ways and to safeguard themselves (and maybe even HubPages) from devastating legal action from the FTC et al. they would just go quietly into the night. Sheesh... was I ever wrong! Talk about stubborn and bone-headed! :(

Kelley Eidem, good for Maddy, whoever she is. Now all you have to do is get the clinical research to prove that it was your snake oil that is directly responsible and that the precise therapeutic effect also repeatable in other subjects... and you have your Nobel Prize in Medicine. Right now, all you've got is a Nobel Prize in Delusion.


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

Hi Hal,

Actually, I don't have to do anything of the sort. You might not be aware of this, but Don Imus, the radio talk show host is using my recipe to good effect. I don't know if he has 100,000 listeners or several million.

But he has talked about using the peppers on his show more than once (I don't listen to his show, but have picked up segments off the internet.)

So far he is very happy with his blood work and other lab tests that the doctors are using to monitor his case.

When he is cancer free, he'll be sure to let his audience know that he is cancer free. Then guess what happens. His audience wil want to know the particulars.

Then more people will become cancer free. He might be interviewed on other shows, so even more people will find out about it.

With the information people will choose for themselves what they want to do. Some will be like you and reject it without further proof. Others will decide they want to do what Imus did.

The news will continue to spread, and spread some more. And more people will become cancer free until it becomes widely accepted.

Will someone along the way do studies? Maybe. Due to the sordid nature of previous studies when it comes to cancer, those studies would likely be to discredit the recipe. Typically this is done by using something other than the actual ingredients.

I don't care too much if that happens, because in the meantime, more people will continue to become cancer free. It'll happen like this: John cures himself, so he tells everyone he knows. When his brother Jack comes down with cancer, he'll remember that his brother John cured himself with little effort.

Pretty too long the numbers grow and grow.

The key element all along the way is that people will choose freely one way or the other. If they want to go the medical route, they can. If they want to do both, they can. or they might do what Imus is doing, solely a natural route.

BTW, the Federal Trade Commission can do nothing to me because I don't sell any of the ingredients to the recipe. So there is no "Trade" to be regulated. Nor do I tell anyone what they should do.

Getting the cure for cancer to the people is a little like the history of the Gordion's knot. Many tried to untie it, but the knot wasn't loosened until Alexander cut it.

Likewise with the cure for cancer, many tried to pass through the rigged gauntlet of the medical hierarchy, and they all failed to convince the ones who control medicine.

So I make no attempt to convince them. Each person decides; then we will have a jury of our peers.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Pointless blather. More of the same mindless moronic idiocy you've spouted since Day One.

Don Imus is a doltish talk show host who refers to black women as "nappy headed hos." He has no medical knowledge or specialty and his opinion is as irrelevant as yours. There is only one crucible of medical information, and that is the clinical trial in the peer review journal. Everything else is just gobbledigook just like you're peddling. Educate yourself on what the FTC did with Kevin Trudeau and Robert Barefoot:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2003/06/trudeau.shtm

And I quote:

...the FTC and the FDA are sending strong warning letters to Web site operators who are marketing (products as) an effective treatment or cure for cancer and/or other diseases. In dozens of warnings sent this week, the FTC states it is aware of no competent and reliable scientific evidence supporting such claims and that such unsupported claims are unlawful under the FTC Act. Accordingly, the FTC is instructing the Web site operators to remove any false or deceptive claims from their sites immediately. In a similar action, the FDA warned Web site operators that disease claims and unsubstantiated structure/function claims cause their products to be in violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act. "FDA and FTC are working together to maximize our efforts to combat heath fraud," said FDA Commissioner Mark B. McCellan. "We are trying to be particularly vigilant concerning fraudulent internet promotion, because this is emerging as an increasingly insidious way of trying to exploit the public."

You, sir, through your pigheaded stubbornness and profound ignorance of medical science are threatening every single Hubber on this website and the existence of the website itself. You are a peril, a threat, and a menace to the continuation of HubPages and YOU MUST BE STOPPED.


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

Did you miss the point, Hal?

Don Imus is free to tell people how his health is progressing, including telling them that he is cancer free, based on his doctors' assessements. That will naturally bring forth great interest by the public and perhaps by other programming.

And just as Imus is free to discuss it, his listeners will be free to try it for themselves if they wish to.

Meanwhile, if you or someone else wishes to conduct a study or 10 studies, you'll be free to do that. Of course it will have little impact compared to family members, close friends and coworkers sharing their experiences with my recipe.

I'm a little familiar with the FTC. Their middle name is "Trade" as I pointed out to you before. There is no transaction taking place between me and anyone who reads about my recipe and tries it for themselves. I have no links to purchase any of the items I talk about.

Likewise, the FDA has jurisdiction over food, supplements, cosmetics, cigarets and drugs. I offer none of those. So once again, they have no claim over me.

I do not offer medical advice, nor do I ever tell someone what they should or should not do regarding their health.

Since research is your crucible that you prefer to follow, you are free to skip my recipe as something you don't wish to partake in.

Jack didn't follow your lead. He had Stage 3B lung cancer. His doctor told him he had 6 months to live. With 3B lung, there is severe lymph involvement, fluid in the lungs and around the heart.

On his first check up, his lymph was clear and the fluid in his lungs and around the heart were also cleared up. At six months, he was cancer free...instead of dead.

Is that proof? No, it's just a father who took a chance and won. Both his wife and his two teenaged daughters are thrilled by his recovery.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


Hovalis profile image

Hovalis 7 years ago from Australia

Hi Hal,

The problem the doctors faced with the gastric ulcers cure (well, the 80% cure) was getting published in medical journals. I believe their difficulty lie in a previous study done in the '50's which 'proved' that bacteria could not reside in the stomach. It took drastic action on their part to gain the needed attention. In their case, as well, the research took place in Western Australia - not the United States.

Honestly, I believe we haven't even scratched the surface of alternative medicines. That doesn't mean you can believe all the anecdotal evidence used in many of the hubs we see here. Cancer is too serious not to be treated. One of my workmates has cancer, and the mother of one of my workmates also has cancer. I would never recommend that they give up a proven treatment. The risk would be too great.

Even Dirk Benedict claims to have cured cancer. He claims he cured cancer in himself with a macrobiotic diet. (He has a biography out if you're so inclined to read those). Not so surprisingly you really don't need to read between the lines to see he can't back up any of those claims with clinical proof. Maybe he did and maybe he didn't -- we'll never know because we don't have proof.


Lies Kill 7 years ago

The three saddest things on this topic are

1 There are people who actually believe the nonsense in quack hubs such as the one you mention

2 Some people will actually die because they believe in it

5 There are millions of Americans who cannot afford the nescessary health care for their many and varied illnesses and clutch at this nonsense in depair.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Kelley Eidem:

http://hubpages.com/health/An-Open-Letter-To-The-M...

Enjoy!

Hovalis: I can understand the predicament of the gastric ulcers doctors, but all I can state is my own personal experience. I have NO medical degree and I had NO problem getting a leading peer reviewed medical journal to publish my research. None whatsoever. It was accepted by the first medical journal I submitted it to. Why? Because it strictly followed accepted medical practice in the formulation and description of a medical experiment. So I can't really comment on their problems. As for Dirk, please read the Hub I've just posted as I discuss him briefly... but I discuss his replacement with more lust. :)

Lies Kill:

BRAVO!

HEAR HEAR!

THANK YOU!

If only these snake oil peddlers could understand this!


Daniel Carter profile image

Daniel Carter 7 years ago from Western US

It seems to me that there is legitimate substance on both sides of this issue. There certainly is no cure-all for any one ailment as far as I can tell. The condition of the body seems to be the over-riding point in what will or will not cure any ill. In other words, the out of balance the body is, the more aggressive any disease will become, and therefore, far more difficult to correct/heal. I think it would be safe to assume that stage 4 cancer of any type means that the body is pretty well ravaged because of the disease, and therefore, very powerful, aggressive means will have to be used to treat it.

Herbs and and natural substances might work in early stages, or perhaps if general conditions of the body's health have not already gone to hell in a handbasket. But how is the individual supposed to be able to assess these conditions accurately when his assessment tools are based on how he/she feels and looking in the mirror twice a day?

So, I think there might be something to natural means of healing, in some cases. However, it seems that any long-term, life-threatening ailment requires more than a check-in with a smart neighbor who also grows garlic in his backyard. It would seem very much smarter to develop a team of qualified consultants, which would include degreed, certified medical professionals for something so life-threatening.

I neither dismiss more natural means of healing, nor do I condemn the medical/pharmaceutical community. More rational thinking should be implemented, I believe. It's not rocket science to understand that the odds against survival of many forms of cancer are low, and therefore, aggressive means usually need to be implemented to cure it.

And, although I believe in God, I don't think he/she is going to rescue us from important lessons we need to learn. Hiding behind faith is not necessarily accepting the reality of one's condition. After all, many, MANY people have had armies of faith and prayers in their behalf, and they DIED. If God rescued us from every ill, what could we possibly learn? Intervention is wonderful when it happens. I don't understand why it happens, but it does. But when it doesn't happen, it causes lots of people to hate God.

My conclusion is that there's more to the 'God' thing that belief and faith. And so, therefore, there's more to curing/healing cancer than either side of the holistic/medical community's take on it. I think we have to be smart enough to look rationally at the numbers, the conditions and make rather nonemtional assessments about how to proceed.

Just my two cents' worth.


helenathegreat profile image

helenathegreat 7 years ago from Manhattan

Hal, I love reading your intelligent rebuttals to stupid comments.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Daniel Carter: I thank you for your measured and rational comment, but I have to disagree with a few of your statements. There is no legitimacy on the side of any hawker, promoter, or marketer of snake oil. Period. Herbs and natural substances have never been proved to have any significant anti tumor effects at any stage of cancer. Also Period.

I'm all for looking rationally at the numbers. Let's do that. Statistically. Epidemiologically. According to the accepted scientific method which dictates all scientific discovery in any field from nuclear physics to science. Not by telling tall tales about Aunt Bertha's panther piss cure.

If an individual who has some reason to believe that they have stumbled upon some substance which has therapeutic properties and is not currently recognized as such by the medical community, they have various options open to them.

1) They can contact the NIH and discuss their findings with the heads of departments.

I DID!

2) They can consult with legitimate medical researchers and devise a very basic medical experiment which can be conducted inexpensively while at the same time adhering strictly to accepted medical research practices and then get it published in a leading medical journal, even with no medical degree.

I DID!

What you CANNOT do is to open your big fat mouth and spew out quack dreck which can imperil the lives of innocent patients who are stupid enough to believe you.

Hmm... I like that statement so much, I'm going to go drop it into my Open Letter Hub. :)

helenathegreat: Thanks! I appreciate your kind words and support. I'm really up to my knees in stupidity in this one! :)


Erick Smart 7 years ago

If you ask any doctor right now they will tell you the internet has been terrible for them. Too many patients try and self-diagnose and usually they are wrong. This is based on the fact there are so many websites and pages by non-doctors that do not know what they are talking about and these people believe what they read.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

I could not agree more. Thank you for the accurate and insightful comment!


Nelle Hoxie 7 years ago

Hal I commend your effort and marvel at your emotional strength and resolve. The horrible medical advice that I have found on Hubs and other internet sites terrifies me. I have made the decision never to write a health or nutrition website because I am just not qualified. No matter how much research I do, I don't believe I should get between and doctor and patient strategy. I was hoping that whipping Oprah took in Newsweek for telling people to think their way out of cancer would have some effect. But nothing. I have made sure that I have a terrific family medicine doctor and an internist - both board certified - to give me my medical advice. Continue the good work, I am with you in spirit.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thank you so much for the exceptionally kind comments and support! I wholeheartedly agree and wish more individuals would share your rational and correct viewpoint! I can't believe the pass that Oprah got from 99% of the world's press either, but I guess they don't want to mess with her! :)


Quizzle 7 years ago

I'll belive this is a legitimate cure when you get actual licensed medical practitioners to do a study that proves you right.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

To the moron who is spamming these comments under a variety of names from IP 207.98.170.198: You can't type faster than I can DELETE. I have NO patience for idiots who change their name with every post to make it seem like their braindead viewpoint is shared by others. Go cure your syphilis with habaneros and don't come back. Thank you.

Quizzle: I hope you're directing your comment at the snake oil purveyors, right? :)


Charlotte  7 years ago

In the past five years, I have lost five friends to cancer. -- They all had radiation and chemotherapy. They all died anyway.

If I am ever told that I have cancer, I do believe that I will try the pepper-garlic recipe FIRST!

IT CAN' FAIL MUCH WORSE THAN THE CHEMOTHERAPY AND RADIATION THAT MY FRIENDS HAD!!!!


Ian 7 years ago

Your throw away phrase: " but make sure that what you say doesn't hurt" is used by the bigots and prejudiced to stop reasonable comments the "hurt" them. So it's not a good criterion.

So, on reflection, you may wish to amend that.


trainr 7 years ago

I doubt you'll post this one.

I was diagnosed with colorectal cancer in January via colonoscopy and PET scan showing two tumors, one with an SUV of 9 and another at 19; my CEA was at 6. I took 3 grams of cesium chloride only for two months. Scans in March showed no tumors, colonoscopy and CTC tests both showed no evidence of disease, and CEA dropped to normal at 1.6.


Guido 7 years ago

Hal,

Thank you for opening my eyes to this deception. Now I have to check out Chucks web page.


ChristianLiberal profile image

ChristianLiberal 7 years ago from Folsom, CA

A well written piece with good research.

I would only ask, if you are going to ban certain subjects or sites:WHO DECIDES?

I've worked as a nurse, and I've seen some remarkable intances of Faith Healing - healings that could be verified. Maybe not so miraculous when you consider it's our thoughts that make us sick to begin with, so someone's belief system cannot be separated from their faith in a cure.


fortunerep profile image

fortunerep 7 years ago from North Carolina

I kinda find it funny you have a google ad that advertises curing cancer in thrity days, someone else probably already mentioned it, but wow I couldn't read all the comments

dori


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 7 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

Hal - Four cans of Tuborg Gold (Danish premier lager) taken nightly before, during and after food will cure almost anything. Especially chronic slimness...


Shreesh 7 years ago

Hal - critics are always important, and you do have some sense in what you say, but I think you are far too provocative, aggressive and downright rude. Using harsh words is not going to prove you right or prove others wrong. Let us stick to the facts and at least leave such strongly negative emotions out.

I myself am strongly inclined to believe that trying Kelley's recipe is certainly harmless - especially if done in parallel with conventional cancer treatment. Mercola runs an excellent site and you should see this article as a great example of alternative treatments to cancer http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive... Also see this : http://www.curenaturalicancro.com/2-physicians-ref... The bottom line is this - there is no miracle cure for cancer. Some things work for some people and other things for others. This knowledge sharing and debate is vital ... the internet is enabling it and I really feel grateful that I get to see such varying opinions.

For that matter, it was not proven for the first 50-odd years of smoking that it was injurious to health .. and yet there were many doctors then who opposed it ... would it have been right to shut them up for lack of evidence? The same goes for radiation from cellphones.

There are several things modern science has not yet mastered. I see no harm in individuals voicing their opinions. There indeed is a risk of people taking the wrong advice seriously, but there also is enormous potential upside.

Healthy criticism is ESSENTIAL ... as is promoted by the sites of Kelley/Chuck/Mercola ... so lets keep it to that. Lets not get into mindless mud slinging. If this hub is an attempt to get more ad revenue, you seem to be doing well :)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

My sweet Lord... I have seen a lot of ignorant people in my over 2 years on HubPages, but this one takes the cake, eats it too, and then parades around Main Street with it! There is some completely profound moron who has been spamming the comments section on this Hub under a zillion different names with impassioned defenses of Kelley and Chucky's snake oil: How modern medicine does nothing but kill its patients, how it's much better to trust some crazy huckster on a Hub than a million oncologists, and how habaneros cure everything from corns, sores, sore holes, and pimples on your teeth.

How stupid is this ignoramus in not reading my profile and understanding that I've been a professional editor for three decades? I put over 100 million magazines on the newsstands while scrutinizing every word and now this dunce thinks that they can pull a fast one on me?

YOUR WRITING STYLE IS IDENTICAL RIGHT DOWN TO THE SAME SPELLING AND GRAMMAR ERRORS OVER AND OVER AGAIN! YOU MIGHT AS WELL PUT YOUR FINGERPRINT ON EACH COMMENT!

You can go hiding behind IP proxies all you want, but you're never going to hide from your ignorance! Keep writing comments! I'll keep identifying your writing style and deleting them! Let's see who gets tired first. Sheesh!

HOW

STUPID

ARE

YOU???

Charlotte: There are hundreds of thousands of instances of proven medical research dealing with radiation and chemotherapy published in peer review journals, and countless millions of medical professionals who believe them to be 100% valid. And I'm supposed to believe you because... exactly... why?

Ian: Of course, hurt is clearly not meant in an emotional sense but physiological. Therefore, you misinterpreted my statement.

trainr: See! I published it! Now you owe me a zillion dollars. Just send it to my Paypal. :)

Let me tell you my story:

I was diagnosed with stage 3b cervical cancer. I had Adenocarcinoma of the cervix which is a rare cervical cancer that went undetected for nearly two years. However, I started drinking the oil squeezed from the zits of the teenagers at the local high school three times a day and now not only I'm cured but my aging process has been reversed, I've lost 100 pounds of unsightly fat, and I have had three and a half inches added to the length of my penis. (Which was a real neat trick, considering I have a cervix.) :)

Hey, I figure that if you can spout that nonsense so can I.

I guess since your reading comprehension is not really up to snuff, I'd lay it out for you.

The primary promoter of cesium chloride as a cancer cure was Dr. Hellfried Sartori. On July 12, 2006, this article appeared in the Sydney Morning Herald:

Hellfried Sartori, 67, is being held on charges of fraud and practising medicine without a licence in the northern city of Chiang Mai. Police allege that several ill foreigners travelled to Thailand with false hopes for his cures, only to die after receiving injections of a dangerous chemical compound (cesium chloride) bought for $A50,000 from Sartori. Thai police said Sartori's internet advertisements offered desperate people all over the world the false prospect of a cure for "everything from AIDS and cancer to allergies and hardening of the arteries".

I'll stick to oil from teeny's zits if you don't mind! :)

Guido: Beware when you get there. You might be swallowing too many habaneros soon and then you'll get a nasty ulcer! :)

ChristianLiberal: I don't want to ban ANY Hub. Only the ones that VIOLATE FEDERAL LAW should be deleted. The purveyors of ILLEGAL substances have no more right here than any other pusher. Do Hubs on how wonderful crack cocaine is, along with addresses and times where the drug can be purchased belong on HubPages? Then neither does any other Hub which is FORBIDDEN BY LAW.

fortunerep: I'd try to get that cancer curing Google ad taken off, but then they'd likely replace it with a SCIENTOLOGY AD! AAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGHHHhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!! :)

Paraglider: YES! I definitely like your cure better than the zit oil from teenagers. Much more fun! And my expansive waistline is definitely testimony to its magnificent therapeutic powers! :)

Shreesh: In my 1,100 Hubs, I've ALWAYS given as good as I get. I've been called every dirty name in the book and some that weren't even in any book, and I never rolled over on it. Purveyors of ILLEGAL SNAKE OIL will continue to be blasted on this Hub. If they don't like the truth or my writing style, then they are free to go live in a cave... where at least they can hide to try to avoid being imprisoned for their CRIMINAL ACTIONS. And stuff your income accusation, MORON! See... how do you like being on the receiving end of my "provocation, aggressiveness and outright rudeness?" Keep it up and I'll verbally cut you a new rectum. IDIOT!


ProHealth 7 years ago

As far as I know nobody has been brought up on charges of violating any laws. Who made you judge, jury and executioner ? Kelley and Chuck are just telling their story and are not pushing anyone to follow their example. You have lots of anger, your typing style is at best that of a 10 year old angry bully that feels he has a right to insult everybody that doesn't bend over for you. GROW UP !!!


KOz 7 years ago

You either dint read it through and just dont care to and love to suppress good info or you work for big Pharma that just gets rich from peoples deaths.

He does not say to stop getting the poison treatments of mainstream medicine but to add his suggetions to get your health back in order.

Are you really that ignorant.


KOz 7 years ago

ChristianLiberal: I don't want to ban ANY Hub. Only the ones that VIOLATE FEDERAL LAW should be deleted. The purveyors of ILLEGAL substances have no more right here than any other pusher. Do Hubs on how wonderful crack cocaine is, along with addresses and times where the drug can be purchased belong on HubPages? Then neither does any other Hub which is FORBIDDEN BY LAW.

So when did Garlic, Cod liver oil and Habanero pepers become illegal.

Ignorance is bliss.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Yes, so you must be in extreme bliss! :)

FTC vs. Trudeau and Barefoot. Plus about a hundred more references where the FTC and FDA have shut down websites promoting quack cancer cures.

How many times do I have to repeat myself. IT'S FRIGGIN ILLEGAL TO PROMOTE SUBSTANCES OF ANY KIND AS CANCER CURES WITH NO CLINICAL EVIDENCE!

Now shut up and go away!


KOz 7 years ago

Hal Im just curious but have you ever been diagnosed as having bipolar disorder or is it just the lack of sleep.

Hopefully your not this sour all day every day as that would be very unhealthy and cause a shortened life.

Cheers.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

KOz, I'm just curious but have you ever been diagnosed with severe mental deficiency which leads you to believe that a dozen habaneros cure cancer?

Try to exercise your sole IQ point for a moment: If that were the case WOULD THERE BE A SINGLE MEXICAN WITH CANCER?

DUH!


KOz 7 years ago

So why wont you post the Medical Data that says its true.

Isn't that Censorship that stands against your Editor code.

If its important info that pertains to this Hub and credibal then post.

http://googlewwwp1.csmc.edu:7800/search?Submit1=Se...

Cedars-Sinai says capsaicin kills cancer cells.

Cheers.


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

Hi Hal,

It has been pointed out to you twice that the difference between the case you referred to, namely the "FTC vs Trudeau and Barefoot" was for deceptive advertising of a product. IOW, it has no application for either myself or Chuck.

Could you point out any other case that would support your claim? The one you referred to fails in that regard.

Btw, since you brought up the law, calling someone with no criminal record a "a criminal" is libelous, if one wanted to pursue it. At present I don't, but It might protect you in the future to avoid that type of libel because someone else might not be so kind, and they will file a suit against you.

Even if you were to win, the costs of defending yourself might not be what you're looking to do in your retirement years.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


B.Z. Alixandre profile image

B.Z. Alixandre 7 years ago from Boise, ID

I apologize if I repeat anything but I simply could not read every comment put down here.

First and foremost I must say that I believe freedom of speech is a responsibility. Those that flout it should be ridiculed by the public as the appropriate mediator of this right. These are the perfect forums for that.

Secondly, I agree that Mr. Kinsey's hub was rather reckless (though he has afforded some updated disclaimers, which I approve of) primarily in that they feed misinformation to masses desparate for such a theory. Like feeding the starving soda pop and chips. I do believe that many homeopathic methods are very good for maintaining a persons health during the rigorous and damaging treatment of cancer. True homeopathic methods, this would exclude crystals, chanting (except in meditation to relieve stress form), and pretty much any 'cure' purchased from a store that does a lot of trade in the previous. When I say homeopathic, I refer to ethnomedicine, treatment used by people before medication was available such as willow bark (the chemical foundation for aspirin) and such. I am not a fan of medication, but cancer isn't something you mess around with.

My aunt was very "new age" and into homeopathic cures and such. Then she got Uterine cancer, and she did what cancer patients should do. She asked questions, she learned the terminology, she found out what the cancer was doing and what the treatment would do. Knowledge is indeed power, and what she found was the homeopathic medicine wouldn't cure cancer. She began to doubt the legitimacy of homeopathic medicine in other arenas. Homeopathic is great at maintaining health in general, and being healthy when you get sick makes it easier to overcome illness. As such, there is benefit to it, but it should certainly never be a replacement for it.

It should also be recognized that sometimes people go into remission for no apparent reason at all. Whether it is a divine touch or biological serendipity is not for me to say, but anyone exposed to medicine knows that sometimes people just get better. (I would like to input that I am an EMT, biology student, and have studied a lot of physiology and have experience in researching medical and biological studies, so I'm not just blowing smoke here.)


Paraglider profile image

Paraglider 7 years ago from Kyle, Scotland

On the other hand, the President of Gambia's selected bananas and blessed peanuts seem to work (against HIV/AIDS) on Mondays and Wednesdays. But on Tuesdays and Thursdays he cures Asthma instead, using - bananas and blessed peanuts...


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

"If that were the case WOULD THERE BE A SINGLE MEXICAN WITH CANCER?"

I wouldn't eat hot peppers all the time, because people build up a tolerance to them. It's known that capcaisin can affect the nerves. Well, too much hot peppers would probably turn off the nerve receptors.

I've heard that animals will eat certain types of plants when they are sick, but they don't eat them when they aren't sick. I think it's a good idea to follow that example. Some foods are for building and maintaining, whereas others are for healing.

In summary, the ppers offer a little bit of protection to Mexicans, but overuse can eliminate the positive effect. Those without refrigeration might still benefit from the peppers and garlic, by helping to protect the person from food borne illnesses.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


frogyfish profile image

frogyfish 7 years ago from Central United States of America

People have choices, and I say let them do their own research and make them. If they choose not to do that, they can do what their doctor says, knowing he is educated by the pharmaceutical giants about their drugs. $ Additionally, every 'medical scientific study/trial' was BEGUN by a NEW finding that needed to be explored. Let it be, please. Thanks.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

KOz: I'VE ADDRESSED THIS OVER AND OVER AGAIN. IN VITRO MEANS NOTHING. GO TO SCHOOL!

B.Z. Alixandre: Interesting viewpoint, and although I do not subscribe to homeopathy to do anything but sucker you out of your money, you're definiitely entitled to your opinion.

Paraglider: I have a really nasty wart on my nose that makes me look like a cauldron stirrer from The Scottish Tragedy. Do you think  that the Gambia President could rub some hippo dung and banana/peanut mixture and make it go away? :)

Kelley... Kelley... Kelley...

You wonderfully stubborn lobotomized little troll:

Everything you've stated is so profoundly ignorant that it insults me to even answer it. Your Mexican peppers explanation has soared to zeniths of idiocy rarely encountered in the history of medicine. Hippocrates himself would step out of his grave just to slap you out for this blather. However, here are three points of interest. You CAN count to three, right?

1) My quote was: "claiming that it was a habanero tincture that did it and encouraging other people who are also facing critical cancers to follow suit (possibly ignoring their physicians' advice on the real therapies which do have clinical evidence to support them) is criminal and could lead to the premature death of innocent individuals." That is the truth and that's all there is to that. Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

2) Six Separate Quack Claims

http://nccam.nih.gov/news/newsletter/fall2001/3.ht...

Seasilver

http://www.chiro.org/nutrition/ABSTRACTS/FTC_Charg...

The Zapper

http://www.ratbags.com/rsoles/comment/clarkftc0301...

H1N1 Cures

http://www.attorneyatlaw.com/2009/05/fda-ftc-warn-...

SARS Cures

http://www.casewatch.org/ftc/news/2003/sars.shtml

There's lots more, but this page should certainly interest you:

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/2008/09/boguscures.shtm

Let me point out some interesting aspects of the FTC September 2008 action you should ponder:

---

The Federal Trade Commission today announced 11 law enforcement actions challenging deceptive advertising of bogus cancer cures. The FTC charged the companies with making unsupported claims that their products cured or treated one or more types of cancer. In each case, the company is charged with violating the FTC Act, which bars deceptive claims. Some complaints allege that the companies also falsely touted clinical or scientific proof for their products.

“There is no credible scientific evidence that any of the products marketed by these companies can prevent, cure, or treat cancer of any kind,” said Lydia Parnes, Director of the FTC’s Bureau of Consumer Protection.

Of the 11 complaints the FTC announced today, six have been resolved by proposed settlements; the rest will be litigated. In all cases, the companies will be required to notify consumers who purchased the products challenged in the complaints that there was little or no scientific evidence demonstrating the products’ effectiveness for treating or curing cancer. They also must urge these customers to consult with their doctors about the products. In addition, the companies will be prohibited from selling or disclosing their consumer lists to others. The products the companies marketed include essiac teas and other herbal mixtures, laetrile, black salve (a corrosive ointment), and mushroom extracts.

“Many of these products are scams,” Parnes said, “and let’s face it, when you’re battling cancer, the last thing you need is a scam. The best idea is to talk to your doctor about any treatment that you are thinking about taking.”

---

Hmm... sound like something you're doing? Hmmmmmm......

3) So... you wanna threaten me, huh? BRING IT ON BOZO! "The Habanero Pepper Cures Cancer Quack Sues Blogger" would do wonders for my career and my Hub hits. I might get an extra million page views by the weekend, plus be on CNN, and every front page in the country! Yippee! And since you'll have to litigate it in my jurisdiction, I'll make sure that Canadian Border Authorities have copies of your Hub (not the one you've just edited to death since you're running scared with your tail between your legs, but the ORIGINAL one I have copied on my hard drive... y'know... the one where you have several claims that run you head first into the arms of the FTC and FDA...), so that at least you'll be forbidden entry at the border and hopefully will be directly incarcerated. If the Americans are lax on medical quacks, you'll find that the Canadians love nothing better than to throw the book at them. Many are behind bars right now. Wanna join 'em? Bring your thermal undies as it gets cold in Canadian prisons in the winter.

Kelley. Face it. A mind is a terrible thing to waste and yours seems to have been wasted at birth. Have you considered donating it for medical experiments? It certainly isn't doing you any good. :)

frogyfish: Let's let people do their own research! YEAH! Great idea. Let's let Kelley and Chucky start a clinic, feed cancer patients peppers and watch how many they can kill by the end of the month! Oh fer crying out loud! Go back to your pond, frogyfish. Sheesh....

Folks, look. From now on I'm only publishing comments that have something NEW and ORIGINAL to say, pro or con. I'm not going to keep answering pepper sauce in vitro over and over again forever.

And... would it be too much to ask the proponents of snake oil pepper sauce cancer cures and their zombie proxy-hiding "supporters" to bring some FACTS to the discussion? You know... FACTS. Those things that are REAL and TRUE, and don't exist only in some fevered hallucination of yours?

Therefore, proponents and supporters of eat a dozen habaneros and cure cancer, I leave you with this:

---

If stupidity were a crime, you'd be number one on the Most Wanted list.

If the government ever declared war on stupidity, you'd get nuked.

If you each had half a brain, you'd still only have half a brain.

If what you don't know can't hurt you, you're invulnerable.

If I called you a wit, I'd be half right.

In your optimum environment, you'd be locked in a life and death struggle with mushrooms.

If I give you a penny for your thoughts, I would get change back.

---

Have a nice life, idiots!

:)


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

BTW, check this link for Seasilver Cures Cancer. The FTC ordered them to pay $120 million! Hope you hot pepper freaks are dang rich! :)

http://www.nutraingredients-usa.com/Regulation/FTC...


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

You got me...Hal. I'm refunding all the money I've ever received selling habaneros and garlic. That would be exactly -0-, Hal.

When the FTC asks you the names of the products I'm selling, what are you going to tell them?

Same with the FDA, Hal. Are they going to pull the peppers and garlic off the grocery store shelves because of me, Hal? Are they going to raid my home looking for peppers and garlic? Please let me know what to expect after you call them and email them.

Thanks for all your help.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


Quizzle 7 years ago

Indeed I am. Also, even if the law allows you keep parading your snake oil, will your conscience. Many people deeply distrust proven treatments like chemo, and would flee to your assurances of an organic cure. They will probably die.

IU applaud you, Hal, for standing strong in the face of criticism, and idiocy (Unfortunately very few people can intelligently and respectfully disagree and argue, though there are some.)


B.Z. Alixandre profile image

B.Z. Alixandre 7 years ago from Boise, ID

After posting my comment, I realized I didn't use the term I wanted. I used homeopathic as oppossed to holistic. Basically the premise that keeping healthy in general will improve your ability to heal when you become sick or require surgery. Whether or not that changes any opinions is moot, I just wanted to correct my error


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Kelley, DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO READ? DO YOU NOT KNOW HOW TO CLICK ON A LINK? The links to FTC and FDA prosecution I provided in my last comment are clear in that they promote things like herbs and vitamin C which are available at the corner store. Now stop trying to parade your innocence, delete your Hub and go away. You're stinking up HubPages. You're also having an emetogenic effect on me. Look that up in your Funk & Wagnalls!

Quizzle, thanks! I appreciate your support and the kind words, as well as your accurate summary. The delusions marketed by the snake oil promoters are definitely playing with people's lives. But as you can see, quacks like Kelley have no conscience.

B.Z. Alixandre: I have often spoken in support of holistic means in science. Thanks for the correction.


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

Hal, did you READ the links you put up? They will reaffirm what I'v been telling you, "Not only did these PRODUCTS carry unfounded claims...." [capitalization added]

Hal, in every case listed, the FTC and the FDA took actions against companies SELLING products. I don't sell products.

What Chuck and I have done is to tell our experiences from using my pepper/garlic and oil recipe. That might be against the law in Canada, but it's not against the law here.

Our experiences appear to scare you quite a bit. Please accept my apologies for that. Sometimes new things can make people feel scared or uncomfortable. It's not my intention to frighten anyone with our good news.

BTW, you've said that all the testing has been in vitro. Please allow me to correct that error. The testing on capsaicin at UCLA was conducted in mice, thus it was an in vivo study. There results were newsworthy.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Studies mean nothing in vitro, in vivo, in anything means ZILCH unless the substance passes human tests. There are literally thousands of substances which SEEM promising but go nowhere as soon as they enter clinical human tests. You have absolutely no basis in claiming ANYTHING DOES ANYTHING, let alone CURE CANCER with substances which have not been properly researched and acknowledged effective.

WHY

CAN

YOU

NOT

UNDERSTAND

THIS

SIMPLE

CONCEPT?

And the only thing that scares me is your ignorance and lack of education. Now go away! Go promote your snake oil at moronsrus.com!


ninawa 7 years ago

So far, as I've read your hub and the hubs of the other folks' that you oppose so much, you are the one doing the major portion of the "slamming" that you mention you are a victim to in your article.

I have found that many studies won't be done to prove things that won't make money. When and if they are done, they are done using suboptimum levels of what is being purported to work to "prove" they are useless. I have had this clearly explained to me by a cancer researcher at the Roswell Cancer Institute many many years ago, when they studied intravenous Vit C therapy.

Why can't you simply agree to disagree without being vicious? It only serves to make you seem less credible and hurts your agenda.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Ok... I'll be a nice boy and behave... at least for this comment! :)

Allow me to gently and patiently explain something to you my dear ninawa. You state "that many studies won't be done to prove things that won't make money". So you are accusing millions of oncologists and medical researchers to be embroiled in a global conspiracy to kill hundreds of millions of innocent people unless they can patent habaneros and sell them for $100 a pod, right?

And then you say I get vicious. How could anyone hold such an... (promised to be nice here...) unorthodox... opinion?

Can I say SHEESH without being vicious and hurting your feelings? Please? Pretty please with sugar on top?

OK?

SHEESH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:)


ninawa 7 years ago

The oncologist and many others would love to do the studies if they could afford to on their own. At this point it is the pharmaceutical industry that funds the bulk of the studies and won't do so if it won't pad their bank accounts. Even the universities are beholding to the money they get to supoort their institutions and are weary to bite the hand that feeds them.

Still with the sarcastic patronizing responses. Your agenda suffers for it. Too bad.


Merry 7 years ago

Mr. Licino, I find your remarks and the manner in which you express yourself to be offensive. Your methods obscure rather than bring light to a subject. You claim to be a proponent of certain types of scientific methods, but do not practice this yourself. For example, you criticize homeopathy because you make an assumption that dilution of something necessarily weakens its effectiveness. I am not writing to defend or reject homeopathy here, only the principle that you say dilution always weakens. It has been found that exposure to certain chemicals and other substances can actually be more harmful when diluted. I'm sorry I can't go into details now, I'm only writing to show a flaw in your reasoning.

For centuries Pythagoras and those who followed him assumed that the earth was the center of our solar system because it seemed logical and reasonable at the time. Anyone who said otherwise was derided and discounted.

Another example is the story of Sister Kenney, a nurse who found a better treatment for polio sufferers than the medical establishment of her day. For fifty years doctors refused to listen to her because they said since she was not a doctor, any medical findings and treatments she had were not valid. The doctor's methods were not only not working, but caused great harm to the polio victims. The doctors were forced to listen when the polio sufferers and their loved ones came to Sister Kenney from all over the world to obtain relief and a successful treatment plan.

Truth is not served by being rude and insulting. In your zeal to make your point you are not really listening to what people are saying.

I have read Mr. Eidem's hub, and learned about Dr. Emanel Revici. Mr. Eidem used what he learned from Dr. Revici, M. D. and Richard Schulze, N. D. to form a treatment that worked for him and for other people. I am very grateful to learn of this, and certainly would not want someone to prevent me from learning about this as you are trying to do. This country has not yet descended to the level of totalitarian regimes with their thought police that tell people what they can or cannot read.


mirandalloyd profile image

mirandalloyd 7 years ago from Alaska

There's a lot in the world that can't be "proven" through the scientific method. People have claimed to be healed after being visited by a deceased loved one, or through the power of prayer. The human mind is a powerful healing tool all its own. It's not only "the placebo effect". Certain foods too, may prevent and/or coax cancer into remission, such as tomatoes, dark green vegetables, etc.

But I do disagree with recommending that everyone with cancer try this technique. What works for one person will not work for everyone, based on any number of factors. People are not all identical. Not all cancer is identical, either.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

ninawa: Sorry. You're a nutbar. I have no time for your silliness. Next!

Merry: Sorry. You're a nutbar. I have no time for your silliness. Next!

mirandalloyd, I have stated on several occasions that if the Hubs in question by Kelley and Chuck were based on the power of prayer alone, I would not only not have opposed them, but actually supported them. I have no doubt that prayer is immensely powerful and outside of the realm of medical science to explain. They crossed the line, however, when they started claiming their snake oil CURED CANCER.

What I have said to Kelley and Chuck I say to all: Bring me the clinical human trial proof and the approval of the FDA and I'll be in your corner. Try to scam me and I'll chew you up and spit you out.


Kelley Eidem profile image

Kelley Eidem 7 years ago from Panama City, FL

Hal, you are no doubt familiar with the story of the Gordion Knot. Many tried to untie the knot and failed. It was, if this is a word "untie-able."

Alexander understood that the knot could not be untied. so he cut it with his sword.

For up to nine decades, those with alternative cures for cancer tried to appease the peer review journal process. But the peer review process is untie-able for alternative methods. The pages of the peer review journals are merely fly paper. Likewise with the FDA, and their sordid track record.

When Jonas Salk wanted to get acceptance for his vaccine he was shunned and rejected by the medical community. So he went to the network TV news. They told his story and the rest is history.

My recipe is not for you. It's for those who wish to try it. Don Imus is trying it, and in the process of getting cured. He's likely to spread the word, and more will adopt it. At some point the Gordion Knot tied by the drug companies will be undone. The knot will be sliced.

If someone decides they want to go through the FDA process, that is their choice. But it won't be a requirement for the many who adopt this recipe for themselves prior to that happening.

The best to you.

Kelley Eidem

Together we can cure cancer - one person at a time!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Nonsense.

Nonsense.

Nonsense.

Sheer, unadulterated, pure, complete and utter nonsense.

Don't you have an OFF switch?

P.S. I wonder if it would be possible to tie your typing fingers into Gordian knots so you would finally stop your incessant insistence on spouting lunacy. :)


Alexander Mark profile image

Alexander Mark 7 years ago from beautiful, rainy, green Portland, Oregon

There are many good and well meaning doctors, but I do not trust the medical industry. Obviously, chemotherapy and other endorsed treatments do work, but why should we trust an industry that allows doctors to be bribed to prescribe medicine any more or less than alternative medicine promoters?

I am afraid that believing we need to protect people from their own stupidity will put us in big rubber suits and helmets whenever we walk outside. I understand your reasoning, but I respectfully disagree. There are too many people who actually think that Christianity is harmful. One day, Christian churches will be watered down or shut down. It is illegal to preach that homosexuality is a sin in Canada. That does seem reasonable from a non-religious standpoint because homosexuals are offended by that topic. But what about the Christians who are offended? Should we make laws forcing everyone to get a Bible education because they are going to hell if they don't get saved? No. Yet I must watch as the young people I work with go to liberal colleges and get brainwashed into evolution with my tax dollars.

If I were to be as zealous as you, (again, no disrespect), I would demand Sundays off, file a lawsuit for discrimination at work because of all the dirty jokes and pictures and so on. But I don't. And thankfully, no one has told me to stop talking about salvation and Jesus at work.

I really believe that there are two sides to this, and I would tend to agree with your opinion of Surfzen, but I cannot disprove what he says either, and have no desire to make others wait for alternative treatment while some possibly biased committee decides if it's bad or good.

Besides, has the HP management done anything about it? I'm sure by now they are aware of the quack page and would have taken it off if their lawyers said so.

God bless you Hal, I still love your hubs.


hienergybrain profile image

hienergybrain 7 years ago

I haven't read the sited/accused hub but i would like to ask why you all are getting in such a tissy about it? just tell the writer that you think it's hogwash and be on your way because while America is a great land where you can say whatever the $^%# you want it is also a wonderful place where you only have to listen to whatever $^%# you want. You don't even have to listen to all that i just said, and i really couldn't do anything about it.


sam the man,adelaide, Australia 7 years ago

Hal, have you done a survey of how many oncologists would undergo chemo? Don't think so ! & when you see the major percentage who won't, doesn't that tell you something. Also, if your oncologist told you you've only got 6 months to live & to go home & finalize your affairs, wouldn't you try this peppers/garlic supposed cure ? Surely you not so gullible to believe that the big Pharmas would promote a "natural "cure, (which they can't patent ), & forgo the billions of dollars they would lose selling their chemo & radiotherapy drugs ? Surely you don't believe that the big Pharma don't spend many millions supporting the FDA to gain favourable listing of their new medicines ? Vioxx is a good example of an FDA approval & many other drugs with hidden side-effects. Get real, Hal..


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Alexander Mark: Thanks for your comment. "Why should we trust an industry that allows doctors to be bribed to prescribe medicine any more or less than alternative medicine promoters?" Because the former has evidence behind its claims and the latter has illusion, wishful thinking, scamming, and three card monte games.

According to the American Cancer Society's annual cancer statistics, deaths due to cancer are falling steadily in the United States, thanks mainly to better prevention, earlier detection and improved treatment; plus incidence rates are also falling. The report shows that cancer deaths among men in the US fell by 19.2 per cent from 1990 to 2005 and in women it fell by 11.4 per cent from 1991 to 2005. The 5 year relative survival rate for all cancers diagnosed from 1996 to 2004 has gone up to 66 per cent, up from 50 per cent in 1975 to 1977.

That was not due to salves, oil, herbs and peppers. It was through proper application of peer reviewed published medical science.

I can disprove what Chucky is saying, along with his twin in silliness Kelley. Simple. No evidence. Show me the evidence and I'll be a believer and turn so many people onto habaneros that the price will spike to $100 a lb. Don't show me the evidence and you have snake oil, pure and simple.

I can't speak for HubPages management but it would be a good question to ask Ryan Hupfer.

hienergybrain: Why such a tizzy? Again, simple:

If Mr. A reads a Hub about a new Chinese iPhone clone that does everything better than the Apple model and costs $25 and they don't buy the original to go for the cheap clone... when they realize they have been suckered, they're out $25.

If Mr. A reads a Hub about a new diet that works better than counting calories and allows you to eat three XL pizzas a day, and they stop their nutritionist-prescribed diet... when they realize they have been suckered, they're up a few pounds.

If Mr. A reads a Hub about curing their advanced cancer with hot peppers, and they stop their oncologist-prescribed proper treatment... when they realize they have been suckered, THEY'RE DEAD.

Do you get that? Does Kelley and Chucky get that too? If you follow their advice, you're not gonna be out a few bucks or up a few pounds. YOU'RE GONNA DIE.

sam the man,adelaide, Australia: On my other Hub about this subject, I dedicated this to Kelley and Chucky so I can dedicate it to you too!

One, two, a one, two, three, four...

Way up North where there's ice and snow

There lived a penguin and his name was Joe

He got so tired of black and white

He wore pink slacks to the dance last night!

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Giddy and foolish the whole day through

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Called myself on the telephone

Just to hear that golden tone

Asked myself out for a date

Said be ready 'bout half-past eight!

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Giddy and foolish the whole day through

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Took myself to the picture show

Sat myself on the very last row

Wrapped my arms around my waist

Got so fresh I slapped my face!

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Giddy and foolish the whole day through

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Went to read some real fun Hubs

Found out about all sorts of rubs

Salves and oils and peppers are the answer

To cure myself of my terminal cancer

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Giddy and foolish the whole day through

Boom, boom, ain't it great to be crazy?

Everybody now, SING!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

In case I have not made it already amply obvious, I want to be crystal clear to all the readers of these two Hubs on the medical quackery writers and how they should delete their Hubs: I am attacking their ideas, thoughts and opinions and not them as actual people. I'm sure that they're all nice people. I'm sure that they feed stray puppies, help little old ladies across the streets, donate to charity, smile a lot, tell funny clean jokes, have lots of nice friends, and otherwise hold up as model citizens. Blah, blah, blah. However, when they start spouting off idiocy on this website they can expect me to be on them like white on rice. This is not just any kind of idiocy where you can scam some unsuspecting reader into buying an overpriced electronic toy, or talk them into using a diet that will make them gain weight instead of losing it. The claims made on those Hubs CAN KILL PEOPLE. I can't have on my conscience that I stood idly by while information which does not have the slightest shred of actual evidence behind it was being touted as A CANCER CURE! We're not talking cancer therapy here... we're using the words CANCER CURE. That is one WHOPPER of a claim, ladies and germs. All we need as Hubbers is for HubPages to be hit with a zillion dollar lawsuit from the estate of a person who read about THE CANCER CURE and stopped radiation or chemo to eat peppers and then expired.

Therefore, alll you otherwise nice people who for some reason that I can't possibly comprehend are suffering from delusions that habanero peppers, garlic, cod liver oil, coral calcium, shark cartilage, chocolate chip cookies, raisin bran, or the first bowel movement of the morning from a castrated male Alashanzuoqi white cashmere goat CURE CANCER...

...STOP BEING IRRESPONSIBLE AND STOP SPOUTING IDIOCY!

SHEESH!


Kiwi Gold 7 years ago

Hal,

Let me ask you this: Have you ever had to deal with cancer? This would really interest me - as you seem to speak as an expert in this field. Well, I have had to deal with this disease and I can tell you without the shadow of a doubt that if it hadn't been for these so called "quacks", my family would be destroyed and ripped apart by now. If you are a serious and intelligent person then you would look into all the options out there to find a genuine reason for this disease and also a REAL cure. Most people like yourself - however, seem to be happy to simply parrot off what some so-called expert says without putting their own brains to work. I have done ten years of research - and that not for pleasure - on this topic. The so called Medical profession is by their own admission absolutely clueless about what cancer is and how to cure it - you are either stupid, totally ignorant or paid by them - in order to make such confident statements! It is people like you that are mouthing off without knowing what you are talking about who are helping to kill off millions of people each year through discouraging them from thinking for themselves and finding real cures that have been provided for us in Nature!!!! A heavy yoke to carry if you find out that you are wrong - and you will - these statistics you quote are rubbish and you can pretty much count on it that you will get cancer as well some time - in which case your "wonderful chemo drugs" will almost certainly make sure that you die! So where is that risk you are talking about...??? Wake up man and take those rosey glasses off and leave people who are actually interested in helping others alone! ...STOP BEING IRRESPONSIBLE AND STOP SPOUTING IDIOCY YOURSELF!


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Yeah, you're right. Millions of oncologists, other millions of physicians, and even more millions of medical professionals and researchers are wrong. And all those professors at med school... bunch of conspiratorial evil idiots all of them! The reversal in cancer death rates are an illusion. We only have one hope, and that's HABANEROS. Yes! HABANEROS! Just eat a few and even if you're riddled with cancer in every organ it will all magically melt away by the time you're finished watching Family Guy!

OK, let's have some fun! :)

Why don't you just open your mind and shut your mouth, both are empty anyway.

I hear you were born on April 2; a day too late!

You must be an experiment in Artificial Stupidity.

Just out of curiosity, are your parents siblings?

I'd like to leave you with one thought...unfortunately I'm not sure you have anywhere to put it!

Yeah, yeah, keep talking, someday you might say something intelligent.

This is an excellent time for you to become a missing person.

So now we know why some mammals eat their children...

... and one of my favorite ones:

You! Off my planet!

:)


kmhutter 7 years ago

Dear Mr. Licino,

I have personally lost eight people in my family to cancer, all died receiving "standard" cancer treatments. On top of that, I personally know an additional 21 people who under went or are going the "standard cancer treatment", 17 out of 21 are now dead. Three had recurrences. The remaining one is stage four and has been given five weeks to live. I do not know anyone personally who has taken alternative methods of treatment and lived, but I have read about them. The track record of the medical industry is quite poor in my opinion, of "curing" cancer. Given that idea, perhaps we should be open minded enough to consider investigating all plausible treatments, not just ones that are currently accepted. All new advances in science and medicine, at one time, were viewed as "quackery" or outrageous. If the possible isn't working, perhaps it's time to consider the impossible.


KiwiGold 7 years ago

Hi there Hal.

Can I ask you to thoroughly check out just 1 website related to the issues you are talking about...

www.winningcancer.com

Sincerely,

KiwiGold


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

kmhutter: I'm sorry for your loss but if you want to blame medical science for that and put your faith in hot peppers, you're just as much in dire need of urgent psychiatric attention as the rest of the snake oil promoters. Hey, I can believe that a mixture of hydrogenated Alaskan Malamute urine and the ground up tomalley of a Maine Lobster can cure cancer, HIV-AIDS, the common cold, and pimples on your erogenous zones. I'll believe it as soon as you SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE! What? Can't anybody READ?

E

V

I

D

E

N

C

E

!

!

!

Sheesh...

KiwiGold: What a putrid pile of puerile poop! The people who authored that website belong in a gulag. I'm starting to think you should join them. :(


2patricias profile image

2patricias 7 years ago from Sussex by the Sea

You certainly hit the right button for atracting comments!

I admit I have not read them all, but it looks a bit vitriolic in places...

What I wanted to say is a bit limp, really:

When Tricia and I started our own website, we immediately got ads for skin whitening. We were not happy having these ads on our site, and blocked them. This was like trying to kill that mythic beast that keeps growing new heads!

Now we kind of think that people who want skin whitening are going to find it, regardless of what we do.

The same goes for herbal cures for cancer, magic diet pills, beautiful brides from a post office box, hair growth cream, etc etc.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Hey, I have no prob with anyone creating their own website to promote that the way to cure hepatitis C is by eating human liver with fava beans and a fine chianti... slurrrrrppppp... If the FTC gets on their butts, at least I won't be paying the price with them. The problem I have is when irresponsible Hubbers THREATEN THIS ENTIRE WEBSITE with their ridiculous and unsubstantiated MIRACLE CURE CLAIMS. I don't want to LOSE THE WHOLE HUBPAGES SITE TO FTC ACTION because some lunatic miscreant says that eating Amazon River Mud cured his terminal cancer in 20 minutes.


just a Q. 7 years ago

D'ya know what is gulag mean? just a Q.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Yes, gulags are mean. Mean places to be in. (Google it, dude...) I would wish that on no one... except those who mislead desperate sick people into believing CRAP.


hienergybrain profile image

hienergybrain 7 years ago

Hal if Mr. A is that stupid maybe he needs to lose $25 and the price of being scammed might earn him some computor savvy and that is just what i have to say about that 1 little example, survival of the smartest


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Hey, it's no skin off my ample butt if Mr. A, B, or C loses a few bucks because he's a dodo. However, if someone loses their LIFE because of something they read on Hubpages, then it IS my problem. I have a conscience!


Flash 7 years ago

Don't know why some people get all bent out of shape when someone steps outside the boundaries of conventional wisdom (stupidity) and thinks on their own to allow their body to heal, or to fix some other life problem apart from the oversight of so called experts whose knowledge is as available to anyone with the desire and a computer as someone who spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to be brainwashed by the powers that be. Hows that for a run on sentence? As far as scientific proof goes, scientific is narrowly defined by the powers that be and means that someone has spent a ton of money on a structured procedure that can be set up to show anything the so called scientists want it to. In fact many of the scientifically proven drugs and therapies are known to injure or kill (end your life for those of you who live in Rio Linda) people and that taking these drugs is a crap shoot at best.

Before someone takes a drug, the body has never even seen the substance before, generally. Most drugs are artificial substances designed to suppress some necessary part of our bodily chemistry in order to suppress symptoms, not to effect cures.

Hot peppers and garlic and cod liver oil are natural substances that produce no side effects when not taken at absurd levels (be aware that excessive cod liver oil can cause vitamin D3/A toxicity also be aware that too much pure oxygen, or water or anything is toxic).

Facts, though anecdotal( means someone is sharing their particular experience and the results are not the result of some rigidly structured procedure designed to produce a particular set of outcomes) are as or more valid than many so called scientific "proofs".

Now I can see that if someone reads about the pepper cancer cure and overdoes it that they could hurt themselves, but then again the first rule of life is "do thyself no harm". Sharing information beneficial to you does not seem to me to be harmful, to me or anyone else.

While it is possible, even probable that someone will take this shared information and cause themselves harm it should also be noted that doctors, hospitals and the parmaceutical industyr are the number three (3) killer of americans today, right behind heart attack and cancer. I don't hear you saying we should shut these pillars of American profitability down, or are you. Also perhaps if we put suitable statements of possible harm regarding the pepper cure with these testimonials then it would be acceptable. After all the drug companies do. In fact the caveats associated with many of the drugs advertised (attention, sudden discontinuance of this drug could cause a heart attack, this drug causes severe and terminal effects in less than 1% of those taking it (several hundred thousnad people) are so lengthy that to take these drugs is a bit on the stupid side and yet no one is suggesting that advertizising these scientifically proven lethal drugs should be stopped or puts anyone at risk of a lawsuit.

The truth is life is a measured risk at best. You can die from a bullet in your head sitting at home watching TV (this really happened). Most (means more than) people taking chemo, or radiation, or surgery, die from cancer. You will find no current therapies that are 50% effective. Plus your QOL sucks while you die.

So if I get cancer and elect to treat it with habanero peppers, garlic, and cod liver oil or evening primrose oil depending, and eventually die please don't take away my right to hear about someone who used the recipe and lived.

The truth is that no one, no not one of us is gonna get out of here alive. But I would rather try something that is rumored to cure more that it kills that to submit to procedures, techniques and drugs that are proven to kill more than they cure.

Love your hub Hal.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thanks for your participation, Flash. I really appreciated the depth and insight of your comment. I just want to state it once again for the record: I love habaneros. I'm making a stuffed pork loin to put on the grill this weekend and it has so many habaneros in it that it will likely make my mouth look like a nuclear crater. But I'm not about to slap every single oncologist on the planet in the face by encouraging a cancer patient to ignore their professional and evidence-backed advice and deluding poor innocents into believing that my pork loin will cure their cancer. That's criminal.


Flash 7 years ago

Thanks for the kind words Hal. The truth is you don't have to slap every oncologist in the world. There are many, under the radar of course, but they are still there who are actually more interested in curing cancer and taking their autocratic oath seriously, than making their share of the billions plus dollars made annually to treat cancer using drugs, techniques, and procedures scientifically proven to kill most of those subjected to these cures.

As far as criminal you may be absolutely right! Only problem is that criminal does not mean immoral, unethical, or wrong. Criminal is a technical term, the standards of which are established by those who have power and/or money. Down through time, history has lauded many who were brave, stupid, or onery enough to buck the zeitgeist of the ruling system and become criminal. Most of what we understand to be truth, good, ethical, moral, and of value to human life and society was introduced/established by so called criminals of society at the time: Galileo, William Wallace, Martin Luther, Martin Luther King are a miniscule sample of those I refer to.

So, keep up the good work Hal. As I said before, I love your hub. And contrary to some currently in positions of power and high office, differences of opinion in the open forum are essential to the continued existence of the United States of America. Blessings.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

Thank you Flash, I appreciate your comments and wish you the best as well! :)


Opinion Duck 7 years ago

Hal,

This hub only addresses the problem of those people that are scammers that take advantage of the ineptness of the medical field.

The medical field is just as dangerous as these scammers are to the health of the people.

The medical community should be comparing their treatments and methods with the results of these scammers. The medical community doesn't have a great cure record themselves.

Health Insurance companies practice medicine without a license when they limit the medical treatment of their insured.

Prescription drug companies invent treatments but not cures, and even after spending 800 million dollars to get their drug approved by the FDA, they still put out dangerous and ineffective products.

Doctors and medical offices are hampered by the Health Insurance Companies and the Drug companies. Medical diagnosis is spotty and inaccurate in many cases as the doctors dispense the most advertised drugs.

Doctors still are in the dark about nutrition and natural healing. South America has numerous natural disease fighting compounds and many do make it into the drug companies.

Doctors don't as a rule communicate with their patients, they just dispense prescriptions and the idea that they know what is going on, to treat the patient.

My point is that formal medicine is not that much different from the subject of your hub.

Ted Kennedy's death is a good example of my point. He had a successful brain operation in less than a year from his death. Yet, he died because it didn't solve his disease.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 7 years ago from Toronto Author

My friend, people have to die eventually and Teddy had a great life so he certainly can't complain about checking out at his age. I have nothing against any purveyor of any therapy. All I want to see is CLINICAL PROOF. Provide that and I'll be more than happy to support cayenne suppositories to cure warts, acne, and body odor. That is the standard for medical science, and that is my standard. :)


Jerry Yoreth 6 years ago

Hal,

First off anyone reading a hub knows that one case is a testimonial and not a guaranteed cure. It may have not effected the cure or perhaps only works for a small percentage. Anyone that doesn't understand this is the type that will blindly follow a doctor for good or bad anyway.

Now the above pertains to cases where it isn't backed up with proof, but Kelley Eidem has written a book on this cure citing numerous scientific university studies into how capsicum in peppers and garlic shrinks tumours.

There is also a wealth of science on the link between ph and the spread of cancer and another huge amount of proof on how fish oil balances the ph of the body.

It also lists the success rate of Dr. Revici, a man who ran a clinic in Mexico, and his cure rate was extraordinary with NO side effects.

That's decent to great proof right there depending on your view, but you don't seem to understand the way the system is. More proof can't be gleamed because you can't patent a natural substance and make back the 20 million it will cost to put it through FDA procedures. They are deliberately made that expensive. Are you starting to see a pattern here?

Good topic to bring up because I feel people really need to get their facts right before lambasting people that are actually doing good work. Too much of this goes on and too much herd thinking nowadays and down the ages has caused so many problems. An open inquiring mind is needed for great progress and checking all your details instead of making assumptions and blindly following authority.

Don't just assume fraud and misguidance if it is outside convention. There are scam artists, there are also major problems with medical science and the medical system and many great people have to operate outside it. So get your facts right before coming to conclusions or just step back and say, 'it could be false, or it could be true'.

Do you need to be reminded that you may have made a public declaration against something that could have many people going to a therapy with a horrible success rate and reoccurance level that will in the process decimate their families finances or state funds, instead of a possible dirt cheap cure with no side effects.

Hence your argument is deeply hypocritical unless you know for a fact that it is fraud.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Jerry Yoreth, whoever you are, I can write a book on how pigs fly and it doesn't make it any more true. Kelley Eidem's claims are 100% UNSUPPORTED by any clinical evidence. I have offered over and over again to have PEER REVIEWED MEDICAL JOURNAL PUBLISHED EVIDENCE support his claims and every single time I have received ZERO.

Kelley Eidem's claims are NONSENSE and he is a QUACK until such time as there is clinical backup. Period. End of conversation.


Jerry Yoreth 6 years ago

Thanks Hal, for refusing to publish my comments that included mentioning some clinical proof.

You are the type of village idiot that will always say 'long live the king'. The type that used to burn geniuses like Gallelio at the stake for daring to challenge ridiculous convention.

If you had a brain in your head you'd realise how unsuccessful current cancer treatments are. They also put people through horrendous side effects, destroy their immune system and bankrupt families and health services ($150,000 to treat a cancer patient).

All for something with a horrible success rate, a destroyed immune system which means it is likely to come back and financial oblivion.

Conventional methods are brilliant for emergencies, otherwise the science is non-existant. Oh yea, they have their studies etc. but its a farse when you look at the overall picture. I mean rat poison thins blood but heart patients taking that everyday would be just as mad. But you could get clinical evidence on it and ignore the enormous issues.

You dont grasp how the system works which is your main problem. And Kelley Eidem's is a proposition of a method that has scientific evidence supporting it and a growing list of testimonials. It is up to people to make their own choices. We live in a world where it is about money so it is hard to trust anything in the system and outside the system means anyone can say anything. Just look at the death rate due to prescription drugs. If you think your doctor is a saint and bastion of great science then you know little. It's all a hodge podge you just have to find what YOU think are good answers and unfortunately in this world it is near impossible for a brilliant medical discovery with little financial reward for lobbies to be properly investigated.

So that is all Kelley can do and he's done a good job. You look for scientific studies, which he lists and for success stories and rates, which appear to be very good. It gives people another option.

You just dismiss it out of hand which makes you frighteningly ignorant and just a very limited sheep, which is exactly what they want you to be so they can continue to financially sodimise you.

Time to wake up pal.


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

First of all, I must have neglected to hit the publish button on your comment. I would not have answered it without giving my readers the opportunity to see what I was answering!

Now, my dear Mr. Yoreth. You are as deluded as your friend Eidem.

WHERE IS THE CLINICAL PEER REVIEWED MEDICAL JOURNAL EVIDENCE BOZO? COME ON! STOP BEING AN IDIOT AND SHOW ME THE EVIDENCE YOUR FRIEND EIDEM "SUPPOSEDLY" HAS. WHERE IS IT? STOP WASTING MY TIME AND COUGH IT UP! I'VE BEEN ASKING FOR FIVE MONTHS TO SEE IT AND I HAVE RECEIVED ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. NOTHING. NOTHING!

WHY?

BECAUSE THERE IS NO EVIDENCE. AND THAT MEANS EIDEM IS A QUACK AND YOU'RE A MORON TO LISTEN TO HIM.

Both of you haven't the slightest clue as to the basic principles of medical science. Your beliefs are critically dangerous as they endanger the lives of innocent and gullible cancer patients who read YOUR BASELESS IDIOTIC CLAPTRAP LIES and turn their backs on treatments prescribed by oncologists who have forgotten more about cancer treatments than you and Eidem will ever learn if you live to be a thousand years old. Therefore, sir, do me a favor and go crawl back in the hole you came from. And take your quack friend with you.

Enough already! Stop messing around with the lives of terminal cancer patients!

HAVE YOU NO CONSCIENCE?


Jerry Yoreth 6 years ago

Hi Hal,

I apologise for being a bit ascerbic as I thought you were deliberately not publishing my comments.

But I still find your attitude astounding and very ignorant.

It's the attitude as much as anything, which is clearly flawed. You do have a point if it wasn't made so badly and in such an extemist manner which just makes you look obnoxious and limited, whether you actually are or not.

You are going so far as to say that anything yet accepted by the mainstream media and doctors is rubbish and makes you a liar, a con-artist etc.

Here is a scientific study on garlic: http://www.gourmetgarlicgardens.com/psucolon.htm

and Pepper: http://www.whale.to/a/chilli.html

There are 1000 scientific studies done on the benefits of garlic. I don't know where to find the studies on the net though. I'm not a doctor. Kelley does list the studies in his book and maybe on his hub as well.

I'm not sure what peer reviewed means since I know that any study an average schmoe doctor will even look at has to come from certain sources, that is only funded by pharmaceuticals.

And they will only fund things that will make them millions. There is nothing for the powers that be to gain from free natural cures you can't patent and sell, you can't patent natural substances.

Doctors are often very career and money orientated as well. Another batch are so conventional and nerdy too, they will only do what they are told to do, is safe for their job security and future. Who cares about the patients and science, eh? Where's their conscience is what I ask?

There is evidence for this cure and the theory from the scientific studies was proven by Dr. Revici did in his clinic with huge success.

Now Kelley has a similar version and that appears to work as well. But I'm not sure what he can do because doctors are indoctrinated that berries and food don't cure anything. They are woefully miseducated and undereducated on nutrition, foods and herbs.

They don't want to hear it and the pharma's aren't going to launch this with big studies and sending reps to every doctor in the country and making them take time out of their day to read the research. There's no money it for them... or the doctors.

That's the reality, I've been studying health for years. My doctor told me I couldnt' get better and I was going to be in a wheelchair with MS aged 28. I did my own research and I found my own cure.

But for similar reasons I can't publish my findiings scientifically because it's just not possible due to the system and the financial implications.

All you can do is show the scientific evidence already done for each part of the theory and then list all the cures and try to get a cure rate if you can. Then people can make up their own mind on what to do. Listen to the doctor, or go your own way and use the doctor for what he is useful for and disregard his treatments (apart from big emergencies).

I can tell you I'm darn glad of all the brave people who gave me their evidence and their theories and did their best to find scienctific evidence and studies to back it up. That gave me options and I could piece it together instead of listening to my limited doctor who had me on all sorts of dangerous drugs that were making me worse and making my life hell. And I was also still heading for a wheelchair and an early death.

So yes I do have a conscience and you just don't know what you are talking about and doing far more harm than good the way you are going on. It is actually deeply hypocritical, what you are saying because you simply don't understand the facts.


Jerry Yoreth 6 years ago

Here's a very interesting testimony for Kelley's protocol as well:

http://moles.homestead.com/photosandthankyou.html


Hal Licino profile image

Hal Licino 6 years ago from Toronto Author

Wow. Are you ever an uneducated, ignorant individual.

Look this up in the dictionary as it's obvious you have problems with polysyllabic words:

IF IT IS NOT IN A MAJOR PEER REVIEWED MEDICAL JOURNAL IT DOES NOT EXIST. THAT IS THE BASIS OF MEDICAL SCIENCE AND ALL SCIENCE.

EVERYTHING ELSE... ABSOLUTELY EVERYTHING ELSE IS CRIMINAL QUACKERY!

I have no more patience for your obtuseness. Go take a science 101 course. That's the end of this conversation.

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